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Jusus Said I AM!

Rant
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4/1/2015 7:17:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that John 8:58 should be translated as " . . . before Abraham was, I have been," not "I am." But what is it about saying, "I have been" that would motivate the Jews to want to kill Jesus? Was Jesus simply stating that He pre-existed? If so, they would have thought Him greatly deceived and not worthy of being killed. Do we see any prior account of anyone in the Bible being killed for claiming to pre-exist? No. It isn't blasphemy to state that you have pre-existed. It is, however, blasphemy to claim to be God;1 after all, that is what the Jews accused Jesus of claiming for Himself in John 10:31 when they again picked up stones to kill Him. What was it that Jesus said that motivated them in John 10:31 and in John 8:59 to want to kill Jesus?
From what I have seen, the greater number of Bibles translate John 8:58 as, "Before Abraham was, I am." The words "I am" are "ego eimi" in the Greek; and the construction is in the present tense. "I have been" is in the perfect tense in English, but it is the Greek of John 8:58 that is in the present tense and not the perfect tense (I have been). Remember, the Jews weren't mad at Jesus for speaking English (I have been) but for speaking Greek (I am). Therefore, what is it about the statement "Before Abraham was, I am" that would cause such anger and warrant Him being stoned to death?
Some say that in John 8, Jesus had said and done so many things that by the time Jesus said, "I am" in verse 58, the Jews simply snapped and tried to kill Him. But, that doesn't hold with the Jews' statement in John 10:33 where they tell Jesus the reason; it was for claiming to be God. So, again, what is it about Jesus saying, "Before Abraham was, I am" (or, "I have been") that was so volatile and worthy of death according to the Jews?
The most natural explanation I see is that Jesus was referring back to when Moses was at the burning bush and asked God what His name was. God said, "I am that I am. Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I am has sent me to you." (Exodus 3:14). If we were to consider this as an explanation, then it makes sense why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus since his statement "Before Abraham was, I am" would logically cause the Pharisees to think Jesus was claiming to be God--which is exactly what they stated later as the reason for them wanting to kill Him.
There are, however, those who say that Jesus could not have been referring to Exodus 3:14, or that there is no reason to refer Christ's statement to Exodus 3:14. But, if that is so, then what other explanation is there for the Jews' desire to kill Jesus? What else would generate such a violate reaction from the Jews? Is there any other explanation that is suitable? Remember, the Jews gave their own reason for their anger. They said to Jesus, " . . . You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:33).
Therefore, we need to ask the Jehovah's Witness in what verse is it that Jesus was claiming to be God? Or, in what verse was it that could be construed and misinterpreted by the Jews to think that Jesus was claiming to be God?
Finally, notice that the Jews absolutely denied that Jesus was God in flesh. Interestingly, so do the Jehovah's Witnesses. So, the Pharisees and the Jehovah's Witnesses are in agreement about who Jesus is not.
Rant
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4/1/2015 7:23:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Jehovah's Witness Bible called the New World Translation translates John 10:33 not as "You being a man make yourself out to be God," but as, "even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god." Notice the NWT says "a god", not "God." This is typical of the Watchtower Organization which seeks to obliterate any mention of Jesus' deity by altering the biblical text.

1.1901 ASV, makest thyself God
2.AMP, make Yourself [out to be] God
3.CEV, claiming to be God!"
4.Darby, makest thyself God
5.ESV, make yourself God
6.GLT, make Yourself God
7.Holman Bible, make Yourself God
8.KJ21, makest thyself God
9.KJV, makest thyself God
10.Modern KJV, make yourself God
11.MSG, calling yourself God
1.NAB, making yourself God
2.NASB, to be God
3.NIV, claim to be God
4.NKJV, make Yourself God
5.NLT, have made yourself God
6.Phillips, making yourself out to be God
7.RSV, make yourself God
8.WE, you say you are God
9.Webster's, makest thyself God"
10.WYC, makest thyself God
11.YLT, make thyself God

As you can see, out of 22 Bible versions, not one has "a god" translated as the Watchtower Organization does. Why? Because the Watchtower is biased against the deity of Christ and will take liberties to alter the English translation so as to suit its own theological needs.
Gentorev
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4/1/2015 7:23:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you think in the terms of one directional linear time, you will not understand that The Lord was saying through the one who he chose to speak in his name, "Before Abraham was in the Past, i am in the present.
bulproof
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4/1/2015 7:26:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So did Neil Diamond and so much better.
In fact we can actually here his voice singing it, not some concocted report created by people who never knew this mythical jesus if he ever existed anyway.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Rant
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4/1/2015 7:30:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
What was it that Jesus had said or done that caused the Jews to say that He was claiming to be God? Was it "I and the Father are one"? If so, why would that cause the Jews to want to kill Jesus? Perhaps it was something else. Maybe it was something Jesus said elsewhere that made them so angry.
There are only two places in John where the Jews wanted to kill Jesus with stones. Both of these occur after Jesus spoke and made a claim about Himself. The first was in John 8:58-59, and the second was in John 10:30-33. Here is the context of both verses:
1.John 8:56-59, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."
2.John 10:27-36, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Rant
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4/1/2015 7:36:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"
There is absolutely no reference to stones or stoning between John 8:59 and John 10:31; but in those two verses, the Jews responded to Jesus' words by wanting to kill Him. What was it that Jesus said in both cases that brought such a violent reaction? Here they are again . . .
1.John 8:58-59, "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him;
2.John 10:30-31, "I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
The first time the Jews wanted to kill Jesus was when He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." The second time wasn't until John 10:31 when they again wanted to kill Him after Jesus said, "I and the Father are one."
bulproof
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4/1/2015 7:38:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 7:26:04 AM, bulproof wrote:
So did Neil Diamond and so much better.
In fact we can actually here his voice singing it, not some concocted report created by people who never knew this mythical jesus if he ever existed anyway.
Here 'tis
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Rant
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4/1/2015 7:48:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I do not agree with the Jews that Jesus is not God. It is the Jehovah's Witnesses who agree with the Jews on this. Remember, the theology of the Jews is that Jesus is not God. Since I believe Jesus is God, I am not deriving my theology from them.
Rant
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4/1/2015 7:56:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

Of all the scripture that comes to mind, perhaps the saddest and most fearful of all is the very words of Jesus Himself found in Matthew 7 and verse 21 " 23.
Because they deny the deity of Jesus.
Gentorev
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4/1/2015 8:08:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 7:36:06 AM, Rant wrote:
32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"
There is absolutely no reference to stones or stoning between John 8:59 and John 10:31; but in those two verses, the Jews responded to Jesus' words by wanting to kill Him. What was it that Jesus said in both cases that brought such a violent reaction? Here they are again . . .
1.John 8:58-59, "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him;
2.John 10:30-31, "I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
The first time the Jews wanted to kill Jesus was when He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." The second time wasn't until John 10:31 when they again wanted to kill Him after Jesus said, "I and the Father are one."

Those were not the words of Jesus, but the words of God's only begotten Son, the lesser jhwh, who commanded Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own authority, what to say.

Hebrew 10: 5; When Enoch=Christ the anointed one, The Father of the post-flood body of mankind, was about to come into the world he said to God: "You do not want sacrifices and offerings, but you have prepared a body for me. You are not pleased with animal burned whole on the altar, or with sacrifices to take away sin. Then I said, 'Here I am to do your will O God, just as it is written of me in the book of the law.

Although, according to the Holy Scriptures, he does not descend and enter into the body of Jesus, until Elijah appears on earth and chooses the elect and chosen ones who will take the thrones that are prepared for them and rule as kings for a thousand years.

Once the required number of Jews and gentiles are gathered around the light body of Elijah, God's only begotten prophet will then descend and enter the temple that is the body of Jesus, where the Lord shall be treated with out rage and hung upon a tree, and the veil of that temple shall be torn, and the spirit of the Lord shall be poured out as fire, on the ancestors of the elect and chosen ones.
bornofgod
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4/1/2015 8:12:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 8:08:16 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 4/1/2015 7:36:06 AM, Rant wrote:
32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"
There is absolutely no reference to stones or stoning between John 8:59 and John 10:31; but in those two verses, the Jews responded to Jesus' words by wanting to kill Him. What was it that Jesus said in both cases that brought such a violent reaction? Here they are again . . .
1.John 8:58-59, "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him;
2.John 10:30-31, "I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
The first time the Jews wanted to kill Jesus was when He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." The second time wasn't until John 10:31 when they again wanted to kill Him after Jesus said, "I and the Father are one."

Those were not the words of Jesus, but the words of God's only begotten Son, the lesser jhwh, who commanded Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own authority, what to say.

Hebrew 10: 5; When Enoch=Christ the anointed one, The Father of the post-flood body of mankind, was about to come into the world he said to God: "You do not want sacrifices and offerings, but you have prepared a body for me. You are not pleased with animal burned whole on the altar, or with sacrifices to take away sin. Then I said, 'Here I am to do your will O God, just as it is written of me in the book of the law.

Although, according to the Holy Scriptures, he does not descend and enter into the body of Jesus, until Elijah appears on earth and chooses the elect and chosen ones who will take the thrones that are prepared for them and rule as kings for a thousand years.

Once the required number of Jews and gentiles are gathered around the light body of Elijah, God's only begotten prophet will then descend and enter the temple that is the body of Jesus, where the Lord shall be treated with out rage and hung upon a tree, and the veil of that temple shall be torn, and the spirit of the Lord shall be poured out as fire, on the ancestors of the elect and chosen ones. : :

The Son of God is God's thoughts that all us saints and prophets testified to in written and spoken form in earthly languages converted from God's thoughts.
Rant
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4/1/2015 8:16:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger"s voice." 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.
Rant
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4/1/2015 8:23:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Therefore Jesus said again, "Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. So does this read that Jesus is God> sure does. Enjoy
Rant
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4/1/2015 8:30:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
And I will leave you with this thought>

If we are truly a Christian, we are God"s sheep and we are in His sheepfold. It is God"s responsibility to keep us and God cannot fail at anything. We are His and He will not give up what belongs to Him.

Many so-called Christians think they can lose their salvation. I"ve met hundreds of them. No! No! No!

We cannot be in His sheepfold unless He is our Good Shepherd. We cannot leave the sheepfold without going over the Good Shepherd, and He is not going to allow that. We cannot be stolen from the sheepfold because we are under His protection, and again, He will not allow it.

No one, no thing, no circumstance can take from God what belongs to Him. If that were possible, then God is not God.
bornofgod
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4/1/2015 8:41:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 8:30:21 AM, Rant wrote:
And I will leave you with this thought>

If we are truly a Christian, we are God"s sheep and we are in His sheepfold. It is God"s responsibility to keep us and God cannot fail at anything. We are His and He will not give up what belongs to Him.

Many so-called Christians think they can lose their salvation. I"ve met hundreds of them. No! No! No!

We cannot be in His sheepfold unless He is our Good Shepherd. We cannot leave the sheepfold without going over the Good Shepherd, and He is not going to allow that. We cannot be stolen from the sheepfold because we are under His protection, and again, He will not allow it.

No one, no thing, no circumstance can take from God what belongs to Him. If that were possible, then God is not God. : :

God is not a flesh named Jesus. Jesus and all us saints and prophets are only the flesh that's used by our Creator to write and speak for Him. The flesh dies but the Spirit ( thoughts ) of God remains until the New Heaven and Earth begins with new flesh for man to use.

We are all born in the thoughts of God before we're formed in the flesh of this world. Those of us who are "born again" learn who we truly are in the thoughts of God.
Gentorev
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4/1/2015 8:43:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 7:56:34 AM, Rant wrote:
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

Of all the scripture that comes to mind, perhaps the saddest and most fearful of all is the very words of Jesus Himself found in Matthew 7 and verse 21 " 23.
Because they deny the deity of Jesus.

Those were not the words of Jesus, but the words of the Lord who chose Jesus from among the Israelites and sent him to speak in his name.
Electric-Eccentric
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4/1/2015 8:57:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
IF a person takes the so called bible/scriptures and they view it for what it is in 100% Truth and Honesty.

That would mean that they don't choose to believe that the bible/scriptures are like santa being Real.

There never was a Noah and a great flood, No Moses and the Red Sea, no talking snakes, walking on water, raising decayed dead bodies from the dead and other childish nonsense that the superstitious minded try and believe.

Now if we view the bible/scriptures as just a interesting collection of old stories that are the fiction that they are and we look at what the stories are saying we would find that the ONE Truth that scriptures speak of is the same as Jesus, Christ, the Way, the Life, God, god, Living Water, Water of Life and on and on.

So the statement Jesus Said I AM translates to:

The Truth said/says that I AM Truth
The Truth said/says that I AM Life
The Truth said/says that I AM Honest
The Truth said/says that I AM Grown up

It is all about growing up and leaving the childish ways of make believe and pretend realities behind as you would a diaper requirement.

If you want to meet the "modern example" of the Jesus of scriptures

here I AM

any questions?
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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4/1/2015 9:09:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 8:43:48 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 4/1/2015 7:56:34 AM, Rant wrote:
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?" Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

Of all the scripture that comes to mind, perhaps the saddest and most fearful of all is the very words of Jesus Himself found in Matthew 7 and verse 21 " 23.
Because they deny the deity of Jesus.

Those were not the words of Jesus, but the words of the Lord who chose Jesus from among the Israelites and sent him to speak in his name. : :

Your correct;

John 7
13: Yet for fear of the Jews no one spoke openly of him.
14: About the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught.
15: The Jews marveled at it, saying, "How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?"
16: So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me;
17: if any man's will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
18: He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood.

Jesus and the rest of us saints and prophets know the AUTHORITY who gives us the words in our mind to write and speak.
Gentorev
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4/1/2015 9:24:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 8:57:45 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
IF a person takes the so called bible/scriptures and they view it for what it is in 100% Truth and Honesty.

That would mean that they don't choose to believe that the bible/scriptures are like santa being Real.

There never was a Noah and a great flood, No Moses and the Red Sea, no talking snakes, walking on water, raising decayed dead bodies from the dead and other childish nonsense that the superstitious minded try and believe.

Now if we view the bible/scriptures as just a interesting collection of old stories that are the fiction that they are and we look at what the stories are saying we would find that the ONE Truth that scriptures speak of is the same as Jesus, Christ, the Way, the Life, God, god, Living Water, Water of Life and on and on.

So the statement Jesus Said I AM translates to:

The Truth said/says that I AM Truth
The Truth said/says that I AM Life
The Truth said/says that I AM Honest
The Truth said/says that I AM Grown up

It is all about growing up and leaving the childish ways of make believe and pretend realities behind as you would a diaper requirement.

If you want to meet the "modern example" of the Jesus of scriptures

here I AM

any questions?

Yes! Have you learned to use a toilet yet, or are you like those seagulls and fly in and crap on everyones post then fly away?
celestialtorahteacher
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4/1/2015 9:31:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
BOG, don't you say in your other posts that Jesus is a fraud making you an anti-Christ? Which is it?

As for John's Gospel, the only way to decifer it is via its Celestial Torah astrological interpretation because the Story as is, is just that, a story, one created to bring Jesus to life, to invoke his Spirit in the believer who never met the fellow. The New Testament writers certainly didn't but as writing honestly as we know the term wasn't in fashion for religious propagandists, they didn't tell people those details and were actually very likely themselves convinced they were, like BOG so thinks, I do too, that they were the Voice of God speaking spiritual truth. Even as they conducted typical Jewish "capturing" of pagan gods and religious ideas. "I Am" was the well-known appellation Isis used as several ancient "I Am" poems exist, far older than the Gospels. Isis is the one who had that inscription in her temple of worship way back in BC days, I forget what century, that bears the "I am the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last" that Revelation uses, as it uses Ishtar's Venus Morning Star imagery capturing two goddesses in Jesus who must be all things to all peoples, i.e. the earthly Face of God as the Son of Man, i.e. the earthly representative of the heavenly Man Sign of Aquarius, the bearer of Living Waters and the Humanitarian Archetype God favors.
Electric-Eccentric
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4/1/2015 9:38:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 9:04:03 AM, bulproof wrote:
Another one.

Are you by chance addressing EE?

Want to make sure that it's not a mistaken identity problem or worse.

If not just disregard this message with the other things that may bother you.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
celestialtorahteacher
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4/1/2015 9:41:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Once you understand Jesus in the Gospels represents the Man Sign as the Messiah in cosmic relationship forever with Saturn who symbolized EL (Canaanite for Saturn) who was the traditional "Ruler" of the Sign of Aquarius, the "Man" Sign in the Merkabah, the Chariot of God in Ezekiel composed of the 4 Fixed Signs, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius, Taurus, the Man is the only human representative, the others are still animals. The "Son of Man" term that Jesus used continually to describe himself means Jesus on earth represents the Man Sign in the heavens, which makes him Eternal, his image, his Sign is always in the heavens for everyone to see "riding on the clouds of heaven" which was ancient astrological code for the Milky Way. Put it all together astrologically and you get the basic Messianic Message from God is that God wants the Humanitarian Archetype to be prioritized as top place, "One Way" to the House of God, "Beth-EL" is through the Sign of Aquarius as you can only enter a House through one door facing East where the sun rises. This is the Sweat Lodge design as well.
MadCornishBiker
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4/1/2015 9:42:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 7:17:52 AM, Rant wrote:
The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that John 8:58 should be translated as " . . . before Abraham was, I have been," not "I am." But what is it about saying, "I have been" that would motivate the Jews to want to kill Jesus? Was Jesus simply stating that He pre-existed? If so, they would have thought Him greatly deceived and not worthy of being killed. Do we see any prior account of anyone in the Bible being killed for claiming to pre-exist? No. It isn't blasphemy to state that you have pre-existed. It is, however, blasphemy to claim to be God;1 after all, that is what the Jews accused Jesus of claiming for Himself in John 10:31 when they again picked up stones to kill Him. What was it that Jesus said that motivated them in John 10:31 and in John 8:59 to want to kill Jesus?
From what I have seen, the greater number of Bibles translate John 8:58 as, "Before Abraham was, I am." The words "I am" are "ego eimi" in the Greek; and the construction is in the present tense. "I have been" is in the perfect tense in English, but it is the Greek of John 8:58 that is in the present tense and not the perfect tense (I have been). Remember, the Jews weren't mad at Jesus for speaking English (I have been) but for speaking Greek (I am). Therefore, what is it about the statement "Before Abraham was, I am" that would cause such anger and warrant Him being stoned to death?
Some say that in John 8, Jesus had said and done so many things that by the time Jesus said, "I am" in verse 58, the Jews simply snapped and tried to kill Him. But, that doesn't hold with the Jews' statement in John 10:33 where they tell Jesus the reason; it was for claiming to be God. So, again, what is it about Jesus saying, "Before Abraham was, I am" (or, "I have been") that was so volatile and worthy of death according to the Jews?
The most natural explanation I see is that Jesus was referring back to when Moses was at the burning bush and asked God what His name was. God said, "I am that I am. Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I am has sent me to you." (Exodus 3:14). If we were to consider this as an explanation, then it makes sense why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus since his statement "Before Abraham was, I am" would logically cause the Pharisees to think Jesus was claiming to be God--which is exactly what they stated later as the reason for them wanting to kill Him.
There are, however, those who say that Jesus could not have been referring to Exodus 3:14, or that there is no reason to refer Christ's statement to Exodus 3:14. But, if that is so, then what other explanation is there for the Jews' desire to kill Jesus? What else would generate such a violate reaction from the Jews? Is there any other explanation that is suitable? Remember, the Jews gave their own reason for their anger. They said to Jesus, " . . . You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:33).
Therefore, we need to ask the Jehovah's Witness in what verse is it that Jesus was claiming to be God? Or, in what verse was it that could be construed and misinterpreted by the Jews to think that Jesus was claiming to be God?
Finally, notice that the Jews absolutely denied that Jesus was God in flesh. Interestingly, so do the Jehovah's Witnesses. So, the Pharisees and the Jehovah's Witnesses are in agreement about who Jesus is not.

There are two translations of John 8:58, both of which have their supporters.

That gives us the burden of working out which one fits in with the overall theme of scripture.

Trinitarians attempt to misuse it to prove that God and Christ are the same, a completely unscriptural and pagan teaching. Whichever version you prefer it was never intended by Christ or the Apostles to be misused in this way.

It simply states that God's son came into being long before Abraham, which is perfectly true since, as scripture tells us he was the only being Jehovah created all on his own, and therefore literally, as John 1:14 describes the Word, God's only begotten son.

In fact there is no reason to assume that Jesus was referring to Exodus 3:14, though even the accepted translation of that is doubted by some.

It has to be remembered that every translation we have was created by Unitarians, and with widely varying interest in honesty.

After all, how many have been honest enough to include God's name in the 7,000+ places it belongs, or how many have chosen to change it for LORD or Elohim?

See for instance the Concordant Literal Version's translation of Exodus 3:14:

CLV(i) 14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.

Or Rotherham's Emphasised Bible

Rotherham(i) 14 And God said unto Moses, I Will Become whatsoever I please, And he said"Thus, shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, I Will Become hath sent me unto you.

No mention of I Am in either of those.

Since there is so much disagreement, the only way to be sure that yu have the correct version is to learn the overall theme of scripture and see if what you believe causes contradictions, which in God's word cannot be allowed.

The ridiculous and pagan trinity teaching, not even introduced into the church since the late 4th century causes many contradictions with the multitude of scriptures which teach that God and Christ are very separate beings indeed and are truly father and son.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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4/1/2015 9:42:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 9:24:08 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 4/1/2015 8:57:45 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
IF a person takes the so called bible/scriptures and they view it for what it is in 100% Truth and Honesty.

That would mean that they don't choose to believe that the bible/scriptures are like santa being Real.

There never was a Noah and a great flood, No Moses and the Red Sea, no talking snakes, walking on water, raising decayed dead bodies from the dead and other childish nonsense that the superstitious minded try and believe.

Now if we view the bible/scriptures as just a interesting collection of old stories that are the fiction that they are and we look at what the stories are saying we would find that the ONE Truth that scriptures speak of is the same as Jesus, Christ, the Way, the Life, God, god, Living Water, Water of Life and on and on.

So the statement Jesus Said I AM translates to:

The Truth said/says that I AM Truth
The Truth said/says that I AM Life
The Truth said/says that I AM Honest
The Truth said/says that I AM Grown up

It is all about growing up and leaving the childish ways of make believe and pretend realities behind as you would a diaper requirement.

If you want to meet the "modern example" of the Jesus of scriptures

here I AM

any questions?

Yes! Have you learned to use a toilet yet, or are you like those seagulls and fly in and crap on everyones post then fly away?

I sit upon earthly thrones far less then you entertain thoughts of Truth.

Does that answer your question?
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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4/1/2015 9:46:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Old World EL Elyon, God Most High and New World Wakan Tanka, are the same Grandfather God of All Things as both are symbolized by the same totem animal: the White Bull as in the Book of Enoch, the White Bull of Heaven and the White Buffalo Bull of Native America.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/1/2015 9:53:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/1/2015 7:23:03 AM, Rant wrote:
The Jehovah's Witness Bible called the New World Translation translates John 10:33 not as "You being a man make yourself out to be God," but as, "even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god." Notice the NWT says "a god", not "God." This is typical of the Watchtower Organization which seeks to obliterate any mention of Jesus' deity by altering the biblical text.

1.1901 ASV, makest thyself God
2.AMP, make Yourself [out to be] God
3.CEV, claiming to be God!"
4.Darby, makest thyself God
5.ESV, make yourself God
6.GLT, make Yourself God
7.Holman Bible, make Yourself God
8.KJ21, makest thyself God
9.KJV, makest thyself God
10.Modern KJV, make yourself God
11.MSG, calling yourself God
1.NAB, making yourself God
2.NASB, to be God
3.NIV, claim to be God
4.NKJV, make Yourself God
5.NLT, have made yourself God
6.Phillips, making yourself out to be God
7.RSV, make yourself God
8.WE, you say you are God
9.Webster's, makest thyself God"
10.WYC, makest thyself God
11.YLT, make thyself God


As you can see, out of 22 Bible versions, not one has "a god" translated as the Watchtower Organization does. Why? Because the Watchtower is biased against the deity of Christ and will take liberties to alter the English translation so as to suit its own theological needs.

Can you tell me what significant difference there is between those?

You are trying hard to make an argument where there is none.

The whole point of that passage is that Christ was being falsely accused of making himself to be something other than God's son, which he never did, and nor did the Apostles.

Read the letters in the Christian Greek Scriptures, in any translation you wish, preferably more than one, and ask yourselves:

How many times are the Apostles praising Christ for the salvation provided for us by his sacrifice?

How many times are they in fact praising "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" or similar wording for such thing?

You will find that consistently the Apostles praised Jehovah and recognised that he was not only the father of the one who became the Christ, but also his God, even long after his resurrection.

Just as, in fact, Christ himself did, after his resurrection. John 20:17
ASV(i) 17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

Readers will have noticed that I rarely use the NWT.

Why?

Because despite the "smoke and mirrors of bigots and liars, there is no need to because everything the NWT teaches, is found in every other translation there is.

That is why the JWs encourage the use of more than one translation for comparison purposes, and so do I.

This whole topic is based on nothing more than the fact that the JWs, and in fact scripture itself, continually expose the hypocrisy and lies of those who support such Apostate teachings as these.

And as you have seen, it uses"Smoke and mirrors" to do it's work.