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hallucinations?

Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/17/2015 6:56:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Has anyone ever had a vision or hallucination about x-rays?

Is it possible to hallucinate about something you have no ability to perceive?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/17/2015 9:45:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 6:56:58 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Has anyone ever had a vision or hallucination about x-rays?

Is it possible to hallucinate about something you have no ability to perceive?

Sure. It's possible to hallucinate that you can feel the x-rays penetrating your skin when they are taken, you can hallucinate that x-rays are being used to control your brain. As far as a 'vision' goes, that's just another form of hallucination so the answer is decidedly yes.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/17/2015 9:49:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Of course not. Evolution is a process that entails entire populations over millennia of time. Perception is an individual trait and it depends upon the sensory and cognitive abilities of that individual. We didn't 'evolve' the perception of anything specific, we evolved reactions and autonomous functions to certain perceptions such as pain or danger. Our ability to hypothesize a form of energy we could not directly experience is an emergent property of our brain called intelligence and imagination.

Your question is sophomoric at best, most probably trollish since it is so ridiculous.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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4/17/2015 9:58:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 6:56:58 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Has anyone ever had a vision or hallucination about x-rays?

Is it possible to hallucinate about something you have no ability to perceive?

X-rays are merely electromagnetic radiation that has higher energy/frequency than the visible light spectrum and lower than gamma rays. We can't perceive X-rays with our eyes, but they will certainly kill us with long exposure to them.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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4/17/2015 9:59:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

X-rays are present during our evolution.

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Huh?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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4/17/2015 10:03:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Wait, is this some crap argument for the existence of god by asking how people could hallucinate gods if there were no gods?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/17/2015 10:30:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Coincidence. Some sensory organ that provides some function (like seeing) became also able to perceive x-rays.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/17/2015 11:45:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 10:30:08 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Coincidence. Some sensory organ that provides some function (like seeing) became also able to perceive x-rays.

Don't you think the x-rays would have to be present for the new sensory organ to propagate through a population?

If x rays not present the eye would be a blind eye. Because it wouldn't perceive anything.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/17/2015 11:56:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 11:45:20 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 10:30:08 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Coincidence. Some sensory organ that provides some function (like seeing) became also able to perceive x-rays.

Don't you think the x-rays would have to be present for the new sensory organ to propagate through a population?

If x rays not present the eye would be a blind eye. Because it wouldn't perceive anything.

The point I was trying to make is this:
Consider a hypothetical animal which evolved over time to have eye like organs. These organs originally granted improved chances of survival and hence spread in the population. They resemble the perception capapabilities of our eyes with the special feature that the chemicals that trigger nerve cells react to x-rays, too, although these animals were never exposed to them. The ability to perceive x-rays would be a mere side effect to the ability to perceive regular light, it just happens that the chemicals react to both.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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4/17/2015 12:07:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 11:45:20 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 10:30:08 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Coincidence. Some sensory organ that provides some function (like seeing) became also able to perceive x-rays.

Don't you think the x-rays would have to be present for the new sensory organ to propagate through a population?

If x rays not present the eye would be a blind eye. Because it wouldn't perceive anything.

"The visible spectrum of a bee is shifted when compared to the visible spectrum of a human. The visible spectrum, for a human with normal vision, stretches from 800 mu to 400 mu. The visible spectrum, for a bee, stretches from 650 mu to 300 mu. This means that the visible spectrum for bees is shifted to shorter wavelengths. The visible spectrum is "shortened for the bees in the red, but it is extended into the ultraviolet," a color that a human with normal vision can not see."

http://static.sewanee.edu...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/17/2015 3:15:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 11:56:21 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/17/2015 11:45:20 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 10:30:08 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Coincidence. Some sensory organ that provides some function (like seeing) became also able to perceive x-rays.

Don't you think the x-rays would have to be present for the new sensory organ to propagate through a population?

If x rays not present the eye would be a blind eye. Because it wouldn't perceive anything.

