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A challenge to believers.

Excalibur
Posts: 170
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3/28/2015 11:56:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am on my way out the door at the present moment, so I thought I would produce a Challenge to Believers post. I do this from time to time on the other debate sites I frequent; religious discussions should also involve scripture debates as well, not just the constant: "prove God or He doesn't exist" conjecture. I am new here, so I presume an easy one should come first; I don't know many of you or how well you know the Word of God.

The challenge: How many times did Christ exit forth from a virgin?

I'll check back in later to declare the winner. There is no prize. It's just for fun.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/29/2015 1:25:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/28/2015 11:56:23 PM, Excalibur wrote:
I am on my way out the door at the present moment, so I thought I would produce a Challenge to Believers post. I do this from time to time on the other debate sites I frequent; religious discussions should also involve scripture debates as well, not just the constant: "prove God or He doesn't exist" conjecture. I am new here, so I presume an easy one should come first; I don't know many of you or how well you know the Word of God.

The challenge: How many times did Christ exit forth from a virgin?

I'll check back in later to declare the winner. There is no prize. It's just for fun. : :

The invisible Word of God can't be seen by anyone and Christ means the same exact thing as the Word of God.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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3/29/2015 5:03:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/28/2015 11:56:23 PM, Excalibur wrote:
The challenge: How many times did Christ exit forth from a virgin?

I am not sure what you mean with that question. But I answer one time. :)
Gentorev
Posts: 2,948
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3/29/2015 5:30:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/28/2015 11:56:23 PM, Excalibur wrote:
I am on my way out the door at the present moment, so I thought I would produce a Challenge to Believers post. I do this from time to time on the other debate sites I frequent; religious discussions should also involve scripture debates as well, not just the constant: "prove God or He doesn't exist" conjecture. I am new here, so I presume an easy one should come first; I don't know many of you or how well you know the Word of God.

The challenge: How many times did Christ exit forth from a virgin?

I'll check back in later to declare the winner. There is no prize. It's just for fun.

Jesus, through whom CHRIST=The Anointed one revealed himself, was born of human parents as revealed in the Holy Scriptures, His parents were, Mary and her half brother Joseph, who were both sired by Alexander Helios=Heli.
YoshiBoy13
Posts: 96
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3/29/2015 6:18:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
None times. I point out a relevant mnemonic for remembering the planets in the solar system:
Mary's Virgin Explanation Made Joseph Suspect Upstairs Neighbour
- Just because you're narrow-minded doesn't mean you're always right.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,948
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3/29/2015 6:45:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 6:18:31 AM, YoshiBoy13 wrote:
None times. I point out a relevant mnemonic for remembering the planets in the solar system:
Mary's Virgin Explanation Made Joseph Suspect Upstairs Neighbour

Which of the many men in the NT by the name Joseph are you referring to? Joseph the son of Jacob, the 24th descendant of Solomon, who married Mary, who was already pregnant to Joseph the son of Heli=Alexander Helios, who had also sired Mary? That Joseph, being about the 40th descendant of Nathan the prophet who was the adopted son of King David.
YoshiBoy13
Posts: 96
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3/29/2015 9:28:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 6:45:59 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/29/2015 6:18:31 AM, YoshiBoy13 wrote:
None times. I point out a relevant mnemonic for remembering the planets in the solar system:
Mary's Virgin Explanation Made Joseph Suspect Upstairs Neighbour

Which of the many men in the NT by the name Joseph are you referring to? Joseph the son of Jacob, the 24th descendant of Solomon, who married Mary, who was already pregnant to Joseph the son of Heli=Alexander Helios, who had also sired Mary? That Joseph, being about the 40th descendant of Nathan the prophet who was the adopted son of King David.

You're missing the point here, I think. I'm referring to Mary's husband, of course. It was meant as a humorous comment to not really be taken seriously.
Source: xkcd.com/992
- Just because you're narrow-minded doesn't mean you're always right.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/29/2015 9:42:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/28/2015 11:56:23 PM, Excalibur wrote:
I am on my way out the door at the present moment, so I thought I would produce a Challenge to Believers post. I do this from time to time on the other debate sites I frequent; religious discussions should also involve scripture debates as well, not just the constant: "prove God or He doesn't exist" conjecture. I am new here, so I presume an easy one should come first; I don't know many of you or how well you know the Word of God.

The challenge: How many times did Christ exit forth from a virgin?

I'll check back in later to declare the winner. There is no prize. It's just for fun.

The true answer, though I doubt you will except it is:

None.

Jesus did not became the Christ until he underwent baptism to show that he was willing to take on that role.

People forget that he had a choice, and he was in fact actually giving up his body to the Son off God.

There are a number of hints to that in scripture, the first of which comes in Matthew 1:18-20
ASV(i) 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Not once was the unborn child called the son of God, he was conceived "of holy spirit" not of God.

It is also important to remember that whilst Jesus became known as Jesus Christ, Christ is in fact not a name, it is a title, and therefore if you want to be pedantic about it, he should be called Jesus the Christ.

His true name was Jesus Bar Joseph, meaning Jesus son of Joseph, named thus as was the custom in those times.

However, if you really know your scriptures you will know that the birth of Jesus was not in fact the first virgin birth we are told of.

Do you know when the first occurred and why?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/29/2015 1:04:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 9:42:17 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/28/2015 11:56:23 PM, Excalibur wrote:
I am on my way out the door at the present moment, so I thought I would produce a Challenge to Believers post. I do this from time to time on the other debate sites I frequent; religious discussions should also involve scripture debates as well, not just the constant: "prove God or He doesn't exist" conjecture. I am new here, so I presume an easy one should come first; I don't know many of you or how well you know the Word of God.

The challenge: How many times did Christ exit forth from a virgin?

I'll check back in later to declare the winner. There is no prize. It's just for fun.

The true answer, though I doubt you will except it is:

None.

Jesus did not became the Christ until he underwent baptism to show that he was willing to take on that role.

People forget that he had a choice, and he was in fact actually giving up his body to the Son off God. : :

God's people do not listen to My Voice or obey any of My commandments. Therefore, they remain confused as to what Christ and Son of God means and that no water baptism is required to know Me.

There are a number of hints to that in scripture, the first of which comes in Matthew 1:18-20
ASV(i) 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Not once was the unborn child called the son of God, he was conceived "of holy spirit" not of God.

It is also important to remember that whilst Jesus became known as Jesus Christ, Christ is in fact not a name, it is a title, and therefore if you want to be pedantic about it, he should be called Jesus the Christ.

His true name was Jesus Bar Joseph, meaning Jesus son of Joseph, named thus as was the custom in those times.

However, if you really know your scriptures you will know that the birth of Jesus was not in fact the first virgin birth we are told of.

Do you know when the first occurred and why?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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3/29/2015 1:09:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/28/2015 11:56:23 PM, Excalibur wrote:
I am on my way out the door at the present moment, so I thought I would produce a Challenge to Believers post. I do this from time to time on the other debate sites I frequent; religious discussions should also involve scripture debates as well, not just the constant: "prove God or He doesn't exist" conjecture. I am new here, so I presume an easy one should come first; I don't know many of you or how well you know the Word of God.

The challenge: How many times did Christ exit forth from a virgin?

I'll check back in later to declare the winner. There is no prize. It's just for fun.

Three times. He exited as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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3/29/2015 1:49:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
None.

Mary wasn't a virgin. Unless we are talking about how many potential virginities JC might have taken in a more bawdy vein, Mary wasn't virgin when Christ was born. All the immaculate conception stuff came about as a means of considering Mary to be free of sin, so she could give birth to Jesus. At least, that is the TL DR of some catholic dogma, which of course over years and years and years turned Mary into a virgin as opposed to an ultra-sanctified and holy entity.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/29/2015 2:27:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 1:49:42 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
None.

Mary wasn't a virgin. Unless we are talking about how many potential virginities JC might have taken in a more bawdy vein, Mary wasn't virgin when Christ was born. All the immaculate conception stuff came about as a means of considering Mary to be free of sin, so she could give birth to Jesus. At least, that is the TL DR of some catholic dogma, which of course over years and years and years turned Mary into a virgin as opposed to an ultra-sanctified and holy entity.

The "immaculate conception stuff", as you put it, came about because Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born, and he was not even the first virgin birth in scripture.

People like you try to diminish Jesus sacrifice which would have been of no use whatever had Jesus not been conceived in a Virgin's womb.

