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Childish Views of God

xXCryptoXx
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3/14/2015 11:05:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Until atheists (not all, but many) can stop strawmanning God as some "magical bearded man in the sky who grants wishes" intellectual Christians will never be able to take them seriously.

For all Christians who view Jesus as some invisible friend, that was fine when you were in elementary school, but now it is time to view God as the infinite, complex (he's actually divinely simple, but this whole concept will seem complex), and incomprehensible being he actually is. That may mean picking up some philosophy books; trust me, they aren't going to hurt you.

That is all.
Nolite Timere
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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3/14/2015 11:17:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

This.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.
Nolite Timere
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response. If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God. Comprehending infinity has nothing to do with your claims.

So, the question still stands.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

"Comprehending infinity has nothing to do with your claims.

So, the question still stands.
Nolite Timere
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/14/2015 11:44:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:05:15 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Until atheists (not all, but many) can stop strawmanning God as some "magical bearded man in the sky who grants wishes" intellectual Christians will never be able to take them seriously.

For all Christians who view Jesus as some invisible friend, that was fine when you were in elementary school, but now it is time to view God as the infinite, complex (he's actually divinely simple, but this whole concept will seem complex), and incomprehensible being he actually is. That may mean picking up some philosophy books; trust me, they aren't going to hurt you.

That is all.

Jesus take the WHEEEEEEEL.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

"Comprehending infinity has nothing to do with your claims.

So, the question still stands.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/14/2015 11:54:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You cannot "know" that a being has any particular traits without having first concluded that the being exists. I am asking you if you cannot comprehend the being itself how did you determine that it exists?
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

This may sound confusing/contradictory, but it all relies on the distinction between knowing and understanding.

"Comprehending infinity has nothing to do with your claims.

So, the question still stands.
Nolite Timere
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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3/14/2015 12:06:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

It is hard to believe in something for which there is no proof of its existence.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/14/2015 12:14:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:54:16 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You cannot "know" that a being has any particular traits without having first concluded that the being exists. I am asking you if you cannot comprehend the being itself how did you determine that it exists?

You can determine its existence in relation to the physical world I suppose. I'm not sure how great of an answer that is honestly though. By that alone you can determine that God is pure actuality, which would then imply traits such as divine simplicity, omniscience, and omnipotence. You could also conclude omnibenevolence by taking the thomistic approach.
Nolite Timere
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/14/2015 12:16:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?

You don't need to be able to comprehend him to know certain things about him.
Nolite Timere
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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3/14/2015 12:28:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:16:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?

You don't need to be able to comprehend him to know certain things about him.

Ah, I can see you're just going to keep going around in circles refusing to understand the question.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bluejayyy22
Posts: 1
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3/14/2015 12:36:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:28:05 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:16:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?

You don't need to be able to comprehend him to know certain things about him.

Ah, I can see you're just going to keep going around in circles refusing to understand the question.

Can you prove God does not exist? If no, there is a possibility, I assume.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/14/2015 12:37:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:28:05 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:16:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?

You don't need to be able to comprehend him to know certain things about him.

Ah, I can see you're just going to keep going around in circles refusing to understand the question.

Okay.
Nolite Timere
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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3/14/2015 12:40:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:16:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?

You don't need to be able to comprehend him to know certain things about him.

I'm on your side and all but this literally makes no sense.

What you should say is that we can only partially comprehend God. Like how e are basically grasping to comprehend quantum mechanics but we have some understanding of it (not matter how little it may be)>
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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3/14/2015 12:41:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have a very clear understanding of the assorted Gods/gods.

If we take a look at the bottom line when science and religion compare notes we would find that God/god is simply Life it's self.

Life it's self can be seen, touched and experienced.

Problem with most humans is that they would rather CHOOSE with their OWN free will CHOICES, to follow the Ways of deceptions and lies called good.

The superstitious realm can have people believing that the earth is flat, more cup holders in a vehicle is better and other such concepts.

