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how will we be judged after death?!

Artur
Posts: 723
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3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Gentorev
Posts: 2,933
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3/20/2015 1:13:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

How will you be judged after death?

You will be judged according to the way you have treated your fellow man, and if you have lived according to the rules that you have imposed on the society in which you live.

Do you demand that no one steals from you? Have you ever stolen from others?

Do you demand that no one sleeps with your partner? Have you ever slept with someone elses partner, or with another, other that your married partner, etc, etc, etc?

If you have never broken the very laws that you have imposed on others, you are one of the very few who can call themselves "A Righteous Person," among who, I for one, cannot be counted.
Artur
Posts: 723
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3/20/2015 3:11:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 1:02:16 AM, dee-em wrote:
Why would Allah have to question you? And what stops you from lying?
I do not know why Allah would have to question me, it is not me who says Allah will judge me, it is Islam or Islamic theology/theologians who says it.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
Posts: 723
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3/20/2015 3:15:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 1:13:22 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

How will you be judged after death?

You will be judged according to the way you have treated your fellow man, and if you have lived according to the rules that you have imposed on the society in which you live.

Do you demand that no one steals from you? Have you ever stolen from others?

Do you demand that no one sleeps with your partner? Have you ever slept with someone elses partner, or with another, other that your married partner, etc, etc, etc?

If you have never broken the very laws that you have imposed on others, you are one of the very few who can call themselves "A Righteous Person," among who, I for one, cannot be counted.
Is this what you think or what Islam/christianity says?
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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3/20/2015 4:06:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 3:11:10 AM, Artur wrote:
At 3/20/2015 1:02:16 AM, dee-em wrote:
Why would Allah have to question you? And what stops you from lying?
I do not know why Allah would have to question me, it is not me who says Allah will judge me, it is Islam or Islamic theology/theologians who says it.

You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone? Isn't he supposed to know everything already?

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,933
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3/20/2015 6:17:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 3:15:56 AM, Artur wrote:
At 3/20/2015 1:13:22 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

How will you be judged after death?

You will be judged according to the way you have treated your fellow man, and if you have lived according to the rules that you have imposed on the society in which you live.

Do you demand that no one steals from you? Have you ever stolen from others?

Do you demand that no one sleeps with your partner? Have you ever slept with someone elses partner, or with another, other that your married partner, etc, etc, etc?

If you have never broken the very laws that you have imposed on others, you are one of the very few who can call themselves "A Righteous Person," among who, I for one, cannot be counted.

Is this what you think or what Islam/christianity says?

Love God, and love your neighbour as yourself. Obey these two commandment and you obey them all. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and you cannot go wrong. for you cannot say I hate my neighbour, but I love God who is all that exists, even your neighbours.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/20/2015 7:25:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

Well, I can only give you the scriptural answer.

There has in fact been more than one judgement, and will still be two to come.

Those who proved unfaithful at the flood will have been judged then and condemned to everlasting destruction.

The same can be said of those who refused to listen to Christ, and possible also the Apostles after him.

For the next 1800 years there was no judgement of any. Those who died simply, as Christ and the Apostles put it, "fell asleep in death" awaiting resurrection, teaching of God's ways, and their judgement at the final test.

We are now in another period of judgement.

People are being judged by their reaction to the preaching of the Good News by God's people, Jehovah's Witnesses, gathered to his son's side for the express purpose of spreading that Good News.

At what point in time that judgement will become permanent for them at their death no-one but Christ knows, but the closer to Armageddon we get the more likely it is that any who die not having listened will not get a resurrection, and it is absolutely certain that such will be the case for the vast majority of those who die at Armageddon.

After Armageddon will come the resurrection of the dead, or at least those who have not already been judged to be beyond teaching. The dead will be brought back into Adam-like bodies, free from inherited sin, and with all the prospects of eternal life and eternal health that Adam and Eve threw away.

All will be taught God's ways and given plenty of opportunity to practice them before Satan is once again let loose to test both the resurrected ones and the Armageddon survivors one last time.

Those who fail will be sent into destruction to join those already destroyed, as well as death, as we know it, and the grave (Hell, Hades, Sheol).

Those who survive that final test will gain all the benefits that Adam and Eve threw away, and enjoy direct attention from Jehovah himself once again.

The last three chapters of Revelation describe that joyful time.
It is up to each one of us whether we are there or not.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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3/20/2015 7:40:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 7:25:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

Well, I can only give you the scriptural answer.

