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Is blasphemy ethically defensible?

RuvDraba
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3/22/2015 8:34:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Blasphemy: n. The action or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk:
-- Oxford English Dictionary

blasphemy (n.) early 13c., from Old French blasfemie "blasphemy," from Late Latin blasphemia, from Greek blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of."
-- http://www.etymonline.com...+

Throughout pre-modern times, blasphemy was frequently punishable by death. However in modern times, most developed countries have either repealed their blasphemy laws (e.g. UK), neglected to exercise them (e.g. Australia), or made them unconstitutional (e.g. US.) However, according to Pew research, while 47% of countries have laws penalising blasphemy, apostasy (leaving your religion), or defamation of faith, some some 32 countries actively prosecute blasphemy, including Denmark, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Netherlands and Poland, plus much of the Middle East, and parts of Asia. [http://www.pewforum.org...]

However, even if it is not illegal, many people argue that blasphemy is unethical. After all, even if you support a free exchange of ideas, what is it one needs to say through blasphemy that cannot be said without deliberately trying to give religious offense?

So... to the extent that ethics are typically founded on a sense of justice, which in turns entails mutual respect, can blasphemy ever be ethical?

Obviously, I have a view on this, but I'm interested in hearing yours.
NoMagic
Posts: 507
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3/22/2015 8:49:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 8:34:03 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Blasphemy: n. The action or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk:
-- Oxford English Dictionary

blasphemy (n.) early 13c., from Old French blasfemie "blasphemy," from Late Latin blasphemia, from Greek blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of."
-- http://www.etymonline.com...+

Throughout pre-modern times, blasphemy was frequently punishable by death. However in modern times, most developed countries have either repealed their blasphemy laws (e.g. UK), neglected to exercise them (e.g. Australia), or made them unconstitutional (e.g. US.) However, according to Pew research, while 47% of countries have laws penalising blasphemy, apostasy (leaving your religion), or defamation of faith, some some 32 countries actively prosecute blasphemy, including Denmark, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Netherlands and Poland, plus much of the Middle East, and parts of Asia. [http://www.pewforum.org...]

However, even if it is not illegal, many people argue that blasphemy is unethical. After all, even if you support a free exchange of ideas, what is it one needs to say through blasphemy that cannot be said without deliberately trying to give religious offense?

So... to the extent that ethics are typically founded on a sense of justice, which in turns entails mutual respect, can blasphemy ever be ethical?

Obviously, I have a view on this, but I'm interested in hearing yours.

I think I have two opinions on this.
One, no god exists. So blasphemy as an offense to a god isn't on the table. Therefore in this regards it has no ethical violations.
Two, I don't consider offending someone as unethical. It would be unreasonable to consider offense to a person as unethical. One can find offense anywhere one wishes. A North Korean may be offended in the pure existence of America. That wouldn't make the existence of America unethical. So if we don't consider offense itself an ethical violation, then blasphemy, which may offend a religious person, isn't unethical.
So yes, blasphemy is ethically defensible based on what would be considered reasonable ethics.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/22/2015 8:55:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
NoMagic, than you for your thoughts.

At 3/22/2015 8:49:50 PM, NoMagic wrote:
One, no god exists. So blasphemy as an offense to a god isn't on the table. Therefore in this regards it has no ethical violations.

So, given that opinions on metaphysics are divided, is blasphemy an expression of arrogant metaphysical supremacism?

I don't consider offending someone as unethical.

Given that blasphemy can make someone feel stupid or unwelcome in their beliefs, and that this is frequently intentional, is blasphemy different in any respect from racism?
EtrnlVw
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3/22/2015 9:15:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 8:34:03 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Blasphemy: n. The action or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk:
-- Oxford English Dictionary

blasphemy (n.) early 13c., from Old French blasfemie "blasphemy," from Late Latin blasphemia, from Greek blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of."
-- http://www.etymonline.com...+

Throughout pre-modern times, blasphemy was frequently punishable by death. However in modern times, most developed countries have either repealed their blasphemy laws (e.g. UK), neglected to exercise them (e.g. Australia), or made them unconstitutional (e.g. US.) However, according to Pew research, while 47% of countries have laws penalising blasphemy, apostasy (leaving your religion), or defamation of faith, some some 32 countries actively prosecute blasphemy, including Denmark, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Netherlands and Poland, plus much of the Middle East, and parts of Asia. [http://www.pewforum.org...]