I AM that I AM works for me as I greatly enjoy being a all powerful and knowing god in my little clay pot of thoughts.

Being most overly wonderful and then some sure works well for me.

If it doesn't for you then you must be listening to the anger monkeys on your backs or missing something it seems.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/14/2015 12:52:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:16:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?

You don't need to be able to comprehend him to know certain things about him.

You've missed the entire point.

If you cannot comprehend something then there is no coherent concept to have a belief about. Do you believe in an incomprehensible chair? Or an incomprehensible triangle? Substituting "being" in for "chair" or "triangle" doesn't change anything. The concept is still incoherent, yet you believe in it. I am asking how that can possibly work.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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3/14/2015 1:04:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:05:15 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Until atheists (not all, but many) can stop strawmanning God as some "magical bearded man in the sky who grants wishes" intellectual Christians will never be able to take them seriously.

For all Christians who view Jesus as some invisible friend, that was fine when you were in elementary school, but now it is time to view God as the infinite, complex (he's actually divinely simple, but this whole concept will seem complex), and incomprehensible being he actually is. That may mean picking up some philosophy books; trust me, they aren't going to hurt you.

That is all.

The only person who fits your description is bornofgod. He has been answering every question about God in the affirmative "I AM". And you are right God is not bearded. Bornofgod has posted a video and he appears beardless. Christians don't believe him because he is an American. But then again that is racism for you.
xXCryptoXx
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3/14/2015 1:17:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:40:05 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:16:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?

You don't need to be able to comprehend him to know certain things about him.

I'm on your side and all but this literally makes no sense.

What you should say is that we can only partially comprehend God. Like how e are basically grasping to comprehend quantum mechanics but we have some understanding of it (not matter how little it may be)>

Yeah that sounds better.
Nolite Timere
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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3/14/2015 1:41:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 12:36:02 PM, bluejayyy22 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:28:05 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:16:21 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:03:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 12:00:31 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:50:29 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

Again, understanding infinity has NOTHING to do with knowing God, they are two completely different things.

I know, that's what I just said lol.

How do know God is infinite if you can't comprehend God?

You can know what something is without actually understanding it.

Take the concept of infinity.

Here is a definition: Unbounded space, time, or quantity.

We can't actually imagine or physically sense such a notion. It is outside the human realm of understanding even though we know what it is.

The same applies to God. We can know certain attributes of God, such as omnipotence for example, yet not fully understand what being all powerful means, even if we know what omnipotence is.

You're not getting it, you're just repeating the same fallacy over and over.

How can you know certain attributes of God if you can't comprehend God? Can you understand this very simple question?

You don't need to be able to comprehend him to know certain things about him.

Ah, I can see you're just going to keep going around in circles refusing to understand the question.

Can you prove God does not exist?

Allow me to be perfectly honest with you. No, I cannot prove God does not exist.

Now, will you be perfectly honest with me and answer me this question?

Can you prove God exists?

If no, there is a possibility, I assume.

Yes, there is a possibility, in every respect of anything else being a possibility, like the existence of fairies and ghosts, for example.

There is also a probability for God to exist, as well.

However, the possibility coupled with the probability of God existing is negligible.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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3/14/2015 2:04:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you want proof that a God/god exists,

Here I AM

any questions?

ask and you will receive.

might not tickle your ears and excite your eyes.

but it will sure have you trying to hide behind your fig leaves and BIG head degrees.

Superstition is the wide pathway to programed enslavement of the mind and body.

They, that run things for you can enslave your body, but they can only enslave your mind and thoughts if you allow it with your very own personal free will choices.

A human can choose to believe in santa god and scienceterrific theories with the real cheeze logo on them,

or they can choose to GROW UP and leave the ways of make believe and pretend realities behind them.

Growing up in a world filled with angry over grown toddlers running things can make growing up a narrow path, but it's worth the effort and suffering getting there in the long run.

Not many are interested in LIVING IN the NOW, as most prefer trying the possible escape of trying to live in the past or the future.

The proof of that fills our landfills and pollutes the water and air.

