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An age old question.

Excalibur
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3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bored and scrolling back through the forum, I saw this answer. The question itself is not why I bring it back up, but the answer that was given to it.

At 2/13/2015 3:41:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 2/13/2015 2:47:48 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

I hate it when people ask this question. This is an impossible question. There is no (yes/no) answer. Its like if I asked you "Have you stopped beating young children every day?". If you say yes then that means you used to beat young children every day. If you say no then that means you continue to beat young children every day. Its just a stupid question because there is no answer.

The word impossible has always been a problem with me. There is an answer to it. Most just don't know how to answer it correctly. You should not hate such questions either. They give one the ability to think. God loves it when His people dwell on Him. If the answer I provide conflicts with your religion, then there is not much I can do for you. I will provide the answer to the best of my knowledge regarding my own beliefs. Lets first take a look at the question in general, breaking it down as we move along.

If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

Omnipotent.
adjective
adjective: omnipotent

1. (of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything.
synonyms: all-powerful, almighty, supreme, preeminent, most high; More
invincible, unconquerable "the worship of omnipotent deities"
having ultimate power and influence.
"an omnipotent sovereign"

noun
noun: omnipotent; plural noun: omnipotents

1. God.

From here we come to understand that the word omnipotent implies that God is, and has, ultimate power, which is correct. God, as a supreme being, can do all things. There are many who take the question and, in a form of answer, tend to twist the question into something that it does not imply:

God, being all powerful, would, in a sense, be lying to Himself, had He created a rock so heavy that even He could not lift it. As God is all powerful and nothing but righteousness, we know that He cannot lie. Lying is unrighteous. God would not do that, therefore God, creating the rock to being with, would be lying, so the rock in question would not be created. This does not answer the question. God can do all things, correct? Creating a rock so heavy would not, in fact, be a lie, but a challenge. Now, ask yourself, why would God challenge Himself in that manner? Because out of that challenge came forth humanity.

The rock itself is not a rock, but sin. The sin is the rock so heavy that God could not lift it. But then you say to yourself:

"Did not Christ lift sin when He died for our sin?"

Not technically. Christ made sin transparent. The rock (sin) became walk through. Sin, as it is still a choice, will always exist. The rock will always be there, but now, as Christ died for our sins, it is no longer an object that requires movement. If the rock is no longer standing in the way, it no longer needs lifting, therefore no longer is there a point to it. That does not make the rock (sin) more powerful than God, but God more powerful than that rock, as that rock has now become nothing. Example:

If there was a wall blocking your path, and it was too high to jump over, too heavy to lift and too deep in the earth to dig under, you do what? You burrow through it. You create a hole, a doorway if you will, into the wall. The wall, in this manner, is no longer an obstacle. The wall has become no more of an issue.

We are not God, so we cannot make the wall transparent, but we can still add a tunnel through it. When sin became an option, after Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, God placed a rock between Him and us. That rock, again, was sin, and as we are born into sin, we no longer had fellowship with God. Christ came to not remove that rock, but allow us, everyone, access through it. As before, it was only the Jews who could receive God as their God, but even then it was not perfect. The rock (sin), was made transparent by Christ, so that the laws are no longer needed, but instead just a relationship. It is much more than this, but to sum it up:

The rock will never be destroyed. Sin, and all who follow it, will be cast into the lake of fire. It will always technically exist, but no longer, after it is thrown into the lake of fire, be in the way of a perfect relationship with God. For God to not have created the Rock (sin), none of us would have free-will. The rock (sin), had to be created, but God, being omnipotent, made the rock transparent. Sin (as Christ has made it easier to become one with Him through His death and resurrection, is now) is no longer stopping us from being close to God as we should be. The rock (sin), still exist, therefore we are not as we ought to be with Christ, as Adam and Eve were able to speak with God directly in the garden, but now we can at least have a more perfect relation with God, as nothing is no longer standing in the way of that.

Once more, as God is omnipotent, and therefore can do all things, He has made the rock transparent. It no longer requires removal. In other words, He created a doorway through that rock. The transparency allowing all of us to have a perfect relationship with Him.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/30/2015 2:04:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:
Bored and scrolling back through the forum, I saw this answer. The question itself is not why I bring it back up, but the answer that was given to it.

At 2/13/2015 3:41:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 2/13/2015 2:47:48 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

I hate it when people ask this question. This is an impossible question. There is no (yes/no) answer. Its like if I asked you "Have you stopped beating young children every day?". If you say yes then that means you used to beat young children every day. If you say no then that means you continue to beat young children every day. Its just a stupid question because there is no answer.

The word impossible has always been a problem with me. There is an answer to it. Most just don't know how to answer it correctly. You should not hate such questions either. They give one the ability to think. God loves it when His people dwell on Him. If the answer I provide conflicts with your religion, then there is not much I can do for you. I will provide the answer to the best of my knowledge regarding my own beliefs. Lets first take a look at the question in general, breaking it down as we move along.

If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

Omnipotent.
adjective
adjective: omnipotent

1. (of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything.
synonyms: all-powerful, almighty, supreme, preeminent, most high; More
invincible, unconquerable "the worship of omnipotent deities"
having ultimate power and influence.
"an omnipotent sovereign"

noun
noun: omnipotent; plural noun: omnipotents

1. God.


From here we come to understand that the word omnipotent implies that God is, and has, ultimate power, which is correct. God, as a supreme being, can do all things. There are many who take the question and, in a form of answer, tend to twist the question into something that it does not imply:

God, being all powerful, would, in a sense, be lying to Himself, had He created a rock so heavy that even He could not lift it. As God is all powerful and nothing but righteousness, we know that He cannot lie. Lying is unrighteous. God would not do that, therefore God, creating the rock to being with, would be lying, so the rock in question would not be created. This does not answer the question. God can do all things, correct? Creating a rock so heavy would not, in fact, be a lie, but a challenge. Now, ask yourself, why would God challenge Himself in that manner? Because out of that challenge came forth humanity.

The rock itself is not a rock, but sin. The sin is the rock so heavy that God could not lift it. But then you say to yourself:

"Did not Christ lift sin when He died for our sin?"

Not technically. Christ made sin transparent. The rock (sin) became walk through. Sin, as it is still a choice, will always exist. The rock will always be there, but now, as Christ died for our sins, it is no longer an object that requires movement. If the rock is no longer standing in the way, it no longer needs lifting, therefore no longer is there a point to it. That does not make the rock (sin) more powerful than God, but God more powerful than that rock, as that rock has now become nothing. Example:

If there was a wall blocking your path, and it was too high to jump over, too heavy to lift and too deep in the earth to dig under, you do what? You burrow through it. You create a hole, a doorway if you will, into the wall. The wall, in this manner, is no longer an obstacle. The wall has become no more of an issue.

We are not God, so we cannot make the wall transparent, but we can still add a tunnel through it. When sin became an option, after Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, God placed a rock between Him and us. That rock, again, was sin, and as we are born into sin, we no longer had fellowship with God. Christ came to not remove that rock, but allow us, everyone, access through it. As before, it was only the Jews who could receive God as their God, but even then it was not perfect. The rock (sin), was made transparent by Christ, so that the laws are no longer needed, but instead just a relationship. It is much more than this, but to sum it up:

The rock will never be destroyed. Sin, and all who follow it, will be cast into the lake of fire. It will always technically exist, but no longer, after it is thrown into the lake of fire, be in the way of a perfect relationship with God. For God to not have created the Rock (sin), none of us would have free-will. The rock (sin), had to be created, but God, being omnipotent, made the rock transparent. Sin (as Christ has made it easier to become one with Him through His death and resurrection, is now) is no longer stopping us from being close to God as we should be. The rock (sin), still exist, therefore we are not as we ought to be with Christ, as Adam and Eve were able to speak with God directly in the garden, but now we can at least have a more perfect relation with God, as nothing is no longer standing in the way of that.

Once more, as God is omnipotent, and therefore can do all things, He has made the rock transparent. It no longer requires removal. In other words, He created a doorway through that rock. The transparency allowing all of us to have a perfect relationship with Him.: :

Nothing is impossible for our Creator but the visible objects of this world made it impossible for most of His people to know Him or how they were created. However, God planned to destroy the visible objects of this world to make it impossible for any of His people to be deceived in the New Heaven and Earth.

By the way, none of His visible objects consist of mass so they don't weigh anything. They're only illusions that appear to be real and our senses that make them feel heavy are only illusions, also.

Have you ever weighed any visible objects in your dreams or are they only illusions, too?
Excalibur
Posts: 170
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3/30/2015 2:12:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:04:40 AM, bornofgod wrote:
By the way, none of His visible objects consist of mass so they don't weigh anything. They're only illusions that appear to be real and our senses that make them feel heavy are only illusions, also.

Have you ever weighed any visible objects in your dreams or are they only illusions, too?

That does not answer the question, Bog. The question was:

"Could God, being omnipotent, create a rock so big He cannot lift it."

That implies weight. You just asked in different terms:

"Could God create a weightless object so heavy he could not lift it."

Which is nonsense.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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3/30/2015 2:12:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I suppose it would be possible to argue that, as God created the laws of logic (including th e law of non-contradiction) that it would be possible for him to not be subject to those rules. That we, lowly as we are, cannot fathom a being above logic, that would seem to be exactly what God is.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/30/2015 2:19:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:12:41 AM, Excalibur wrote:
At 3/30/2015 2:04:40 AM, bornofgod wrote:
By the way, none of His visible objects consist of mass so they don't weigh anything. They're only illusions that appear to be real and our senses that make them feel heavy are only illusions, also.

Have you ever weighed any visible objects in your dreams or are they only illusions, too?

That does not answer the question, Bog. The question was:

"Could God, being omnipotent, create a rock so big He cannot lift it."