However, even if it is not illegal, many people argue that blasphemy is unethical. After all, even if you support a free exchange of ideas, what is it one needs to say through blasphemy that cannot be said without deliberately trying to give religious offense?

So... to the extent that ethics are typically founded on a sense of justice, which in turns entails mutual respect, can blasphemy ever be ethical?

Obviously, I have a view on this, but I'm interested in hearing yours.

In Christianity if you look closely the blasphemy Jesus spoke of (Matthew 12) was that of the Spirit of God (Holy Ghost), it was a direct assault to the Spirit. This was a warning for anyone but He was actually speaking to religious folks not unbelievers. It was the believers (religious people) who spoke against the Spirit of God because they were unable to recognize it and they hated it and cursed it. The "movement" of the Spirit of God is not to be spoken against.
So in this context do you think it is "ethical" to act and speak against the Spirit of God? What would be worth doing that?
RuvDraba
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3/22/2015 9:32:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 9:15:30 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
do you think it is "ethical" to act and speak against the Spirit of God? What would be worth doing that?

I think that's a moral question, Vow -- is it good to do so? The ethical question would be a different one: for example, if one is not a Christian, is it ethical to speak disrespectfully of Christian faith?
celestialtorahteacher
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3/22/2015 9:48:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Because there exists false religions, when these false religions label someone who doesn't agree with their false tenets a blasphemer, it really doesn't matter as the labeler is not telling the truth himself which is usually why they get so mad at "blasphemers", i.e., people telling the truth about religious beliefs that should never see the light of day.
celestialtorahteacher
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3/22/2015 9:50:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is no blasphemy to God. There are bad jokes and good ones, but God's heard them all and frankly is quite bored with the whole subject.
bornofgod
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3/22/2015 9:55:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 8:34:03 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Blasphemy: n. The action or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk:
-- Oxford English Dictionary

blasphemy (n.) early 13c., from Old French blasfemie "blasphemy," from Late Latin blasphemia, from Greek blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of."
-- http://www.etymonline.com...+

Throughout pre-modern times, blasphemy was frequently punishable by death. However in modern times, most developed countries have either repealed their blasphemy laws (e.g. UK), neglected to exercise them (e.g. Australia), or made them unconstitutional (e.g. US.) However, according to Pew research, while 47% of countries have laws penalising blasphemy, apostasy (leaving your religion), or defamation of faith, some some 32 countries actively prosecute blasphemy, including Denmark, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Netherlands and Poland, plus much of the Middle East, and parts of Asia. [http://www.pewforum.org...]

However, even if it is not illegal, many people argue that blasphemy is unethical. After all, even if you support a free exchange of ideas, what is it one needs to say through blasphemy that cannot be said without deliberately trying to give religious offense?

So... to the extent that ethics are typically founded on a sense of justice, which in turns entails mutual respect, can blasphemy ever be ethical?

Obviously, I have a view on this, but I'm interested in hearing yours.: :

I've been called a blasphemer of the false deity named " Jesus" many times since I started preaching the ONLY gospel ( Voice of the Lord ) here in Campbell, CA. on July 24th, 2011. In fact, I will be killed illegally because of it.
bornofgod
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3/22/2015 10:00:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 9:50:17 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
There is no blasphemy to God. There are bad jokes and good ones, but God's heard them all and frankly is quite bored with the whole subject. : :

God is the Creator of everything that we experience both visible and invisible. The word "blaspheme" is just a word that He put in the minds of His religious people to pretend they have some kind of power over another person. It's the same thing as the words, "good" and "evil". There is no meaning to any of these words. They are all subjective from each person's perspective.
RuvDraba
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3/22/2015 10:04:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 9:55:21 PM, bornofgod wrote:
I've been called a blasphemer of the false deity named " Jesus" many times since I started preaching the ONLY gospel ( Voice of the Lord ) here in Campbell, CA. on July 24th, 2011. In fact, I will be killed illegally because of it.