That causes cancers and other problems.

Seems that most are looking for reason and justification so that they can try and reject and ignore the problems of today.

The maths add up and show a CLEAR total if you don't fudge the maths.

Most like their fudge with colorful sugar sprinkles on it.

praise the Lord and fire up the rockets.

.

Heaven and Hell are not places, but states and conditions of mind and thought.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/14/2015 3:29:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:05:15 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Until atheists (not all, but many) can stop strawmanning God as some "magical bearded man in the sky who grants wishes" intellectual Christians will never be able to take them seriously.

For all Christians who view Jesus as some invisible friend, that was fine when you were in elementary school, but now it is time to view God as the infinite, complex (he's actually divinely simple, but this whole concept will seem complex), and incomprehensible being he actually is. That may mean picking up some philosophy books; trust me, they aren't going to hurt you.

That is all.

It's much simpler to get to know our Father in Heaven if you listen to His Voice and obey ALL His commandments.

Deuteronomy 28
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.

16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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3/14/2015 3:37:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:05:15 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Until atheists (not all, but many) can stop strawmanning God as some "magical bearded man in the sky who grants wishes" intellectual Christians will never be able to take them seriously.

For all Christians who view Jesus as some invisible friend, that was fine when you were in elementary school, but now it is time to view God as the infinite, complex (he's actually divinely simple, but this whole concept will seem complex), and incomprehensible being he actually is. That may mean picking up some philosophy books; trust me, they aren't going to hurt you.

That is all.

So if you can't comprehend God, then why do you form conclusions about Him?
You can call me Mark if you like.
q3qerf34rf
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3/15/2015 7:28:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:05:15 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Until atheists (not all, but many) can stop strawmanning God as some "magical bearded man in the sky who grants wishes" intellectual Christians will never be able to take them seriously.

For all Christians who view Jesus as some invisible friend, that was fine when you were in elementary school, but now it is time to view God as the infinite, complex (he's actually divinely simple, but this whole concept will seem complex), and incomprehensible being he actually is. That may mean picking up some philosophy books; trust me, they aren't going to hurt you.

That is all.

Oh boy an intellectual creationist. You implement a creator who has the ability to do the supernatural, and when mocked, you reply with a spiritual debarcle as proof of intellectual superiority. If you want to be respected, I suggest approaching it a very different way.

Your personal perception of an asserted creator is not intellectual, nor is it a clarification of existence. You're current statement has no more bearing than if I was to claim to read the mind of a potato.

The depth of thought behind the falsified creator, in general goes far beyond what your implying for most atheists. You simply don't understand it. If you did we wouldn't be in this situation. So lets talk extreme basics.

---The acclaimed objective proof of "god" comes from a book written by humans who, if put into a modern society would have less knowledge than the average mentally challenged middle school child in relation to how things work.
Beyond that, if a creator was to prove his existence, it could be done by proving knowledge which was beyond what was known at the time....Which surprise surprise, scriptures fail to do. A creators scriptures show nothing in relation or any greater understand of what is being proved?????????

---Anything which has been deciphered in relation to acclaimed creation, is objectively falsified. It's widely agreed by philosophers, that the bibles reference to a timeline per-say, implies the age of the earth to be approx 6000 years old...But hey, as a theist you'll either keep peddling that objectively false idea, or you'll dismiss it as incorrectly deciphered. No worries.

Biblical text has flaws yet they're dismissed on the basis a higher power can not be dis-proven. In relation to ANY other topic, an argument which such flaws would be entirely dismissed.

You don't find it somewhat counter-intuitive that a greater understanding of how things work has a near direct relation to the lack of belief in man-made religion?
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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3/15/2015 9:09:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:05:15 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Until atheists (not all, but many) can stop strawmanning God as some "magical bearded man in the sky who grants wishes" intellectual Christians will never be able to take them seriously.

