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Is it worth it?

Mhykiel
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4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/16/2015 2:23:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

Why make an argument. Prove the light exists.
DanneJeRusse
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4/16/2015 2:32:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

http://ocean.si.edu...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
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4/16/2015 2:47:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:23:37 PM, TBR wrote:

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

Why make an argument. Prove the light exists.

I'm unaware of any proof that was not intimately attached to an argument. Could you elaborate?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/16/2015 2:50:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:47:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:23:37 PM, TBR wrote:

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

Why make an argument. Prove the light exists.

I'm unaware of any proof that was not intimately attached to an argument. Could you elaborate?

Well then, let me be clear. Don't tell me there is light, you in this silly little thought exercise, can run clear tests. Take me to the light. Do I agree it is light, or just you being silly.
Electric-Eccentric
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4/16/2015 2:58:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Interesting post in that it shows that the "blind fish" that SAW the Light would HAVE to use words, descriptions and bubbles to try and translate the unknown into the known.

It is much like the old movies where different peoples/cultures would meet and have a language barrier. They would use sign language and dance about and sing and make odd noises.

Understanding is as understanding does just as stupid is as stupid does and such...

As for something being "worth it".

All seems to depend on the VALUE that is placed on what ever and what not.

I learned many years ago that it wasn't that I couldn't explain CLEARLY to the "blind fish" about the Light and that it was REAL.

I learned that most CHOOSE to TRY and believe what ever they can day dream up with the short cuts and excuses they can find on their personal path in Life/life.

I have been dealing with "others" all my Life and I have been doing this internet gig for many years observing and interacting with the best that was to be found.

I AM the undefeated champion of exposing deceptions and lies called good with a One Truth that is not subjective and vague.

Those that are not familiar with me or Skyangel or others such as us that are more interested in the REAL Truth that is not subjective and vague, then in the many versions of subjective and vague truths that those of the lost, blind and deceived by their own personal free will choices.

long deep breath.....

will see the proof that I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life that EXPOSES the deceptions and lies of the superstitious mindset.

I AM saying and claiming that I KNOW that I AM correct and have NO doubts about it 100% as I AM 100% superstition FREE.

It is the magic crap of the superstitious realm that people get lost in.

You can't find and KNOW the REAL TRUTH without understanding and knowing the make believe and pretend truths, invisible God/gods and other such make believe and pretend concepts that are very popular in a world filled with people that would rather PRETEND that they are growing up and learning, then do the work and take on the RESPONSIBILITIES of being a grown up in REAL TRUTH.

Most prefer being lazy day dreamers and wishing that some one else or something else pays the bill and does all the hard and NO FUN stuff for them.

MOST of the blind fish prefer remaining blind and just dreaming that they can see as they then have a better CHANCE of possible ESCAPE from what bothers them in Honest 100% Truth and Reality.

Is it worth it?

What I have is priceless and pure as it is the freedom that man made words and descriptions can't describe as I AM not of THIS world.

I require NO superstitious elements for my Way, Truth and Life.

But then I AM not of the popular opinions,traditions, rituals, fads and trends.

I AM just a little clay pot of thoughts that takes full responsibility for my thoughts and actions.

I require no invisible Gods or swiss cheeze scientific theories and such to have a clear understanding of WHO I AM and who others are.

nothing new under the sun...
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/16/2015 6:17:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

None. Fish with disfunctional eyes cannot convince other blind fish that they can "see" anything different to what the rest can "see" by arguing with them about it.
The best thing the fish could do is take the rest of the fish to the place they supposedly "saw" light and show it to them so they can "see" for themselves.

The blind are accustomed to "seeing" in the dark. They like to believe their darkness is light and they tend to believe light is darkness especially when the light blinds their dysfunctional eyes even more.

What does your thread title have to do with blind fish?

Are you asking whether it is worth it to see light or are you asking whether it is worth it to try to share your experience of seeing light?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,613
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4/16/2015 6:32:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

No argument for the small fish is required at all if we use the Mhykiel School of Logic. The small fish merely needs to declare, "Light Exists!" and then demand the other fish prove it wrong via universal negative. :)
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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4/17/2015 12:18:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 6:32:08 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

No argument for the small fish is required at all if we use the Mhykiel School of Logic. The small fish merely needs to declare, "Light Exists!" and then demand the other fish prove it wrong via universal negative. :)

Tick
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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4/17/2015 2:45:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

Well light does exist, that is easy to prove. There is no such evidence a deity exists, if that is the point you are trying to make in a silly roundabout way!
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
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4/17/2015 2:45:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

No argument could convince the members of her school that were totally blind. A simple science experiment would do it though. For instance, swim near the surface where the beam hits the water and measure the slight temperature change. Evidence works every time. Thank you for demonstrating the important of evidence when investigating reality.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,215
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4/17/2015 3:53:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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4/17/2015 4:56:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

She can not make any argument. However she can rely on trust and personal integrity to make her close friends, or her fans, believe her. If I were her, I would go to that place with other half-blinded fish everyday, in hopes we can see the light again together, and so I gain even more credibility. Once I have my team of light-lovers, I would need to convince blinded fish that they have no vision but my team does (of course this is impossible if the cave is fully in darkness all the time) in order to make them understand that there's a world out there that can be seen, but that they won't see it because they lack sight, and therefore they should (or at least be open to) trust us.
Mhykiel
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4/17/2015 5:11:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 6:17:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

None. Fish with disfunctional eyes cannot convince other blind fish that they can "see" anything different to what the rest can "see" by arguing with them about it.
The best thing the fish could do is take the rest of the fish to the place they supposedly "saw" light and show it to them so they can "see" for themselves.

The blind are accustomed to "seeing" in the dark. They like to believe their darkness is light and they tend to believe light is darkness especially when the light blinds their dysfunctional eyes even more.

What does your thread title have to do with blind fish?

Are you asking whether it is worth it to see light or are you asking whether it is worth it to try to share your experience of seeing light?

Ignorance is bliss and wisdom brings sorrow. How is it worth seeing the light and being unable to convince anyone else, except a small group or are half as blind as you are?
RuvDraba
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4/17/2015 5:45:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

Easy, Mhykiel. She needs to recognise and own responsibility for her own bias and fallability as part of the system she claims to have experienced.

She needs to recognise that all fish have similar eyes, but don't all have similar experiences, and infer subjectivity from that. She needs to acknowledge that she's not the first fish to claim to have seen light, and that she herself doesn't believe the prior accounts of other fishies.

Then she needs to challenge herself to show that her experience is an independent part of the environment, and not simply a combination of ignorance, suggestibility and vanity.

And if she can answer that then she'll have evidence other fishies can use.

If she can't, then she needs to keep doubting and questioning until she can, and not skip that step, and swim around telling other fishies how very important she is.
Mhykiel
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4/17/2015 6:04:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:53:00 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.

Not if by the time they got back there it was night time. They have been living in a cave with no concept of day and night.
Mhykiel
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4/17/2015 6:05:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 4:56:35 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

She can not make any argument. However she can rely on trust and personal integrity to make her close friends, or her fans, believe her. If I were her, I would go to that place with other half-blinded fish everyday, in hopes we can see the light again together, and so I gain even more credibility. Once I have my team of light-lovers, I would need to convince blinded fish that they have no vision but my team does (of course this is impossible if the cave is fully in darkness all the time) in order to make them understand that there's a world out there that can be seen, but that they won't see it because they lack sight, and therefore they should (or at least be open to) trust us.

I think you really put some unbias honest thought into this Oto, Thank you. Interesting suggestion. Maybe a more practical one than that is unlikely to exist.
Skyangel
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4/17/2015 6:18:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:53:00 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.

Can the totally BLIND observe any LIGHT at all ?
Does the observation ability not depend on having the ability to SEE in the first place?
DanneJeRusse
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4/17/2015 6:22:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 6:04:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:53:00 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.

Not if by the time they got back there it was night time. They have been living in a cave with no concept of day and night.

LOL. That's so lame, dude.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Harikrish
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4/17/2015 6:27:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The best argument would be proof that the light exists and rather than just describing the experience the fish could bring back items that the blind fish have never tasted or could recognize. In short provide evidence.
Christians can also do the same when they claim they experienced God or the Holy Spirit. They can produce evidence that have never been revealed before.
There are many things only God would know and that can be easily verified. But to go back to the Bronze Age or search the scriptures for new material is just repetitious nonsense.
Mhykiel
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4/17/2015 6:42:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 6:27:02 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The best argument would be proof that the light exists and rather than just describing the experience the fish could bring back items that the blind fish have never tasted or could recognize. In short provide evidence.
Christians can also do the same when they claim they experienced God or the Holy Spirit. They can produce evidence that have never been revealed before.
There are many things only God would know and that can be easily verified. But to go back to the Bronze Age or search the scriptures for new material is just repetitious nonsense.

Sounds interesting. What evidence could the fish show the others, especially the blind ones?

Show them warm water? they would say it was a vent or she peed on them.

Show them the light reflecting off a mirror? They can't see light and she and few others only partially see it.

Make a device which detects light? Based on what? Maybe she will call it a "ghost box"
Skyangel
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4/17/2015 7:04:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 5:11:17 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/16/2015 6:17:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The blind are accustomed to "seeing" in the dark. They like to believe their darkness is light and they tend to believe light is darkness especially when the light blinds their dysfunctional eyes even more.

What does your thread title have to do with blind fish?

Are you asking whether it is worth it to see light or are you asking whether it is worth it to try to share your experience of seeing light?

Ignorance is bliss and wisdom brings sorrow.

Then why do you think people search for wisdom, knowledge, etc in an attempt to become wise and educated?
Why not simply live in blissful ignorance?

How is it worth seeing the light and being unable to convince anyone else, except a small group or are half as blind as you are?

Some seem to think it is worth it because it makes them feel "special" to be able to "see" "special things" which other cannot "see" Those who get overly excited about their 'findings" attempt to share their experiences because their excitement motivates them to share in spite of being ridiculed by the blind who do not wish to open their "blind eyes" and "see"(understand).

I guess "worth" and value is all subjective in the end and all "fish" need to decide for themselves whether it is worth being ridiculed, mocked, rejected, etc, for claiming to "see" what the blind cannot see, especially when the "seeing fish" are incapable of opening the eyes of the blind.
Skyangel
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4/17/2015 7:24:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 2:45:12 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

Well light does exist, that is easy to prove. There is no such evidence a deity exists, if that is the point you are trying to make in a silly roundabout way!

If you can understand the fish represents people and we are not talking about any physical fish, can you understand "The Light" represents understanding and we are not talking about physical light either?

None of us can force anyone else to understand anything in spite of most healthy people being capable of understanding what they really want to understand. Some are obviously incapable of understanding some things due to disfunctional brain problems. It is up to the healthy to do what they can to heal the sick. Sometimes they can be healed and sometimes they cannot.

Understanding takes personal effort. No one else can do it for us.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,215
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4/17/2015 10:16:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 6:04:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:53:00 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.

Not if by the time they got back there it was night time. They have been living in a cave with no concept of day and night.

Still only lasts a portion of the time, if we are going to extend the concept of these fish having some semblance of being able to explain things, then surely we must be able to grant the ability to recognize a pattern of the light's appearance.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/17/2015 10:49:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:16:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/17/2015 6:04:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:53:00 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.

Not if by the time they got back there it was night time. They have been living in a cave with no concept of day and night.

Still only lasts a portion of the time, if we are going to extend the concept of these fish having some semblance of being able to explain things, then surely we must be able to grant the ability to recognize a pattern of the light's appearance.

Agreed. So your solution is based on everyone's personal experience and timing.
FaustianJustice
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4/17/2015 10:53:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:49:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 10:16:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/17/2015 6:04:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:53:00 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.

Not if by the time they got back there it was night time. They have been living in a cave with no concept of day and night.

Still only lasts a portion of the time, if we are going to extend the concept of these fish having some semblance of being able to explain things, then surely we must be able to grant the ability to recognize a pattern of the light's appearance.

Agreed. So your solution is based on everyone's personal experience and timing.

Yes. Predictable pattern to a stimuli. If the light keeps occurring at the same time, and the fish can be invited to observe it at any given time, we have satisfied your question. The light behaves in a predictable metric.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Mhykiel
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4/17/2015 11:40:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:53:18 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/17/2015 10:49:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 10:16:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/17/2015 6:04:31 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 3:53:00 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.

Not if by the time they got back there it was night time. They have been living in a cave with no concept of day and night.

Still only lasts a portion of the time, if we are going to extend the concept of these fish having some semblance of being able to explain things, then surely we must be able to grant the ability to recognize a pattern of the light's appearance.

Agreed. So your solution is based on everyone's personal experience and timing.

Yes. Predictable pattern to a stimuli. If the light keeps occurring at the same time, and the fish can be invited to observe it at any given time, we have satisfied your question. The light behaves in a predictable metric.

Not everything in existence is predictable. But that is one possible solution.
FaustianJustice
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4/17/2015 11:49:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

The irony is that the fish would have say:
"Come with me, let me show you the light".

More over, when the school gets there, there should be, ya know, immediate and observable light.

Not if by the time they got back there it was night time. They have been living in a cave with no concept of day and night.

Still only lasts a portion of the time, if we are going to extend the concept of these fish having some semblance of being able to explain things, then surely we must be able to grant the ability to recognize a pattern of the light's appearance.

Agreed. So your solution is based on everyone's personal experience and timing.

Yes. Predictable pattern to a stimuli. If the light keeps occurring at the same time, and the fish can be invited to observe it at any given time, we have satisfied your question. The light behaves in a predictable metric.

Not everything in existence is predictable. But that is one possible solution.

Admittedly, should the light come from something erratic, like the headlights of cars passing by or... something along those lines, yeah, it would get problematic. I can only attest for my solution to be from daylight, so it might be imperfect for what you were shooting for.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Mhykiel
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4/19/2015 2:33:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 2:32:17 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/16/2015 2:15:14 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
Picture a pitch black cave with some fish in it. The ancestors of these fish used to live in the light, but now thier eyes are dysfunctional. Some are completely blind while others partial.

One day a small fish was swimming in a part of the cave pool and saw a beam of light. The small fish ran back to the others. Becuase of her partially blind eyes she could barely describe what she experienced. And had few words to describe the event. Words like 'saw' changed meaning and aren't even used anymore.

What kind of arguments could the small fish make to convince her school that 'light' exists?

http://ocean.si.edu...

Again eyes formed to detect something in the environment.

your link does nothing to address the points being made. or to explain why a sensory organ would evolve if what it perceived was not in the environment.

thanks for the meaningless trash troll.