Well, if that's fated, it's fated, BoG. I just hope the person who kills you is a Brazilian gymnast Tantric masseuse.

So if you see a lithe, coffee-skinned woman in a leotard tumbling furiously at you, run! (But not too fast -- it might ruin the prophecy.)
celestialtorahteacher
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3/22/2015 10:11:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Boringofgod, why don't you just walk up to a bunch of Christian cops if they exist and say you've got a weapon and then start to reach for your Bible in your street clothes pocket. They may be willing to do you suicide by cop wish and then it's just waiting for the lava to arrive, right?
bornofgod
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3/22/2015 10:14:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 10:04:11 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/22/2015 9:55:21 PM, bornofgod wrote:
I've been called a blasphemer of the false deity named " Jesus" many times since I started preaching the ONLY gospel ( Voice of the Lord ) here in Campbell, CA. on July 24th, 2011. In fact, I will be killed illegally because of it.

Well, if that's fated, it's fated, BoG. I just hope the person who kills you is a Brazilian gymnast Tantric masseuse.

So if you see a lithe, coffee-skinned woman in a leotard tumbling furiously at you, run! (But not too fast -- it might ruin the prophecy.)

I've already witnessed the last 20 seconds of my life here in this world before I saw a handgun drawn up to my forehead and hear the gun go off. I didn't feel a thing when I woke up in a very peaceful state of mind. Then I woke up from that dream screaming for my parents since I was only five years old.

In March of 2011, just before I came back to Campbell, CA, from living in Barcelona, Spain for eight years, God had me relive that dream again and told me that it was my future. I learned why I was to be killed in August of 2009. When I started preaching the gospel in Campbell, I found the room that I will be killed in so now I know why, how, where and before January 24th, I thought I knew when but I was wrong.

However, I will be killed soon for blaspheme of the Christian god named Jesus.
bornofgod
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3/22/2015 10:15:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 10:06:58 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Can bad jokes really die? That is the fundamental question for the boringofgod troll must ask himself.::

You're hatred towards me proves you are not of God.
RuvDraba
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3/22/2015 10:24:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 10:14:36 PM, bornofgod wrote:
I thought I knew when but I was wrong.

Well, dying is easy. All the Neanderthals managed it, so I guess we can too.

Living well is much harder. I hope you do that for a bit longer; things here are a lot more fun with you around. :)
bornofgod
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3/22/2015 10:41:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 10:24:13 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/22/2015 10:14:36 PM, bornofgod wrote:
I thought I knew when but I was wrong.

Well, dying is easy. All the Neanderthals managed it, so I guess we can too.

Especially when you know what's beyond death.

Living well is much harder. I hope you do that for a bit longer;: :

I'm experiencing some of the best moments of my life without any bills to pay and all the friends that I have now.

I'm having a great time with my grandchildren this past year now that they're old enough to play with me. I'm just like a kid when I play with them and they love it.

things here are a lot more fun with you around. :): :

I'm actually having a good time meeting some of God's believers in this forum, even if they tell me they're atheists or Christians. I don't hate any of God's people because I know who they really are beyond the visible body that they believe is real. But some of them sure hate to hear that they're only illusions. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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3/23/2015 7:01:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I should be permitted to say what I like about he any deity, without fear of prosecution for blasphemy, especially as there is no evidence any of them exist.
bornofgod
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3/23/2015 8:45:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 7:01:17 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I should be permitted to say what I like about he any deity, without fear of prosecution for blasphemy, especially as there is no evidence any of them exist.: :

Blaspheme is a meaningless word to those of us who know religious people are totally deceived by what they observe in this world.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,588
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3/23/2015 9:11:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/22/2015 8:34:03 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Blasphemy: n. The action or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk:
-- Oxford English Dictionary

blasphemy (n.) early 13c., from Old French blasfemie "blasphemy," from Late Latin blasphemia, from Greek blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of."
-- http://www.etymonline.com...+

Throughout pre-modern times, blasphemy was frequently punishable by death. However in modern times, most developed countries have either repealed their blasphemy laws (e.g. UK), neglected to exercise them (e.g. Australia), or made them unconstitutional (e.g. US.) However, according to Pew research, while 47% of countries have laws penalising blasphemy, apostasy (leaving your religion), or defamation of faith, some some 32 countries actively prosecute blasphemy, including Denmark, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Netherlands and Poland, plus much of the Middle East, and parts of Asia. [http://www.pewforum.org...]