There has in fact been more than one judgement, and will still be two to come.

Those who proved unfaithful at the flood will have been judged then and condemned to everlasting destruction.

The same can be said of those who refused to listen to Christ, and possible also the Apostles after him.

For the next 1800 years there was no judgement of any. Those who died simply, as Christ and the Apostles put it, "fell asleep in death" awaiting resurrection, teaching of God's ways, and their judgement at the final test.

We are now in another period of judgement.

People are being judged by their reaction to the preaching of the Good News by God's people, Jehovah's Witnesses, gathered to his son's side for the express purpose of spreading that Good News.

At what point in time that judgement will become permanent for them at their death no-one but Christ knows, but the closer to Armageddon we get the ... "

Congratulations! You made it six line before you started babbling about Jehovah's Witnesses, and seven before you cranked up on Armageddon. Now if someone lights into you, you'll bitch and whine and weep and wail that the thread has been derailed!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Artur
Posts: 723
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3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?
How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.
Isn't he supposed to know everything already?
According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?
Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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3/20/2015 8:01:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Our only judges will be those who remember us after we are gone. We will be judged by our friends, family, acquaintances, and even our enemies. None of it will matter to us for we will exist no longer except in those memories.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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3/20/2015 8:04:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM, Artur wrote:

You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?

How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.

If your mind is already made up, that's not judging. It is simply sentencing.

Isn't he supposed to know everything already?

According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?

Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?

Okay. I die and am brought before Allah. He accuses me of being an atheist. I lie as convincingly as I can that I became a believer in the split-second before I died (when I realized that death was inevitable). Apart from my atheism, I lived a reasonably spotless life. What next? Does Allah call me a liar? I would protest that it was the truth. Is Allah going to send me to Hell anyway? If so, then he sentenced me, not on a confession, but by using his omniscience. However, that same omniscience would have shown the futility of questioning me in the first place. Do you see the problem?
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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3/20/2015 8:21:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

Do you realize that 155,000 people die each day? That's about 2 per second (and growing as the world population increases). How does God/Allah find the time to question and judge everyone within 0.5 seconds? (And the preceding is just an average. Imagine what happens in a major battle in a war. They must be arriving at the rate of dozens per second).

No wonder he never acts to save anyone from natural disasters. He's trying to reduce his workload in the long run. Lol.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/20/2015 8:26:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

All the diseases, wars, decay, destruction and death of the flesh are the only judgments that are needed during this first age. In the next age, God will never judge His people or beasts to death again.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/20/2015 8:59:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM, Artur wrote:
You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?
How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.
Isn't he supposed to know everything already?
According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?
Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?

One thing is for sure Allah, or Satan as he should rightly be known, knows only too well that he has lost now and is slated for eventual destruction.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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3/20/2015 9:01:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 8:59:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM, Artur wrote:
You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?
How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.
Isn't he supposed to know everything already?
According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?
Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?

One thing is for sure Allah, or Satan as he should rightly be known, knows only too well that he has lost now and is slated for eventual destruction.

Your version of the deity is the devil!
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,130
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3/20/2015 9:58:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 1:13:22 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

How will you be judged after death?

You will be judged according to the way you have treated your fellow man, and if you have lived according to the rules that you have imposed on the society in which you live.

No that is not how the Biblical Laws go. How does wearing a garment made of two different materials , women refusing to cover their heads, or women as religious teachers harm your fellow man?

Do you demand that no one steals from you? Have you ever stolen from others?

How could I demand that of the thief who comes in my absence?

Do you demand that no one sleeps with your partner? Have you ever slept with someone elses partner, or with another, other that your married partner, etc, etc, etc?

Do I have ownership of my wife. or does she have ownership of me? I do not demand my wife be faithful. She chooses to do so, just as I choose to do the same. Her fidelity is optional, but the consequences are not (and vice versa). I would not have it any other way. BTW, I cannot demand a third party honor our promise to each other. It is a contract between her and I.

If you have never broken the very laws that you have imposed on others, you are one of the very few who can call themselves "A Righteous Person," among who, I for one, cannot be counted.

Basically, there can be no judgment without laws that disallow innocent men. If there are innocent men, then more laws are needed, and from my point of view that is the way it has been designed . According to the laws of the Bible and the concept of original sin, it is impossible for a man to be good, and therefore "God" (or the authors of the Bible) has created a world in which we need him by his (their) own doing. It's rather convenient.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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3/20/2015 10:04:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 9:58:46 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/20/2015 1:13:22 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

How will you be judged after death?

