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Tax-exempt religious institutions

PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/21/2010 5:27:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I was reading a debate on DDO recently that questioned the legitimacy of religious institutions enjoying a tax-exempt status.

What are your thoughts? Should we tax churches? If so, why? Should we not tax churches? If so, why?

Talk amongst yourselves....
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/22/2010 3:56:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/21/2010 5:27:42 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I was reading a debate on DDO recently that questioned the legitimacy of religious institutions enjoying a tax-exempt status.

What are your thoughts? Should we tax churches? If so, why? Should we not tax churches? If so, why?

Talk amongst yourselves....
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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7/22/2010 10:32:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
There should cetainly be no additional 'religious tax', nor should their be any sort of special exemptions. Religions should be treated as Corporations, or charities.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/22/2010 10:33:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 10:32:40 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
There should cetainly be no additional 'religious tax', nor should their be any sort of special exemptions. Religions should be treated as Corporations, or charities.

Exactly.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/22/2010 10:34:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 10:32:40 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
There should cetainly be no additional 'religious tax', nor should their be any sort of special exemptions. Religions should be treated as Corporations, or charities.:

But corporations and charities are two different things, though... ? I don't understand.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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7/22/2010 10:35:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 10:34:14 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 7/22/2010 10:32:40 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
There should cetainly be no additional 'religious tax', nor should their be any sort of special exemptions. Religions should be treated as Corporations, or charities.:

But corporations and charities are two different things, though... ? I don't understand.

Any two Religions or any two Religious institutions are different things as well. They should be treated according to what they are.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/22/2010 10:36:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 10:34:14 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 7/22/2010 10:32:40 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
There should cetainly be no additional 'religious tax', nor should their be any sort of special exemptions. Religions should be treated as Corporations, or charities.:

But corporations and charities are two different things, though... ? I don't understand.

Charities don't pay taxes. "Not for profits" don't pay taxes. There are a lot of situations where an entity doesn't pay a tax.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/22/2010 11:13:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Any two Religions or any two Religious institutions are different things as well. They should be treated according to what they are.:

So you would or would not tax religious institutions?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/22/2010 11:15:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:13:03 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Any two Religions or any two Religious institutions are different things as well. They should be treated according to what they are.:

So you would or would not tax religious institutions?

Case by case basis. If it's a for profit organisation then it can be subjected to tax on it's profits, if it's a charity it's exempt.

I'd rather not tax corporations at all but hey the money has to come from somewhere.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/22/2010 11:18:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Charities don't pay taxes. "Not for profits" don't pay taxes. There are a lot of situations where an entity doesn't pay a tax.:

I don't think that charities or religious institutions should be taxed, but some people seem to think they should. I want to know what their arguments for it are.

I think items they purchase should be taxed and nothing else. For instance, if a church buys a hundred copies of a bible, they should pay the tax attached to the sale of the bibles. But they shouldn't have to pay taxes on re-selling the bibles since they already payed the tax for it.

And for, say, the Salvation Army, they should not have to be taxed on selling donated clothes because the little money they make from the sales goes to purchasing goods for the needy and keeping their electricity running (a not-for-profit organization).
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/22/2010 11:20:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't know, I'm still figuring it out.

I'm also contemplating whether religion should be treated as a mental illness or not.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/22/2010 11:24:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:20:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't know, I'm still figuring it out.

I'm also contemplating whether religion should be treated as a mental illness or not.

A mental illness is surely something that causes genuine debilitation and an inability to deal with life. Not all religious persuasions do that.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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7/22/2010 11:28:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:20:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't know, I'm still figuring it out.

I'm also contemplating whether religion should be treated as a mental illness or not.

Well they (the religious) would fit the diagnostic criteria for being pshchologically delusional if being religious was not specifically exempt in said diagnostic criteria.

No, religious organizations should not be exempt from taxes simply for being religious organizations. It's a stupid reason and, if the situation were liberaly interpreted, could qualify as being in violation of the first amendment.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
FREEDO
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7/22/2010 11:31:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:24:04 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 7/22/2010 11:20:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't know, I'm still figuring it out.

I'm also contemplating whether religion should be treated as a mental illness or not.

A mental illness is surely something that causes genuine debilitation and an inability to deal with life. Not all religious persuasions do that.