However, even if it is not illegal, many people argue that blasphemy is unethical. After all, even if you support a free exchange of ideas, what is it one needs to say through blasphemy that cannot be said without deliberately trying to give religious offense?

So... to the extent that ethics are typically founded on a sense of justice, which in turns entails mutual respect, can blasphemy ever be ethical?

Of course not, and you used the key word here, "respect". Religions never offer respect nor do they teach it, we can see that clearly from the behavior of MadCornishHen and OddJobGod. That is because "mutual respect" is between people, but people are irrelevant in religion, they are mindless fodder with the only purpose being to praise and worship, no respect required whatsoever.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
dhardage
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3/23/2015 10:49:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Blasphemy is as ethically defensible as is any criticism of a flawed and potentially dangerous philosophy. Given the way some religions attempt to force their system on society as a whole blasphemers stand as a warning about the misuse and abuse of religious texts and laws. Any country with blasphemy laws should just put up a sign saying 'We are afraid of the religious groups within our borders so just keep your mouths shut."
bornofgod
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3/23/2015 11:14:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 10:49:43 AM, dhardage wrote:
Blasphemy is as ethically defensible as is any criticism of a flawed and potentially dangerous philosophy. Given the way some religions attempt to force their system on society as a whole blasphemers stand as a warning about the misuse and abuse of religious texts and laws. Any country with blasphemy laws should just put up a sign saying 'We are afraid of the religious groups within our borders so just keep your mouths shut.": :

Blaspheme, good and evil have confused religious people ever since they heard these words.
PureX
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3/23/2015 11:37:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I guess I would say that the charge of blasphemy is a mechanism of (religious) ideological enforcement. And since such enforcement has rarely impacted positively on the human experience, it should probably be rejected.

There are always exceptions to every rule, and I am sure there have been instances in history when the forced subjugation of a society to some religious ideology or other actually held the society together, and in peace, but these exceptions do not disprove the rule. People need to be able to live according to their own beliefs to the degree that this is possible, or they are not fully living. And although this freedom allows for a lot of turmoil and strife, I still think it's better than the alternative. Which is just existing.

Viv la difference! As they say.
bornofgod
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3/23/2015 11:55:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 11:37:02 AM, PureX wrote:
I guess I would say that the charge of blasphemy is a mechanism of (religious) ideological enforcement. And since such enforcement has rarely impacted positively on the human experience, it should probably be rejected.

There are always exceptions to every rule, and I am sure there have been instances in history when the forced subjugation of a society to some religious ideology or other actually held the society together, and in peace, but these exceptions do not disprove the rule. People need to be able to live according to their own beliefs to the degree that this is possible, or they are not fully living. And although this freedom allows for a lot of turmoil and strife, I still think it's better than the alternative. Which is just existing.

Viv la difference! As they say.

Freedom of religion is the best experience there is by those who know our Creator. To live according to God's will without having to pretend to be living under His will by practicing religion is an awesome experience.
PureX
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3/23/2015 12:34:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 11:55:47 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/23/2015 11:37:02 AM, PureX wrote:
Viv la difference! As they say.

Freedom of religion is the best experience there is by those who know our Creator. To live according to God's will without having to pretend to be living under His will by practicing religion is an awesome experience.

I completely agree.

Unfortunately, most of time, when I see someone say that, they immediately follow it up by proselytizing some religion or other.
bornofgod
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3/23/2015 12:39:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:34:48 PM, PureX wrote:
At 3/23/2015 11:55:47 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/23/2015 11:37:02 AM, PureX wrote:
Viv la difference! As they say.

Freedom of religion is the best experience there is by those who know our Creator. To live according to God's will without having to pretend to be living under His will by practicing religion is an awesome experience.

