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Supernatural Realm

bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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4/18/2015 11:56:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Supernatural Realm.
There are many who claim the existence of a supernatural realm.
I hear there be gods and demons and goblins in this realm, also that jinn and ghosts and fairies spend their time there, there be giants and devils and leprechauns too and angels and spirits.

There are many who claim an intimate knowledge of this supernatural realm and it is you that I address here.

Can you explain for us the societal interactions of these inhabitants that we might better understand this realm. A realm that many claim is of far more import than the natural realm that we occupy.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Look at the definition of "supernatural".

Supernatural is not synonymous with fairy tale events. they are events that lack scientific understanding and or appear to suspend general laws of nature.

The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.
TheUncannyN
Posts: 95
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4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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4/19/2015 1:49:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/18/2015 11:56:02 PM, bulproof wrote:
Supernatural Realm.
There are many who claim the existence of a supernatural realm.
I hear there be gods and demons and goblins in this realm, also that jinn and ghosts and fairies spend their time there, there be giants and devils and leprechauns too and angels and spirits.

There are many who claim an intimate knowledge of this supernatural realm and it is you that I address here.

Can you explain for us the societal interactions of these inhabitants that we might better understand this realm. A realm that many claim is of far more import than the natural realm that we occupy.

Obviously there are many people who believe in myths and fictional characters. Those people live in what they like to believe is a realm of supernatural awareness. Unbelievers in this realm call it fantasy land. Humans are the inhabitants of this "place". They live in their own imaginary world where they speak to invisible friends.
There are also claimed paranormal activities which some people indulge in and unexplained phenomenon which some like to attribute to a supernatural realm.
Mediums and Psychics dabble in this realm which is basically includes being in tune with ones own instincts and premonitions as well as ones own very creative imagination. It is about making sense of "abstract thoughts".
Unbelievers call some of these activities "good luck" or "lucky guess" when predictions come true and call it a con when they do not.
There are many con artists in the world which like to pretend they hear from dead people etc. They make money from gullible people who wish to hear from dead relatives and will pay for some so called psychics to tell them what they wish to hear.
Religion basically does the same thing except instead of getting people to listen to spirits of dead people talking to them they make members believe they are "hearing from God" and the religious leaders are speaking for God in much the same way psychics speak for dead people and tell the hearers what they want to hear.
It is not hard to give comforting words to people who are looking for comfort and if they wish to believe their dead relatives are still alive in a spirit realm, there are plenty of con artists who take advantage of those who really want to believe what they say is true.
Gullible people get drawn into the fantasy of it all and end up believing it is some kind of reality. Skeptics are just amused and entertained by it most of the time. Some who are awake to the scams make an effort to wake up those who are deceived by those scams. However, many prefer to live in their fantasies than face reality that dead people do not speak to anyone and supernatural beings do not exist any place other than in myths, fiction and fantasy.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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4/19/2015 7:33:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Look at the definition of "supernatural".

Supernatural is not synonymous with fairy tale events. they are events that lack scientific understanding and or appear to suspend general laws of nature.

The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Why did you bring fairy tales into the discussion?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,240
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4/19/2015 8:43:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 7:33:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Look at the definition of "supernatural".

Supernatural is not synonymous with fairy tale events. they are events that lack scientific understanding and or appear to suspend general laws of nature.

The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Why did you bring fairy tales into the discussion?

Point of origin.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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4/19/2015 8:57:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 8:43:11 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/19/2015 7:33:01 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
Look at the definition of "supernatural".

Supernatural is not synonymous with fairy tale events. they are events that lack scientific understanding and or appear to suspend general laws of nature.

The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Why did you bring fairy tales into the discussion?

Point of origin.

Covered in the OP.
Many people claim a supernatural realm and the supernatural entities I mentioned are claimed by those people.
Do you consider those claims fairy tales?
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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4/19/2015 10:41:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
We don't have very many supernaturalists defending the realm they claim is as obvious as the natural realm.
Nor do they seem interested in supporting the various entities alleged to occupy this supernatural realm. Especially since there are so many!
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,
TheUncannyN
Posts: 95
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4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.
TheUncannyN
Posts: 95
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4/19/2015 12:11:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

We couldn't explain how fire worked for the longest time, either. It was unexplained. Gravity, too. Eh. Better just toss those out the window since atheist trolls refuse to believe crap at face value.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 12:20:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:11:25 PM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

We couldn't explain how fire worked for the longest time, either. It was unexplained. Gravity, too. Eh. Better just toss those out the window since atheist trolls refuse to believe crap at face value.

And now fire is not supernatural. Now electricity is not supernatural. Now magnets are not supernatural.

What is your point. that some day in the future we will have the scientific words to describe god?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/19/2015 12:20:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

For the theist troll:

"That is what Ping Yuan and co-workers from Northwest Normal University in Lanzhou, China, now report. They had set up spectrometers on the remote Qinghai Plateau of northwest China to investigate ordinary lightning, which is frequent in this region. During one late-evening thunderstorm in July 2012, they saw ball lightning appear just after a lightning strike about 900 meters from their apparatus and were able to record a spectrum and high-speed video footage of the ball.

The recorded glow was about 5 meters across"the actual size of the ball was much smaller"and it changed from white to reddish during the second or so that it lasted. Although the darkness prevented the researchers from estimating the ball"s altitude, they saw it drift horizontally for about 10 meters and ascend about 3 meters. Yuan says that this is the first time ball lightning has been seen to be created by a cloud-to-ground lightning strike.

The researchers found that the spectrum contained several emission lines from silicon, iron, and calcium"all elements expected to be abundant in soil. One would also expect aluminum to be present, given its abundance in soil minerals. But the researchers couldn"t confirm that, as there are no emission lines of neutral aluminum atoms within the spectral range of their instrument (wavelengths of 400"1000 nanometers). The team also used their video data to plot the ball lightning"s intensity and apparent diameter as they varied in time, down to the millisecond time-scale."

http://physics.aps.org...
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Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
TheUncannyN
Posts: 95
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4/19/2015 12:31:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:20:16 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:11:25 PM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

We couldn't explain how fire worked for the longest time, either. It was unexplained. Gravity, too. Eh. Better just toss those out the window since atheist trolls refuse to believe crap at face value.

And now fire is not supernatural. Now electricity is not supernatural. Now magnets are not supernatural.

What is your point. that some day in the future we will have the scientific words to describe god?

Better get to work, then.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 12:44:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:20:17 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

For the theist troll:

"That is what Ping Yuan and co-workers from Northwest Normal University in Lanzhou, China, now report. They had set up spectrometers on the remote Qinghai Plateau of northwest China to investigate ordinary lightning, which is frequent in this region. During one late-evening thunderstorm in July 2012, they saw ball lightning appear just after a lightning strike about 900 meters from their apparatus and were able to record a spectrum and high-speed video footage of the ball.

The recorded glow was about 5 meters across"the actual size of the ball was much smaller"and it changed from white to reddish during the second or so that it lasted. Although the darkness prevented the researchers from estimating the ball"s altitude, they saw it drift horizontally for about 10 meters and ascend about 3 meters. Yuan says that this is the first time ball lightning has been seen to be created by a cloud-to-ground lightning strike.

The researchers found that the spectrum contained several emission lines from silicon, iron, and calcium"all elements expected to be abundant in soil. One would also expect aluminum to be present, given its abundance in soil minerals. But the researchers couldn"t confirm that, as there are no emission lines of neutral aluminum atoms within the spectral range of their instrument (wavelengths of 400"1000 nanometers). The team also used their video data to plot the ball lightning"s intensity and apparent diameter as they varied in time, down to the millisecond time-scale."

http://physics.aps.org...

how does this explain ball lighting in clear weather?
how does this explain ball lighting see to move through walls?

Way to miss the point again troll. You think because scientist record one example of ball lightning and attempt to explain it that that makes it an understood event.

You think scientist are high priest and you suckle and worship the words from their lips like it is gold.
TheUncannyN
Posts: 95
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4/19/2015 12:56:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:44:10 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:20:17 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

For the theist troll:

"That is what Ping Yuan and co-workers from Northwest Normal University in Lanzhou, China, now report. They had set up spectrometers on the remote Qinghai Plateau of northwest China to investigate ordinary lightning, which is frequent in this region. During one late-evening thunderstorm in July 2012, they saw ball lightning appear just after a lightning strike about 900 meters from their apparatus and were able to record a spectrum and high-speed video footage of the ball.

The recorded glow was about 5 meters across"the actual size of the ball was much smaller"and it changed from white to reddish during the second or so that it lasted. Although the darkness prevented the researchers from estimating the ball"s altitude, they saw it drift horizontally for about 10 meters and ascend about 3 meters. Yuan says that this is the first time ball lightning has been seen to be created by a cloud-to-ground lightning strike.

The researchers found that the spectrum contained several emission lines from silicon, iron, and calcium"all elements expected to be abundant in soil. One would also expect aluminum to be present, given its abundance in soil minerals. But the researchers couldn"t confirm that, as there are no emission lines of neutral aluminum atoms within the spectral range of their instrument (wavelengths of 400"1000 nanometers). The team also used their video data to plot the ball lightning"s intensity and apparent diameter as they varied in time, down to the millisecond time-scale."

http://physics.aps.org...

how does this explain ball lighting in clear weather?
how does this explain ball lighting see to move through walls?

