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Why They Are Mad: Colonialism

Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
After WWI and WWII, both ended the fall of the Caliphate, and division of the Muslim land by the British and French. This included the support of political leaders in Muslim lands for their own interests, and an agreement to take Palestine from the Muslims and establish Israel. Even the state of Lebanon was never an independent state ever until this division.

As a result, radical movements in Muslim lands rose up to overthrow the political influence and economic control that was being forced upon them by leaders who the West themselves aided and supported to rule the land for their own interests.

How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,287
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4/5/2015 2:58:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
After WWI and WWII, both ended the fall of the Caliphate, and division of the Muslim land by the British and French. This included the support of political leaders in Muslim lands for their own interests, and an agreement to take Palestine from the Muslims and establish Israel. Even the state of Lebanon was never an independent state ever until this division.

As a result, radical movements in Muslim lands rose up to overthrow the political influence and economic control that was being forced upon them by leaders who the West themselves aided and supported to rule the land for their own interests.

How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions?

Yeah, most people in the West have no idea who Aflaq, Hussein bin Ali, or Ibn Saud are. The Arab Revolt, and the subsequent backstabbing and carving up of the Middle East by the West into Mandates simply isn't mentioned in the vast majority of history classes.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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4/5/2015 3:01:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
After WWI and WWII, both ended the fall of the Caliphate, and division of the Muslim land by the British and French. This included the support of political leaders in Muslim lands for their own interests, and an agreement to take Palestine from the Muslims and establish Israel. Even the state of Lebanon was never an independent state ever until this division.

As a result, radical movements in Muslim lands rose up to overthrow the political influence and economic control that was being forced upon them by leaders who the West themselves aided and supported to rule the land for their own interests.

How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions?

just minutes ago i was reading the book of William Blum -
America's Deadliest Export: Democracy - The Truth About US Foreign Policy and Everything Else.

all this stuff is explained in detail about american foreign policy causing destruction and havoc all over the muslim lands, brainwashing americans of "the good war" to defend itself so they can exploit and steal resources from these lands dubmsh1t USA may allah judge them equally for their crimes they only have sh1t in their heads. i really recommending to read this book very enlightening about whats going on.
Never fart near dog
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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4/5/2015 3:12:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 2:58:12 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
After WWI and WWII, both ended the fall of the Caliphate, and division of the Muslim land by the British and French. This included the support of political leaders in Muslim lands for their own interests, and an agreement to take Palestine from the Muslims and establish Israel. Even the state of Lebanon was never an independent state ever until this division.

As a result, radical movements in Muslim lands rose up to overthrow the political influence and economic control that was being forced upon them by leaders who the West themselves aided and supported to rule the land for their own interests.

How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions?

Yeah, most people in the West have no idea who Aflaq, Hussein bin Ali, or Ibn Saud are. The Arab Revolt, and the subsequent backstabbing and carving up of the Middle East by the West into Mandates simply isn't mentioned in the vast majority of history classes.

Response: Very true. If anything is ever mentioned in the media, it never portrays colonialism and how the Muslim land was politically divided. All that is mentioned in America is the threat of terrorism by Muslims, and never about America and the West own history and involvement. It is astounding how American accept the fact that it's own native people were almost wiped out by Europens to gain control of America, then committed a slave trade for and slavery for hundreds of years from Africa, yet somehow think that when these same people went into the middle East, they were the victims and not the Muslims.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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4/5/2015 3:16:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 3:01:19 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:

just minutes ago i was reading the book of William Blum -
America's Deadliest Export: Democracy - The Truth About US Foreign Policy and Everything Else.

all this stuff is explained in detail about american foreign policy causing destruction and havoc all over the muslim lands, brainwashing americans of "the good war" to defend itself so they can exploit and steal resources from these lands dubmsh1t USA may allah judge them equally for their crimes they only have sh1t in their heads. i really recommending to read this book very enlightening about whats going on.

Response: I haven't come acroos this particular book, but I do have a few similar books in my collection as well as documentaries. Interestingly enough, they are Western or American writers and historians, all saying the same thing about the imperialistic views of the West and how colonial practices were used to carry them out all over the world, including the Middle East.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,287
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4/5/2015 3:23:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 3:12:25 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/5/2015 2:58:12 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
After WWI and WWII, both ended the fall of the Caliphate, and division of the Muslim land by the British and French. This included the support of political leaders in Muslim lands for their own interests, and an agreement to take Palestine from the Muslims and establish Israel. Even the state of Lebanon was never an independent state ever until this division.

As a result, radical movements in Muslim lands rose up to overthrow the political influence and economic control that was being forced upon them by leaders who the West themselves aided and supported to rule the land for their own interests.

How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions?

Yeah, most people in the West have no idea who Aflaq, Hussein bin Ali, or Ibn Saud are. The Arab Revolt, and the subsequent backstabbing and carving up of the Middle East by the West into Mandates simply isn't mentioned in the vast majority of history classes.

Response: Very true. If anything is ever mentioned in the media, it never portrays colonialism and how the Muslim land was politically divided. All that is mentioned in America is the threat of terrorism by Muslims, and never about America and the West own history and involvement. It is astounding how American accept the fact that it's own native people were almost wiped out by Europens to gain control of America, then committed a slave trade for and slavery for hundreds of years from Africa, yet somehow think that when these same people went into the middle East, they were the victims and not the Muslims.

I think that the West did in the Middle East what the Soviets did in the Fergana Valley and the Caucasus, just on a much larger scale: the division of an area into nations along lines which are drawn to intentionally encourage irredentism and ethnic conflict. This cripples the region and allows the former colonial power to continue projecting power without much pushback.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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4/5/2015 3:33:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 3:23:12 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/5/2015 3:12:25 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/5/2015 2:58:12 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
After WWI and WWII, both ended the fall of the Caliphate, and division of the Muslim land by the British and French. This included the support of political leaders in Muslim lands for their own interests, and an agreement to take Palestine from the Muslims and establish Israel. Even the state of Lebanon was never an independent state ever until this division.

As a result, radical movements in Muslim lands rose up to overthrow the political influence and economic control that was being forced upon them by leaders who the West themselves aided and supported to rule the land for their own interests.

How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions?

Yeah, most people in the West have no idea who Aflaq, Hussein bin Ali, or Ibn Saud are. The Arab Revolt, and the subsequent backstabbing and carving up of the Middle East by the West into Mandates simply isn't mentioned in the vast majority of history classes.

Response: Very true. If anything is ever mentioned in the media, it never portrays colonialism and how the Muslim land was politically divided. All that is mentioned in America is the threat of terrorism by Muslims, and never about America and the West own history and involvement. It is astounding how American accept the fact that it's own native people were almost wiped out by Europens to gain control of America, then committed a slave trade for and slavery for hundreds of years from Africa, yet somehow think that when these same people went into the middle East, they were the victims and not the Muslims.

I think that the West did in the Middle East what the Soviets did in the Fergana Valley and the Caucasus, just on a much larger scale: the division of an area into nations along lines which are drawn to intentionally encourage irredentism and ethnic conflict. This cripples the region and allows the former colonial power to continue projecting power without much pushback.

Response: I agree. In fact, I cannot fault them. They came up with a scheme and was successful. As a ruler of an empire or Nation who wants to stay in power, these acts are expected. However, I find it amazing how people are so blind to the facts of colonialism when the information is not only out there but easily accessible. One can look up the Sykes picot Act and it is well documented.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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4/5/2015 8:15:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Many will also quote statistics about how many Muslim States are backwards and far behind in regards to education, wealth, literacy, etc. and suffer greatly from poverty and oppression of women. What they fail to say or purposely leave out is that every Muslim state in existence was once under Western rule and prior to being colonized, none of these conditions existed and the Muslims were actually the wealthiest and most educated. So if they were in great condition before colonialism, and now are in bad condition only after Western rule, then it becomes more clear how colonialism is the direct reason for the conflict and conditions the Middle East.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/5/2015 8:52:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions?

I don't know. 1200 years of theocratic imperialism, faction-fighting and persecution prior to Western colonialism?

I agree that Eurocolonialism and US hegemonism are nothing to be proud of. But Islam is a religion of peace only under submission to Islam, and only under the ruling ethnicity of the day -- be it Arab, Persian, Turk, Javanese or Pashtun. Islam has never been great at egalitarianism, and its pluralism only operates under monistic ethnic rule. Its two great attempts at supporting secular politics -- modern Turkey and modern Indonesia -- are only secular under the dominance of religious thought and sensibility.

It may mature from that, Fatihah, as other faiths have done. But such maturation is typically slow. Do you expect to see it in your lifetime? I confess, I do not.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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4/5/2015 9:00:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 3:23:12 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I think that the West did in the Middle East what the Soviets did in the Fergana Valley and the Caucasus, just on a much larger scale: the division of an area into nations along lines which are drawn to intentionally encourage irredentism and ethnic conflict. This cripples the region and allows the former colonial power to continue projecting power without much pushback.

- There is a similar situation in Azerbaijan, & in most muslim countries:
> Morocco vs Algeria.
> Egypt vs Sudan.
> India vs Pakistan.
> India vs Bangladesh.
> The whole Middle East.
> The countries of Balkan: Yugoslavia, Kosovo. . .
. . .
- Indeed, there is an Arabic proverb: "farriq' tasud" (literally: divide and you will become master) similar to: "divide & conquer". It's a very effective policy, as History has proven throughout. But now they are attempting the opposite, if westerners keep doing what they are doing, they will eventually push arabs & muslims to unite under the same banners, & I doubt they wish for that to happen.
> Arabs are the second largest panethnicity of the world (420 millions), imagine if they unite! One language, one religion (mostly), one culture, one cause, one History, one ethnicity (more or less). . .
> Muslims combined are more numerous than all the population of the West combined. The West has to seriously consider their long term stability, which they haven't been doing so far. They can start of by appointing serious historians as politicians instead of greedy imperialists.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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4/5/2015 9:56:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 8:52:21 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions?

I don't know. 1200 years of theocratic imperialism, faction-fighting and persecution prior to Western colonialism?

I agree that Eurocolonialism and US hegemonism are nothing to be proud of. But Islam is a religion of peace only under submission to Islam, and only under the ruling ethnicity of the day -- be it Arab, Persian, Turk, Javanese or Pashtun. Islam has never been great at egalitarianism, and its pluralism only operates under monistic ethnic rule. Its two great attempts at supporting secular politics -- modern Turkey and modern Indonesia -- are only secular under the dominance of religious thought and sensibility.

It may mature from that, Fatihah, as other faiths have done. But such maturation is typically slow. Do you expect to see it in your lifetime? I confess, I do not.

Response: No teaching in Islam goes against peace. So Islam is a religion of peace, which is demonstrated by its teachings. Those who suggest otherwise try to use scripture to demonstrate so by quoting violent verses, yet no verse says so attack first or fight those who are peaceful, while there are verses clearly stating not to use force and not to fight those who are peaceful. Therefore the context of fighting clearly refers to self defense or removing oppression, since it forbids fighting those who are peaceful (8:61).

This is when the argument "but look at the Muslim countries" are used, when one fails to show that Islam itself teaches against peace. Yet when all of history shows that Muslim states fell behind in regards to economic and other advancements ONLY after colonialism shows that it was colonial efforts by the West that caused the severe conditions in the Middle East.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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4/5/2015 10:52:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 2:43:12 PM, Fatihah wrote:
After WWI and WWII, both ended the fall of the Caliphate, and division of the Muslim land by the British and French. This included the support of political leaders in Muslim lands for their own interests, and an agreement to take Palestine from the Muslims and establish Israel. Even the state of Lebanon was never an independent state ever until this division.

As a result, radical movements in Muslim lands rose up to overthrow the political influence and economic control that was being forced upon them by leaders who the West themselves aided and supported to rule the land for their own interests.

How do people today even think for a second that Islam or religion is to blame for the current radical nature and fighting in Muslim lands today, and say nothing about the significant role colonialism by the West played into these conditions? : :

Christians don't understand that God used their religion to extend the Roman Empire and conquer much of the world. Rome's Vatican used the Roman Catholic Church members and European nations militaries to go out and steal land from the North, South and Central Americas, Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand, and anywhere that they could find land and natural building materials to build their false gods on.

They're still trying to conquer the whole earth for themselves with their false gospels and their false triune god concept. Most Muslims can see this conquering Babylonian attitude of Christians that the beastly thoughts of God forced them to do. It's no wonder the Muslims kept fighting back at these Christians who keep coming into their countries to try dominate them and steal their land and building materials. Oil is a product they need to build their plastic false gods today through their corporations.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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4/12/2015 11:22:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Saddam Hussein was supported by America and its allies to prevent other regimes in areas such as Kuwait and neighboring countries from taking over because they feared an attack on America if they do so. So America would arm Saddam and American troops fought along. So while many want to blame Islam as an excuse, America and the West are in the center of it all every time.