The point I was trying to make is this:
Consider a hypothetical animal which evolved over time to have eye like organs. These organs originally granted improved chances of survival and hence spread in the population. They resemble the perception capapabilities of our eyes with the special feature that the chemicals that trigger nerve cells react to x-rays, too, although these animals were never exposed to them. The ability to perceive x-rays would be a mere side effect to the ability to perceive regular light, it just happens that the chemicals react to both.

That's an interesting scenario for seeing xray and visible light. But you concur the visible light is present in the enviroment to propagate throught the population.

For instance it is proposed that it took 7 mutations to evolve primate eyes that see more in the infrared spectrum into human eyes that see visible light. But for visible light seeing eyes to establish, there had to be light in that spetrum present, and beneficial to the population to see visible light over infrared.

So would you agree that a sensory organ to evolve must be reacting to something i' the enviroment. And when that activation is lost (like fish in a cave) the evolution of the sensory organ degrades into vestigial non functioning nature.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
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4/17/2015 3:40:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 3:15:00 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 11:56:21 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/17/2015 11:45:20 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/17/2015 10:30:08 AM, Fkkize wrote:
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Coincidence. Some sensory organ that provides some function (like seeing) became also able to perceive x-rays.

Don't you think the x-rays would have to be present for the new sensory organ to propagate through a population?

If x rays not present the eye would be a blind eye. Because it wouldn't perceive anything.

The point I was trying to make is this:
Consider a hypothetical animal which evolved over time to have eye like organs. These organs originally granted improved chances of survival and hence spread in the population. They resemble the perception capapabilities of our eyes with the special feature that the chemicals that trigger nerve cells react to x-rays, too, although these animals were never exposed to them. The ability to perceive x-rays would be a mere side effect to the ability to perceive regular light, it just happens that the chemicals react to both.

That's an interesting scenario for seeing xray and visible light. But you concur the visible light is present in the enviroment to propagate throught the population.

For instance it is proposed that it took 7 mutations to evolve primate eyes that see more in the infrared spectrum into human eyes that see visible light. But for visible light seeing eyes to establish, there had to be light in that spetrum present, and beneficial to the population to see visible light over infrared.

So would you agree that a sensory organ to evolve must be reacting to something i' the enviroment. And when that activation is lost (like fish in a cave) the evolution of the sensory organ degrades into vestigial non functioning nature.

Yes.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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4/17/2015 4:12:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Bacterial resistance to antibiotics is a pretty good analog for your question. Within a population of bacteria, some members of that population are potentially resistant to one or more antibiotics before that population ever comes into contact with them. The mutation occurs first, then the antibiotics act as a selective pressure that wipes out the non-resistant members. Likewise, it's possible for any organism to develop a mutation to detect something that it hasn't yet been exposed to, or that doesn't yet exist. Without selective pressure, it's unlikely that mutation would become fixed within the population, but it's still possible. That's especially true if the mutation is positively related to another beneficial gene.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/17/2015 4:32:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 4:12:42 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Bacterial resistance to antibiotics is a pretty good analog for your question. Within a population of bacteria, some members of that population are potentially resistant to one or more antibiotics before that population ever comes into contact with them. The mutation occurs first, then the antibiotics act as a selective pressure that wipes out the non-resistant members. Likewise, it's possible for any organism to develop a mutation to detect something that it hasn't yet been exposed to, or that doesn't yet exist. Without selective pressure, it's unlikely that mutation would become fixed within the population, but it's still possible. That's especially true if the mutation is positively related to another beneficial gene.

For selective preasure to take place the main effect has to relate to an enviromental factor, do you agree?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/17/2015 6:10:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 9:49:08 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/17/2015 7:00:29 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Doesn't what we perceive have to be present during our evolution?

How would we evolve the perception of somekind of energy absent that energy?

Of course not. Evolution is a process that entails entire populations over millennia of time. Perception is an individual trait and it depends upon the sensory and cognitive abilities of that individual. We didn't 'evolve' the perception of anything specific, we evolved reactions and autonomous functions to certain perceptions such as pain or danger. Our ability to hypothesize a form of energy we could not directly experience is an emergent property of our brain called intelligence and imagination.

Your question is sophomoric at best, most probably trollish since it is so ridiculous.

How does one discern something imagined from the cognitive from the sensory stimulation?

All perception is cognitive.