It isn't exactly a difficult thing for the creator of all things, and the one who made Eve from part of one of Adam's ribs.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/29/2015 2:28:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 1:09:48 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/28/2015 11:56:23 PM, Excalibur wrote:
I am on my way out the door at the present moment, so I thought I would produce a Challenge to Believers post. I do this from time to time on the other debate sites I frequent; religious discussions should also involve scripture debates as well, not just the constant: "prove God or He doesn't exist" conjecture. I am new here, so I presume an easy one should come first; I don't know many of you or how well you know the Word of God.

The challenge: How many times did Christ exit forth from a virgin?

I'll check back in later to declare the winner. There is no prize. It's just for fun.

Three times. He exited as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Nope, that is a Trinitarian lie.
Excalibur
Posts: 170
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3/29/2015 5:09:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If we take the Word of God as it is, and not as we wish it to be, the correct answer is 2.

Once, when He come forth out of the virgin Mary, and the second time when He rose from the dead. The tomb which He was buried and rose in was an unused tomb. It was a virgin tomb. The word virgin is used to describe something that has not not been used. The correct answer is 2. No one got it.
SNP1
Posts: 2,406
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3/29/2015 6:45:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not a believer, but:
Historically, none (he is a myth)
Biblically, none (virgin was a mistranslation)
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Rant
Posts: 1,674
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3/29/2015 7:06:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ex> you have come to one that flew over the cucoos nest!> you wont ever get anything done here!. but give it a try. Enjoy your stay Miss Ratchet is waiting for you! Enjoy your stay.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/29/2015 11:01:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 2:27:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/29/2015 1:49:42 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
None.

Mary wasn't a virgin. Unless we are talking about how many potential virginities JC might have taken in a more bawdy vein, Mary wasn't virgin when Christ was born. All the immaculate conception stuff came about as a means of considering Mary to be free of sin, so she could give birth to Jesus. At least, that is the TL DR of some catholic dogma, which of course over years and years and years turned Mary into a virgin as opposed to an ultra-sanctified and holy entity.


The "immaculate conception stuff", as you put it, came about because Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born, and he was not even the first virgin birth in scripture.

I didn't know anyone was born in scripture. I thought everything visible and invisible was born in the thoughts of our Creator.

The He and Him in the following scripture means God's thoughts where we were all born, MCB.

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities " all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
19: For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,

Jesus knew that the words he spoke came from the thoughts of God;

John 7
13: Yet for fear of the Jews no one spoke openly of him.
14: About the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught.
15: The Jews marveled at it, saying, "How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?"
16: So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me;

John 14
24: He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.

1 John 2
27: but the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.

All us saints are anointed with the thoughts of God, also known as Christ, Son of God, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of the Spirit, Kingdom of Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, Messiah, Zion, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, etc.

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!



People like you try to diminish Jesus sacrifice which would have been of no use whatever had Jesus not been conceived in a Virgin's womb.

It isn't exactly a difficult thing for the creator of all things, and the one who made Eve from part of one of Adam's ribs.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/30/2015 6:02:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 6:45:49 PM, SNP1 wrote:
Not a believer, but:
Historically, none (he is a myth)
Biblically, none (virgin was a mistranslation)

Almost right.

The original word was "Maiden" but in those days "Maiden" and "virgin" were synonyms. Any faithful maiden, such as Mary, was a virgin until married.

Actually it is still true today. Any true follower of Christ who is a virgin when they start following Christ stays one until married.

If they aren't a virgin when they start serving Jehovah, they live as one until married.

That applies equally to male and female.

God's standards have never changed even though those of the world have gone way downhill.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/30/2015 6:12:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 5:09:45 PM, Excalibur wrote:
If we take the Word of God as it is, and not as we wish it to be, the correct answer is 2.

Once, when He come forth out of the virgin Mary, and the second time when He rose from the dead. The tomb which He was buried and rose in was an unused tomb. It was a virgin tomb. The word virgin is used to describe something that has not not been used. The correct answer is 2. No one got it.

That is an interesting thought, but suffers one problem

Jesus was only born as a human once.

On his resurrection he did not become flesh again but was resurrected as a spirit (1 Peter 3:18,19)

He then materialised a human body, as the angels before him had done, for instance, when visiting and saving Lot.