You will be judged according to the way you have treated your fellow man, and if you have lived according to the rules that you have imposed on the society in which you live.

No that is not how the Biblical Laws go. How does wearing a garment made of two different materials , women refusing to cover their heads, or women as religious teachers harm your fellow man?

Do you demand that no one steals from you? Have you ever stolen from others?

How could I demand that of the thief who comes in my absence?

Do you demand that no one sleeps with your partner? Have you ever slept with someone elses partner, or with another, other that your married partner, etc, etc, etc?

Do I have ownership of my wife. or does she have ownership of me? I do not demand my wife be faithful. She chooses to do so, just as I choose to do the same. Her fidelity is optional, but the consequences are not (and vice versa). I would not have it any other way. BTW, I cannot demand a third party honor our promise to each other. It is a contract between her and I.

If you have never broken the very laws that you have imposed on others, you are one of the very few who can call themselves "A Righteous Person," among who, I for one, cannot be counted.

Basically, there can be no judgment without laws that disallow innocent men. If there are innocent men, then more laws are needed, and from my point of view that is the way it has been designed . According to the laws of the Bible and the concept of original sin, it is impossible for a man to be good, and therefore "God" (or the authors of the Bible) has created a world in which we need him by his (their) own doing. It's rather convenient.

Sin is a disease created specifically so we would have to buy the cure with our total submission to its creators. It's a construct used to control people and has no real meaning outside of religion.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,130
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3/20/2015 10:06:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 10:04:22 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 3/20/2015 9:58:46 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/20/2015 1:13:22 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

How will you be judged after death?

You will be judged according to the way you have treated your fellow man, and if you have lived according to the rules that you have imposed on the society in which you live.

No that is not how the Biblical Laws go. How does wearing a garment made of two different materials , women refusing to cover their heads, or women as religious teachers harm your fellow man?

Do you demand that no one steals from you? Have you ever stolen from others?

How could I demand that of the thief who comes in my absence?

Do you demand that no one sleeps with your partner? Have you ever slept with someone elses partner, or with another, other that your married partner, etc, etc, etc?

Do I have ownership of my wife. or does she have ownership of me? I do not demand my wife be faithful. She chooses to do so, just as I choose to do the same. Her fidelity is optional, but the consequences are not (and vice versa). I would not have it any other way. BTW, I cannot demand a third party honor our promise to each other. It is a contract between her and I.

If you have never broken the very laws that you have imposed on others, you are one of the very few who can call themselves "A Righteous Person," among who, I for one, cannot be counted.

Basically, there can be no judgment without laws that disallow innocent men. If there are innocent men, then more laws are needed, and from my point of view that is the way it has been designed . According to the laws of the Bible and the concept of original sin, it is impossible for a man to be good, and therefore "God" (or the authors of the Bible) has created a world in which we need him by his (their) own doing. It's rather convenient.

Sin is a disease created specifically so we would have to buy the cure with our total submission to its creators. It's a construct used to control people and has no real meaning outside of religion.

Well said.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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3/20/2015 10:30:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 9:01:43 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/20/2015 8:59:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM, Artur wrote:
You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?
How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.
Isn't he supposed to know everything already?
According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?
Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?

One thing is for sure Allah, or Satan as he should rightly be known, knows only too well that he has lost now and is slated for eventual destruction.


Your version of the deity is the devil!

the word "Allah" is means only "God" in Arabic its not Islamic thing, if you open the Arabic Bible you would find the word for God is "Allah" there not "God". lol mocking his own God what a moron!!
Never fart near dog
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/20/2015 10:44:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 10:30:20 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/20/2015 9:01:43 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/20/2015 8:59:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM, Artur wrote:
You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?
How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.
Isn't he supposed to know everything already?
According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?
Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?

One thing is for sure Allah, or Satan as he should rightly be known, knows only too well that he has lost now and is slated for eventual destruction.


Your version of the deity is the devil!

the word "Allah" is means only "God" in Arabic its not Islamic thing, if you open the Arabic Bible you would find the word for God is "Allah" there not "God". lol mocking his own God what a moron!!