Way to miss the point again troll. You think because scientist record one example of ball lightning and attempt to explain it that that makes it an understood event.

You think scientist are high priest and you suckle and worship the words from their lips like it is gold.

Ad hominem, non sequitur, strawman, moral equivalence. Your dialogues should no longer be brought forth for serious consideration.
Fly
Posts: 2,049
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4/19/2015 1:01:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/18/2015 11:56:02 PM, bulproof wrote:
Supernatural Realm.
There are many who claim the existence of a supernatural realm.
I hear there be gods and demons and goblins in this realm, also that jinn and ghosts and fairies spend their time there, there be giants and devils and leprechauns too and angels and spirits.

There are many who claim an intimate knowledge of this supernatural realm and it is you that I address here.

Can you explain for us the societal interactions of these inhabitants that we might better understand this realm. A realm that many claim is of far more import than the natural realm that we occupy.

The problem is that supernatural beings generally refuse to reveal themselves unless you first believe they exist, or at least believe in the possibility-- or so I have heard regarding paranormal activity.

If popular culture is any indication, with the possible exceptions of Patrick Swayze and Casper, I really don't think I want to be visited by ghosts anyway!

However, ball lightning seems to be the exception to this rule of non-belief. In fact, I might have witnessed it myself once... I cannot be sure because what my uncle and I witnessed was completely silent.

Wait-- maybe it is not an exception at all because it is not a supernatural occurrence in the first place... hmmm...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 1:02:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 12:56:27 PM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:44:10 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:20:17 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

For the theist troll:

"That is what Ping Yuan and co-workers from Northwest Normal University in Lanzhou, China, now report. They had set up spectrometers on the remote Qinghai Plateau of northwest China to investigate ordinary lightning, which is frequent in this region. During one late-evening thunderstorm in July 2012, they saw ball lightning appear just after a lightning strike about 900 meters from their apparatus and were able to record a spectrum and high-speed video footage of the ball.

The recorded glow was about 5 meters across"the actual size of the ball was much smaller"and it changed from white to reddish during the second or so that it lasted. Although the darkness prevented the researchers from estimating the ball"s altitude, they saw it drift horizontally for about 10 meters and ascend about 3 meters. Yuan says that this is the first time ball lightning has been seen to be created by a cloud-to-ground lightning strike.

The researchers found that the spectrum contained several emission lines from silicon, iron, and calcium"all elements expected to be abundant in soil. One would also expect aluminum to be present, given its abundance in soil minerals. But the researchers couldn"t confirm that, as there are no emission lines of neutral aluminum atoms within the spectral range of their instrument (wavelengths of 400"1000 nanometers). The team also used their video data to plot the ball lightning"s intensity and apparent diameter as they varied in time, down to the millisecond time-scale."

http://physics.aps.org...

how does this explain ball lighting in clear weather?
how does this explain ball lighting see to move through walls?

Way to miss the point again troll. You think because scientist record one example of ball lightning and attempt to explain it that that makes it an understood event.

You think scientist are high priest and you suckle and worship the words from their lips like it is gold.

Ad hominem, non sequitur, strawman, moral equivalence. Your dialogues should no longer be brought forth for serious consideration.

So you won't be responding to my previous questions and challenge for you to support your view?

I must have expected too much from an one lining atheist. Should you be put int he same bin as DanneJeRusse and bulprof. both of which are trolls.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/19/2015 1:08:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 1:02:17 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

I must have expected too much from an one lining atheist. Should you be put int he same bin as DanneJeRusse and bulprof. both of which are trolls.

LOL. Soon, Mhykiels 'troll bin' will be so full, he'll have to turn to other Christians to find disagreement and more trolls to fill his bin.

Troll = anyone who shows Mhykiel's fallacies and ignorance.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
TheUncannyN
Posts: 95
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4/19/2015 1:10:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 1:02:17 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:56:27 PM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:44:10 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:20:17 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

For the theist troll:

"That is what Ping Yuan and co-workers from Northwest Normal University in Lanzhou, China, now report. They had set up spectrometers on the remote Qinghai Plateau of northwest China to investigate ordinary lightning, which is frequent in this region. During one late-evening thunderstorm in July 2012, they saw ball lightning appear just after a lightning strike about 900 meters from their apparatus and were able to record a spectrum and high-speed video footage of the ball.