NO. God created rocks in this universe to make man believe they're real. Visible rocks are NOT REAL objects. They are illusions that each observer can observe in this world but they don't really exist at all.

That implies weight. You just asked in different terms:

"Could God create a weightless object so heavy he could not lift it."

Which is nonsense. : :

Some of God's illusions may appear to be nonsense but if they can be observed by an observer, they appear real to them. Such as an observer seeing aliens walking in and out of a U.F.O. parked on earth. Are they real or just illusions?
bornofgod
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3/30/2015 2:26:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:12:57 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I suppose it would be possible to argue that, as God created the laws of logic (including th e law of non-contradiction) that it would be possible for him to not be subject to those rules. That we, lowly as we are, cannot fathom a being above logic, that would seem to be exactly what God is. : :

Is anything in a dream logical or is it all an illusion that isn't real?

I experienced being a crop spraying plane flying above the fields spraying chemicals on crops in two different dreams on two different nights. Was my body ( the plane ) real or is it logical for man to have a body that's a plane?

Do you believe in U.F.O.'s and the aliens from other worlds that operate them? I have met many of God's chosen believers who have experienced images like that. Are they logical observations or just illusions they experienced?
Excalibur
Posts: 170
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3/30/2015 2:27:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:19:47 AM, bornofgod wrote:
NO. God created rocks in this universe to make man believe they're real. Visible rocks are NOT REAL objects. They are illusions that each observer can observe in this world but they don't really exist at all.

God created rocks to for many reasons. They can become tools, crushed for gravel, even sold as pets (pet rocks). He did not create them for the sole purpose of making you believe they're real, as we know by touching them they are. They do exist, Bog.

Some of God's illusions may appear to be nonsense but if they can be observed by an observer, they appear real to them. Such as an observer seeing aliens walking in and out of a U.F.O. parked on earth. Are they real or just illusions?

I don't know. I've never seen or touched an alien. If I had, and no one was around to see it, did it happen?
bsh1
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3/30/2015 2:34:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:26:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/30/2015 2:12:57 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I suppose it would be possible to argue that, as God created the laws of logic (including th e law of non-contradiction) that it would be possible for him to not be subject to those rules. That we, lowly as we are, cannot fathom a being above logic, that would seem to be exactly what God is. : :

Is anything in a dream logical or is it all an illusion that isn't real?

If you view reality as a dream of God's creation, which to me isn't an inapt analogy, then anything external to the dream would not need to conform to the in-dream rules. Similarly, one could say that reality is a universe all its own, but that in another universe the rules change or don't apply at all.

I experienced being a crop spraying plane flying above the fields spraying chemicals on crops in two different dreams on two different nights. Was my body ( the plane ) real or is it logical for man to have a body that's a plane?

I would need to be on LSD to answer that.

Do you believe in U.F.O.'s and the aliens from other worlds that operate them? I have met many of God's chosen believers who have experienced images like that. Are they logical observations or just illusions they experienced?

Again...LSD is kinda necessary for me to respond. You dealing?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/30/2015 2:39:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:27:14 AM, Excalibur wrote:
At 3/30/2015 2:19:47 AM, bornofgod wrote:
NO. God created rocks in this universe to make man believe they're real. Visible rocks are NOT REAL objects. They are illusions that each observer can observe in this world but they don't really exist at all.

God created rocks to for many reasons. They can become tools, crushed for gravel, even sold as pets (pet rocks). He did not create them for the sole purpose of making you believe they're real, as we know by touching them they are. They do exist, Bog. : :

I can see rocks, too, but now I know they're only illusions amongst all the other visible objects to give us a make-believe universe ( world ) to live in.


Some of God's illusions may appear to be nonsense but if they can be observed by an observer, they appear real to them. Such as an observer seeing aliens walking in and out of a U.F.O. parked on earth. Are they real or just illusions?

I don't know. I've never seen or touched an alien. If I had, and no one was around to see it, did it happen? : :

Whatever God gives you to observe is real to you but I know how God created and formed everything to make us believe we're real.

It's amazing what His computing language ( invisible vibrations ) can do when processed through His observers.
Excalibur
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3/30/2015 2:42:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:39:48 AM, bornofgod wrote:
I can see rocks, too, but now I know they're only illusions amongst all the other visible objects to give us a make-believe universe ( world ) to live in.

In an illusion one feels no pain. You can feel fear, but pain is not there. Take a rock and hit yourself in the leg as hard you can. Did you feel pain? Then it is not a illusion.

Whatever God gives you to observe is real to you but I know how God created and formed everything to make us believe we're real.

It's amazing what His computing language ( invisible vibrations ) can do when processed through His observers.

We are real, Bog. We think, therefore we are.
bornofgod
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3/30/2015 2:49:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:34:17 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/30/2015 2:26:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/30/2015 2:12:57 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I suppose it would be possible to argue that, as God created the laws of logic (including th e law of non-contradiction) that it would be possible for him to not be subject to those rules. That we, lowly as we are, cannot fathom a being above logic, that would seem to be exactly what God is. : :

Is anything in a dream logical or is it all an illusion that isn't real?

If you view reality as a dream of God's creation, which to me isn't an inapt analogy, then anything external to the dream would not need to conform to the in-dream rules. Similarly, one could say that reality is a universe all its own, but that in another universe the rules change or don't apply at all.

God's creation is nothing but invisible vibrations and we're only characters within that information. Each observer gets a proportion of illusions to observe so think of each observer with his own universe to experience but his universe and the universes of other observers do get involved with each other. This is what gives us a make-believe common world to live in.

Many universes can either make up the appearance of ONE universe or one universe for each observer, depending on what God designed for each observer in His program called Eternal Life.

I experienced being a crop spraying plane flying above the fields spraying chemicals on crops in two different dreams on two different nights. Was my body ( the plane ) real or is it logical for man to have a body that's a plane?

I would need to be on LSD to answer that.

I've met many of God's chosen believers who had experienced LSD. This is how God made them into believers of Him and the make-believe world each observer experiences.

Do you believe in U.F.O.'s and the aliens from other worlds that operate them? I have met many of God's chosen believers who have experienced images like that. Are they logical observations or just illusions they experienced?

Again...LSD is kinda necessary for me to respond. You dealing? : :

Imagine us as characters with life experiences in a computer simulation game called "The Sims".

Now think of us as characters and all our life experiences in a computer simulation game called "Eternal Life".

If you think of God's people and beasts as only characters who were born in His thoughts, then you are hearing the Truth.
bornofgod
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3/30/2015 3:02:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:42:51 AM, Excalibur wrote:
At 3/30/2015 2:39:48 AM, bornofgod wrote:
I can see rocks, too, but now I know they're only illusions amongst all the other visible objects to give us a make-believe universe ( world ) to live in.

In an illusion one feels no pain. : :

Don't you think pain is an illusion? Did you know some people don't have the sense of touch, similar to some people not having the sense of sight?

You can feel fear, but pain is not there. Take a rock and hit yourself in the leg as hard you can. Did you feel pain? Then it is not a illusion. : :

All our senses that make up a human being are only illusions to make us believe we're real. That's why some people don't experience pain, or feel fear, or are blind, deaf or dumb.

Could we experience a world with only one sense working, such as the sense of touch?

Whatever God gives you to observe is real to you but I know how God created and formed everything to make us believe we're real.

It's amazing what His computing language ( invisible vibrations ) can do when processed through His observers.

We are real, Bog. We think, therefore we are. : :

We think with what? What is who we are.

Thoughts is our true reality, not our visible bodies.

Psalm 94
7: and they say, "The LORD does not see; the God of Jacob does not perceive."
8: Understand, O dullest of the people! Fools, when will you be wise?
9: He who planted the ear, does he not hear? He who formed the eye, does he not see?
10: He who chastens the nations, does he not chastise? He who teaches men knowledge,
11: the LORD, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath.

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!


John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Even Jesus knew that God's thoughts is what gives a man life experiences and a visible body to observe.

Acts 17
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.
26: And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation,
27: that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
28: for ..In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, ..For we are indeed his offspring.'
29: Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man.

St. Paul knew we weren't real, either.

St. Peter knew that all God's illusions would burn up by the end of this first age ( Old Heaven and Earth ).

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
11: Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12: waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!

13: But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

All us saints are taught that our flesh are only illusions and so is death. We will awaken in new flesh in Paradise ( New Heaven and Earth ).
Excalibur
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3/30/2015 3:25:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 3:02:56 AM, bornofgod wrote:
Don't you think pain is an illusion? Did you know some people don't have the sense of touch, similar to some people not having the sense of sight?

Fear is the illusion. Pain is a feeling: one in emotion and one in a physical sense. Fear can only be felt emotionally, therefore it is an illusion. For something to be an illusion, it must be only felt in emotion. You are confusing feelings with reality. Can a sociopath touch, see, hear, smell and taste things, or are they an illusion?

Could we experience a world with only one sense working, such as the sense of touch?

Yes, as the literal definition of experience means:

practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
"he had already learned his lesson by painful experience"
synonyms: involvement in, participation in, contact with, acquaintance with, exposure to, observation of, awareness of, insight into
"his first experience of business"

If one could feel nothing, emotionally or physically, then their experience of that could still be described. Again, we think, therefore we are.

We think with what? What is who we are.

We think with the mind. The mind alone does not define us. If it did, we would all be what you claim to be (the chosen one of god).

Thoughts is our true reality, not our visible bodies.

Psalm 94
7: and they say, "The LORD does not see; the God of Jacob does not perceive."
8: Understand, O dullest of the people! Fools, when will you be wise?
9: He who planted the ear, does he not hear? He who formed the eye, does he not see?
10: He who chastens the nations, does he not chastise? He who teaches men knowledge,
11: the LORD, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath.

You're understanding of this is completely off. This does not teach us that we are illusions. It teaches us that God does hear and see those who act foolishly, and their foolishness is a waste of time, as what they say carries no weight.
mrsatan
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3/30/2015 4:09:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:

If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

I hate it when people ask this question. This is an impossible question. There is no (yes/no) answer.

Personally, I love this question. The short answer is "yes", but it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't actually mean God isn't omnipotent, it just seems that way. The extended answer is actually quite simple, so I find it rather funny when people ask it like it's the ultimate God question.

Anyways, the answer in it's entirety is as follows:

"Yes, as he is omnipotent, God could create a rock so heavy/big that he couldn't lift it. Of course, IF he did, then he would no longer be omnipotent.".
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
Excalibur
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3/30/2015 4:37:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 4:09:15 AM, mrsatan wrote:
Personally, I love this question. The short answer is "yes", but it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't actually mean God isn't omnipotent, it just seems that way. The extended answer is actually quite simple, so I find it rather funny when people ask it like it's the ultimate God question.

Anyways, the answer in it's entirety is as follows:

"Yes, as he is omnipotent, God could create a rock so heavy/big that he couldn't lift it. Of course, IF he did, then he would no longer be omnipotent.".

Nicely put. What people tend to forget is that strength lies not only in ones ability to lift heavy objects, as strength is also a power of the mind; even one's good characteristic is also a strength . Not being able to lift something heavier than your ability demands does not make one omnipotent, it makes one potent. Being able to take the object and make it no longer in the way is what makes one stronger. You become more than the rock demands you to be: Deeming and proving it less than important than it thinks of itself is what makes us human. Though even then, with our ability to burrow through it, we are still only mortal. Turning it entirely transparent is what makes one omnipotent.
Fkkize
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3/30/2015 4:45:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:


I hate it when people ask this question. This is an impossible question. There is no (yes/no) answer. Its like if I asked you "Have you stopped beating young children every day?". If you say yes then that means you used to beat young children every day. If you say no then that means you continue to beat young children every day. Its just a stupid question because there is no answer.

Well it's a loaded question, but because a yes/no answer is not going to leave a good impression of yourself it does not follow that it is impossible to answer. "Yes" and "No" are coherent responses, but so is "I never beat my children".

If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?


From here we come to understand that the word omnipotent implies that God is, and has, ultimate power, which is correct. God, as a supreme being, can do all things. There are many who take the question and, in a form of answer, tend to twist the question into something that it does not imply:

God, being all powerful, would, in a sense, be lying to Himself, had He created a rock so heavy that even He could not lift it. As God is all powerful and nothing but righteousness, we know that He cannot lie. Lying is unrighteous. God would not do that, therefore God, creating the rock to being with, would be lying, so the rock in question would not be created.

This does, as you say, not answer the question, because the lack of the ability to lie questions omnipotents.

The rock itself is not a rock, but sin. The sin is the rock so heavy that God could not lift it. But then you say to yourself:
[...]
Once more, as God is omnipotent, and therefore can do all things, He has made the rock transparent. It no longer requires removal. In other words, He created a doorway through that rock. The transparency allowing all of us to have a perfect relationship with Him.

This transforms the rock paradox into a metaphor, but does not give an actual answer to the paradox, because the original question was: "Can God create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?". If we now think of the rock as sin then the question becomes "Can God create sin so heavy he cannot lift it?", but here "lift" means something completly different. In the first question it referrs to physical excercise, in the second to a pretty abstract concept. I don't think that anyone really has a concept of what it means to "lift sin" other than achieving some kind of pure state of mind.
In the end this too leaves the question unanswered, if it is taken literally. Maybe this approach answers something in respect to sin, but not "Can God create a physical object so massive that he is unable to carry it around?".

I think the typical response is to say that omnipotence means "The ability to do anything that is logically possible".
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Excalibur
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3/30/2015 4:56:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 4:45:33 AM, Fkkize wrote:
[...]
This transforms the rock paradox into a metaphor, but does not give an actual answer to the paradox, because the original question was: "Can God create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?". If we now think of the rock as sin then the question becomes "Can God create sin so heavy he cannot lift it?", but here "lift" means something completly different. In the first question it referrs to physical excercise, in the second to a pretty abstract concept. I don't think that anyone really has a concept of what it means to "lift sin" other than achieving some kind of pure state of mind.
In the end this too leaves the question unanswered, if it is taken literally. Maybe this approach answers something in respect to sin, but not "Can God create a physical object so massive that he is unable to carry it around?".

I think the typical response is to say that omnipotence means "The ability to do anything that is logically possible".

Is sin not a burden? Is a burden not a heavy load? Did God not create free-will (sin)? That is why the rock must be thought of as metaphor. It is not something that cannot be destroyed, as the Word of God tells us that God will not destroy it, but cast it. Cast sin into the lake of Fire. As of now it is a heavy burden, one that God can carry, but not destroy. To destroy, or even to never have created the rock, would result in a humanity that makes choices not based on good or bad, but based on God, and God's alone, plan for us. Where He had perfection in mind, He allowed non-perfection, in order that we may become perfect by our own choosing. Not His alone. Though He alone carries the weight of that decision.
Fkkize
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3/30/2015 6:04:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 4:56:00 AM, Excalibur wrote:

Is sin not a burden? Is a burden not a heavy load? Did God not create free-will (sin)? That is why the rock must be thought of as metaphor. It is not something that cannot be destroyed, as the Word of God tells us that God will not destroy it, but cast it. Cast sin into the lake of Fire. As of now it is a heavy burden, one that God can carry, but not destroy.

Sin as a burden is already a metaphor or at least burden means two different things in this case. Would you not say that there is a difference in carrying a stone and emotional discomfort? The question is not "can he destroy?" but "can he lift?" but that is not really important, since the lack of the ability to destroy means still that God is not omnipotent.

To destroy, or even to never have created the rock, would result in a humanity that makes choices not based on good or bad, but based on God, and God's alone, plan for us. Where He had perfection in mind, He allowed non-perfection, in order that we may become perfect by our own choosing. Not His alone. Though He alone carries the weight of that decision.

I don't see why a benovolent God would allow anyone to be not created perfect.
Are you somehow applying the free will defence to the stone paradox?
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Philocat
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3/30/2015 6:26:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If omnipotence is the 'ability to anything', then we could simply highlight that logically incoherent propositions are not contained within 'anything'. For example, we would not say that a square circle is a thing.
A rock too large for an omnipotent being to lift is logically incoherent, hence it is not within the bounds of 'anything'.
Excalibur
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3/30/2015 6:34:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 6:04:46 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 3/30/2015 4:56:00 AM, Excalibur wrote:
Sin as a burden is already a metaphor or at least burden means two different things in this case. Would you not say that there is a difference in carrying a stone and emotional discomfort? The question is not "can he destroy?" but "can he lift?" but that is not really important, since the lack of the ability to destroy means still that God is not omnipotent.

An emotional discomfort is a burden that one must carry alone. If something cannot be destroyed, it would not make it omnipotent, but not mortal either. To say that it is heavy does not mean it cannot be lifted, but that it is burdensome, as one of the synonyms to burdensome is, in fact, weighty. To know that the question can be applied: so weighty; notes that the task has no longer become to carry a heavy literal stone, but to carry a burdensome stone. That stone now needs a purpose;That is if you are looking for an answer that can fit the context.

I don't see why a benovolent God would allow anyone to be not created perfect.
Are you somehow applying the free will defence to the stone paradox?

The angels are created perfect. They do not have a choice in serving God, except for the ones He created to purposely challenge Him with that said stone, in order that humanity be allowed to exist non-perfectly. As God is perfect, He cannot create non-perfection. Something has to bring it about. He created Adam in perfection. He created Lucifer to understand perfection, but not attain it, as Lucifer was never created with the option to ask forgiveness. He was created to make a choice and always stand by it. That is perfection. To create one with the ability to never attain it but ask how, try and always fail, is non-perfection, which He alone could not create without being challenged by an outside perfect force, whether that force is perfect in creation by absolute failure or absolute righteousness.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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3/30/2015 6:59:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 4:09:15 AM, mrsatan wrote:
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:

If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

I hate it when people ask this question. This is an impossible question. There is no (yes/no) answer.

Personally, I love this question. The short answer is "yes", but it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't actually mean God isn't omnipotent, it just seems that way. The extended answer is actually quite simple, so I find it rather funny when people ask it like it's the ultimate God question.

Anyways, the answer in it's entirety is as follows:

"Yes, as he is omnipotent, God could create a rock so heavy/big that he couldn't lift it. Of course, IF he did, then he would no longer be omnipotent.".

Actually, the answer to the question (which is illogical BTW) is that the weight of a rock has nothing to do with God's ability to lift it. One might as well ask,

Can God make a rock so yellow that He couldn't lift it?

God does not lift anything by opposing gravity. God does not apply power. He can "lift" a ten million ton boulder as easily as he can lift a pebble. The boulder isn't more difficult for Him to lift and He does not need to "apply more power" to lift it.

The trick in the question is that it restricts God to "lifting" the way humans do, by opposing gravity with a greater force. The weight of the rock has nothing to do with God's ability to lift it. The weight is immaterial.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/30/2015 7:37:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:
Bored and scrolling back through the forum, I saw this answer. The question itself is not why I bring it back up, but the answer that was given to it.

At 2/13/2015 3:41:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 2/13/2015 2:47:48 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

I hate it when people ask this question. This is an impossible question. There is no (yes/no) answer. Its like if I asked you "Have you stopped beating young children every day?". If you say yes then that means you used to beat young children every day. If you say no then that means you continue to beat young children every day. Its just a stupid question because there is no answer.

The word impossible has always been a problem with me. There is an answer to it. Most just don't know how to answer it correctly. You should not hate such questions either. They give one the ability to think. God loves it when His people dwell on Him. If the answer I provide conflicts with your religion, then there is not much I can do for you. I will provide the answer to the best of my knowledge regarding my own beliefs. Lets first take a look at the question in general, breaking it down as we move along.

If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

Omnipotent.
adjective
adjective: omnipotent

1. (of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything.
synonyms: all-powerful, almighty, supreme, preeminent, most high; More
invincible, unconquerable "the worship of omnipotent deities"
having ultimate power and influence.
"an omnipotent sovereign"

noun
noun: omnipotent; plural noun: omnipotents

1. God.


From here we come to understand that the word omnipotent implies that God is, and has, ultimate power, which is correct. God, as a supreme being, can do all things. There are many who take the question and, in a form of answer, tend to twist the question into something that it does not imply:

God, being all powerful, would, in a sense, be lying to Himself, had He created a rock so heavy that even He could not lift it. As God is all powerful and nothing but righteousness, we know that He cannot lie. Lying is unrighteous. God would not do that, therefore God, creating the rock to being with, would be lying, so the rock in question would not be created. This does not answer the question. God can do all things, correct? Creating a rock so heavy would not, in fact, be a lie, but a challenge. Now, ask yourself, why would God challenge Himself in that manner? Because out of that challenge came forth humanity.

The rock itself is not a rock, but sin. The sin is the rock so heavy that God could not lift it. But then you say to yourself:

"Did not Christ lift sin when He died for our sin?"

Not technically. Christ made sin transparent. The rock (sin) became walk through. Sin, as it is still a choice, will always exist. The rock will always be there, but now, as Christ died for our sins, it is no longer an object that requires movement. If the rock is no longer standing in the way, it no longer needs lifting, therefore no longer is there a point to it. That does not make the rock (sin) more powerful than God, but God more powerful than that rock, as that rock has now become nothing. Example:

If there was a wall blocking your path, and it was too high to jump over, too heavy to lift and too deep in the earth to dig under, you do what? You burrow through it. You create a hole, a doorway if you will, into the wall. The wall, in this manner, is no longer an obstacle. The wall has become no more of an issue.

We are not God, so we cannot make the wall transparent, but we can still add a tunnel through it. When sin became an option, after Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, God placed a rock between Him and us. That rock, again, was sin, and as we are born into sin, we no longer had fellowship with God. Christ came to not remove that rock, but allow us, everyone, access through it. As before, it was only the Jews who could receive God as their God, but even then it was not perfect. The rock (sin), was made transparent by Christ, so that the laws are no longer needed, but instead just a relationship. It is much more than this, but to sum it up:

The rock will never be destroyed. Sin, and all who follow it, will be cast into the lake of fire. It will always technically exist, but no longer, after it is thrown into the lake of fire, be in the way of a perfect relationship with God. For God to not have created the Rock (sin), none of us would have free-will. The rock (sin), had to be created, but God, being omnipotent, made the rock transparent. Sin (as Christ has made it easier to become one with Him through His death and resurrection, is now) is no longer stopping us from being close to God as we should be. The rock (sin), still exist, therefore we are not as we ought to be with Christ, as Adam and Eve were able to speak with God directly in the garden, but now we can at least have a more perfect relation with God, as nothing is no longer standing in the way of that.

Once more, as God is omnipotent, and therefore can do all things, He has made the rock transparent. It no longer requires removal. In other words, He created a doorway through that rock. The transparency allowing all of us to have a perfect relationship with Him.

I guess you must be bored, I had forgotten what that was like myself.

In a sense what you are showing us is how some people take one meaning of a word and insist on applying that meaning, whether it is the right one or not.

I don't now whether or not God could make a rock heavy enough that he couldn't lift it, but fortunately that is a paradox I doubt he has any interest in exploring, after all it would be pointless and nothing he does, or allows, is without point.

However, your point that he is capable of doing anything he wants to is well made.

Very much a part of his power, his potency, is the power of self control, something which we must test to the limit sometimes.

Some people consider being moral, and just a weakness, but in fact it is the exact opposite since it takes strength to control the inevitable emotions that become involved.

That is, of course, why some people find the Permission of Evil we are currently suffering under so difficult to understand.

They forget that:

A) Justice applies as much to the guilty as the innocent, or it isn't truly justice.

B) It often requires massive amounts of control to resist acting on impulse and letting yourself be ruled by qualities such as Love, Wisdom, Mercy and Justice, as God is.

Hence we are currently in this invidious position, but not for much longer as even God's patience and sense of justice is not inexhaustible, and he set a time limit on the necessary PoE from the very beginning of its becoming necessary.

We re close to the start of the final stage now, which will be brought in with Armageddon.
annanicole
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3/30/2015 8:02:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 7:37:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:
Bored and scrolling back through the forum, I saw this answer. The question itself is not why I bring it back up, but the answer that was given to it.

At 2/13/2015 3:41:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 2/13/2015 2:47:48 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:

We re close to the start of the final stage now, which will be brought in with Armageddon.

How did you go from "Can God make a rock so big that He can't lift it?" to the usual ominous warning about Armageddon?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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3/30/2015 8:13:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:02:46 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 3/30/2015 7:37:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:
Bored and scrolling back through the forum, I saw this answer. The question itself is not why I bring it back up, but the answer that was given to it.

At 2/13/2015 3:41:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 2/13/2015 2:47:48 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:

We re close to the start of the final stage now, which will be brought in with Armageddon.

How did you go from "Can God make a rock so big that He can't lift it?" to the usual ominous warning about Armageddon?

Read the post and you'l see, lol.

And it's only ghastly for those who, like you at present, are likely to be on the wrong side of it.

For the survivors it means freedom from Satan's influence and human rulership.

"The Good News of the Kingdom" is only good news for those who want it. For such as you it is very bad news indeed.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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3/30/2015 8:27:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:13:20 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:02:46 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 3/30/2015 7:37:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:
Bored and scrolling back through the forum, I saw this answer. The question itself is not why I bring it back up, but the answer that was given to it.

At 2/13/2015 3:41:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 2/13/2015 2:47:48 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:

We re close to the start of the final stage now, which will be brought in with Armageddon.

How did you go from "Can God make a rock so big that He can't lift it?" to the usual ominous warning about Armageddon?

Read the post and you'l see, lol.

And it's only ghastly for those who, like you at present, are likely to be on the wrong side of it.

For the survivors it means freedom from Satan's influence and human rulership.

"The Good News of the Kingdom" is only good news for those who want it. For such as you it is very bad news indeed.

It's no news at all - not good, not bad, not even indifferent. And the gospel of the kingdom has been around for 1,900+ years.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/30/2015 9:17:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 8:27:30 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:13:20 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/30/2015 8:02:46 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 3/30/2015 7:37:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:
Bored and scrolling back through the forum, I saw this answer. The question itself is not why I bring it back up, but the answer that was given to it.

At 2/13/2015 3:41:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 2/13/2015 2:47:48 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:

We re close to the start of the final stage now, which will be brought in with Armageddon.

How did you go from "Can God make a rock so big that He can't lift it?" to the usual ominous warning about Armageddon?

Read the post and you'l see, lol.

And it's only ghastly for those who, like you at present, are likely to be on the wrong side of it.

For the survivors it means freedom from Satan's influence and human rulership.

"The Good News of the Kingdom" is only good news for those who want it. For such as you it is very bad news indeed.

It's no news at all - not good, not bad, not even indifferent. And the gospel of the kingdom has been around for 1,900+ years.

Very true, but not everyone was there to hear it, and now is when it is needed more than ever before, now the Kingdom is soon to take over from all human governments.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/30/2015 10:04:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 6:59:26 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 3/30/2015 4:09:15 AM, mrsatan wrote:
At 3/30/2015 1:51:39 AM, Excalibur wrote:

If god is omnipotent, can he make a rock so big he couldn't lift it?

I hate it when people ask this question. This is an impossible question. There is no (yes/no) answer.

Personally, I love this question. The short answer is "yes", but it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't actually mean God isn't omnipotent, it just seems that way. The extended answer is actually quite simple, so I find it rather funny when people ask it like it's the ultimate God question.

Anyways, the answer in it's entirety is as follows:

"Yes, as he is omnipotent, God could create a rock so heavy/big that he couldn't lift it. Of course, IF he did, then he would no longer be omnipotent.".

Actually, the answer to the question (which is illogical BTW) is that the weight of a rock has nothing to do with God's ability to lift it. One might as well ask,

Can God make a rock so yellow that He couldn't lift it?

God does not lift anything by opposing gravity. God does not apply power. He can "lift" a ten million ton boulder as easily as he can lift a pebble. The boulder isn't more difficult for Him to lift and He does not need to "apply more power" to lift it.

The trick in the question is that it restricts God to "lifting" the way humans do, by opposing gravity with a greater force. The weight of the rock has nothing to do with God's ability to lift it. The weight is immaterial.

Prove it.
SNP1
Posts: 2,406
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3/30/2015 10:12:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 2:27:14 AM, Excalibur wrote:

Stop responding to BOG. He is a scitzo who thinks that god speaks through him. He predicted the world would end in January, then he made an excuse and changed it to beginning of February, then he made another excuse and changed it to March 24. Wonder what his next excuse will be.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/30/2015 10:14:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/30/2015 10:12:57 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/30/2015 2:27:14 AM, Excalibur wrote:

Stop responding to BOG. He is a scitzo who thinks that god speaks through him. He predicted the world would end in January, then he made an excuse and changed it to beginning of February, then he made another excuse and changed it to March 24. Wonder what his next excuse will be.

Surely it up to each of us whether or not we respond to BoG?

I know I rarely do, but I would never deny anyone else the right to if they wish.