Ah but you forget that ins scripture Satan is also a god, the "god of this system of things in act, and Allah, the god worshipped by Islam, is just one of his many false paths. Though this one is run from Isaac's half brother down to today.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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3/20/2015 11:28:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 10:44:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/20/2015 10:30:20 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/20/2015 9:01:43 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/20/2015 8:59:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM, Artur wrote:
You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?
How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.
Isn't he supposed to know everything already?
According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?
Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?

One thing is for sure Allah, or Satan as he should rightly be known, knows only too well that he has lost now and is slated for eventual destruction.


Your version of the deity is the devil!

the word "Allah" is means only "God" in Arabic its not Islamic thing, if you open the Arabic Bible you would find the word for God is "Allah" there not "God". lol mocking his own God what a moron!!

Ah but you forget that ins scripture Satan is also a god, the "god of this system of things in act, and Allah, the god worshipped by Islam, is just one of his many false paths. Though this one is run from Isaac's half brother down to today.

i see your ridiculous replay its not worth answering and surprised how absurd things you read can change your psychology. simple things simple minds. im sure in your childhood they made you to hate others and stick to your own farts.
Never fart near dog
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/20/2015 12:52:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 11:28:06 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/20/2015 10:44:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/20/2015 10:30:20 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/20/2015 9:01:43 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/20/2015 8:59:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM, Artur wrote:
You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?
How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.
Isn't he supposed to know everything already?
According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?
Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?

One thing is for sure Allah, or Satan as he should rightly be known, knows only too well that he has lost now and is slated for eventual destruction.


Your version of the deity is the devil!

the word "Allah" is means only "God" in Arabic its not Islamic thing, if you open the Arabic Bible you would find the word for God is "Allah" there not "God". lol mocking his own God what a moron!!

Ah but you forget that ins scripture Satan is also a god, the "god of this system of things in act, and Allah, the god worshipped by Islam, is just one of his many false paths. Though this one is run from Isaac's half brother down to today.

i see your ridiculous replay its not worth answering and surprised how absurd things you read can change your psychology. simple things simple minds. im sure in your childhood they made you to hate others and stick to your own farts.

You are welcome to your opinion, on all of it, lol.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,280
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3/20/2015 1:10:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

Essentially, you will end up judging yourself. If you cannot stand in the presence of God's burning love you will flee to hell.
Viridiel
Posts: 1
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3/20/2015 1:17:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, there is another Christianic view upon judgement.
The Seventh-Day Adventist way.

When you die, you aren't exactly dead. You're just asleep waiting for Jesus his return. When Jesus returns everyone will wake up to see his return. The ones who didn't believe in God, will flee because they are scared for his judgement. Although he, who done good come with him to Heaven and the others will cease to exist.
Artur
Posts: 723
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3/20/2015 6:13:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 1:10:19 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

Essentially, you will end up judging yourself. If you cannot stand in the presence of God's burning love you will flee to hell.
who says it?! you?!
if so, who are you?! god?! if no, who said it?!
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
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3/20/2015 6:16:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 8:21:02 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

Do you realize that 155,000 people die each day? That's about 2 per second (and growing as the world population increases). How does God/Allah find the time to question and judge everyone within 0.5 seconds? (And the preceding is just an average. Imagine what happens in a major battle in a war. They must be arriving at the rate of dozens per second).

No wonder he never acts to save anyone from natural disasters. He's trying to reduce his workload in the long run. Lol.
to be honest, bad troll.

let us assume God exists, if we assume god exists and is omniscient and omnipotent, I do not think there is point in expecting God to question somebody in 0.5 second or in a particular time. somebody who is omnipotent can stop time, can work outside of time.

but I these are logic based on assumption "God exists as he is cracked up to be by religion followers." I wanna get religious answer, not assumptions.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
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3/20/2015 6:20:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 8:04:42 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/20/2015 7:43:47 AM, Artur wrote:

You created the mock dialogue. Why do you think Allah would need to question anyone?

How do you want me to answer this? My perspective or Islam's? Mine: I do not think if god existed/exists he would/will question?
Islamic view (as I know I will answer): he knows everything yet asks, judges in order not to be unfair. If he wished he could have directly sent to hell but he wants me to understand that I deserved punishment. He proves it to me.

If your mind is already made up, that's not judging. It is simply sentencing.
maybe.

Isn't he supposed to know everything already?

According to Islam, yes, he is supposed to know everything.

If Allah is not omniscient, what would prevent a good liar from saving themselves by pretending to be a believer?

Hmmm, I do not know. What about asking it to a good liar?

