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How do you separate a person from his thought

Electric-Eccentric
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4/5/2015 4:34:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
How do you separate a person from his thoughts?

The answer is easy, yet not depending on WHO is doing the thinking.

The proof is all around us and very hard to deny and reject so it makes people all the more desperate in their means of escape from what bothers their inner denial.

Superstition and it's concepts and the mindsets it causes is what separates the many that follow deceptions and lies called good from their own personal thoughts and thinking. They become programed like talking parrots where they can say things that they haven't a clue as to what it's deeper meaning are as they don't even understand the simple stuff.

Same with those little programed deceived brainwashed children with their santa and such. You just follow the rituals and say the magic words and all your dreams will come true.

Most want to try and avoid the responsibilities for their own personal thoughts and actions by seeking a scape goat of some sort that they can deceive themselves and any others into believing as if all believe in something then it becomes a Truth and Reality.

Believe in santa, the tooth fairy, easter bunny and such and you will get presents, candy and MONEY.

As these brainwashed programed superstitious minded children grow larger in size they just replace their fictions of the past with new more adult type ones.

Very few do their own personal thinking and take responsibility for there thoughts and actions and don't waste any thought and time on the make believe and pretend realities that are popular with this earthly world.

Free will choice is about being responsible for your own thoughts that YOU choose to embrace or reject.

I AM free from the superstitious concepts and nonsense that most choose in it's many forms to follow and try and believe in.

Why waste my TIME with make believe and pretend reality when I can LIVE in paradise in the NOW. I find it much better then the Hell that most choose with their own personal free will choices.

the dog did it said the pretty christian girl to the cute bad boy.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Gentorev
Posts: 2,907
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4/5/2015 7:14:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 4:34:21 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
How do you separate a person from his thoughts?

The answer is easy, yet not depending on WHO is doing the thinking.

The proof is all around us and very hard to deny and reject so it makes people all the more desperate in their means of escape from what bothers their inner denial.

Superstition and it's concepts and the mindsets it causes is what separates the many that follow deceptions and lies called good from their own personal thoughts and thinking. They become programed like talking parrots where they can say things that they haven't a clue as to what it's deeper meaning are as they don't even understand the simple stuff.

Same with those little programed deceived brainwashed children with their santa and such. You just follow the rituals and say the magic words and all your dreams will come true.

Most want to try and avoid the responsibilities for their own personal thoughts and actions by seeking a scape goat of some sort that they can deceive themselves and any others into believing as if all believe in something then it becomes a Truth and Reality.

Believe in santa, the tooth fairy, easter bunny and such and you will get presents, candy and MONEY.

As these brainwashed programed superstitious minded children grow larger in size they just replace their fictions of the past with new more adult type ones.

Very few do their own personal thinking and take responsibility for there thoughts and actions and don't waste any thought and time on the make believe and pretend realities that are popular with this earthly world.

Free will choice is about being responsible for your own thoughts that YOU choose to embrace or reject.

I AM free from the superstitious concepts and nonsense that most choose in it's many forms to follow and try and believe in.

Why waste my TIME with make believe and pretend reality when I can LIVE in paradise in the NOW. I find it much better then the Hell that most choose with their own personal free will choices.

the dog did it said the pretty christian girl to the cute bad boy.

The thoughts of a person cannot be seen, those thoughts can only be revealed to you in the words that the person speaks, and those words are the expression of the Mind that is that person. Separate the mind=thoughts from that body and you create a mindless ZOMBI.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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4/5/2015 8:00:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You are sounding like Saint Brad and a few of the others that follow your brand of superstitious nonsense.

What you wrote just goes in a circle and doesn't really say anything of substance.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/7/2015 9:05:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 4:34:21 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
How do you separate a person from his thoughts?

The answer is easy, yet not depending on WHO is doing the thinking.

I am reading your thoughts on the other side of the world because you sent them to me. Therefore they are separate from you since you are not here with me but your thoughts are.
The thoughts of a person can easily be seen when they write them down. Obviously the person needs to write or speak their thoughts so others can see or hear them.
People pass away but their written thoughts do not pass away or die with them. They live on as long as the living keep those thoughts alive and recycle them.

When those whose minds are stuck in the rut of superstitious thinking train their children and future generations to think the same as they do, those thoughts trap people in the realm of fiction and fantasy from which they have no clue how to escape. Most don't even want to leave that place of fiction and fantasy because they love it more than the reality they are constantly trying to escape.
Most want to end up living happily ever after just like in all fairy tales.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/7/2015 9:13:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 7:14:54 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 4/5/2015 4:34:21 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
How do you separate a person from his thoughts?

The answer is easy, yet not depending on WHO is doing the thinking.

The proof is all around us and very hard to deny and reject so it makes people all the more desperate in their means of escape from what bothers their inner denial.

Superstition and it's concepts and the mindsets it causes is what separates the many that follow deceptions and lies called good from their own personal thoughts and thinking. They become programed like talking parrots where they can say things that they haven't a clue as to what it's deeper meaning are as they don't even understand the simple stuff.

Same with those little programed deceived brainwashed children with their santa and such. You just follow the rituals and say the magic words and all your dreams will come true.

Most want to try and avoid the responsibilities for their own personal thoughts and actions by seeking a scape goat of some sort that they can deceive themselves and any others into believing as if all believe in something then it becomes a Truth and Reality.

Believe in santa, the tooth fairy, easter bunny and such and you will get presents, candy and MONEY.

As these brainwashed programed superstitious minded children grow larger in size they just replace their fictions of the past with new more adult type ones.

Very few do their own personal thinking and take responsibility for there thoughts and actions and don't waste any thought and time on the make believe and pretend realities that are popular with this earthly world.

Free will choice is about being responsible for your own thoughts that YOU choose to embrace or reject.

I AM free from the superstitious concepts and nonsense that most choose in it's many forms to follow and try and believe in.

Why waste my TIME with make believe and pretend reality when I can LIVE in paradise in the NOW. I find it much better then the Hell that most choose with their own personal free will choices.

the dog did it said the pretty christian girl to the cute bad boy.

The thoughts of a person cannot be seen, those thoughts can only be revealed to you in the words that the person speaks, and those words are the expression of the Mind that is that person. Separate the mind=thoughts from that body and you create a mindless ZOMBI.

Then how can I be seeing your thoughts in this post if you can only reveal them through speaking? Have you not just revealed them by writing them down?
Some people are mindless Zombies even when they retain their thoughts in their own minds.
They should learn to think before they separate their thoughts from themselves.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/7/2015 10:49:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/5/2015 4:34:21 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
How do you separate a person from his thoughts?

The answer is easy, yet not depending on WHO is doing the thinking.

The proof is all around us and very hard to deny and reject so it makes people all the more desperate in their means of escape from what bothers their inner denial.

Superstition and it's concepts and the mindsets it causes is what separates the many that follow deceptions and lies called good from their own personal thoughts and thinking. They become programed like talking parrots where they can say things that they haven't a clue as to what it's deeper meaning are as they don't even understand the simple stuff.

Same with those little programed deceived brainwashed children with their santa and such. You just follow the rituals and say the magic words and all your dreams will come true.

Most want to try and avoid the responsibilities for their own personal thoughts and actions by seeking a scape goat of some sort that they can deceive themselves and any others into believing as if all believe in something then it becomes a Truth and Reality.

Believe in santa, the tooth fairy, easter bunny and such and you will get presents, candy and MONEY.

As these brainwashed programed superstitious minded children grow larger in size they just replace their fictions of the past with new more adult type ones.

Very few do their own personal thinking and take responsibility for there thoughts and actions and don't waste any thought and time on the make believe and pretend realities that are popular with this earthly world.

Free will choice is about being responsible for your own thoughts that YOU choose to embrace or reject.

I AM free from the superstitious concepts and nonsense that most choose in it's many forms to follow and try and believe in.

Why waste my TIME with make believe and pretend reality when I can LIVE in paradise in the NOW. I find it much better then the Hell that most choose with their own personal free will choices.

the dog did it said the pretty christian girl to the cute bad boy.

It doesn't appear like you understood or answered the question you yourself raised. It might be because you haven't put too much thought into it before asking the question or because you simply took it from my post# 171 "New Moderator Update" 4/5/2015 3:34:08 PM

Where I wrote:"How do you separate a person from his thoughts?"

The question was asked to show how you could not separate a person from his thoughts because when you criticize someone for saying something absurd/stupid you are also making the person look ridiculous,
Now read your own OP and see how irrelevant your rantings were to the same question you asked.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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4/7/2015 11:06:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 9:05:46 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/5/2015 4:34:21 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
How do you separate a person from his thoughts?

The answer is easy, yet not depending on WHO is doing the thinking.

I am reading your thoughts on the other side of the world because you sent them to me. Therefore they are separate from you since you are not here with me but your thoughts are.
The thoughts of a person can easily be seen when they write them down. Obviously the person needs to write or speak their thoughts so others can see or hear them.
People pass away but their written thoughts do not pass away or die with them. They live on as long as the living keep those thoughts alive and recycle them.

When those whose minds are stuck in the rut of superstitious thinking train their children and future generations to think the same as they do, those thoughts trap people in the realm of fiction and fantasy from which they have no clue how to escape. Most don't even want to leave that place of fiction and fantasy because they love it more than the reality they are constantly trying to escape.
Most want to end up living happily ever after just like in all fairy tales. : :

Body language is one of the strongest languages we can observe in this world but this language confuses most people. The body always does what our Creator planned for it to do but the thoughts don't always go along with what the body actually does. So observe the body language to see what God has prepared for it to do and don't always trust the words from the mind.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/7/2015 11:47:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Sharing thoughts with the symbols we call words only sends a message to the receiver, it is not the thought itself. My mind tries to replicate the concepts and chains of reasoning your message imparts but those thoughts them become mine, similar to yours but not identical since I had to translate your symbols into my way of thinking.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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4/7/2015 12:17:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Why you cannot separate a person from his thoughts. More people are killed or ostracized for what they think and believe than for their actions.

Jesus thought he was a messiah. He was killed for what he believed/thought he was.. He was not killed for what he did because he fed the hungry, healed the sick etc.etc.

"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/10/2015 1:13:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 11:06:31 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:05:46 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/5/2015 4:34:21 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
How do you separate a person from his thoughts?

The answer is easy, yet not depending on WHO is doing the thinking.

I am reading your thoughts on the other side of the world because you sent them to me. Therefore they are separate from you since you are not here with me but your thoughts are.
The thoughts of a person can easily be seen when they write them down. Obviously the person needs to write or speak their thoughts so others can see or hear them.
People pass away but their written thoughts do not pass away or die with them. They live on as long as the living keep those thoughts alive and recycle them.

When those whose minds are stuck in the rut of superstitious thinking train their children and future generations to think the same as they do, those thoughts trap people in the realm of fiction and fantasy from which they have no clue how to escape. Most don't even want to leave that place of fiction and fantasy because they love it more than the reality they are constantly trying to escape.
Most want to end up living happily ever after just like in all fairy tales. : :

Body language is one of the strongest languages we can observe in this world but this language confuses most people. The body always does what our Creator planned for it to do but the thoughts don't always go along with what the body actually does. So observe the body language to see what God has prepared for it to do and don't always trust the words from the mind.

You seem to be confused by most things Brad. Obviously your mind and body are not connected properly since you cannot even think for yourself. You really should make an effort to think before you write.
What about people who are disabled in body, eg paralyzed from the neck down? They have no body language to observe since their body cannot move.
What about people who blind and cannot see any body language at all? It makes no difference what anyones body does because they cannot observe the body language anyway.
What about on the internet in forums like this where we don't even see the body of the people we are communicating with and only have the written word as a method of communication? We cannot even hear intonations of the words or see the facial expressions.
At least your suggestion to "don't always trust the words from the mind" makes perfect sense. All readers should apply that to your written words and not trust them unless they find them to be trustworthy, realistic and true. Your own mind leads you astray.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/10/2015 1:30:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 11:47:49 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Sharing thoughts with the symbols we call words only sends a message to the receiver, it is not the thought itself. My mind tries to replicate the concepts and chains of reasoning your message imparts but those thoughts them become mine, similar to yours but not identical since I had to translate your symbols into my way of thinking.

That is exactly how meanings of messages get lost in translation or interpretation even when people are speaking and writing the same language.
Some can obviously connect on the same wavelength with a clear line and others simply seem incapable of connecting with each other on the same wavelength and end up worlds apart, misunderstanding each other and not communicating properly with one another.

Take as an example, the thought that God is real vs the thought that God is not real.
Those are simply general thoughts in this world which not one person can lay individual claim to owning or inventing. People adopt those thoughts and beliefs as their own but they did not originate in their individual minds. The thoughts and beliefs originated from society in general and both are offered to people in this world through various teachings, reasoning etc.
Those opposite thoughts, ideas, concepts, can be in my mind and anyone elses mind at the same time. Are they my thoughts or am I separate from them due to the same thoughts being in society in general and will still be in society in general after I die?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/10/2015 2:06:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 12:17:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Why you cannot separate a person from his thoughts. More people are killed or ostracized for what they think and believe than for their actions.

What makes you believe MORE people are killed or ostracized for what they think and believe than for their actions
Do you have some kind of statistics to support this theory of yours or is it just a presumption off the top of your head based on nothing but sheer imagination?
Besides, even if it was true, it does not explain WHY you think you cannot separate a person from their thoughts.
You could kill the person but the thought that they conveyed which annoyed you would still annoy you. How are you going to kill that thought which annoys you when the person who you felt was responsible for injecting the thought into your head is already dead?

Jesus thought he was a messiah. He was killed for what he believed/thought he was.. He was not killed for what he did because he fed the hungry, healed the sick etc.etc.

Jesus is a story book character. The death of a story book character is irrelevant as any kind of statistic in real life.

"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)

What do you learn from this story besides that a man claimed to be God and the story started a new religion called Christianity ?
Many people today also claim to be gods, prophets of gods, messengers of gods or the voices of gods. I don't see or hear of anyone killing them for their claims. Mostly those kind of people, when diagnosed as insane are placed in institutions where professionals attempt to treat their insanity.
As for being ostracized for what one believes... all people can claim to be rejected by those who believe the opposite to what they do. Birds of a feather flock together and claim the other flocks ostracize them. It makes them feel unique or special like spiritual martyrs or something chosen out of the ordinary. People like to believe they are unique and special but in reality we are all much alike in many ways.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/10/2015 8:35:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:30:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:47:49 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Sharing thoughts with the symbols we call words only sends a message to the receiver, it is not the thought itself. My mind tries to replicate the concepts and chains of reasoning your message imparts but those thoughts them become mine, similar to yours but not identical since I had to translate your symbols into my way of thinking.

That is exactly how meanings of messages get lost in translation or interpretation even when people are speaking and writing the same language.
Some can obviously connect on the same wavelength with a clear line and others simply seem incapable of connecting with each other on the same wavelength and end up worlds apart, misunderstanding each other and not communicating properly with one another.

Take as an example, the thought that God is real vs the thought that God is not real.
Those are simply general thoughts in this world which not one person can lay individual claim to owning or inventing. People adopt those thoughts and beliefs as their own but they did not originate in their individual minds. The thoughts and beliefs originated from society in general and both are offered to people in this world through various teachings, reasoning etc.
Those opposite thoughts, ideas, concepts, can be in my mind and anyone elses mind at the same time. Are they my thoughts or am I separate from them due to the same thoughts being in society in general and will still be in society in general after I die?

Those are statements of belief, which anyone can have. Many people can hold the same belief and espouse that belief but their thoughts remain firmly contained in their living brain and cannot be separated. Life is not a Harry Potter book where we can simply take thoughts out of our brains and put them elsewhere.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/12/2015 8:26:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 8:35:28 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:30:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:47:49 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Sharing thoughts with the symbols we call words only sends a message to the receiver, it is not the thought itself. My mind tries to replicate the concepts and chains of reasoning your message imparts but those thoughts them become mine, similar to yours but not identical since I had to translate your symbols into my way of thinking.

That is exactly how meanings of messages get lost in translation or interpretation even when people are speaking and writing the same language.
Some can obviously connect on the same wavelength with a clear line and others simply seem incapable of connecting with each other on the same wavelength and end up worlds apart, misunderstanding each other and not communicating properly with one another.

Take as an example, the thought that God is real vs the thought that God is not real.
Those are simply general thoughts in this world which not one person can lay individual claim to owning or inventing. People adopt those thoughts and beliefs as their own but they did not originate in their individual minds. The thoughts and beliefs originated from society in general and both are offered to people in this world through various teachings, reasoning etc.
Those opposite thoughts, ideas, concepts, can be in my mind and anyone elses mind at the same time. Are they my thoughts or am I separate from them due to the same thoughts being in society in general and will still be in society in general after I die?

Those are statements of belief, which anyone can have. Many people can hold the same belief and espouse that belief but their thoughts remain firmly contained in their living brain and cannot be separated. Life is not a Harry Potter book where we can simply take thoughts out of our brains and put them elsewhere.

J.K Rowling did a great job of placing her thoughts in a book to entertain readers. She took them out of her mind and put them on paper. If she didn't, how did we end up with the Harry Potter series for all to read or watch as a movie? The thoughts in her mind did not just remain in her mind. They were shared with the world and will remain as an entertaining fantasy for all the world even when Ms Rowling is dead and those thoughts or any others are no longer in her mind.

A statement of belief or disbelief is the result of what a person THINKS is TRUE or FALSE. THOUGHTS and beliefs are connected. You cannot believe something if you do not THINK it is true first.
The thought is presented first and then people decide to believe the THOUGHT, IDEA, CONCEPT or not. Belief/ disbelief is the RESULT of THINKING a THOUGHT is TRUE/ False.

Thoughts can obviously be separated from the mind just like sounds and sound waves can be separated from the transmitter. The sounds and sound waves still exist even when the transmitter is broken and cannot send or receive messages. The brain is just a transmitter of the "waves" which exist in society and which people tune in to and adopt (believe) or reject (disbelieve) as their own.
Some obviously tune in to the same wavelengths and others tend to remain on opposite wavelengths or end up with their wires crossed somewhere along the line.

There are personal thoughts which some people keep personal and never share with others.
Those remain in their individual minds and hearts.
The general thoughts which are shared throughout society are not confined to any individual mind but are all out in the open without boundaries.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/13/2015 8:59:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/12/2015 8:26:15 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/10/2015 8:35:28 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:30:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:47:49 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Sharing thoughts with the symbols we call words only sends a message to the receiver, it is not the thought itself. My mind tries to replicate the concepts and chains of reasoning your message imparts but those thoughts them become mine, similar to yours but not identical since I had to translate your symbols into my way of thinking.

That is exactly how meanings of messages get lost in translation or interpretation even when people are speaking and writing the same language.
Some can obviously connect on the same wavelength with a clear line and others simply seem incapable of connecting with each other on the same wavelength and end up worlds apart, misunderstanding each other and not communicating properly with one another.

Take as an example, the thought that God is real vs the thought that God is not real.
Those are simply general thoughts in this world which not one person can lay individual claim to owning or inventing. People adopt those thoughts and beliefs as their own but they did not originate in their individual minds. The thoughts and beliefs originated from society in general and both are offered to people in this world through various teachings, reasoning etc.
Those opposite thoughts, ideas, concepts, can be in my mind and anyone elses mind at the same time. Are they my thoughts or am I separate from them due to the same thoughts being in society in general and will still be in society in general after I die?

Those are statements of belief, which anyone can have. Many people can hold the same belief and espouse that belief but their thoughts remain firmly contained in their living brain and cannot be separated. Life is not a Harry Potter book where we can simply take thoughts out of our brains and put them elsewhere.

J.K Rowling did a great job of placing her thoughts in a book to entertain readers. She took them out of her mind and put them on paper. If she didn't, how did we end up with the Harry Potter series for all to read or watch as a movie? The thoughts in her mind did not just remain in her mind. They were shared with the world and will remain as an entertaining fantasy for all the world even when Ms Rowling is dead and those thoughts or any others are no longer in her mind.

A statement of belief or disbelief is the result of what a person THINKS is TRUE or FALSE. THOUGHTS and beliefs are connected. You cannot believe something if you do not THINK it is true first.
The thought is presented first and then people decide to believe the THOUGHT, IDEA, CONCEPT or not. Belief/ disbelief is the RESULT of THINKING a THOUGHT is TRUE/ False.

Thoughts can obviously be separated from the mind just like sounds and sound waves can be separated from the transmitter. The sounds and sound waves still exist even when the transmitter is broken and cannot send or receive messages. The brain is just a transmitter of the "waves" which exist in society and which people tune in to and adopt (believe) or reject (disbelieve) as their own.
Some obviously tune in to the same wavelengths and others tend to remain on opposite wavelengths or end up with their wires crossed somewhere along the line.

There are personal thoughts which some people keep personal and never share with others.
Those remain in their individual minds and hearts.
The general thoughts which are shared throughout society are not confined to any individual mind but are all out in the open without boundaries.

Sharing information and sharing an actual thought are not one in the same. Once again, shared information, whether it be considered factual or fictional, does not separate the thought from the thinker. It allows another thinker to build a mental image and/or structure that, he or she hopes, is like the originator's. An inaccurate reproduction of that image/structure is what is commonly called misunderstanding. The thought remains in the originator's head where it has been since its inception, only the information carried by that thought, more precisely chain of thoughts, is given separate existence.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/15/2015 7:59:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 8:59:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/12/2015 8:26:15 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/10/2015 8:35:28 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:30:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:47:49 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Sharing thoughts with the symbols we call words only sends a message to the receiver, it is not the thought itself. My mind tries to replicate the concepts and chains of reasoning your message imparts but those thoughts them become mine, similar to yours but not identical since I had to translate your symbols into my way of thinking.

That is exactly how meanings of messages get lost in translation or interpretation even when people are speaking and writing the same language.
Some can obviously connect on the same wavelength with a clear line and others simply seem incapable of connecting with each other on the same wavelength and end up worlds apart, misunderstanding each other and not communicating properly with one another.

Take as an example, the thought that God is real vs the thought that God is not real.
Those are simply general thoughts in this world which not one person can lay individual claim to owning or inventing. People adopt those thoughts and beliefs as their own but they did not originate in their individual minds. The thoughts and beliefs originated from society in general and both are offered to people in this world through various teachings, reasoning etc.
Those opposite thoughts, ideas, concepts, can be in my mind and anyone elses mind at the same time. Are they my thoughts or am I separate from them due to the same thoughts being in society in general and will still be in society in general after I die?

Those are statements of belief, which anyone can have. Many people can hold the same belief and espouse that belief but their thoughts remain firmly contained in their living brain and cannot be separated. Life is not a Harry Potter book where we can simply take thoughts out of our brains and put them elsewhere.

J.K Rowling did a great job of placing her thoughts in a book to entertain readers. She took them out of her mind and put them on paper. If she didn't, how did we end up with the Harry Potter series for all to read or watch as a movie? The thoughts in her mind did not just remain in her mind. They were shared with the world and will remain as an entertaining fantasy for all the world even when Ms Rowling is dead and those thoughts or any others are no longer in her mind.

A statement of belief or disbelief is the result of what a person THINKS is TRUE or FALSE. THOUGHTS and beliefs are connected. You cannot believe something if you do not THINK it is true first.
The thought is presented first and then people decide to believe the THOUGHT, IDEA, CONCEPT or not. Belief/ disbelief is the RESULT of THINKING a THOUGHT is TRUE/ False.

Thoughts can obviously be separated from the mind just like sounds and sound waves can be separated from the transmitter. The sounds and sound waves still exist even when the transmitter is broken and cannot send or receive messages. The brain is just a transmitter of the "waves" which exist in society and which people tune in to and adopt (believe) or reject (disbelieve) as their own.
Some obviously tune in to the same wavelengths and others tend to remain on opposite wavelengths or end up with their wires crossed somewhere along the line.

There are personal thoughts which some people keep personal and never share with others.
Those remain in their individual minds and hearts.
The general thoughts which are shared throughout society are not confined to any individual mind but are all out in the open without boundaries.

Sharing information and sharing an actual thought are not one in the same. Once again, shared information, whether it be considered factual or fictional, does not separate the thought from the thinker. It allows another thinker to build a mental image and/or structure that, he or she hopes, is like the originator's. An inaccurate reproduction of that image/structure is what is commonly called misunderstanding. The thought remains in the originator's head where it has been since its inception, only the information carried by that thought, more precisely chain of thoughts, is given separate existence.

In the end, it's all in the personal perception. Some perceive thoughts and information as the same thing and others obviously do not. Some can see it from both perspectives and some can only see one perspective which is their own personal perspective and remain blind to any others.

When a thought has been written down and the writer dies and the written thought remains in the literature, has the thought been separated from the mind in which it originated or not in your perspective?
It certainly has been separated from the original mind in my perspective when a writer dies and his mind is no longer active yet his thoughts remain in his literature for all to access at will.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/16/2015 8:46:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/15/2015 7:59:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/13/2015 8:59:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/12/2015 8:26:15 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/10/2015 8:35:28 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/10/2015 1:30:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:47:49 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/7/2015 10:11:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/7/2015 9:49:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
Simple answer. You can't. Our thoughts are what make us who we are along with our memories. We are formed by experience and our own observations so to separate a person from his thoughts is more impossible the splitting a single quark into something even smaller.

The perfect answer is that you CAN and you also CANNOT.
Thoughts can be shared around all over the world where people can partake of them at their leisure even when you are not near them and they can also be kept within oneself all at the same time.

You obviously did not realize you can separate them from yourself and also keep them in you at the same time.
I and my thoughts are one.
When my thoughts enter your mind through your eyes, am I in you or separate from you ?

Sharing thoughts with the symbols we call words only sends a message to the receiver, it is not the thought itself. My mind tries to replicate the concepts and chains of reasoning your message imparts but those thoughts them become mine, similar to yours but not identical since I had to translate your symbols into my way of thinking.

That is exactly how meanings of messages get lost in translation or interpretation even when people are speaking and writing the same language.
Some can obviously connect on the same wavelength with a clear line and others simply seem incapable of connecting with each other on the same wavelength and end up worlds apart, misunderstanding each other and not communicating properly with one another.

Take as an example, the thought that God is real vs the thought that God is not real.
Those are simply general thoughts in this world which not one person can lay individual claim to owning or inventing. People adopt those thoughts and beliefs as their own but they did not originate in their individual minds. The thoughts and beliefs originated from society in general and both are offered to people in this world through various teachings, reasoning etc.
Those opposite thoughts, ideas, concepts, can be in my mind and anyone elses mind at the same time. Are they my thoughts or am I separate from them due to the same thoughts being in society in general and will still be in society in general after I die?

Those are statements of belief, which anyone can have. Many people can hold the same belief and espouse that belief but their thoughts remain firmly contained in their living brain and cannot be separated. Life is not a Harry Potter book where we can simply take thoughts out of our brains and put them elsewhere.

J.K Rowling did a great job of placing her thoughts in a book to entertain readers. She took them out of her mind and put them on paper. If she didn't, how did we end up with the Harry Potter series for all to read or watch as a movie? The thoughts in her mind did not just remain in her mind. They were shared with the world and will remain as an entertaining fantasy for all the world even when Ms Rowling is dead and those thoughts or any others are no longer in her mind.

A statement of belief or disbelief is the result of what a person THINKS is TRUE or FALSE. THOUGHTS and beliefs are connected. You cannot believe something if you do not THINK it is true first.
The thought is presented first and then people decide to believe the THOUGHT, IDEA, CONCEPT or not. Belief/ disbelief is the RESULT of THINKING a THOUGHT is TRUE/ False.

Thoughts can obviously be separated from the mind just like sounds and sound waves can be separated from the transmitter. The sounds and sound waves still exist even when the transmitter is broken and cannot send or receive messages. The brain is just a transmitter of the "waves" which exist in society and which people tune in to and adopt (believe) or reject (disbelieve) as their own.
Some obviously tune in to the same wavelengths and others tend to remain on opposite wavelengths or end up with their wires crossed somewhere along the line.

There are personal thoughts which some people keep personal and never share with others.
Those remain in their individual minds and hearts.
The general thoughts which are shared throughout society are not confined to any individual mind but are all out in the open without boundaries.

Sharing information and sharing an actual thought are not one in the same. Once again, shared information, whether it be considered factual or fictional, does not separate the thought from the thinker. It allows another thinker to build a mental image and/or structure that, he or she hopes, is like the originator's. An inaccurate reproduction of that image/structure is what is commonly called misunderstanding. The thought remains in the originator's head where it has been since its inception, only the information carried by that thought, more precisely chain of thoughts, is given separate existence.

In the end, it's all in the personal perception. Some perceive thoughts and information as the same thing and others obviously do not. Some can see it from both perspectives and some can only see one perspective which is their own personal perspective and remain blind to any others.

When a thought has been written down and the writer dies and the written thought remains in the literature, has the thought been separated from the mind in which it originated or not in your perspective?
It certainly has been separated from the original mind in my perspective when a writer dies and his mind is no longer active yet his thoughts remain in his literature for all to access at will.

When an author dies what's left are the words that he used to describe his thoughts. Words, like all symbols, are subject to interpretation and one can glimpse the thought processes of the author but the thoughts remain those of the reader as influenced by the words of the author. Perhaps it is just my personal perception but yours is no different.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/16/2015 9:11:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 8:46:55 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/15/2015 7:59:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:

In the end, it's all in the personal perception. Some perceive thoughts and information as the same thing and others obviously do not. Some can see it from both perspectives and some can only see one perspective which is their own personal perspective and remain blind to any others.

When a thought has been written down and the writer dies and the written thought remains in the literature, has the thought been separated from the mind in which it originated or not in your perspective?
It certainly has been separated from the original mind in my perspective when a writer dies and his mind is no longer active yet his thoughts remain in his literature for all to access at will.

When an author dies what's left are the words that he used to describe his thoughts. Words, like all symbols, are subject to interpretation and one can glimpse the thought processes of the author but the thoughts remain those of the reader as influenced by the words of the author. Perhaps it is just my personal perception but yours is no different.

Personal thoughts and perceptions are only the same in the sense that they are all personal. They are however as unique as our own fingerprints. Some people just manage to tune in to the same wavelengths and understand each others thoughts and ideas perfectly. They manage to see things from other peoples perspectives as well as their own. Others obviously do not and consequently remain disconnected in their thoughts.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/16/2015 9:18:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 9:11:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 8:46:55 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/15/2015 7:59:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:

In the end, it's all in the personal perception. Some perceive thoughts and information as the same thing and others obviously do not. Some can see it from both perspectives and some can only see one perspective which is their own personal perspective and remain blind to any others.

When a thought has been written down and the writer dies and the written thought remains in the literature, has the thought been separated from the mind in which it originated or not in your perspective?
It certainly has been separated from the original mind in my perspective when a writer dies and his mind is no longer active yet his thoughts remain in his literature for all to access at will.

When an author dies what's left are the words that he used to describe his thoughts. Words, like all symbols, are subject to interpretation and one can glimpse the thought processes of the author but the thoughts remain those of the reader as influenced by the words of the author. Perhaps it is just my personal perception but yours is no different.

Personal thoughts and perceptions are only the same in the sense that they are all personal. They are however as unique as our own fingerprints. Some people just manage to tune in to the same wavelengths and understand each others thoughts and ideas perfectly. They manage to see things from other peoples perspectives as well as their own. Others obviously do not and consequently remain disconnected in their thoughts.

Interesting assertion. Any evidence to back it up?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/16/2015 5:33:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 9:18:00 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/16/2015 9:11:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 8:46:55 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/15/2015 7:59:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:

In the end, it's all in the personal perception. Some perceive thoughts and information as the same thing and others obviously do not. Some can see it from both perspectives and some can only see one perspective which is their own personal perspective and remain blind to any others.

When a thought has been written down and the writer dies and the written thought remains in the literature, has the thought been separated from the mind in which it originated or not in your perspective?
It certainly has been separated from the original mind in my perspective when a writer dies and his mind is no longer active yet his thoughts remain in his literature for all to access at will.

When an author dies what's left are the words that he used to describe his thoughts. Words, like all symbols, are subject to interpretation and one can glimpse the thought processes of the author but the thoughts remain those of the reader as influenced by the words of the author. Perhaps it is just my personal perception but yours is no different.

Personal thoughts and perceptions are only the same in the sense that they are all personal. They are however as unique as our own fingerprints. Some people just manage to tune in to the same wavelengths and understand each others thoughts and ideas perfectly. They manage to see things from other peoples perspectives as well as their own. Others obviously do not and consequently remain disconnected in their thoughts.

Interesting assertion. Any evidence to back it up?

Evidence of peoples thoughts being as unique as fingerprints can be observed through their individual expression of those thoughts.
The marks we make on paper to communicate thoughts to one another, in my opinion and perception, are much like a fingerprint mark. They convey individuality and uniqueness unless people are copying and pasting other peoples words instead of putting their thoughts into their own words.
Evidence of people understanding each other or being on the same wavelength, can be observed through their harmonious relationships.
Evidence of people being disconnected is seen through the conflict and misunderstandings which can be observed amongst people.
That's the way I see it anyway. Evidence of that is in the words I use to convey my thoughts to you.
Whether people interpret them correctly or misinterpret them can only be judged by their reactions and replies.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/17/2015 8:27:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 5:33:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 9:18:00 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/16/2015 9:11:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 8:46:55 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/15/2015 7:59:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:

In the end, it's all in the personal perception. Some perceive thoughts and information as the same thing and others obviously do not. Some can see it from both perspectives and some can only see one perspective which is their own personal perspective and remain blind to any others.

When a thought has been written down and the writer dies and the written thought remains in the literature, has the thought been separated from the mind in which it originated or not in your perspective?
It certainly has been separated from the original mind in my perspective when a writer dies and his mind is no longer active yet his thoughts remain in his literature for all to access at will.

When an author dies what's left are the words that he used to describe his thoughts. Words, like all symbols, are subject to interpretation and one can glimpse the thought processes of the author but the thoughts remain those of the reader as influenced by the words of the author. Perhaps it is just my personal perception but yours is no different.

Personal thoughts and perceptions are only the same in the sense that they are all personal. They are however as unique as our own fingerprints. Some people just manage to tune in to the same wavelengths and understand each others thoughts and ideas perfectly. They manage to see things from other peoples perspectives as well as their own. Others obviously do not and consequently remain disconnected in their thoughts.

Interesting assertion. Any evidence to back it up?

Evidence of peoples thoughts being as unique as fingerprints can be observed through their individual expression of those thoughts.
The marks we make on paper to communicate thoughts to one another, in my opinion and perception, are much like a fingerprint mark. They convey individuality and uniqueness unless people are copying and pasting other peoples words instead of putting their thoughts into their own words.
Evidence of people understanding each other or being on the same wavelength, can be observed through their harmonious relationships.
Evidence of people being disconnected is seen through the conflict and misunderstandings which can be observed amongst people.
That's the way I see it anyway. Evidence of that is in the words I use to convey my thoughts to you.
Whether people interpret them correctly or misinterpret them can only be judged by their reactions and replies.

My request for evidence was for the 'tune in' part. I fully agree that each individual is different and unique.

But as you point out, words written or spoken are subject to misinterpretation and if it were direct thought to thought transfer, that would not be a possibility.

Harmonious relationships are most often the result of each partner adapting to the other's needs and wants. Even when people finish each others' sentences, it's usually because they feel the same way, not because they are actually linked in thought.

We could discuss this for days and I feel we would never come to a meeting of the minds. I wish you a good day.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/17/2015 5:07:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 8:27:42 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/16/2015 5:33:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 9:18:00 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/16/2015 9:11:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 8:46:55 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/15/2015 7:59:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:

In the end, it's all in the personal perception. Some perceive thoughts and information as the same thing and others obviously do not. Some can see it from both perspectives and some can only see one perspective which is their own personal perspective and remain blind to any others.

When a thought has been written down and the writer dies and the written thought remains in the literature, has the thought been separated from the mind in which it originated or not in your perspective?
It certainly has been separated from the original mind in my perspective when a writer dies and his mind is no longer active yet his thoughts remain in his literature for all to access at will.

When an author dies what's left are the words that he used to describe his thoughts. Words, like all symbols, are subject to interpretation and one can glimpse the thought processes of the author but the thoughts remain those of the reader as influenced by the words of the author. Perhaps it is just my personal perception but yours is no different.

Personal thoughts and perceptions are only the same in the sense that they are all personal. They are however as unique as our own fingerprints. Some people just manage to tune in to the same wavelengths and understand each others thoughts and ideas perfectly. They manage to see things from other peoples perspectives as well as their own. Others obviously do not and consequently remain disconnected in their thoughts.

Interesting assertion. Any evidence to back it up?

Evidence of peoples thoughts being as unique as fingerprints can be observed through their individual expression of those thoughts.
The marks we make on paper to communicate thoughts to one another, in my opinion and perception, are much like a fingerprint mark. They convey individuality and uniqueness unless people are copying and pasting other peoples words instead of putting their thoughts into their own words.
Evidence of people understanding each other or being on the same wavelength, can be observed through their harmonious relationships.
Evidence of people being disconnected is seen through the conflict and misunderstandings which can be observed amongst people.
That's the way I see it anyway. Evidence of that is in the words I use to convey my thoughts to you.
Whether people interpret them correctly or misinterpret them can only be judged by their reactions and replies.

My request for evidence was for the 'tune in' part. I fully agree that each individual is different and unique.

Do you understand the concept of people "being on the same wavelength" or not? It is a figure of speech. So is the tune in part. It is about understanding the way people express themselves so you don't end up misinterpreting what they say.
Can't you tell when people understand each other vs them misunderstanding each other? Have you never seen any evidence of people being in harmony and full agreement to the extent that they almost seem to be thinking the same thing at the same time? That is what I call being "tuned in" to each other and on the same wavelength.

But as you point out, words written or spoken are subject to misinterpretation and if it were direct thought to thought transfer, that would not be a possibility.

Communicating thoughts to one another does not need to lead to misinterpretation when people make an effort to understand each other and question each other till they do understand what the other is trying to say. It just takes time and effort. The problem is most people don't have the patience for it. They all want to be understood but few make the effort to explain themselves when others misunderstand them. Then there is the possibility that some simply can't be bothered trying to understand others. They have no intention of understanding them because they really don't care about what they are trying to communicate in the first place.

Harmonious relationships are most often the result of each partner adapting to the other's needs and wants. Even when people finish each others' sentences, it's usually because they feel the same way, not because they are actually linked in thought.

When people feel the same way and think the same way about something, I see and describe that "process" or "phenomenon" (for want of a better word)... as them being "linked in thought" or "on the same wavelength" or "in tune" with each other. What do you call it besides "feeling the same way"?
All people seem to need and want to be understood yet few are willing to put in the effort to adapt when it comes to understanding others. If we do not put in the effort to try to understand others, we have no right to expect others to try to understand us. Communication is a two way street. If one walks away or ignores the other, the communication obviously breaks down.

We could discuss this for days and I feel we would never come to a meeting of the minds. I wish you a good day.

If you feel that way, I think it is because you have no desire to come to a "meeting of the minds"
If people really want to understand each other they can do it IF they make the effort to do so. However, I understand that is not easy because it means opening up your heart and mind to another person. Most seem to build "invisible barriers" around their hearts and minds so they can hide behind the facades they put on.

Anyway, If you believe you will never come to a "meeting of the minds" with a stranger on the net, then your own belief will stop you from doing it. I gather you simply don't want to.
If you ever change your mind, I believe we can learn to understand each other because I have done it before and if I can do it with one person I can do it with anyone else who is willing to put in the effort too.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/20/2015 8:22:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 5:07:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 8:27:42 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/16/2015 5:33:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 9:18:00 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/16/2015 9:11:10 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 8:46:55 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/15/2015 7:59:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:

In the end, it's all in the personal perception. Some perceive thoughts and information as the same thing and others obviously do not. Some can see it from both perspectives and some can only see one perspective which is their own personal perspective and remain blind to any others.

When a thought has been written down and the writer dies and the written thought remains in the literature, has the thought been separated from the mind in which it originated or not in your perspective?
It certainly has been separated from the original mind in my perspective when a writer dies and his mind is no longer active yet his thoughts remain in his literature for all to access at will.

When an author dies what's left are the words that he used to describe his thoughts. Words, like all symbols, are subject to interpretation and one can glimpse the thought processes of the author but the thoughts remain those of the reader as influenced by the words of the author. Perhaps it is just my personal perception but yours is no different.

Personal thoughts and perceptions are only the same in the sense that they are all personal. They are however as unique as our own fingerprints. Some people just manage to tune in to the same wavelengths and understand each others thoughts and ideas perfectly. They manage to see things from other peoples perspectives as well as their own. Others obviously do not and consequently remain disconnected in their thoughts.

Interesting assertion. Any evidence to back it up?

Evidence of peoples thoughts being as unique as fingerprints can be observed through their individual expression of those thoughts.
The marks we make on paper to communicate thoughts to one another, in my opinion and perception, are much like a fingerprint mark. They convey individuality and uniqueness unless people are copying and pasting other peoples words instead of putting their thoughts into their own words.
Evidence of people understanding each other or being on the same wavelength, can be observed through their harmonious relationships.
Evidence of people being disconnected is seen through the conflict and misunderstandings which can be observed amongst people.
That's the way I see it anyway. Evidence of that is in the words I use to convey my thoughts to you.
Whether people interpret them correctly or misinterpret them can only be judged by their reactions and replies.

My request for evidence was for the 'tune in' part. I fully agree that each individual is different and unique.

Do you understand the concept of people "being on the same wavelength" or not? It is a figure of speech. So is the tune in part. It is about understanding the way people express themselves so you don't end up misinterpreting what they say.
Can't you tell when people understand each other vs them misunderstanding each other? Have you never seen any evidence of people being in harmony and full agreement to the extent that they almost seem to be thinking the same thing at the same time? That is what I call being "tuned in" to each other and on the same wavelength.

But as you point out, words written or spoken are subject to misinterpretation and if it were direct thought to thought transfer, that would not be a possibility.

Communicating thoughts to one another does not need to lead to misinterpretation when people make an effort to understand each other and question each other till they do understand what the other is trying to say. It just takes time and effort. The problem is most people don't have the patience for it. They all want to be understood but few make the effort to explain themselves when others misunderstand them. Then there is the possibility that some simply can't be bothered trying to understand others. They have no intention of understanding them because they really don't care about what they are trying to communicate in the first place.

Harmonious relationships are most often the result of each partner adapting to the other's needs and wants. Even when people finish each others' sentences, it's usually because they feel the same way, not because they are actually linked in thought.

When people feel the same way and think the same way about something, I see and describe that "process" or "phenomenon" (for want of a better word)... as them being "linked in thought" or "on the same wavelength" or "in tune" with each other. What do you call it besides "feeling the same way"?
All people seem to need and want to be understood yet few are willing to put in the effort to adapt when it comes to understanding others. If we do not put in the effort to try to understand others, we have no right to expect others to try to understand us. Communication is a two way street. If one walks away or ignores the other, the communication obviously breaks down.

We could discuss this for days and I feel we would never come to a meeting of the minds. I wish you a good day.

If you feel that way, I think it is because you have no desire to come to a "meeting of the minds"
If people really want to understand each other they can do it IF they make the effort to do so. However, I understand that is not easy because it means opening up your heart and mind to another person. Most seem to build "invisible barriers" around their hearts and minds so they can hide behind the facades they put on.

Anyway, If you believe you will never come to a "meeting of the minds" with a stranger on the net, then your own belief will stop you from doing it. I gather you simply don't want to.
If you ever change your mind, I believe we can learn to understand each other because I have done it before and if I can do it with one person I can do it with anyone else who is willing to put in the effort too.

Forgive me, but I'm a rational empiricist and while I have often observed people who, as you say, finish each others' sentences, it is usually the result of long association or a happy confluence of personalities. There is no evidence of any direct transference of thought anywhere and none of what you have said has demonstrated any difference. It is for that reason that I feel we are at an impasse.
Skyangel
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4/20/2015 6:25:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 8:22:49 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/17/2015 5:07:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Anyway, If you believe you will never come to a "meeting of the minds" with a stranger on the net, then your own belief will stop you from doing it. I gather you simply don't want to.
If you ever change your mind, I believe we can learn to understand each other because I have done it before and if I can do it with one person I can do it with anyone else who is willing to put in the effort too.

Forgive me, but I'm a rational empiricist and while I have often observed people who, as you say, finish each others' sentences, it is usually the result of long association or a happy confluence of personalities. There is no evidence of any direct transference of thought anywhere and none of what you have said has demonstrated any difference. It is for that reason that I feel we are at an impasse.

Transference of thought, the way I see it takes one side to offer their thoughts to another and takes the other to accept what they offer. When there is an acceptance, the thoughts are transferred, accepted and embraced in the mind which accepts them and this results in harmony of thinking even if they do not finish each others sentences. They still think along the same lines and are on the "same wavelength" as it were.

When there is a rejection the thoughts are not transferred but rather rejected by the mind to which they are offered. Hence no transference. The mind which rejects the offer of new or different thoughts to their own, slams closed and is basically saying "I don't want to buy what you are selling" or giving away. It is like saying "I have my own thoughts thank you, I don't want or need yours."

"There is no sound so discouraging than that of a mind slamming closed."

"There is no harmony where only one note is sung".

When people refuse to broaden their own thoughts by considering the possibility that what others say could be true, they are slamming their own minds shut. When they think that only their own way is correct they are singing only one note. They are one sided and one eyed which makes them biased toward their own way of thinking just like I AM.

It is your choice to open or close your mind to the possibility of thoughts being able to be separated from people.
No one can force anyone else to see or perceive things in the same way as they do. People will never see what they do not want to see.

I have chosen to see things from as many different view points as possible. That is most likely why my views seem to be self contradictory and crazy to those who adhere to only one perspective.
The way I see it, I separate my thoughts from my own mind when I write them down for other to accept or reject. Yet at the same time I also keep them in my own mind. It is not like they depart from my mind when I write them down and share them. Sharing them simply multiplies the thoughts so they end up in more minds than just one.
Thoughts are like seeds and the mind is like the ground in which they are planted. Minds which reject the thoughts obviously do not bring them to fruition. Minds which accept the thoughts end up bringing those thoughts to fruition.
In the end all humans are separated from their own thoughts through death yet those thoughts can continue without them through the literature they leave behind.

Those above thoughts are what I offer to readers who are free to accept or reject them.
The fact that people can accept or reject other peoples thoughts without necessarily accepting or rejecting the person as a unique individual, shows me that a person and their thoughts can be separated.
dhardage
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4/21/2015 8:29:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 6:25:19 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 8:22:49 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/17/2015 5:07:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Anyway, If you believe you will never come to a "meeting of the minds" with a stranger on the net, then your own belief will stop you from doing it. I gather you simply don't want to.
If you ever change your mind, I believe we can learn to understand each other because I have done it before and if I can do it with one person I can do it with anyone else who is willing to put in the effort too.

Forgive me, but I'm a rational empiricist and while I have often observed people who, as you say, finish each others' sentences, it is usually the result of long association or a happy confluence of personalities. There is no evidence of any direct transference of thought anywhere and none of what you have said has demonstrated any difference. It is for that reason that I feel we are at an impasse.

Transference of thought, the way I see it takes one side to offer their thoughts to another and takes the other to accept what they offer. When there is an acceptance, the thoughts are transferred, accepted and embraced in the mind which accepts them and this results in harmony of thinking even if they do not finish each others sentences. They still think along the same lines and are on the "same wavelength" as it were.

When there is a rejection the thoughts are not transferred but rather rejected by the mind to which they are offered. Hence no transference. The mind which rejects the offer of new or different thoughts to their own, slams closed and is basically saying "I don't want to buy what you are selling" or giving away. It is like saying "I have my own thoughts thank you, I don't want or need yours."

"There is no sound so discouraging than that of a mind slamming closed."

Yet one should not leave it so open that good sense falls out.

"There is no harmony where only one note is sung".

A note without sound is only silence.

When people refuse to broaden their own thoughts by considering the possibility that what others say could be true, they are slamming their own minds shut.

Only if what they say can be somehow demonstrated, else we'd all believe that Harry Potter rode a hippogriff or that Red Riding Hood survived being eaten by a wolf.

When they think that only their own way is correct they are singing only one note. They are one sided and one eyed which makes them biased toward their own way of thinking just like I AM.

It is your choice to open or close your mind to the possibility of thoughts being able to be separated from people.
No one can force anyone else to see or perceive things in the same way as they do. People will never see what they do not want to see.

I have chosen to see things from as many different view points as possible. That is most likely why my views seem to be self contradictory and crazy to those who adhere to only one perspective.
The way I see it, I separate my thoughts from my own mind when I write them down for other to accept or reject.

You represent your thoughts in symbols that others must interpret. They are not separate, only the information you're trying to convey. Again, a matter of perspective.

Yet at the same time I also keep them in my own mind. It is not like they depart from my mind when I write them down and share them. Sharing them simply multiplies the thoughts so they end up in more minds than just one.
Thoughts are like seeds and the mind is like the ground in which they are planted. Minds which reject the thoughts obviously do not bring them to fruition. Minds which accept the thoughts end up bringing those thoughts to fruition.
In the end all humans are separated from their own thoughts through death yet those thoughts can continue without them through the literature they leave behind.

Those above thoughts are what I offer to readers who are free to accept or reject them.
The fact that people can accept or reject other peoples thoughts without necessarily accepting or rejecting the person as a unique individual, shows me that a person and their thoughts can be separated.
Skyangel
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4/21/2015 5:14:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 8:29:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/20/2015 6:25:19 PM, Skyangel wrote:

"There is no sound so discouraging than that of a mind slamming closed."

Yet one should not leave it so open that good sense falls out.

Good sense does not fall out of the minds of those who know how to retain it.

"There is no harmony where only one note is sung".

A note without sound is only silence.

All notes are without sound when you see them written on paper. To hear any of them you need to understand what they represent and tune in to them when someone magically translates them from paper to music.
The whole world is in silence to those who are deaf.

When people refuse to broaden their own thoughts by considering the possibility that what others say could be true, they are slamming their own minds shut.

Only if what they say can be somehow demonstrated, else we'd all believe that Harry Potter rode a hippogriff or that Red Riding Hood survived being eaten by a wolf.

What is written is written. Whether it is true or not, fact or fiction, is a matter of perception and understanding the difference between fact and fiction.
Many people obviously believe myths due to their own perception of having "experienced" some invisible character communicating with them.
Take the example of the words in the bible.
Have those thoughts been separated from the authors or are they still in the minds of those authors?
Do people "hear God speaking" to them when they read the bible or do they "hear the thoughts" of dead authors?
Do those thoughts, ideas and principles in the bible come from an individual from which they cannot be separated?

When they think that only their own way is correct they are singing only one note. They are one sided and one eyed which makes them biased toward their own way of thinking just like I AM.

It is your choice to open or close your mind to the possibility of thoughts being able to be separated from people.
No one can force anyone else to see or perceive things in the same way as they do. People will never see what they do not want to see.

I have chosen to see things from as many different view points as possible. That is most likely why my views seem to be self contradictory and crazy to those who adhere to only one perspective.
The way I see it, I separate my thoughts from my own mind when I write them down for other to accept or reject.

You represent your thoughts in symbols that others must interpret. They are not separate, only the information you're trying to convey. Again, a matter of perspective.

Yes we do. Do you think the symbols are not separate from the mind? The symbols are not in the mind. They are on the computer screen or paper. The mind is not separate from the body. Your mind goes everywhere you go but the computer does not. Therefore when you type your thoughts onto the screen, they have been separated from your mind as well as remaining in your mind till the day you die when ALL your thoughts are separated from your mind but remain on paper or on the net or wherever you happen to have put them while you are alive.

Literature is a record of the thoughts of the writers. You can find out what dead people thought while they were alive by reading the literature they left behind. It makes no difference if you interpret those thoughts correctly or not. The fact remains that what they wrote is a record of their thoughts. If you disagree with that, please explain why you disagree.
dhardage
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4/22/2015 8:51:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 5:14:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 8:29:53 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/20/2015 6:25:19 PM, Skyangel wrote:

"There is no sound so discouraging than that of a mind slamming closed."

Yet one should not leave it so open that good sense falls out.

Good sense does not fall out of the minds of those who know how to retain it.

I see no evidence of retention here.

"There is no harmony where only one note is sung".

A note without sound is only silence.

All notes are without sound when you see them written on paper. To hear any of them you need to understand what they represent and tune in to them when someone magically translates them from paper to music.

That's not magic, it's skill.

The whole world is in silence to those who are deaf.

And there are none so deaf as those who refuse to hear, to borrow a phrase.

I suppose you don't understand analogy but we'll that's ok. You completely misunderstood the intent of my comment so I will try again. Any signal that has no information encoded, be it speech, music, radio signal, etc., is meaningless noise. I see no evidence of information in the symbols you're producing.

When people refuse to broaden their own thoughts by considering the possibility that what others say could be true, they are slamming their own minds shut.

Only if those presenting the possibility can then show evidence of its veracity. Without evidence it remains unfounded speculation and has no real meaning.

Only if what they say can be somehow demonstrated, else we'd all believe that Harry Potter rode a hippogriff or that Red Riding Hood survived being eaten by a wolf.

What is written is written. Whether it is true or not, fact or fiction, is a matter of perception and understanding the difference between fact and fiction.

Agreed, 100%.

Many people obviously believe myths due to their own perception of having "experienced" some invisible character communicating with them.

Which could also be explained by delusions or hallucinations. How many invisible characters have you communicated with, if one may ask?

Take the example of the words in the bible.
Have those thoughts been separated from the authors or are they still in the minds of those authors?

Since they are dead, I'd say their thoughts are gone too.

Do people "hear God speaking" to them when they read the bible or do they "hear the thoughts" of dead authors?

They see symbols that they must interpret into ideas and images. It's very individual thing, hence the multitude of differing sects of Christianity, all claiming to have the only truth.

Do those thoughts, ideas and principles in the bible come from an individual from which they cannot be separated?

That information was recorded symbolically. If it were truly sharing of thoughts then everyone would get the same message and they don't.


When they think that only their own way is correct they are singing only one note. They are one sided and one eyed which makes them biased toward their own way of thinking just like I AM.

It is your choice to open or close your mind to the possibility of thoughts being able to be separated from people.

I'm open to any possibility but any assertion that it happens must be backed up with evidence I can test and verify. Without that, it's still meaningless noise.

No one can force anyone else to see or perceive things in the same way as they do.

That's what I've been trying to express to you.

People will never see what they do not want to see.

I beg to differ. People see things they don't want to all the time. Whether or not they choose to act on it, that's an entirely different subject.

I have chosen to see things from as many different view points as possible. That is most likely why my views seem to be self contradictory and crazy to those who adhere to only one perspective.
The way I see it, I separate my thoughts from my own mind when I write them down for other to accept or reject.

You represent your thoughts in symbols that others must interpret. They are not separate, only the information you're trying to convey. Again, a matter of perspective.

Yes we do. Do you think the symbols are not separate from the mind? The symbols are not in the mind. They are on the computer screen or paper. The mind is not separate from the body. Your mind goes everywhere you go but the computer does not. Therefore when you type your thoughts onto the screen, they have been separated from your mind as well as remaining in your mind till the day you die when ALL your thoughts are separated from your mind but remain on paper or on the net or wherever you happen to have put them while you are alive.

Again, it's only symbolic representation of your thoughts, feelings, etc. A picture of you isn't the same as you, no matter how good a reproduction is. What you're doing is confusing a snapshot of your thoughts with thoughts themselves. When you listen to a recording of a song, you're not listening to the artist sing, only a good reproduction.

Literature is a record of the thoughts of the writers. You can find out what dead people thought while they were alive by reading the literature they left behind. It makes no difference if you interpret those thoughts correctly or not. The fact remains that what they wrote is a record of their thoughts. If you disagree with that, please explain why you disagree.

"Literature is a record of the thoughts of the writers." Exactly! A record, a transcription of what they were thinking in that moment of writing. Don't confuse the record with the actual thoughts. They are not one and the same.
Skyangel
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4/22/2015 10:21:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/22/2015 8:51:57 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/21/2015 5:14:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 8:29:53 AM, dhardage wrote:

Yet one should not leave it so open that good sense falls out.

Good sense does not fall out of the minds of those who know how to retain it.

I see no evidence of retention here.

Maybe that's because you are blind.

And there are none so deaf as those who refuse to hear, to borrow a phrase.

The phrase applies to you as much as it applies to anyone else.

I suppose you don't understand analogy but we'll that's ok. You completely misunderstood the intent of my comment so I will try again. Any signal that has no information encoded, be it speech, music, radio signal, etc., is meaningless noise. I see no evidence of information in the symbols you're producing.

Maybe that's because you are blind and do not want to see.

When people refuse to broaden their own thoughts by considering the possibility that what others say could be true, they are slamming their own minds shut.

Only if those presenting the possibility can then show evidence of its veracity. Without evidence it remains unfounded speculation and has no real meaning.

Can you see evidence of words on a page? Do you understand those words are some of my thoughts which I am sharing with those who read them? Do you think those words are separate from my mind when they are on the computer or are you looking at them in my mind?

There is no lack of meaning in what I type. There is just lack of understanding in your own mind. You obviously suffer from lack of comprehension.

What is written is written. Whether it is true or not, fact or fiction, is a matter of perception and understanding the difference between fact and fiction.

Agreed, 100%.

Well that's a start.

Many people obviously believe myths due to their own perception of having "experienced" some invisible character communicating with them.

Which could also be explained by delusions or hallucinations. How many invisible characters have you communicated with, if one may ask?

I do not communicate with imaginary characters. I did when I was a child but I grew out of that fantasy stage. I have communicated with many people I have never seen in person though and so have all others who communicate with strangers on the net. I am "invisible" to many people but I am not invisible in reality.

Take the example of the words in the bible.
Have those thoughts been separated from the authors or are they still in the minds of those authors?

Since they are dead, I'd say their thoughts are gone too.

I disagree. Not ALL their thoughts are gone. Only those which were in the mind at the point of death are gone. I perceive many thoughts to have been recorded and preserved on paper. Stories and testimonies etc are the recorded thoughts of authors. Surely you can understand that perception even if you don't agree with it? Do you really have so much trouble understanding my perception?

Do people "hear God speaking" to them when they read the bible or do they "hear the thoughts" of dead authors?

They see symbols that they must interpret into ideas and images. It's very individual thing, hence the multitude of differing sects of Christianity, all claiming to have the only truth.

I understand your perspective. I wish you could understand mine too.

Do those thoughts, ideas and principles in the bible come from an individual from which they cannot be separated?

That information was recorded symbolically. If it were truly sharing of thoughts then everyone would get the same message and they don't.

Fair enough, but people can speak to each other face to face and still get wrong messages and misinterpret the thoughts which are being communicated so how do you suggest we humans communicate more effectively in order to get the correct messages from each other? It seems everything we do is symbolic and subject to various interpretations or misinterpretations.

When they think that only their own way is correct they are singing only one note. They are one sided and one eyed which makes them biased toward their own way of thinking just like I AM.

It is your choice to open or close your mind to the possibility of thoughts being able to be separated from people.

I'm open to any possibility but any assertion that it happens must be backed up with evidence I can test and verify. Without that, it's still meaningless noise.

Do you have a problem verifying words in a book or do you have a problem with perceiving them as recorded thoughts?
What exactly is causing the problem? Lack of understanding? Lack of comprehension? Ineffective communication? Simple stubbornness?

No one can force anyone else to see or perceive things in the same way as they do.

That's what I've been trying to express to you.

Well at least we agree on that. However, I believe all of us are able to see and understand what we really want to see and understand. If we don't want to see and understand something we will never put in the effort to do so.

People will never see what they do not want to see.

I beg to differ. People see things they don't want to all the time. Whether or not they choose to act on it, that's an entirely different subject.

It is true that people see things they don't want to see all the time but I have noticed that those who do not want to see them tend to block them out, deny what they are seeing or ignore it. People have many ways of not acknowledging what they see when they do not want to believe it or they perceive it as worthless etc.

The way I see it, I separate my thoughts from my own mind when I write them down for other to accept or reject.

You represent your thoughts in symbols that others must interpret. They are not separate, only the information you're trying to convey. Again, a matter of perspective.

Yes in the end it is all a matter of perspective and understanding the various perspectives gives us a better overall view of the whole picture and helps us not to be so one sided.

Again, it's only symbolic representation of your thoughts, feelings, etc. A picture of you isn't the same as you, no matter how good a reproduction is. What you're doing is confusing a snapshot of your thoughts with thoughts themselves. When you listen to a recording of a song, you're not listening to the artist sing, only a good reproduction.

There is no other way to share thoughts than through symbols or sounds since thoughts themselves are invisible and intangible. Therefore we need to make them visible or audible if we wish to share them. If you know of a different way to make your thoughts known to others, please let me know. If you do not believe you can separate them from your own mind, how can you share them with anyone else?
That is a bit like trying to share an apple which cannot be separated from the tree.
Our thoughts are like the fruits of the mind which is like the tree of knowledge.

"Literature is a record of the thoughts of the writers." Exactly! A record, a transcription of what they were thinking in that moment of writing. Don't confuse the record with the actual thoughts. They are not one and the same.

I understand perfectly that the invisible silent thoughts inside the individual mind is not the same as the visibly and audibly recorded thoughts but making the invisible visible is the only way to separate the thoughts from the mind so that others can share them as "food for thought". We have obviously not advanced to reading each others minds yet.