For all Christians who view Jesus as some invisible friend, that was fine when you were in elementary school, but now it is time to view God as the infinite, complex (he's actually divinely simple, but this whole concept will seem complex), and incomprehensible being he actually is. That may mean picking up some philosophy books; trust me, they aren't going to hurt you.

That is all.

Excellent thread.

Yes, for becalmed grown-ups, God is a mystery. "God" is the term we use to refer to the mystery within which lies the source, sustenance, and purpose of all that exists, including ourselves. It's a fundamental mystery. And on the one hand, we fear this mystery because we can't anticipate or control what we can't understand. Yet at the same time, we can't live our lives cowered in fear of it, either. So we have to learn to trust in this mystery: to trust that it will not suddenly turn against us in some way that we can neither escape nor abide. We call this necessity for trust, 'having faith in God'. Well, most of us call it that.

This is something that grown-up know about "God". But even as grown-ups, we can still become frightened, and lonely, and wracked with guilt, or profoundly confused, and so need to return to our more childish conceptions of God; as our guardian, or as our friend, or as the arbiter of our fate. And this is only natural. Because it's a habit born of need, and returned to as long as it works for us.

So I try not to disparage my fellow adults too much, when I see them holding on to those more childish and unreasonable concepts and images of God. I try to just assume they still need them, for some reason, to deal with the pressures of life. As we all might, on occasion.

When it becomes problematic, of course, is when adults refuse to let go of those childish and needy god-concepts because they do not want to face the great mystery of existence, forthrightly. Instead, they want to pretend there is no mystery, that their imaginary "God" is the answer, instead of the question. Then they begin to deliberately retard their own intellect with willful pretense that they wrongly call "faith".

This, too, is in the nature of the human condition. I believe that it is, however, an aspect of our nature that we should seek to avoid.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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3/15/2015 3:45:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:41:04 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:38:43 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:33:56 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:14:30 AM, Double_R wrote:
How can you believe in something you can't comprehend?

You can know its traits but not truly be able to comprehend what exactly the application of those traits entails. For example, we can know God is infinite, yet we cannot truly comprehend what infinity is. I had a feeling I would need to clarify this.

You didn't clarify anything, you just made it more confusing and used a circular argument coupled with the argument from incredulity as a response.

" If you "know" God is infinite, then you are saying you comprehend God.

Let's make a distinction between knowing and understanding. We can know God is infinite, but we can't understand infinity.

The please explain how, if one cannot understand infinity, one could possibly know that infinity is attributable to god (or anything else). Infinity IS understood, because it is a defined, understood concept. That is what language is... each word is a representation of the concept it embodies. without a definition, there would be nothing to represent something conceptualized. One cannot attribute ANYTHING to an entity, without understanding the concept one is attributing to an entity. Your statement is tantamount to stating that one can call a woman beautiful, without understanding what "beautiful" is. While "beautiful" might have different parameters (subjective), it is the concept of "beauty" that is bestowed upon the woman in question. In effect, your assertion is claiming knowledge of something unknowable, when the knowledge is implicit in its attribution to an entity. Your very statement is self-refuting... Whether the concept being bestowed upon an entity by any assertion is subjective or objective, understanding of said concept is still implicit in the use of the concept.

I believe you were suggesting that people 'pick up some books on philosophy...'
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
NoMagic
Posts: 507
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3/15/2015 3:52:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:05:15 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Until atheists (not all, but many) can stop strawmanning God as some "magical bearded man in the sky who grants wishes" intellectual Christians will never be able to take them seriously.

For all Christians who view Jesus as some invisible friend, that was fine when you were in elementary school, but now it is time to view God as the infinite, complex (he's actually divinely simple, but this whole concept will seem complex), and incomprehensible being he actually is. That may mean picking up some philosophy books; trust me, they aren't going to hurt you.

That is all.

Until Christian can explain how a being that has no physical brain can think, then they shouldn't be taken seriously.

If he's incomprehensible then stop talking about the thing you cannot comprehend. If he's incomprehensible then stop talking about what he wishes us to do. If he's incomprehensible then we might as well stop thinking about him/it in entirety.