Okay. I die and am brought before Allah. He accuses me of being an atheist. I lie as convincingly as I can that I became a believer in the split-second before I died (when I realized that death was inevitable). Apart from my atheism, I lived a reasonably spotless life. What next? Does Allah call me a liar? I would protest that it was the truth. Is Allah going to send me to Hell anyway? If so, then he sentenced me, not on a confession, but by using his omniscience. However, that same omniscience would have shown the futility of questioning me in the first place. Do you see the problem?

I see the problem, I am not trying to refute you or disprove you. dont expect me to answer your case, we are in the same case. if religion followers answer this discrepancies I would be glad.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/20/2015 6:20:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/20/2015 6:13:12 PM, Artur wrote:
At 3/20/2015 1:10:19 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 3/20/2015 12:43:21 AM, Artur wrote:
since I am familiar with Islam and christianity only, I am going to talk/ask based on their doctrine. I do not understand how God will judge us, I think you (followers of that religion) can help. now I am going to write a dialogue based Islamic point of view, christians can understand it as their religion. instead of ALlah assume Jahveh/trinity/jesus, quran-bible,, MOhammad ibn ABdullah-Paul of Tarsus
Imagine I have died and I am infront of Allah (assume islam is right).

A: you died as an agnostic?!
me: yes sir.
A: so, you did not believe in me?! me: yes sir
A: why did you deny me?!
me: there was no reason to accept you. why should and must I have believed in you?!
A: I created you (humanity, all people), I created you in order to pray for me, to become my slave. you had debt to me
me: how could I have known that I (humanity) indeed was created by you. as you know sir, there was no evidence which demonstrated that you existed and created me
(I do not know what kind of answer would be given by god but I will wrtie as I guess)

A: I have sent quran, the prophet
me: how could I have known that they indeed were sent by you(God)?!
A: I have informed you through my book/revelation (quran)
me: how could I have known that Quran was your book and not the fiction of Mohammad ibn Abdullah?!
A: because Mohammad testified to this
me: how could I have known that he was not lying?!
A: Quran confirmed him
me: sir, how could I have known quran was your book?! Mohammad confirmed it, how could I have known that he was not lying?! Quran confirmed him?! every person could have written such book which confirms that he/she is the prophet of God and then could have claimed to be prophet. Paul of Tarsus did it too, how was to clrify Mo was and Paul was not?!

it would go on like this I guess, if I am wrong correct me, explain me.

Essentially, you will end up judging yourself. If you cannot stand in the presence of God's burning love you will flee to hell.
who says it?! you?!
if so, who are you?! god?! if no, who said it?!

Whilst it is not actually stated in scripture as such, it is actually true.

We are judged because of our obedience or lack of it.

Therefore if we are faithful we secure a faithful judgement for ourselves.

If we are unfaithful we literally judge ourselves by our actions.

The nearest we actually get to that ins scripture is:

Romans 2:14-15
YLT(i) 14 For, when nations that have not a law, by nature may do the things of the law, these not having a law"to themselves are a law; 15 who do shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also witnessing with them, and between one another the thoughts accusing or else defending,

Which basically says just that.
Artur
Posts: 723
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3/20/2015 6:28:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Whilst it is not actually stated in scripture as such, it is actually true.

man, do you understand english?! if so, I am not asking what you think, what you deduce, what you assume. I am asking what your religion (book) says. there is no point in wasting a time for the rest of your post since they are offtopic, but anyway I am going to do it.

We are judged because of our obedience or lack of it.
why do I need to obey your God?!
Therefore if we are faithful we secure a faithful judgement for ourselves.
why do I need to be faithfull to your god?!
If we are unfaithful we literally judge ourselves by our actions.
the point is not what we judge, how we judge.

the point is how god judges. for an ignorant and low IQ, psychopath God of the bible, no matter how good works you did he will burn you as long as you did not lie yourself by saying "no, that is not psychopath, that is good one." you have to believe in such absurdity.

If Hitler believed in God he would be sent to heaven, on the contrary Jose MUhiku, a president of Uruguay who helps poors much and who is atheist, will be sent to hell. what a great god!

"For, when nations that have not a law, by nature may do the things of the law, these not having a law"to themselves are a law; 15 who do shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also witnessing with them, and between one another the thoughts accusing or else defending,

Which basically says just that."

if this was true, I very doubt the bible would have been written or the laws would have been given. that is in the heart of all people, why to waste papers and inks for such a book?!
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer