Total Posts:62|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

A Question about Reincarnation

Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The idea of Reincarnation has always fascinated me. I find it to be much more reasonable than the heaven/hell theory. For starters, the idea of spending all of eternity in hell for only a lifetime worth of sins just doesn't match up. I know Christians will respond by saying that the flip side is you could spend an eternity in heaven, but the whole thing just seems silly. Reincarnation, on the other hand, at-least bases your next life off of the doings of your past one. I still don't buy into it either, but at-least it's somewhat more reasonable than the Christian afterlife theory.

The main point of this thread is because even though I find Reincarnation more reasonable, there is one thing that I don't understand. Where are all the new humans coming from? What I mean by that is that if reincarnation is true and we all lived past lives, how are we seeing an increase in population instead of remaining at a stagnant number? Where are all of these new souls coming from?

Someone once told me that since humans have caused the extinctions of millions of creatures and plants, the new humans are the old energy of those animals and plants coming back to keep the "world balance" equal. I don't understand this either though. Like, what, 3 dodo birds equal 1 human in the next life? I can get the concept of the world having a certain amount of life-energy, and that the increase in humans could be the physical manifestation of the lost life-energy of other lifeforms, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Could someone more knowledgeable on the Buddhist concept of Reincarnation please explain to me how this works?
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 8:54:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The idea of Reincarnation has always fascinated me. I find it to be much more reasonable than the heaven/hell theory. For starters, the idea of spending all of eternity in hell for only a lifetime worth of sins just doesn't match up. I know Christians will respond by saying that the flip side is you could spend an eternity in heaven, but the whole thing just seems silly. Reincarnation, on the other hand, at-least bases your next life off of the doings of your past one. I still don't buy into it either, but at-least it's somewhat more reasonable than the Christian afterlife theory.

The main point of this thread is because even though I find Reincarnation more reasonable, there is one thing that I don't understand. Where are all the new humans coming from? What I mean by that is that if reincarnation is true and we all lived past lives, how are we seeing an increase in population instead of remaining at a stagnant number? Where are all of these new souls coming from?

Someone once told me that since humans have caused the extinctions of millions of creatures and plants, the new humans are the old energy of those animals and plants coming back to keep the "world balance" equal. I don't understand this either though. Like, what, 3 dodo birds equal 1 human in the next life? I can get the concept of the world having a certain amount of life-energy, and that the increase in humans could be the physical manifestation of the lost life-energy of other lifeforms, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Could someone more knowledgeable on the Buddhist concept of Reincarnation please explain to me how this works? : :

Since I've been taught directly by the ONE who planned and created everything we experience, I have learned what's going to happen in the future and how we were created. If you're interested in learning these things, give me a holler. If not, then remain confused.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 11:02:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 8:54:09 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The idea of Reincarnation has always fascinated me. I find it to be much more reasonable than the heaven/hell theory. For starters, the idea of spending all of eternity in hell for only a lifetime worth of sins just doesn't match up. I know Christians will respond by saying that the flip side is you could spend an eternity in heaven, but the whole thing just seems silly. Reincarnation, on the other hand, at-least bases your next life off of the doings of your past one. I still don't buy into it either, but at-least it's somewhat more reasonable than the Christian afterlife theory.

The main point of this thread is because even though I find Reincarnation more reasonable, there is one thing that I don't understand. Where are all the new humans coming from? What I mean by that is that if reincarnation is true and we all lived past lives, how are we seeing an increase in population instead of remaining at a stagnant number? Where are all of these new souls coming from?

Someone once told me that since humans have caused the extinctions of millions of creatures and plants, the new humans are the old energy of those animals and plants coming back to keep the "world balance" equal. I don't understand this either though. Like, what, 3 dodo birds equal 1 human in the next life? I can get the concept of the world having a certain amount of life-energy, and that the increase in humans could be the physical manifestation of the lost life-energy of other lifeforms, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Could someone more knowledgeable on the Buddhist concept of Reincarnation please explain to me how this works? : :

Since I've been taught directly by the ONE who planned and created everything we experience, I have learned what's going to happen in the future and how we were created. If you're interested in learning these things, give me a holler. If not, then remain confused.

I'm only confused because I don't understand. If someone could provide a response to my inquiry then I wouldn't be confused anymore.

It looks like no-one here really knows a lot about reincarnation though.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 11:08:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't know about reincarnation, but I think the smarter Christians, typically interpret hell to be a seperation from God, or as separated as you can be from an omnipresent force anyway. The brimstone and fire concept really doesn't hold much water, it's more of a recruitment tool.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 12:01:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have a learning understanding of so called reincarnation.

It is a most interesting concept and there is Truth to the concept.

But as with most all in this earthly world, you can't find the understanding by way of popular superstitious routes.

There is some Truth is most of what seems like crazy talk around these forums.

The problem that those of the many have is that they can ONLY find what they are TRULY seeking. If a person is mostly playing make believe and pretend reality then they will get the understanding that they seek.

A confused and doubt troubled understanding that never finds the Truth and clear understanding as those of the many REJECT and DENY ANYTHING that might get in the WAY of what they WOULD like to believe.

That is the problem with this world. The many want to believe that it is perfectly fine and dandy to make believe and pretend all they want as it is their God given right or some God will sort it out or some man made church concept with it's magic connection to God or the other side with the, can't help it as the evolutionary processes made them the way that they are and not much can be done to change it with out the proper scientific breakthrough in theories and such. Scientific magic basically.

You people that love and lust after your deceptions and lies called good are sure missing out on Heaven on earth.

Heaven and Hell are not places and such. They are states of mind.

You may not be able to stop others from imprisoning your body, but you have to choose with free will choice to give up your thoughts and mind. Also could be called soul or spirit.

Most are just lazy day dreamers looking for short cuts and easy ways.

So in answer to your questions on so called reincarnation.

It is of as much substance as many other known human concepts and beliefs.

There is a little bit of Truth in most all. But most all is mostly constructed of fictions and other popular concepts and theories that are made up by the masses.

If a person wants to know and understand what is deep down the rabbit hole and what is at the known ends of the world and beyond.......

You have to take the journey on your own basically. Without any of the popular crutches, theories and concepts of superstition.

It is quite silly to try and believe that you can find Truth, Honesty and clear understanding by way of deceptions and lies called good also known as fantasy and fiction as a means of escape from what bothers peoples inner denials.

nothing new under the sun when the confused masses try and have their fun and run...
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 12:05:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 11:02:09 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2015 8:54:09 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The idea of Reincarnation has always fascinated me. I find it to be much more reasonable than the heaven/hell theory. For starters, the idea of spending all of eternity in hell for only a lifetime worth of sins just doesn't match up. I know Christians will respond by saying that the flip side is you could spend an eternity in heaven, but the whole thing just seems silly. Reincarnation, on the other hand, at-least bases your next life off of the doings of your past one. I still don't buy into it either, but at-least it's somewhat more reasonable than the Christian afterlife theory.

The main point of this thread is because even though I find Reincarnation more reasonable, there is one thing that I don't understand. Where are all the new humans coming from? What I mean by that is that if reincarnation is true and we all lived past lives, how are we seeing an increase in population instead of remaining at a stagnant number? Where are all of these new souls coming from?

Someone once told me that since humans have caused the extinctions of millions of creatures and plants, the new humans are the old energy of those animals and plants coming back to keep the "world balance" equal. I don't understand this either though. Like, what, 3 dodo birds equal 1 human in the next life? I can get the concept of the world having a certain amount of life-energy, and that the increase in humans could be the physical manifestation of the lost life-energy of other lifeforms, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Could someone more knowledgeable on the Buddhist concept of Reincarnation please explain to me how this works? : :

Since I've been taught directly by the ONE who planned and created everything we experience, I have learned what's going to happen in the future and how we were created. If you're interested in learning these things, give me a holler. If not, then remain confused.

I'm only confused because I don't understand. If someone could provide a response to my inquiry then I wouldn't be confused anymore.

It looks like no-one here really knows a lot about reincarnation though. : :

The reincarnation question came about because of man's dreams. Have you ever dreamed of being in a different body than what you experience when you're awake in this world?

Anyway, our Creator has been teaching me about the future age to come when man will experience life in many different bodies such as the body of a bird, or rocket, or some weird looking creature.

He's used analogies like the simulated computer games I played some years ago called Doom and Duke Nukem amongst all the newer ones that I've never played before. When you play these games, the body that you possess during the game is not the body that you're experiencing in this world with as it's sitting in the chair behind the computer monitor you're looking at.

I experienced a reoccurring dream when I was a teenager. The dream was about my body being a crop dusting airplane flying low to the ground spraying fields with chemicals. The dream was so real that it was the most exhilarating experience I have ever experienced in this world. Our Creator used this dream as a way to teach me the future and how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise.

Each created man will be reborn in Paradise with two bodies, One body will be a male and the other will be a female. These two bodies will appear in every individual dream together but in different bodies. When you look at your partner, you will see a different body than when you're in the world together with the rest of God's people. You won't be able to see your whole body from your own individual perspective but you will learn that it's almost exactly like the body that you're partner is in. You will be able to see your arms, legs and so on like you can in this world today but you will never see your whole body. That's because we won't have mirrors or reflective lighting off of pools of water to see your face in while living in Paradise.

If we didn't have mirrors or reflective light in pools of still water to see yourself in, you wouldn't have any idea what your face looks like. If you saw nothing but ugly people around you, you would assume you looked like them. If you were an ugly mutt and surrounded with beautiful looking people, you wouldn't know why they're all looking at you with a weird expression on their faces.

I could write a book's worth of information about experiencing life in Paradise but with time restraints in this world, the information I shared with you in this thread should get your imagination going about the future.

So look forward to all kinds of experiences in Paradise with many different bodies with a perfect partner to be with in every dream together.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 12:12:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 12:01:09 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
I have a learning understanding of so called reincarnation.

It is a most interesting concept and there is Truth to the concept.

But as with most all in this earthly world, you can't find the understanding by way of popular superstitious routes.

There is some Truth is most of what seems like crazy talk around these forums.

The problem that those of the many have is that they can ONLY find what they are TRULY seeking. If a person is mostly playing make believe and pretend reality then they will get the understanding that they seek.

A confused and doubt troubled understanding that never finds the Truth and clear understanding as those of the many REJECT and DENY ANYTHING that might get in the WAY of what they WOULD like to believe.

That is the problem with this world. The many want to believe that it is perfectly fine and dandy to make believe and pretend all they want as it is their God given right or some God will sort it out or some man made church concept with it's magic connection to God or the other side with the, can't help it as the evolutionary processes made them the way that they are and not much can be done to change it with out the proper scientific breakthrough in theories and such. Scientific magic basically.

You people that love and lust after your deceptions and lies called good are sure missing out on Heaven on earth.

Heaven and Hell are not places and such. They are states of mind.

You may not be able to stop others from imprisoning your body, but you have to choose with free will choice to give up your thoughts and mind. Also could be called soul or spirit.

Most are just lazy day dreamers looking for short cuts and easy ways.

So in answer to your questions on so called reincarnation.

It is of as much substance as many other known human concepts and beliefs.

There is a little bit of Truth in most all. But most all is mostly constructed of fictions and other popular concepts and theories that are made up by the masses.

If a person wants to know and understand what is deep down the rabbit hole and what is at the known ends of the world and beyond.......

You have to take the journey on your own basically. Without any of the popular crutches, theories and concepts of superstition.

It is quite silly to try and believe that you can find Truth, Honesty and clear understanding by way of deceptions and lies called good also known as fantasy and fiction as a means of escape from what bothers peoples inner denials.

nothing new under the sun when the confused masses try and have their fun and run... : :

I read this post of yours thinking that you were going to say something about reincarnation and by the time I was half way through it, I realized it's the same old crap that you've been saying in every thread in this forum. Don't you know anything besides observing this world as nothing but fantasy and deceptions?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 12:16:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm too lazy to track them down now, but it's interesting that there are verses in the bible that seem to imply reincarnation as well.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 12:50:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 12:16:05 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm too lazy to track them down now, but it's interesting that there are verses in the bible that seem to imply reincarnation as well.

The reincarnation type concepts are found in most religions. Most times it's mostly ignored or believed and taught in other forms that are just a horse of a different color.

Even so called science and the medical communities have their versions that seem much like other reincarnation concepts and beliefs.

I don't believe in so called reincarnation, but I do believe in the Honest Truth of the known matter when viewed from a non earthly superstitious viewpoint.

If a person has a problem with what I write and the way that I view this world and it's people on other topics, they have NO chance whatsoever understanding the concept of so called reincarnation.

So WHY do I even bother?

Here is my simple answer that should be understood by those that wish or choose to understand what I write and claim.

It is much like the bible story with the fictional character Jesus and the fictional Pharisees. You had Jesus that was the Truth of Life that exposed the illusions of deceptions and lies called good.

and you had the popular fancy dress and smart talking Pharisees. There were the many of the Pharisees and the FEW of the same Pharisees.

The many of the Pharisees could NOT, would NOT and did NOT understand that THEY were the LOST and confused as to what was Truth and what was not.

The FEW of the same Pharisees were interested in what may be BEYOND the popular concepts and beliefs. Those that were more interested in REAL growing up then just in the illusions of growing.

Now there was/IS and will always be the many and the FEW.

The many understand what the many understand and the FEW understand it ALL.

the so called 4th dimension and beyond is where it's at.

Most are having a problem figuring out the first 3 dimensions that are known to a degree. The so called 4th dimension and beyond is all just theory and make believe beliefs by the many.

But those of the few have a understanding of such things that are BEYOND the superstitious mindset.

Now I say that as it is the best way that I can describe what I know and understand using the best available man made words and descriptions.

The language of "God and beyond" is a special language that only those of the few have a chance of understanding.

Don't dream of steak and whiskey when you can hardly handle mush and warm milk.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 1:47:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 11:08:00 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't know about reincarnation, but I think the smarter Christians, typically interpret hell to be a seperation from God, or as separated as you can be from an omnipresent force anyway. The brimstone and fire concept really doesn't hold much water, it's more of a recruitment tool.

I despise those who use fear as a recruitment tool. It's the most manipulative way to bring people over to your side.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 1:57:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 1:47:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2015 11:08:00 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't know about reincarnation, but I think the smarter Christians, typically interpret hell to be a seperation from God, or as separated as you can be from an omnipresent force anyway. The brimstone and fire concept really doesn't hold much water, it's more of a recruitment tool.

I despise those who use fear as a recruitment tool. It's the most manipulative way to bring people over to your side.

It seems effective, though. I despise it too.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 2:33:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 12:01:09 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
I have a learning understanding of so called reincarnation.

It is a most interesting concept and there is Truth to the concept.

But as with most all in this earthly world, you can't find the understanding by way of popular superstitious routes.

There is some Truth is most of what seems like crazy talk around these forums.

The problem that those of the many have is that they can ONLY find what they are TRULY seeking. If a person is mostly playing make believe and pretend reality then they will get the understanding that they seek.

A confused and doubt troubled understanding that never finds the Truth and clear understanding as those of the many REJECT and DENY ANYTHING that might get in the WAY of what they WOULD like to believe.

That is the problem with this world. The many want to believe that it is perfectly fine and dandy to make believe and pretend all they want as it is their God given right or some God will sort it out or some man made church concept with it's magic connection to God or the other side with the, can't help it as the evolutionary processes made them the way that they are and not much can be done to change it with out the proper scientific breakthrough in theories and such. Scientific magic basically.

You people that love and lust after your deceptions and lies called good are sure missing out on Heaven on earth.

Heaven and Hell are not places and such. They are states of mind.

You may not be able to stop others from imprisoning your body, but you have to choose with free will choice to give up your thoughts and mind. Also could be called soul or spirit.

Most are just lazy day dreamers looking for short cuts and easy ways.

So in answer to your questions on so called reincarnation.

It is of as much substance as many other known human concepts and beliefs.

There is a little bit of Truth in most all. But most all is mostly constructed of fictions and other popular concepts and theories that are made up by the masses.

If a person wants to know and understand what is deep down the rabbit hole and what is at the known ends of the world and beyond.......

You have to take the journey on your own basically. Without any of the popular crutches, theories and concepts of superstition.

It is quite silly to try and believe that you can find Truth, Honesty and clear understanding by way of deceptions and lies called good also known as fantasy and fiction as a means of escape from what bothers peoples inner denials.

nothing new under the sun when the confused masses try and have their fun and run...

Thank you for that substantial response! I agree with some things you said, and disagree with some things. Some of the things I agree with you on are that the journey is our own responsibility, we shouldn't depend on others, and that most of these theories have at-least some truth mixed in with all the fiction. On the flip side, I don't agree that heaven and hell are solely a state of mind. The bible makes it clear that hell is a real, physical place. Not that I believe it is, but if hell was real and according to the bible the. It's definitely a physical realm.

I didn't really see a response to my specific question, but ultimately I appreciate your response nonetheless!
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 2:44:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 12:05:50 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 4/11/2015 11:02:09 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2015 8:54:09 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The idea of Reincarnation has always fascinated me. I find it to be much more reasonable than the heaven/hell theory. For starters, the idea of spending all of eternity in hell for only a lifetime worth of sins just doesn't match up. I know Christians will respond by saying that the flip side is you could spend an eternity in heaven, but the whole thing just seems silly. Reincarnation, on the other hand, at-least bases your next life off of the doings of your past one. I still don't buy into it either, but at-least it's somewhat more reasonable than the Christian afterlife theory.

The main point of this thread is because even though I find Reincarnation more reasonable, there is one thing that I don't understand. Where are all the new humans coming from? What I mean by that is that if reincarnation is true and we all lived past lives, how are we seeing an increase in population instead of remaining at a stagnant number? Where are all of these new souls coming from?

Someone once told me that since humans have caused the extinctions of millions of creatures and plants, the new humans are the old energy of those animals and plants coming back to keep the "world balance" equal. I don't understand this either though. Like, what, 3 dodo birds equal 1 human in the next life? I can get the concept of the world having a certain amount of life-energy, and that the increase in humans could be the physical manifestation of the lost life-energy of other lifeforms, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Could someone more knowledgeable on the Buddhist concept of Reincarnation please explain to me how this works? : :

Since I've been taught directly by the ONE who planned and created everything we experience, I have learned what's going to happen in the future and how we were created. If you're interested in learning these things, give me a holler. If not, then remain confused.

I'm only confused because I don't understand. If someone could provide a response to my inquiry then I wouldn't be confused anymore.

It looks like no-one here really knows a lot about reincarnation though. : :

The reincarnation question came about because of man's dreams. Have you ever dreamed of being in a different body than what you experience when you're awake in this world?

Wait, what? Are you saying my question came about because of dreams or that the theory of reincarnation itself was birthed from the dreams of men? If you could clarify that a little I'd be appreciative.

Anyway, our Creator has been teaching me about the future age to come when man will experience life in many different bodies such as the body of a bird, or rocket, or some weird looking creature.

Really? Is there any scripture that can back up your description of this new age to come? I'd be interested to hear more about this new age.

He's used analogies like the simulated computer games I played some years ago called Doom and Duke Nukem amongst all the newer ones that I've never played before. When you play these games, the body that you possess during the game is not the body that you're experiencing in this world with as it's sitting in the chair behind the computer monitor you're looking at.

This sounds a lot like the hologram theory that some scientists are fond of. I've also heard people say that this world and our lives could really just be some highly advanced simulator program that an intelligent species is running. There are several theories that kinda parallel this view of yours. I'd like to hear your take on it some more though, perhaps more details so I can compare yours to the similar theories floating around in the scientific community.

I experienced a reoccurring dream when I was a teenager. The dream was about my body being a crop dusting airplane flying low to the ground spraying fields with chemicals. The dream was so real that it was the most exhilarating experience I have ever experienced in this world. Our Creator used this dream as a way to teach me the future and how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise.

I still don't think I fully understand. Is this a new age on earth, or our future experience in heaven? Or is this new age literally gonna be heaven on earth? Also. What exactly do you mean when you say that we'll have different bodies or can switch bodies to something else like a bird or plane?

Each created man will be reborn in Paradise with two bodies, One body will be a male and the other will be a female. These two bodies will appear in every individual dream together but in different bodies. When you look at your partner, you will see a different body than when you're in the world together with the rest of God's people. You won't be able to see your whole body from your own individual perspective but you will learn that it's almost exactly like the body that you're partner is in. You will be able to see your arms, legs and so on like you can in this world today but you will never see your whole body. That's because we won't have mirrors or reflective lighting off of pools of water to see your face in while living in Paradise.

Wait, in paradise I'll be reborn with both a male and separate female body? Two bodies for one soul?

If we didn't have mirrors or reflective light in pools of still water to see yourself in, you wouldn't have any idea what your face looks like. If you saw nothing but ugly people around you, you would assume you looked like them. If you were an ugly mutt and surrounded with beautiful looking people, you wouldn't know why they're all looking at you with a weird expression on their faces.

True...

I could write a book's worth of information about experiencing life in Paradise but with time restraints in this world, the information I shared with you in this thread should get your imagination going.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 2:45:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 12:16:05 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm too lazy to track them down now, but it's interesting that there are verses in the bible that seem to imply reincarnation as well.

Really?
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 2:57:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 1:57:53 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/11/2015 1:47:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2015 11:08:00 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't know about reincarnation, but I think the smarter Christians, typically interpret hell to be a seperation from God, or as separated as you can be from an omnipresent force anyway. The brimstone and fire concept really doesn't hold much water, it's more of a recruitment tool.

I despise those who use fear as a recruitment tool. It's the most manipulative way to bring people over to your side.

It seems effective, though. I despise it too.

It's definitely effective for a majority of people, mostly because fear is one of the strongest and penetrating emotions we have. I had to take a philosophy class one time called 'Death & Dying', in it we were exposed to death anxiety and all the methods people use to avoid it, including religions that preach about places like heaven. We also learned how most fears are rooted in death anxiety. Ex- a fear of snakes or heights, both of which have potential for death via poisonous snake bites or falling from a high location. If we remove our fear of death from the equation , the only thing left to fear is temporary physical pain or loneliness (if such things frighten), all else ceases to cause fear.

Personally, I've come to believe that death is no different from pre-birth. Just pure nothingness. For awhile that really scared me because death leads to the unknown, but after thinking about pre-birth and realizing that there is nothing scary about nothingness, I moved on. I guess you could say I beat the demon of death anxiety, and now the only thing I fear is losing someone or something I love, every other fear kinda just melted away.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/11/2015 3:01:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 2:45:10 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2015 12:16:05 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm too lazy to track them down now, but it's interesting that there are verses in the bible that seem to imply reincarnation as well.

Really?

http://reluctant-messenger.com...

The Jews were a wandering tribe that pretty much combined other religions into their narrative, so they have a lot of stuff covered, even if the church covered most of that up, by forming the bible from holy books that supported the narrative they wanted to push.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The idea of Reincarnation has always fascinated me. I find it to be much more reasonable than the heaven/hell theory. For starters, the idea of spending all of eternity in hell for only a lifetime worth of sins just doesn't match up. I know Christians will respond by saying that the flip side is you could spend an eternity in heaven, but the whole thing just seems silly. Reincarnation, on the other hand, at-least bases your next life off of the doings of your past one. I still don't buy into it either, but at-least it's somewhat more reasonable than the Christian afterlife theory.

The main point of this thread is because even though I find Reincarnation more reasonable, there is one thing that I don't understand. Where are all the new humans coming from? What I mean by that is that if reincarnation is true and we all lived past lives, how are we seeing an increase in population instead of remaining at a stagnant number? Where are all of these new souls coming from?

The new humans are coming from souls who wish to experience the material energy/world, The souls are already in existence either on this planet in lower material life forms, or on other planets, according to Vedic philosophy, and when the time is right for them to either receive a new body through their karmic reactions, or through their desires, they acquire that body by natures direction.


Someone once told me that since humans have caused the extinctions of millions of creatures and plants, the new humans are the old energy of those animals and plants coming back to keep the "world balance" equal. I don't understand this either though. Like, what, 3 dodo birds equal 1 human in the next life? I can get the concept of the world having a certain amount of life-energy, and that the increase in humans could be the physical manifestation of the lost life-energy of other lifeforms, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Could someone more knowledgeable on the Buddhist concept of Reincarnation please explain to me how this works?

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 8:32:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/11/2015 2:44:25 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2015 12:05:50 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 4/11/2015 11:02:09 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2015 8:54:09 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:


Wait, what? Are you saying my question came about because of dreams or that the theory of reincarnation itself was birthed from the dreams of men? If you could clarify that a little I'd be appreciative.

Everything man learns comes from various thoughts that come into his mind, whether it's visions, dreams or just simple thoughts that are contrary to anything that exists in this world. Artists, musicians, poets, inventors, architects, philosophers, scientists, etc. all get thoughts, visions or dreams directly from the mind of God without them knowing where their thoughts come from. Most people believe their thoughts are created by their own brains, which is what deceives them from knowing that all thoughts come from our Creator.

So the idea of reincarnation came into the minds of men thousands of years ago because of some dreams that they were experiencing life in a different kind of body like the dream I experienced of having the body of an airplane. Most likely some people dreamed of being some sort of beast or bird or fish in the sea. These dreams would give them the reason to contemplate reincarnation and believing they existed as one of these creatures at an earlier time.

However, they don't understand that everything we visibly observe are only illusions that aren't real. God can make His people believe they are experiencing life as many different creatures in their visions and dreams they have. In the next age, we will all experience life in many different bodies and understand that everything we experience is only a dream or vision.

Really? Is there any scripture that can back up your description of this new age to come? I'd be interested to hear more about this new age.

Only God can teach us saints the deeper meanings of the symbolic words and phrases used in the Bible. The Bible itself can't teach anyone because it can't speak to the reader to let them know if their interpretations are true or not. This is why there are so many different Christian denominations today. They all believe in different interpretations of what they read in the Bible. This has separated the Christians who don't agree with each other.

This sounds a lot like the hologram theory that some scientists are fond of. I've also heard people say that this world and our lives could really just be some highly advanced simulator program that an intelligent species is running. There are several theories that kinda parallel this view of yours. I'd like to hear your take on it some more though, perhaps more details so I can compare yours to the similar theories floating around in the scientific community.

There are millions of different theories in the world about how God created us and formed the visible objects we perceive to be real. For every question that pops into people's minds about this matter, there is a different answer by them. This is how God keeps His people in a strong delusion while using us saints to teach us exactly how He created us and formed our flesh out of this invisible realm that He created.

Since our Creator is the one who taught me directly from His mind, I have learned that He created a computing language of vibrations which is what He uses to create a program called Eternal Life with characters called man and beasts along with all the other visible objects we will see as the program is played out through each created man and beast. A rock won't be able to experience being a rock but a created being ( man or beast ) can experience observing a rock, plant, and whatever other objects ( illusions ) that the created being observes and senses with his various created senses that aren't real either.

None of God's creation is real because it's only a simulation.

I experienced a reoccurring dream when I was a teenager. The dream was about my body being a crop dusting airplane flying low to the ground spraying fields with chemicals. The dream was so real that it was the most exhilarating experience I have ever experienced in this world. Our Creator used this dream as a way to teach me the future and how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise.

I still don't think I fully understand. Is this a new age on earth, or our future experience in heaven? Or is this new age literally gonna be heaven on earth? Also. What exactly do you mean when you say that we'll have different bodies or can switch bodies to something else like a bird or plane?

Think of every object you perceive as an illusion that isn't real. Even the earth and the rest of the celestial bodies you see in the sky are only illusions that aren't real.

The Heavenly kingdom of God is His computing language called vibrations. One wavelength of a vibration is ONE bit of information which is similar to the 0 and a 1 in binary code for our computers we build here in this age. From this Heavenly kingdom comes forth visible objects that can only be observed by a created observer ( man and beasts ). Each observer is like a computer processor who gets a tiny portion of information from this language of vibrations to compute into languages that each observer can understand with the various senses each observer possesses such as sight, smell, taste, touch, etc. These senses are also illusions that aren't real but this is what makes up an individual person or beast within the virtual program we're experiencing together.

Each observer, such as a created man, will be reborn into Paradise ( New Heaven and Earth ) with two bodies that look alike. One body will be a male and the other body will be a female and together as ONE complete man, they will experience the same visions and dreams together, but as individual people. So while you're in a dream experience together, you will see each other but with different backgrounds. This means you, as an individual ) will see something completely different than the partner you're with. When you start your individual dream, you may be in a completely different body than the last dream you experienced together. Similar to what computer game players do today when they switch from one simulation game to another game. Today, you can go from being a huge robotic machine in one simulation game to being a weird looking creature from another planet in a different simulation game. So it's a lot like this that God has shown me how

Each created man will be reborn in Paradise with two bodies, One body will be a male and the other will be a female. These two bodies will appear in every individual dream together but in different bodies. When you look at your partner, you will see a different body than when you're in the world together with the rest of God's people. You won't be able to see your whole body from your own individual perspective but you will learn that it's almost exactly like the body that you're partner is in. You will be able to see your arms, legs and so on like you can in this world today but you will never see your whole body. That's because we won't have mirrors or reflective lighting off of pools of water to see your face in while living in Paradise.

Wait, in paradise I'll be reborn with both a male and separate female body? Two bodies for one soul?

Yes, each created man was created to have two bodies instead of just one body. The first created man to wake up in this world had two bodies. One body was a male and the other one was a female. But all their offspring were only birthed into one body as a male and female. This explains why we have so radically different looking bodies that can appear to be male or female or both depending on how they dress or do their hair. This also explains why some bodies are homosexua
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 11:14:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The idea of Reincarnation has always fascinated me. I find it to be much more reasonable than the heaven/hell theory. For starters, the idea of spending all of eternity in hell for only a lifetime worth of sins just doesn't match up. I know Christians will respond by saying that the flip side is you could spend an eternity in heaven, but the whole thing just seems silly. Reincarnation, on the other hand, at-least bases your next life off of the doings of your past one. I still don't buy into it either, but at-least it's somewhat more reasonable than the Christian afterlife theory.

The main point of this thread is because even though I find Reincarnation more reasonable, there is one thing that I don't understand. Where are all the new humans coming from? What I mean by that is that if reincarnation is true and we all lived past lives, how are we seeing an increase in population instead of remaining at a stagnant number? Where are all of these new souls coming from?

The new humans are coming from souls who wish to experience the material energy/world, The souls are already in existence either on this planet in lower material life forms, or on other planets, according to Vedic philosophy, and when the time is right for them to either receive a new body through their karmic reactions, or through their desires, they acquire that body by natures direction.

Okay, I can understand that. I'm somewhat familiar with Vedic philosophy, and have heard the theory that there are other planets, each with their own karmic lessons for the soul visiting that planet to learn. I failed to consider that while originally posing this question. For some reason I thought solely of Earth, and that is what was limiting my ability to answer my own question. The increasing number certainly makes more sense when considering the possibility of the new souls coming from other planets. Thanks!

Someone once told me that since humans have caused the extinctions of millions of creatures and plants, the new humans are the old energy of those animals and plants coming back to keep the "world balance" equal. I don't understand this either though. Like, what, 3 dodo birds equal 1 human in the next life? I can get the concept of the world having a certain amount of life-energy, and that the increase in humans could be the physical manifestation of the lost life-energy of other lifeforms, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Could someone more knowledgeable on the Buddhist concept of Reincarnation please explain to me how this works?

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.


http://en.wikipedia.org...

Nice, I'll definitely check out Dr. Ian Stevenson and his work. I'm already very familiar with multiple cases of young children remembering past lives, past family members of their previous life, and even the location of their previous death. The whole thing is wildly fascinating to me, and seems to be producing much more proof for reincarnation compared to any other post-life theories stemming from religions.

Again, thank you for your response! It's exactly what I was hoping for.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 12:08:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 11:14:14 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 4/11/2015 2:53:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The idea of Reincarnation has always fascinated me. I find it to be much more reasonable than the heaven/hell theory. For starters, the idea of spending all of eternity in hell for only a lifetime worth of sins just doesn't match up. I know Christians will respond by saying that the flip side is you could spend an eternity in heaven, but the whole thing just seems silly. Reincarnation, on the other hand, at-least bases your next life off of the doings of your past one. I still don't buy into it either, but at-least it's somewhat more reasonable than the Christian afterlife theory.

The main point of this thread is because even though I find Reincarnation more reasonable, there is one thing that I don't understand. Where are all the new humans coming from? What I mean by that is that if reincarnation is true and we all lived past lives, how are we seeing an increase in population instead of remaining at a stagnant number? Where are all of these new souls coming from?

The new humans are coming from souls who wish to experience the material energy/world, The souls are already in existence either on this planet in lower material life forms, or on other planets, according to Vedic philosophy, and when the time is right for them to either receive a new body through their karmic reactions, or through their desires, they acquire that body by natures direction.

Okay, I can understand that. I'm somewhat familiar with Vedic philosophy, and have heard the theory that there are other planets, each with their own karmic lessons for the soul visiting that planet to learn. I failed to consider that while originally posing this question. For some reason I thought solely of Earth, and that is what was limiting my ability to answer my own question. The increasing number certainly makes more sense when considering the possibility of the new souls coming from other planets. Thanks!

I'd like to thank you also for your response, I'd like to point out that it isn't necessary to refer or include other planets, although I also like this option, but just that there can be enough lower material life forms on this planet, that evolve upwards into the human life form.


Someone once told me that since humans have caused the extinctions of millions of creatures and plants, the new humans are the old energy of those animals and plants coming back to keep the "world balance" equal. I don't understand this either though. Like, what, 3 dodo birds equal 1 human in the next life? I can get the concept of the world having a certain amount of life-energy, and that the increase in humans could be the physical manifestation of the lost life-energy of other lifeforms, but for some reason it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Could someone more knowledgeable on the Buddhist concept of Reincarnation please explain to me how this works?

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.


http://en.wikipedia.org...

Nice, I'll definitely check out Dr. Ian Stevenson and his work. I'm already very familiar with multiple cases of young children remembering past lives, past family members of their previous life, and even the location of their previous death. The whole thing is wildly fascinating to me, and seems to be producing much more proof for reincarnation compared to any other post-life theories stemming from religions.

Again, thank you for your response! It's exactly what I was hoping for.

You are welcome, and what I also find extremely fascinating is that those who are born with birth defects and memories of the past life where they obtained the injuries that seem to have past over into the new life.

Fascinating stuff.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,027
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 12:30:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 12:10:58 PM, johnlubba wrote:
Also can you send me a friend request as I am unable to send you one.

Thanks

Friend request sent. I hope we can continue this dialogue again if I ever have more reincarnation inquiries. I am appreciative of your thoughts and input, it's always a pleasure hearing from people who are more knowledgeable than myself on such things, thanks again!
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 12:34:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM, johnlubba wrote:

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.


http://en.wikipedia.org...

Unfortunately, the work of Stevenson was not science, his methods did not allow for falsifiability. His method employed subjective validation as the same process for cold readings. Any cases that were either unconfirmed or debunked, Stevenson refused to hold them accountable towards his hypothesis.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 12:55:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 12:34:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM, johnlubba wrote:

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.


http://en.wikipedia.org...


Unfortunately, the work of Stevenson was not science, his methods did not allow for falsifiability. His method employed subjective validation as the same process for cold readings. Any cases that were either unconfirmed or debunked, Stevenson refused to hold them accountable towards his hypothesis.

Just how do you account for children that have memories of a previous life and are born with the birth defects from the previous life's injures. ? How are you supposed to apply a science to that?
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 2:19:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Reincarnation is not an exclusively Buddhist belief. Many pagan religions involved a belief in reincarnation too.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 2:52:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 12:55:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 4/13/2015 12:34:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM, johnlubba wrote:

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.


http://en.wikipedia.org...


Unfortunately, the work of Stevenson was not science, his methods did not allow for falsifiability. His method employed subjective validation as the same process for cold readings. Any cases that were either unconfirmed or debunked, Stevenson refused to hold them accountable towards his hypothesis.

Just how do you account for children that have memories of a previous life and are born with the birth defects from the previous life's injures. ? How are you supposed to apply a science to that?

Lots of reasons, some I've already mentioned above, others include:

- Deceitful parents of those children.
- Hoaxes, frauds, unreliable testimonies, lying - many cases were discarded as a result of this
- Alternative explanations
- Cryptomnesia.

And, of course, the huge problem of providing an explanation for how a personality can survive death and transfer to another body, something Stevenson had no answer for. And, while Stevenson did indeed create a case that there is not "no" evidence to support reincarnation, there is no compelling evidence to support it, let alone convincing evidence.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 4:34:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Take the SUPERSTITIOUS elements out of your concepts and what you SEE then CAN'T be described with known human words and descriptions as SUPERSTITION RULES over the earthly many that are VERY BU$Y trying to HIDE and cover up ANYTHING that might GET IN THE WAY of WHAT they would like to TRY and believe.

You can't understand grown up mature thinking with a make believe and pretend mature grown up mindset.

You get out of Life and ALL else WHAT YOU put in to it.

If YOU have others doing your thinking and taking on the responsibilities for what you would rather not for whatever reasons. You end up with the confusion that can be found all around us.

I take a look around this forum and notice that there are NO solutions found or discovered and that most ALL of what is written on these boards is mostly people playing their make believe and pretend realities as if it was some sort of REALITY beyond the deceptions and lies called good that it Truly is in HONEST 100% FACT that can be measured and weighed IF you leave out the KID STUFF.

Don't like what I wrote?

Best advice is to either GROW UP or try your very best to ignore what I write that makes you feel crabby, afraid and judged.

YOU judge yourselves and the guilt you try and DENY is YOUR own personal guilt that are the wages of your denial of the Truth that is NOT subjective or vague.

Most prefer their little worlds that they run around in trying to see if they can run fast enough to ESCAPE what they don't like about themselves.

If you can't LOVE and understand yourself with PURE HONEST Truth and responsibilities.

HOW can you have what is required to LOVE and understand others?

I KNOW and understand myself very well and I have a deep LOVE for myself as I personally find myself to be most overly wonderful and then some.

If you don't feel that way about yourself, then just maybe the God or scientific theories you are trying to follow and believe in are just make believe and pretend mostly and you get make believe and pretend results from make believe and pretend thoughts and actions.

Plenty of killing and wars over disagreements in who has the best make believe and pretend ways.

Why play make believe and pretend reality when you can be REALITY it's self?

works for me as I AM FREE from the torments of Hell as I already have my place in so called Heaven.

let me play you a tune on my harp and sing you a little song

swing low, sweet chariot
coming for to carry me home
swing low, sweet chariot
a coming to a carry me home

I looked over the forums and what did I see
a coming for to hang me on a tree

a large hoard of dreamers and schemers a coming my away
cause their rejection and denial is a getting in their way

coming for to bury me their way

swing low sweet chariot, just like santa, claus his flying reindeer and his sleigh...

HEY
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 4:36:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 2:52:36 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/13/2015 12:55:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 4/13/2015 12:34:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM, johnlubba wrote:

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.


http://en.wikipedia.org...


Unfortunately, the work of Stevenson was not science, his methods did not allow for falsifiability. His method employed subjective validation as the same process for cold readings. Any cases that were either unconfirmed or debunked, Stevenson refused to hold them accountable towards his hypothesis.

Just how do you account for children that have memories of a previous life and are born with the birth defects from the previous life's injures. ? How are you supposed to apply a science to that?

Lots of reasons, some I've already mentioned above, others include:

- Deceitful parents of those children.
- Hoaxes, frauds, unreliable testimonies, lying - many cases were discarded as a result of this
- Alternative explanations
- Cryptomnesia.

And, of course, the huge problem of providing an explanation for how a personality can survive death and transfer to another body, something Stevenson had no answer for. And, while Stevenson did indeed create a case that there is not "no" evidence to support reincarnation, there is no compelling evidence to support it, let alone convincing evidence.

Dismissing the cases which account as evidence, as hoaxes or frauds or people out to decieve him, doesn't explain how a child can be born with a birth defect that coreesponds to an injury sunstained in the previous life, and of which, they can remember intimate details which can be verified by the relatives of the deceased, this phenomenon is not only recorded by Ian Stevenson, there is a departement at the university of Virginia where they are still carrying on the investigation and collecting more data, Jim Tucker who is Professor of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the university has carried over his work and written many books on the subject. It may interest you that even Sam Harris has endorsed Dr Ian Stevenson works claiming that twenty cases for reincarnation make for curious reading.

To claim there is no evidence is wrong, there is, but there is just no pyhsical process by which to verify it, but it doesn't mean they are not true, it just means there is no way to scientifically verify, the transmigration of the soul, and in the words of the great sceptic Carl Sagan, That A case of Psi that derserves serious study, that sometimes little children remember details of a past life, which upon checking to out to be accurate, and which could not be explained in any other way, but reincarnation.

I try to keep an open mind,
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 4:55:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 4:36:57 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 4/13/2015 2:52:36 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/13/2015 12:55:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 4/13/2015 12:34:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM, johnlubba wrote:

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.


http://en.wikipedia.org...


Unfortunately, the work of Stevenson was not science, his methods did not allow for falsifiability. His method employed subjective validation as the same process for cold readings. Any cases that were either unconfirmed or debunked, Stevenson refused to hold them accountable towards his hypothesis.

Just how do you account for children that have memories of a previous life and are born with the birth defects from the previous life's injures. ? How are you supposed to apply a science to that?

Lots of reasons, some I've already mentioned above, others include:

- Deceitful parents of those children.
- Hoaxes, frauds, unreliable testimonies, lying - many cases were discarded as a result of this
- Alternative explanations
- Cryptomnesia.

And, of course, the huge problem of providing an explanation for how a personality can survive death and transfer to another body, something Stevenson had no answer for. And, while Stevenson did indeed create a case that there is not "no" evidence to support reincarnation, there is no compelling evidence to support it, let alone convincing evidence.



Dismissing the cases which account as evidence, as hoaxes or frauds or people out to decieve him, doesn't explain how a child can be born with a birth defect that coreesponds to an injury sunstained in the previous life, and of which, they can remember intimate details which can be verified by the relatives of the deceased, this phenomenon is not only recorded by Ian Stevenson, there is a departement at the university of Virginia where they are still carrying on the investigation and collecting more data, Jim Tucker who is Professor of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the university has carried over his work and written many books on the subject. It may interest you that even Sam Harris has endorsed Dr Ian Stevenson works claiming that twenty cases for reincarnation make for curious reading.

It totally understand that and even mentioned that Stevenson did indeed produce some evidence"for curious reading", however the evidence he produced was only considered as such by him simply because he was unable to verify whether or not the parents were lying, or whether Cryptomnesia was involved, or whether it was a hoax, alternative explanations, etc. If Stevenson could not verify those things, he considered them valid cases for reincarnation. This was the flaw scientists pointed out to him, yet he was adamant. Twenty cases out of a potential 3000 is not a very good track record, considering all the work Stevenson did.


To claim there is no evidence is wrong, there is, but there is just no pyhsical process by which to verify it, but it doesn't mean they are not true, it just means there is no way to scientifically verify, the transmigration of the soul, and in the words of the great sceptic Carl Sagan, That A case of Psi that derserves serious study, that sometimes little children remember details of a past life, which upon checking to out to be accurate, and which could not be explained in any other way, but reincarnation.

Well, I think that is the point being made, is that there very well could be an alternative explanation rather than reincarnation, it's just that the reason did not make itself apparent.

It's similar to UFO sightings. People claim they see them and when a terrestrial explanation does not make itself apparent, they consider the sighting valid. That isn't reasonable or rational to make that conclusion. Indeed, it is a logical fallacy.

I try to keep an open mind,

I can see that, John.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/13/2015 6:11:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/13/2015 4:55:24 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/13/2015 4:36:57 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 4/13/2015 2:52:36 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/13/2015 12:55:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 4/13/2015 12:34:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/12/2015 3:44:39 AM, johnlubba wrote:

For a scientific account you may want to look at the work, of Dr Ian Stevenson who carried out over 3000 case studies documented in the western literature.


http://en.wikipedia.org...


Unfortunately, the work of Stevenson was not science, his methods did not allow for falsifiability. His method employed subjective validation as the same process for cold readings. Any cases that were either unconfirmed or debunked, Stevenson refused to hold them accountable towards his hypothesis.

Just how do you account for children that have memories of a previous life and are born with the birth defects from the previous life's injures. ? How are you supposed to apply a science to that?

Lots of reasons, some I've already mentioned above, others include:

- Deceitful parents of those children.
- Hoaxes, frauds, unreliable testimonies, lying - many cases were discarded as a result of this
- Alternative explanations
- Cryptomnesia.

And, of course, the huge problem of providing an explanation for how a personality can survive death and transfer to another body, something Stevenson had no answer for. And, while Stevenson did indeed create a case that there is not "no" evidence to support reincarnation, there is no compelling evidence to support it, let alone convincing evidence.



Dismissing the cases which account as evidence, as hoaxes or frauds or people out to decieve him, doesn't explain how a child can be born with a birth defect that coreesponds to an injury sunstained in the previous life, and of which, they can remember intimate details which can be verified by the relatives of the deceased, this phenomenon is not only recorded by Ian Stevenson, there is a departement at the university of Virginia where they are still carrying on the investigation and collecting more data, Jim Tucker who is Professor of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the university has carried over his work and written many books on the subject. It may interest you that even Sam Harris has endorsed Dr Ian Stevenson works claiming that twenty cases for reincarnation make for curious reading.

It totally understand that and even mentioned that Stevenson did indeed produce some evidence"for curious reading"

At least we have established that there is evidence,

, however the evidence he produced was only considered as such by him simply because he was unable to verify whether or not the parents were lying, or whether Cryptomnesia was involved, or whether it was a hoax, alternative explanations, etc.

This doesn't explain away the birth defects which correlate with the deceased.

If Stevenson could not verify those things, he considered them valid cases for reincarnation. This was the flaw scientists pointed out to him, yet he was adamant. Twenty cases out of a potential 3000 is not a very good track record, considering all the work Stevenson did.

No this is just secpticsm, and the cases derserve more explanation, Stevensons produced twenty of his most prominent, out of three thousand. And although cases are rare, more cases are documented by other academics. The data is there if you do the research. Ultimately you can choose not to believe it, or call them liers, or a hoax, but that doesn't explain it away.



To claim there is no evidence is wrong, there is, but there is just no pyhsical process by which to verify it, but it doesn't mean they are not true, it just means there is no way to scientifically verify, the transmigration of the soul, and in the words of the great sceptic Carl Sagan, That A case of Psi that derserves serious study, that sometimes little children remember details of a past life, which upon checking to out to be accurate, and which could not be explained in any other way, but reincarnation.

Well, I think that is the point being made, is that there very well could be an alternative explanation rather than reincarnation, it's just that the reason did not make itself apparent.

It's similar to UFO sightings. People claim they see them and when a terrestrial explanation does not make itself apparent, they consider the sighting valid. That isn't reasonable or rational to make that conclusion. Indeed, it is a logical fallacy.

That's a strawman.


I try to keep an open mind,

I can see that, John.

Yes, I don't just dismiss the evidence, although it's perfectly understandable not to expect a physical process for the transmigration of the soul, I would expect to have cases like these. And other academics are also carrying out investigations become convinced. I'm more interested in that, rather than disregarding it.