Not an entire inability. Many psychopaths and schizophreniacs can deal with life, just not in a completely functional way. I'd say religion does a lot worse and many times includes both of those. Perhaps a better idea is to rise suspicion of mental illness based on amount of religiosity, since it is often associated with it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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7/22/2010 11:33:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:28:56 AM, Korashk wrote:
At 7/22/2010 11:20:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't know, I'm still figuring it out.

I'm also contemplating whether religion should be treated as a mental illness or not.

Well they (the religious) would fit the diagnostic criteria for being pshchologically delusional if being religious was not specifically exempt in said diagnostic criteria.

What is the criteria exactly?

No, religious organizations should not be exempt from taxes simply for being religious organizations. It's a stupid reason and, if the situation were liberaly interpreted, could qualify as being in violation of the first amendment.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/22/2010 11:35:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Case by case basis. If it's a for profit organisation then it can be subjected to tax on it's profits, if it's a charity it's exempt.:

But the slippery slope is that this is money being donated, and you can't therefore tax donations because nothing of commercial value is being traded.

Now, if you ask whether or not it personally sickens me that these mega-church pastors makes money hand-over-fist, I will happily tell you that it does.

But I don't let personal matters hold sway over the equity or non-equity of something.

I'd rather not tax corporations at all but hey the money has to come from somewhere.:

Taxes are a necessary evil. I just wish we had a more tax plan instituted. I also wish governments wouldn't squander the tax money they do receive. It's amazing how many useless programs (money pits) exist.

And the sh*tty thing with corporations is that they embed their taxes in to the price of the product you want to purchase, so that the consumer pays for the corporations tax obligation, and then you pay your share. You're double-taxed!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/22/2010 11:40:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:35:45 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Case by case basis. If it's a for profit organisation then it can be subjected to tax on it's profits, if it's a charity it's exempt.:

But the slippery slope is that this is money being donated, and you can't therefore tax donations because nothing of commercial value is being traded.

People earn money and have to pay on that money, the donation should not be taxed unless the Church in question turns it into a profit and is not operating as a charity.


Now, if you ask whether or not it personally sickens me that these mega-church pastors makes money hand-over-fist, I will happily tell you that it does.

But I don't let personal matters hold sway over the equity or non-equity of something.

I'd rather not tax corporations at all but hey the money has to come from somewhere.:

Taxes are a necessary evil. I just wish we had a more tax plan instituted. I also wish governments wouldn't squander the tax money they do receive. It's amazing how many useless programs (money pits) exist.

And the sh*tty thing with corporations is that they embed their taxes in to the price of the product you want to purchase, so that the consumer pays for the corporations tax obligation, and then you pay your share. You're double-taxed!

Essentially yes, taxes are bad for everyone. Gee I am turning slowly and painfully into a libertarian.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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7/22/2010 11:42:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
•The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
•That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
•Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
•The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
•There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
•An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
•The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient's social, cultural and religious background.
•The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his or her psyche.
•The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs.
•Individuals who know the patient will observe that his or her belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien.

From the wiki page on delusional disorder and you should note that one need not fit EVERY criteria for a diagnosis, just many.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/22/2010 11:44:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:42:22 AM, Korashk wrote:
•The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
•That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
•Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
•The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
•There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
•An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
•The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient's social, cultural and religious background.
•The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his or her psyche.
•The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs.
•Individuals who know the patient will observe that his or her belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien.

From the wiki page on delusional disorder and you should note that one need not fit EVERY criteria for a diagnosis, just many.

Brilliant. I'm blogging this.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/22/2010 11:48:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:42:22 AM, Korashk wrote:
•The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
•That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
•Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
•The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
•There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
•An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
•The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient's social, cultural and religious background.
•The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his or her psyche.
•The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs.
•Individuals who know the patient will observe that his or her belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien.

From the wiki page on delusional disorder and you should note that one need not fit EVERY criteria for a diagnosis, just many.

Pretty much proves it.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/22/2010 11:52:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:20:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't know, I'm still figuring it out.

I'm also contemplating whether religion should be treated as a mental illness or not.

Umm...no. I'd say it's not a mental illness. I would argue that many of the extremists are probably mentally ill, but other than that religion is not a mental illness.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/22/2010 11:56:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 11:52:36 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 7/22/2010 11:20:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't know, I'm still figuring it out.

I'm also contemplating whether religion should be treated as a mental illness or not.

Umm...no. I'd say it's not a mental illness. I would argue that many of the extremists are probably mentally ill, but other than that religion is not a mental illness.

Yeah excessive religious devotion is. Like GodSands, probably mentally ill.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave