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Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon

Strikeeagle84015
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7/22/2010 12:56:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I would say dang near half this site has said that they can prove that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a satanic hell spawned manuscript, that it fully contradicts the bible and that those who believe in it will go to hell.

But
I have yet to find a single person who can come up with a logical or coherent argument.
So I challenge you disprove that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and prove that the Book of Mormon is false

Note.
A source is only considered Church doctrine if it was a)Published by the Church or b) Said over the pulpit at general confrence
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/22/2010 12:59:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hmm...I'm tempted to do the same with the Qur'an since there has been people claiming that's false, entirely made up by Muhammad.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/22/2010 1:02:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 12:58:44 PM, sal wrote:
Are there any witnesses that he spoke to god?
There are elven. If you have a copy of the Book of Mormon, after the title page and introduction page there is the Testimony of the Three Witnesses and the Testimony of the Eight Witnesses.
If you don't have a Book of Mormon you can also find it at these links
http://scriptures.lds.org...
http://scriptures.lds.org...
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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7/22/2010 1:03:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 12:56:54 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I would say dang near half this site has said that they can prove that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a satanic hell spawned manuscript, that it fully contradicts the bible and that those who believe in it will go to hell.

But
I have yet to find a single person who can come up with a logical or coherent argument.
So I challenge you disprove that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and prove that the Book of Mormon is false

Note.
A source is only considered Church doctrine if it was a)Published by the Church or b) Said over the pulpit at general confrence

The burden of proof doesnt rest on us, it rests on you.

I dont have proof that Unicorns dont exist. Doesnt mean that my belief in unicorns becomes any more likely, plausible, or logical valid and reasonable.

Youve shifted the burden of proof. Fail.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/22/2010 1:03:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
How about the Satanic bible. Its completely moral. It actually reflects my beliefs fairly well, don't judge people, treat people how they treat you, do not harm others, especially children an animals, and don't refrain from what you want, including porn, food, money etc. So long as you live by the law your fine. Plus its like the only kind of bible I read that does not veiw gays as bad.

Not exactly a religion but its worth defending. It has good morals but is given a bad name.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/22/2010 1:04:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:03:15 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 12:56:54 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I would say dang near half this site has said that they can prove that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a satanic hell spawned manuscript, that it fully contradicts the bible and that those who believe in it will go to hell.

But
I have yet to find a single person who can come up with a logical or coherent argument.
So I challenge you disprove that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and prove that the Book of Mormon is false

Note.
A source is only considered Church doctrine if it was a)Published by the Church or b) Said over the pulpit at general confrence

The burden of proof doesnt rest on us, it rests on you.

I dont have proof that Unicorns dont exist. Doesnt mean that my belief in unicorns becomes any more likely, plausible, or logical valid and reasonable.

Youve shifted the burden of proof. Fail.

Regardless of burden of proof many people have claimed they can prove it is false, but no one has yet. As for proof there are 11 witnesses for starters.
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/22/2010 1:06:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:04:09 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:03:15 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 12:56:54 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I would say dang near half this site has said that they can prove that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a satanic hell spawned manuscript, that it fully contradicts the bible and that those who believe in it will go to hell.

But
I have yet to find a single person who can come up with a logical or coherent argument.
So I challenge you disprove that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and prove that the Book of Mormon is false

Note.
A source is only considered Church doctrine if it was a)Published by the Church or b) Said over the pulpit at general confrence

The burden of proof doesnt rest on us, it rests on you.

I dont have proof that Unicorns dont exist. Doesnt mean that my belief in unicorns becomes any more likely, plausible, or logical valid and reasonable.

Youve shifted the burden of proof. Fail.

Regardless of burden of proof many people have claimed they can prove it is false, but no one has yet. As for proof there are 11 witnesses for starters.

To be fair, how do we know their real witnesses and not for publicity? I'm sure we can find 11 people that believe in flying pink invisible unicorns. Does that make it true?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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7/22/2010 1:08:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:04:09 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

Regardless of burden of proof many people have claimed they can prove it is false, but no one has yet. As for proof there are 11 witnesses for starters.

Well, only christians and muslims would claim that, cause atheists dont beleive in satan or hell spawns.

But actually, yes, i could probably use the bible and/or the Quran to prove that the book of mormon is a hellspawn, though.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/22/2010 1:09:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:06:33 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:04:09 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:03:15 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 12:56:54 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I would say dang near half this site has said that they can prove that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a satanic hell spawned manuscript, that it fully contradicts the bible and that those who believe in it will go to hell.