That explains why: (Read Luke 24.

No-one recognised him except by his mannerisms, even though tow of them spent some time walking on the road to Emmaus, and even shared a meal with him, only recognising him by the way he broke bread.

When they did finally recognise him he simply "vanished from their sight". He didn't get up from the table and leave, he simply vanished.

Then, he was able to appear in the middle of the crowd in a locked room in Jerusalem, so suddenly they thought they were seeing a spirit.

He had to actually produce his wounds, even though his hands and feet were on full view and the wounds should have been obvious.

In fact had he been resurrected in the flesh it would have made his sacrifice invalid.

Maybe you don't know scripture quite as well as you thought?
Excalibur
Posts: 170
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3/30/2015 6:41:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 6:12:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
That is an interesting thought, but suffers one problem

Jesus was only born as a human once.

On his resurrection he did not become flesh again but was resurrected as a spirit (1 Peter 3:18,19)

He then materialised a human body, as the angels before him had done, for instance, when visiting and saving Lot.

That explains why: (Read Luke 24.

No-one recognised him except by his mannerisms, even though tow of them spent some time walking on the road to Emmaus, and even shared a meal with him, only recognising him by the way he broke bread.

When they did finally recognise him he simply "vanished from their sight". He didn't get up from the table and leave, he simply vanished.

Then, he was able to appear in the middle of the crowd in a locked room in Jerusalem, so suddenly they thought they were seeing a spirit.

He had to actually produce his wounds, even though his hands and feet were on full view and the wounds should have been obvious.

In fact had he been resurrected in the flesh it would have made his sacrifice invalid.

Maybe you don't know scripture quite as well as you thought?

How he Came forth does not matter, whether in spirit or body, He was placed in and raised from within the tomb nonetheless. It was a virgin tomb. The question was not did He raise as spirit or flesh.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/30/2015 7:01:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 6:41:59 AM, Excalibur wrote:
At 3/30/2015 6:12:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
That is an interesting thought, but suffers one problem

Jesus was only born as a human once.

On his resurrection he did not become flesh again but was resurrected as a spirit (1 Peter 3:18,19)

He then materialised a human body, as the angels before him had done, for instance, when visiting and saving Lot.

That explains why: (Read Luke 24.

No-one recognised him except by his mannerisms, even though tow of them spent some time walking on the road to Emmaus, and even shared a meal with him, only recognising him by the way he broke bread.

When they did finally recognise him he simply "vanished from their sight". He didn't get up from the table and leave, he simply vanished.

Then, he was able to appear in the middle of the crowd in a locked room in Jerusalem, so suddenly they thought they were seeing a spirit.

He had to actually produce his wounds, even though his hands and feet were on full view and the wounds should have been obvious.

In fact had he been resurrected in the flesh it would have made his sacrifice invalid.

Maybe you don't know scripture quite as well as you thought?

How he Came forth does not matter, whether in spirit or body, He was placed in and raised from within the tomb nonetheless. It was a virgin tomb. The question was not did He raise as spirit or flesh.

OK, lol, fair enough. Bit of a pointless exercise really then.

It didn't reveal anything about bible knowledge just about how to be clever with words.
Excalibur
Posts: 170
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3/30/2015 7:04:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 7:01:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
OK, lol, fair enough. Bit of a pointless exercise really then.

It didn't reveal anything about bible knowledge just about how to be clever with words.

I did not take into account that the word virgin would stump most as it did, as the word virgin is not an absolute. It merely describes. Next time I will keep that in mind :)
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/30/2015 7:23:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 7:04:33 AM, Excalibur wrote:
At 3/30/2015 7:01:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
OK, lol, fair enough. Bit of a pointless exercise really then.

It didn't reveal anything about bible knowledge just about how to be clever with words.

I did not take into account that the word virgin would stump most as it did, as the word virgin is not an absolute. It merely describes. Next time I will keep that in mind :)

Like many words it has numerous meanings, though in scripture, and in those days it was only applied to a young woman, or in rare cases to a spiritual state.

Words aren't really as important as the meaning the author was intending to get across. which can so easily get lost in translation.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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3/30/2015 7:25:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 5:09:45 PM, Excalibur wrote:
If we take the Word of God as it is, and not as we wish it to be, the correct answer is 2.

Once, when He come forth out of the virgin Mary, and the second time when He rose from the dead. The tomb which He was buried and rose in was an unused tomb. It was a virgin tomb. The word virgin is used to describe something that has not not been used. The correct answer is 2. No one got it.

Smh...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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3/30/2015 10:44:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/29/2015 2:27:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/29/2015 1:49:42 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
None.

Mary wasn't a virgin. Unless we are talking about how many potential virginities JC might have taken in a more bawdy vein, Mary wasn't virgin when Christ was born. All the immaculate conception stuff came about as a means of considering Mary to be free of sin, so she could give birth to Jesus. At least, that is the TL DR of some catholic dogma, which of course over years and years and years turned Mary into a virgin as opposed to an ultra-sanctified and holy entity.


The "immaculate conception stuff", as you put it, came about because Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born, and he was not even the first virgin birth in scripture.

People like you try to diminish Jesus sacrifice which would have been of no use whatever had Jesus not been conceived in a Virgin's womb.

Because it wasn't a sacrifice. It was an inconvenience. You are stating an immortal entity "died" on the cross, knew what the plan was, participated in the plan, and after being "Dead" for 3 days, was no longer dead. Putting a few thousand dollars on a shelf and not spending it for a few days is not a sacrifice. Jesus and the man upstairs didn't give anything up.

It isn't exactly a difficult thing for the creator of all things, and the one who made Eve from part of one of Adam's ribs.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Gentorev
Posts: 2,948
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3/30/2015 11:42:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 6:02:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/29/2015 6:45:49 PM, SNP1 wrote:
Not a believer, but:
Historically, none (he is a myth)
Biblically, none (virgin was a mistranslation)

Almost right.

The original word was "Maiden" but in those days "Maiden" and "virgin" were synonyms. Any faithful maiden, such as Mary, was a virgin until married.

Actually it is still true today. Any true follower of Christ who is a virgin when they start following Christ stays one until married.

If they aren't a virgin when they start serving Jehovah, they live as one until married.

That applies equally to male and female.

God's standards have never changed even though those of the world have gone way downhill.

The original Hebrew word used by Isaiah was "ALMAH" which means: "An unmarried female."

The Good News Bible: Catholic Study Edition: Proverbs 30; 19; translate the Hebrew term "Almah" as woman. "And a man and a woman falling in love."

The New Revised Standard bible, likewise translates the Hebrew "ALMAH," as "GIRL." "The way of a ship on the seas, and the way of a man with a girl."

Unlike the Greeks who did not have a specifis word for virgin, the Hebrew did, and that word is "BETHULAH" which is used in every instance in the OT where a woman who has had no sexual relations with a man, is referred to.

Genesis 24: 16; In reference to Rebecca we read, "And the "DAMSEL=yaldah=girl" was very fair to look upon, and was a virgin=bethulah= having never known a man sexually.

Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.

The emphasis in this prophecy is in the name "Immanuel=God is with us" The child that was born to the young girl Mary, would one day be filled with the spirit of our Lord which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say,"You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, THIS DAY, I HAVE BEGOTTEN THEE."

The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible, e.g. Psalm 132:5 ("Before I find a place for God, mishkanot (dwelling-places) for the Strong One of Israel.") Accordingly, in classic Jewish thought, the Shekhinah refers to a dwelling or settling in a special sense, a dwelling or settling of divine presence, to the effect that, while in proximity to the Shekhinah, the connection to God is more readily perceivable.
Some Christian theologians have connected the concept of Shekhinah to the Greek term "Parousia", "presence" "arrival," which is used in the New Testament in a similar way for "Divine Presence".

The Light of man came In the body of a human being, which he had filled with his spirit and lived with us, and we saw his Sh'khinah, (Dwelling place) the Sh'khinah, or Dwelling place, which was the body that the Son of Man, the MOST HIGH in the creation, came down and filled with his spirit that body that his Father had prepared for him, the man Jesus, who was the earthly dwelling of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth

Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV Translation: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

The Greek word parthenos used in Matthew 1:23 ; is ambiguous but the Hebrew term "Almah" that is erroneously translated in some Christian bibles as "virgin" is absolute, and according to Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term "Almah," carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)

Go to "A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature," by David Jeffery.
There you will find written, "Many scholars consider the new Revised Standard Version of the King James translation, which is probably the most widely used version of the English bible today, and considered by most modern scholars to be to be the most accurate translation of the Old Testament. It follows the modern consensus in translating "Almah" as "Young Woman" in Isaiah 7: 14.

In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. As a matter of fact, I have in front of me, A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England. And what do we read in Isaiah 7: 14; "A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son." I also have before me The Good News Bible, catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon: and on turning to Isaiah 7: 14; and what do you know? It says here, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc."
MadCornishBiker
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3/31/2015 7:17:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 11:42:49 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/30/2015 6:02:48 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/29/2015 6:45:49 PM, SNP1 wrote:
Not a believer, but:
Historically, none (he is a myth)
Biblically, none (virgin was a mistranslation)

Almost right.

The original word was "Maiden" but in those days "Maiden" and "virgin" were synonyms. Any faithful maiden, such as Mary, was a virgin until married.

Actually it is still true today. Any true follower of Christ who is a virgin when they start following Christ stays one until married.

If they aren't a virgin when they start serving Jehovah, they live as one until married.

That applies equally to male and female.

God's standards have never changed even though those of the world have gone way downhill.

The original Hebrew word used by Isaiah was "ALMAH" which means: "An unmarried female."

The Good News Bible: Catholic Study Edition: Proverbs 30; 19; translate the Hebrew term "Almah" as woman. "And a man and a woman falling in love."

The New Revised Standard bible, likewise translates the Hebrew "ALMAH," as "GIRL." "The way of a ship on the seas, and the way of a man with a girl."

Unlike the Greeks who did not have a specifis word for virgin, the Hebrew did, and that word is "BETHULAH" which is used in every instance in the OT where a woman who has had no sexual relations with a man, is referred to.

Genesis 24: 16; In reference to Rebecca we read, "And the "DAMSEL=yaldah=girl" was very fair to look upon, and was a virgin=bethulah= having never known a man sexually.

Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.

The emphasis in this prophecy is in the name "Immanuel=God is with us" The child that was born to the young girl Mary, would one day be filled with the spirit of our Lord which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say,"You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, THIS DAY, I HAVE BEGOTTEN THEE."

The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible, e.g. Psalm 132:5 ("Before I find a place for God, mishkanot (dwelling-places) for the Strong One of Israel.") Accordingly, in classic Jewish thought, the Shekhinah refers to a dwelling or settling in a special sense, a dwelling or settling of divine presence, to the effect that, while in proximity to the Shekhinah, the connection to God is more readily perceivable.
Some Christian theologians have connected the concept of Shekhinah to the Greek term "Parousia", "presence" "arrival," which is used in the New Testament in a similar way for "Divine Presence".

The Light of man came In the body of a human being, which he had filled with his spirit and lived with us, and we saw his Sh'khinah, (Dwelling place) the Sh'khinah, or Dwelling place, which was the body that the Son of Man, the MOST HIGH in the creation, came down and filled with his spirit that body that his Father had prepared for him, the man Jesus, who was the earthly dwelling of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth

Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV Translation: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

The Greek word parthenos used in Matthew 1:23 ; is ambiguous but the Hebrew term "Almah" that is erroneously translated in some Christian bibles as "virgin" is absolute, and according to Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term "Almah," carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)

Go to "A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature," by David Jeffery.
There you will find written, "Many scholars consider the new Revised Standard Version of the King James translation, which is probably the most widely used version of the English bible today, and considered by most modern scholars to be to be the most accurate translation of the Old Testament. It follows the modern consensus in translating "Almah" as "Young Woman" in Isaiah 7: 14.

In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. As a matter of fact, I have in front of me, A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England. And what do we read in Isaiah 7: 14; "A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son." I also have before me The Good News Bible, catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon: and on turning to Isaiah 7: 14; and what do you know? It says here, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc."

Yes, Apostates love distorting the truth of scripture don;t they.

No thanks, I will take God's advice and avoid the works of men, especially any men since the Apostasy, unless what they teach stands up to scripture 100%.

Scripture is the only touchstone I accept, and the promised wisdom and guidance God through his son and holy spirit is the final arbiter of my understanding.

Trust in Jehovah and his son for the guidance you need, not in men, any men at all.