The recorded glow was about 5 meters across"the actual size of the ball was much smaller"and it changed from white to reddish during the second or so that it lasted. Although the darkness prevented the researchers from estimating the ball"s altitude, they saw it drift horizontally for about 10 meters and ascend about 3 meters. Yuan says that this is the first time ball lightning has been seen to be created by a cloud-to-ground lightning strike.

The researchers found that the spectrum contained several emission lines from silicon, iron, and calcium"all elements expected to be abundant in soil. One would also expect aluminum to be present, given its abundance in soil minerals. But the researchers couldn"t confirm that, as there are no emission lines of neutral aluminum atoms within the spectral range of their instrument (wavelengths of 400"1000 nanometers). The team also used their video data to plot the ball lightning"s intensity and apparent diameter as they varied in time, down to the millisecond time-scale."

http://physics.aps.org...

how does this explain ball lighting in clear weather?
how does this explain ball lighting see to move through walls?

Way to miss the point again troll. You think because scientist record one example of ball lightning and attempt to explain it that that makes it an understood event.

You think scientist are high priest and you suckle and worship the words from their lips like it is gold.

Ad hominem, non sequitur, strawman, moral equivalence. Your dialogues should no longer be brought forth for serious consideration.

So you won't be responding to my previous questions and challenge for you to support your view?

I must have expected too much from an one lining atheist. Should you be put int he same bin as DanneJeRusse and bulprof. both of which are trolls.

Start providing a challenge and asking questions which merit responses and then we'll talk. Until then, work on breaking your pettifogging habit and decide on a consistent definition for 'supernatural'. Now I recommend you step away from the keyboard before your apparent frustration embarasses you even further.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 1:13:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 1:08:37 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:02:17 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

I must have expected too much from an one lining atheist. Should you be put int he same bin as DanneJeRusse and bulprof. both of which are trolls.

LOL. Soon, Mhykiels 'troll bin' will be so full, he'll have to turn to other Christians to find disagreement and more trolls to fill his bin.

Troll = anyone who shows Mhykiel's fallacies and ignorance.

So instead of talking about what the point is, what do you want me to do?

I concede ball lightning is not supernatural anymore. Yeah it has been observed once by scientist and they came up with a explanation. yeah another entity has transitioned from the supernatural realm to the natural!! woo

I have no problem relabeling ball lightning as natural.

now do you want to address that the supernatural is a distinction based on ignorance.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 1:17:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 1:10:47 PM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:02:17 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:56:27 PM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:44:10 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:20:17 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:08:40 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:55:36 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 11:48:08 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:03:54 AM, TheUncannyN wrote:
At 4/19/2015 12:05:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
The delineation between the realm of the supernatural and the natural, is a veil of ignorance. there is no causal separation between them. It is an illusory distinction. If you had complete knowledge of everything there would be no supernatural event.

Assertion. We still have no reason to believe that there is anything supernatural to this universe. "Supernatural" and whatever definition you try to apply to it has and will always be a nebulous concept applicable to any number of religions and made-up tomfoolery (see: Thetans, ghosts, whatever).

James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge still stands.

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

that's my definition of supernatural.

Ball lightning is supernatural,

What bull. Ball lightning is not supernatural. Unexplained=/=supernatural.

Gee, it's such a pleasure discussing things with you atheist trolls.

How about instead of replying with a sentence that amounts to "Nuh-uh you are wrong."

If you wanted to advance the conversation and share the load of discourse you would make suggestions of what supernatural is and how they relate to the example "ball lightning".

But 2 can play these games. Nuh-uh it is what I said.

For the theist troll:

"That is what Ping Yuan and co-workers from Northwest Normal University in Lanzhou, China, now report. They had set up spectrometers on the remote Qinghai Plateau of northwest China to investigate ordinary lightning, which is frequent in this region. During one late-evening thunderstorm in July 2012, they saw ball lightning appear just after a lightning strike about 900 meters from their apparatus and were able to record a spectrum and high-speed video footage of the ball.

The recorded glow was about 5 meters across"the actual size of the ball was much smaller"and it changed from white to reddish during the second or so that it lasted. Although the darkness prevented the researchers from estimating the ball"s altitude, they saw it drift horizontally for about 10 meters and ascend about 3 meters. Yuan says that this is the first time ball lightning has been seen to be created by a cloud-to-ground lightning strike.