But
I have yet to find a single person who can come up with a logical or coherent argument.
So I challenge you disprove that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and prove that the Book of Mormon is false

Note.
A source is only considered Church doctrine if it was a)Published by the Church or b) Said over the pulpit at general confrence

The burden of proof doesnt rest on us, it rests on you.

I dont have proof that Unicorns dont exist. Doesnt mean that my belief in unicorns becomes any more likely, plausible, or logical valid and reasonable.

Youve shifted the burden of proof. Fail.

Regardless of burden of proof many people have claimed they can prove it is false, but no one has yet. As for proof there are 11 witnesses for starters.

To be fair, how do we know their real witnesses and not for publicity? I'm sure we can find 11 people that believe in flying pink invisible unicorns. Does that make it true?

That is a valid concern but these witnesses were willing to be tarred and feathered, beaten, driven out of their homes, walk across most of the US, been persecuted, and endured all other horrible things, because they witnessed as for how do we know they exist, how do you know George Washington existed, or Newton, or Julius Ceaser for that matter.
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/22/2010 1:10:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:08:14 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:04:09 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

Regardless of burden of proof many people have claimed they can prove it is false, but no one has yet. As for proof there are 11 witnesses for starters.

Well, only christians and muslims would claim that, cause atheists dont beleive in satan or hell spawns.

But actually, yes, i could probably use the bible and/or the Quran to prove that the book of mormon is a hellspawn, though.

Then do it.
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/22/2010 1:14:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:09:25 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

That is a valid concern but these witnesses were willing to be tarred and feathered, beaten, driven out of their homes, walk across most of the US, been persecuted, and endured all other horrible things, because they witnessed as for how do we know they exist, how do you know George Washington existed, or Newton, or Julius Ceaser for that matter.

You can know that they existed because there is physical proof that they lived. Their graves, their homes, their works, and what they did that affects us.

I cannot know for sure if Washington ever saw a ghost. I cannot tell if Newton had an encounter with a vampire. And I have no way of knowing that Caeser was brain controlled by purple unicorns. I can use my knowlage of the world to say that none of that probably happened. Tho it could make a good story, maybe throw in some morals. Maybe tell people how they must live their lives or else suffer a painful doom.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/22/2010 1:16:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:14:10 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:09:25 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

That is a valid concern but these witnesses were willing to be tarred and feathered, beaten, driven out of their homes, walk across most of the US, been persecuted, and endured all other horrible things, because they witnessed as for how do we know they exist, how do you know George Washington existed, or Newton, or Julius Ceaser for that matter.

You can know that they existed because there is physical proof that they lived. Their graves, their homes, their works, and what they did that affects us.

Well these mens physical existence is undebatable as they also had graves, their works effected the world, etc.
I cannot know for sure if Washington ever saw a ghost. I cannot tell if Newton had an encounter with a vampire. And I have no way of knowing that Caeser was brain controlled by purple unicorns. I can use my knowlage of the world to say that none of that probably happened. Tho it could make a good story, maybe throw in some morals. Maybe tell people how they must live their lives or else suffer a painful doom.
Now you are just questioning their credibility which is hardly disproving anything
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/22/2010 1:18:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:18:21 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:10:00 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Then do it.

Sure.

Does the book of Mormon worship Muhammad?

Not last time I checked.
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/22/2010 1:23:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Besides the fact it's completely retarded that we should have to prove you wrong. You should have to prove it right. I'll humor you.

Joseph Smith was an obvious Con man. He conceived Book of Moron by looking into a hat and spouting off what he saw to someone who wrote it down. The wife of the guy who was writing it down became very suspicious and urged her husband to "lose" the writings and see if Smith could make it again. He did this and told Smith that he had lost it. Smith then said that God was very angry with him and would no longer reveal the same writings, it had been lost forever. But he would give the rest of it. Pathetic.

Joseph Smith also claimed to be able to read Egyptian hieroglyphs, which nobody could at the time. One day he was asked to read what it said on a sarcophagus. He said that it was written by Moses himself describing Genesis and actually mentioned there being more than one God. Later, the Rosetta stone was found and the sarcophagus was able to be translated; it was a portion of the Book of the Dead.

But forget all this!! Dismiss it like I know you will! There is still no reason to believe it IS true.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/22/2010 1:26:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:23:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Besides the fact it's completely retarded that we should have to prove you wrong. You should have to prove it right. I'll humor you.