I completely agree.

Unfortunately, most of time, when I see someone say that, they immediately follow it up by proselytizing some religion or other.: :

Don't listen to anyone trying to get you to join their group and live free my friend. You can be friends with anyone who is involved in a group but it's not always possible for anyone in a group to be friends with people who are free from groups.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,588
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3/23/2015 12:42:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 11:55:47 AM, bornofgod wrote:

Freedom of religion is the best experience there is by those who know our Creator. To live according to God's will without having to pretend to be living under His will by practicing religion is an awesome experience.

Unfortunately, too many believers abuse their freedoms, deciding that they should ignore and disrespect the freedoms of others by proselytizing their beliefs.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bornofgod
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3/23/2015 12:45:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:42:09 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2015 11:55:47 AM, bornofgod wrote:

Freedom of religion is the best experience there is by those who know our Creator. To live according to God's will without having to pretend to be living under His will by practicing religion is an awesome experience.

Unfortunately, too many believers abuse their freedoms, deciding that they should ignore and disrespect the freedoms of others by proselytizing their beliefs.: :

A few of us were chosen to find God's chosen believers to let them know they were right in believing in the true Creator who is totally invisible to His creation. This isn't called proselytizing someone into a group of religious traditions and Babylonian thought like the heathen Christians do.
PureX
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3/23/2015 3:53:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 12:42:09 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/23/2015 11:55:47 AM, bornofgod wrote:

Freedom of religion is the best experience there is by those who know our Creator. To live according to God's will without having to pretend to be living under His will by practicing religion is an awesome experience.

Unfortunately, too many believers abuse their freedoms, deciding that they should ignore and disrespect the freedoms of others by proselytizing their beliefs.

Yes, I've always been puzzled by that phenomenon. And it's not just happening in regards to religion. There seem to be a lot of people (particularly here in the U.S.) who want to use their own right to free speech and action to deny their fellow citizens those exact same rights. It's becoming an epidemic among all sorts of "social conservatives", these days. Freedom only seems to mean that they be free to do as they please, while they punish anyone who dares to disagree. It's bizarrely selfish, to the point of incoherence.
RuvDraba
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3/23/2015 4:08:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 10:49:43 AM, dhardage wrote:
Blasphemy is as ethically defensible as is any criticism of a flawed and potentially dangerous philosophy.

What if the statement is not a criticism of religion but simply a denigration of its symbols? Or what if it's unclear, so that some interpret it one way, and others interpret it another?

A famous art-work called Piss Christ has caused controversy in many places where it has been shown. It's a photograph depicting a plastic crucifix in a yellow liquid, which the artist claims is his own urine. [http://en.wikipedia.org...]

Many Christians have called it blasphemy, and some have attempted to have the image withdrawn from display, while others have attacked it in a manner reminiscent of the Muslim attacks on images of their prophet.

Is it ethically defensible to create and display this work, or only respectful and constructive critiques?
dhardage
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3/23/2015 4:28:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/23/2015 4:08:33 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/23/2015 10:49:43 AM, dhardage wrote:
Blasphemy is as ethically defensible as is any criticism of a flawed and potentially dangerous philosophy.

What if the statement is not a criticism of religion but simply a denigration of its symbols? Or what if it's unclear, so that some interpret it one way, and others interpret it another?

A famous art-work called Piss Christ has caused controversy in many places where it has been shown. It's a photograph depicting a plastic crucifix in a yellow liquid, which the artist claims is his own urine. [http://en.wikipedia.org...]

Many Christians have called it blasphemy, and some have attempted to have the image withdrawn from display, while others have attacked it in a manner reminiscent of the Muslim attacks on images of their prophet.

Is it ethically defensible to create and display this work, or only respectful and constructive critiques?

I don't personally see any ethical context here. The individual is expressing his opinion via what he calls art (I'd not use that word, personally). It is not causing harm or actively interfering with anyone practicing their religion so it is as ethical as me calling Christianity one of the greatest con games in history.

Please note that this is my opinion and mine only and should not be attributed to any other person, atheist or otherwise.