The researchers found that the spectrum contained several emission lines from silicon, iron, and calcium"all elements expected to be abundant in soil. One would also expect aluminum to be present, given its abundance in soil minerals. But the researchers couldn"t confirm that, as there are no emission lines of neutral aluminum atoms within the spectral range of their instrument (wavelengths of 400"1000 nanometers). The team also used their video data to plot the ball lightning"s intensity and apparent diameter as they varied in time, down to the millisecond time-scale."

http://physics.aps.org...

how does this explain ball lighting in clear weather?
how does this explain ball lighting see to move through walls?

Way to miss the point again troll. You think because scientist record one example of ball lightning and attempt to explain it that that makes it an understood event.

You think scientist are high priest and you suckle and worship the words from their lips like it is gold.

Ad hominem, non sequitur, strawman, moral equivalence. Your dialogues should no longer be brought forth for serious consideration.

So you won't be responding to my previous questions and challenge for you to support your view?

I must have expected too much from an one lining atheist. Should you be put int he same bin as DanneJeRusse and bulprof. both of which are trolls.

Start providing a challenge and asking questions which merit responses and then we'll talk. Until then, work on breaking your pettifogging habit and decide on a consistent definition for 'supernatural'. Now I recommend you step away from the keyboard before your apparent frustration embarasses you even further.

my definition of supernatural has not changed.

http://dictionary.reference.com...

Supernatural is a description of an event or subject determined by the ignorance of the observer.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/19/2015 1:23:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 1:17:10 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

LOL. But that quote works against you, not for you.

Bring to the future anyone who wrote in the Bible, the book YOU believe is true, and they will indeed consider every technology we have today as being magic. You believe evolution is magic, you believe abiogenesis is magic. Yet, you believe the creation of the universe by some entity is perfectly reasonable.

Does the world shout "Magic!" when the latest iPhone is revealed? Hilarious.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/19/2015 1:31:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 1:23:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:17:10 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

LOL. But that quote works against you, not for you.

Bring to the future anyone who wrote in the Bible, the book YOU believe is true, and they will indeed consider every technology we have today as being magic. You believe evolution is magic, you believe abiogenesis is magic. Yet, you believe the creation of the universe by some entity is perfectly reasonable.

Does the world shout "Magic!" when the latest iPhone is revealed? Hilarious.

The word magic, is what replaces supernatural. So any advanced technology would be indistinguishable from supernatural.

Again the difference between supernatural and natural is the observers ignorance.

The quote fits exactly with what i am saying.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/19/2015 1:52:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 1:31:27 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:23:58 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/19/2015 1:17:10 PM, Mhykiel wrote:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

LOL. But that quote works against you, not for you.

Bring to the future anyone who wrote in the Bible, the book YOU believe is true, and they will indeed consider every technology we have today as being magic. You believe evolution is magic, you believe abiogenesis is magic. Yet, you believe the creation of the universe by some entity is perfectly reasonable.

Does the world shout "Magic!" when the latest iPhone is revealed? Hilarious.

The word magic, is what replaces supernatural. So any advanced technology would be indistinguishable from supernatural.

Then, what I said above still applies. Is the iPhone supernatural? For someone who lived 20 centuries ago, it would be.

Again the difference between supernatural and natural is the observers ignorance.

And yet, that is what theists claim their gods are, supernatural entities, magical entities. Further more, you theists claim to know your god exists and claim you have relationships with your god. How can you know and have a relationship with something that YOU claim " is the observers ignorance"?

The quote fits exactly with what i am saying.

And, it continues to work against you, not for you.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
TheUncannyN
Posts: 95
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4/19/2015 2:07:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And yet, that is what theists claim their gods are, supernatural entities, magical entities. Further more, you theists claim to know your god exists and claim you have relationships with your god. How can you know and have a relationship with something that YOU claim " is the observers ignorance"?

Because he obviously has a more complete understanding than you do. You're just ignorant to his non-ignorance of ignorance.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/19/2015 2:15:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/19/2015 2:07:36 PM, TheUncannyN wrote:
And yet, that is what theists claim their gods are, supernatural entities, magical entities. Further more, you theists claim to know your god exists and claim you have relationships with your god. How can you know and have a relationship with something that YOU claim " is the observers ignorance"?

Because he obviously has a more complete understanding than you do. You're just ignorant to his non-ignorance of ignorance.

LOL. Good one.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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4/19/2015 2:18:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Mhyk, you have had a lot to say in this thread you just haven't addressed the topic or the questions posed in this thread.
As an expert on the supernatural realm I would appreciate you actually responding to the OP.
TIA
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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4/19/2015 2:33:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Can no-one describe the interactions present in the supernatural realm betwixt all of the inhabitants said to occupy said supernatural realm?
Yet you all know so much about this other realm and it's undeniable importance to the entire human race, how can it be that you can't answer my questions?