Joseph Smith was an obvious Con man. He conceived Book of Moron by looking into a hat and spouting off what he saw to someone who wrote it down. The wife of the guy who was writing it down became very suspicious and urged her husband to "lose" the writings and see if Smith could make it again. He did this and told Smith that he had lost it. Smith then said that God was very angry with him and would no longer reveal the same writings, it had been lost forever. But he would give the rest of it. Pathetic.

Joseph Smith also claimed to be able to read Egyptian hieroglyphs, which nobody could at the time. One day he was asked to read what it said on a sarcophagus. He said that it was written by Moses himself describing Genesis and actually mentioned there being more than one God. Later, the Rosetta stone was found and the sarcophagus was able to be translated; it was a portion of the Book of the Dead.

But forget all this!! Dismiss it like I know you will! There is still no reason to believe it IS true.

Sounds like the SP episode I gave.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/22/2010 1:39:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:06:33 PM, lovelife wrote:

To be fair, how do we know their real witnesses and not for publicity? I'm sure we can find 11 people that believe in flying pink invisible unicorns. Does that make it true?

Witness =/= Believer

There's a difference between the person who says they believe in unicorns and those who say they SAW a unicorn.

It's a common mistake that many people make.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/22/2010 1:44:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:39:27 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:06:33 PM, lovelife wrote:

To be fair, how do we know their real witnesses and not for publicity? I'm sure we can find 11 people that believe in flying pink invisible unicorns. Does that make it true?

Witness =/= Believer

There's a difference between the person who says they believe in unicorns and those who say they SAW a unicorn.

It's a common mistake that many people make.

True, very true. I'm sorry about that. There are people that would believe it, and also some that say they saw them.

Just cause someone says or really believes they saw something, does not mean that its true.

If you want proof you have to find some kind of physical evidence.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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7/22/2010 1:46:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:18:47 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:18:21 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:10:00 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Then do it.

Sure.

Does the book of Mormon worship Muhammad?

Not last time I checked.

Then its automatically the demon spawn book from hell.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/22/2010 1:55:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:46:45 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:18:47 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:18:21 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:10:00 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Then do it.

Sure.

Does the book of Mormon worship Muhammad?

Not last time I checked.

Then its automatically the demon spawn book from hell.

How so? Muslims don't worship Muhammad either so your point doesn't prove anything.
tkubok
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7/22/2010 3:55:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:55:38 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
How so? Muslims don't worship Muhammad either so your point doesn't prove anything.

Err, sorry, by worship i mean Acknolwedge that Muhammad was the last prophet of God. Yeah, i make mistakes, cause im not a muslim. :(
InsertNameHere
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7/22/2010 4:01:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 3:55:01 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/22/2010 1:55:38 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
How so? Muslims don't worship Muhammad either so your point doesn't prove anything.

Err, sorry, by worship i mean Acknolwedge that Muhammad was the last prophet of God. Yeah, i make mistakes, cause im not a muslim. :(

Oh ok. Yea, I thought you meant that we actually worship Muhammad. >.<
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/23/2010 3:28:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 12:56:54 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I would say dang near half this site has said that they can prove that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is a satanic hell spawned manuscript, that it fully contradicts the bible and that those who believe in it will go to hell.

But
I have yet to find a single person who can come up with a logical or coherent argument.
So I challenge you disprove that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and prove that the Book of Mormon is false

Note.
A source is only considered Church doctrine if it was a)Published by the Church or b) Said over the pulpit at general confrence

Read an OUTSIDE source; ANY book on cults! you will not because you are AFRAID to.

Fear or faith, fear or faith..
The Cross.. the Cross.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/23/2010 6:01:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
So I challenge you disprove that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and prove that the Book of Mormon is false:

Better yet, prove that he is a prophet of God. The burden of proof is with you. Why? Because if something does not exist, then you cannot offer positive proof of that. All one can do is take specific arguments, and debunk them.

We'll start with this question:

Is the Book of Mormon the infallible, incorruptible truth of God that cannot be changed or altered, because God preserves it?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
JustCallMeTarzan
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7/23/2010 8:12:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/22/2010 1:03:33 PM, lovelife wrote:
How about the Satanic bible. Its completely moral. It actually reflects my beliefs fairly well, don't judge people, treat people how they treat you, do not harm others, especially children an animals, and don't refrain from what you want, including porn, food, money etc. So long as you live by the law your fine. Plus its like the only kind of bible I read that does not veiw gays as bad.

Not exactly a religion but its worth defending. It has good morals but is given a bad name.

I did a debate similar to that... http://www.debate.org...

But I would take it up again... I don't think I have my copy of the Satanic Bible here tho =(