Total Posts:74|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Design

bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:39:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
We hear and read this word often from our godfearing fellow members.
I would like some of them to explain how they determine design.
Do they have "none design" with which to compare?
I would be most grateful for any of our godfearing brethren if they could explain.
TIA.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:44:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
That should read "non design", but do you for instance claim that the eye is obviously designed when one compares it to a grain of sand?
Which "non design" do you compare design to in order to differentiate?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 9:50:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you compare a rock with a clock, which one do you determine is designed?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,954
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,954
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,954
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:20:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?

The specified-complex information in plant and animal cell DNA infers intelligent design.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:27:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:20:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?

The specified-complex information in plant and animal cell DNA infers intelligent design.

Albeit the reviewal of an exorbitant amount of quality evidence suggests plant and animal cells to be of a direct consequences of natural origins.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,207
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:29:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

So God didn't design rocks even though he made everything?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,954
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:31:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:27:05 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:20:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?

The specified-complex information in plant and animal cell DNA infers intelligent design.

Albeit the reviewal of an exorbitant amount of quality evidence suggests plant and animal cells to be of a direct consequences of natural origins.

Abiogenesis faces an information problem. The original DNA molecule had specified and complex sequences of A,T,C, and G . Without this specification life wouldn't have been feasible. The specification was not the result of chemical necessity or evolutionary pressures.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,954
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:32:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:29:12 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

So God didn't design rocks even though he made everything?

A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that are specified and complex, do.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:34:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:31:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:27:05 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:20:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?

The specified-complex information in plant and animal cell DNA infers intelligent design.

Albeit the reviewal of an exorbitant amount of quality evidence suggests plant and animal cells to be of a direct consequences of natural origins.

Abiogenesis faces an information problem. The original DNA molecule had specified and complex sequences of A,T,C, and G . Without this specification life wouldn't have been feasible. The specification was not the result of chemical necessity or evolutionary pressures.

I'm not qualified to assess your comment and address them scientifically, however I can ponder why you think it is necessary to insert an intelligent entity into the mix instead of investigating it further?
anonymouswho
Posts: 431
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:37:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Where does Love, Good, Evil, and Intelligence come from? Were they present within the Singularity? Does this mean the Singularity had Intelligence? If the Singularity contained Intelligence, did it contain the means by which to use that Intelligence? If it contained the means by which to use Intelligence, did it use this Intelligence to Cause the universe into existence? If all these things are true, then is this verse accurate?

"He (The Singularity/One God) hath made the earth by his power (Big Bang/Great Cause), he hath established the world by his wisdom (Intelligence), and hath stretched out the heavens (Universe expansion) by his discretion." Jeremiah 10:12

Thank you friend and God bless you.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,954
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:41:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:34:00 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:31:53 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:27:05 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:20:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?

The specified-complex information in plant and animal cell DNA infers intelligent design.

Albeit the reviewal of an exorbitant amount of quality evidence suggests plant and animal cells to be of a direct consequences of natural origins.

Abiogenesis faces an information problem. The original DNA molecule had specified and complex sequences of A,T,C, and G . Without this specification life wouldn't have been feasible. The specification was not the result of chemical necessity or evolutionary pressures.

I'm not qualified to assess your comment and address them scientifically, however I can ponder why you think it is necessary to insert an intelligent entity into the mix instead of investigating it further?

It's not an inference based on ignorance, it's an inference to the best explanation. We know that intelligent beings create specified and complex information. If you were the one who stumbled upon the Rosetta Stone how would you know that it wasn't written through wind and erosion? Wind and erosion creates patterns all the time. The specificity and complexity of the patterns are what infer intelligent agency.

"KDIW FIWNS OFM DPMXJ PHLPW UJI" is just as likely to have occurred at random as the following sentence: FOUR SCORE AND SEVEN YEARS AGO"

The difference is in their specificity. One conveys useful information whereas the other does not. The original DNA molecule conveyed useful information (specified and complex) analogous to the useful information given in my above example.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:43:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:37:18 PM, anonymouswho wrote:
Where does Love, Good, Evil, and Intelligence come from? Were they present within the Singularity? Does this mean the Singularity had Intelligence? If the Singularity contained Intelligence, did it contain the means by which to use that Intelligence? If it contained the means by which to use Intelligence, did it use this Intelligence to Cause the universe into existence? If all these things are true, then is this verse accurate?

"He (The Singularity/One God) hath made the earth by his power (Big Bang/Great Cause), he hath established the world by his wisdom (Intelligence), and hath stretched out the heavens (Universe expansion) by his discretion." Jeremiah 10:12

Thank you friend and God bless you.

So rock or clock?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:44:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:20:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?

The specified-complex information in plant and animal cell DNA infers intelligent design.

To what specifications do you refer?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,954
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:46:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:44:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:20:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?

The specified-complex information in plant and animal cell DNA infers intelligent design.

To what specifications do you refer?

The arrangement of Adenine, Cytosine, Guanine, and Thymine in the DNA molecule. That arrangement is what carries the information content of the cell.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 10:56:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:46:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:44:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:20:45 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:15:25 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:12:22 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:11:04 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:02:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:59:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:56:30 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

Other things in nature, such as?

oranges

Whilst oranges can be modified given engineering and selective breeding, I disagree that oranges, the fruit, required an intelligent designer. How have you ascertained that oranges are a consequence of an intelligence?

The specified-complex information in plant and animal cell DNA infers intelligent design.

To what specifications do you refer?

The arrangement of Adenine, Cytosine, Guanine, and Thymine in the DNA molecule. That arrangement is what carries the information content of the cell.

In a clock? Interesting.
Now what makes the rock an example of intelligent design?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
anonymouswho
Posts: 431
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 11:15:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm not really sure what your asking. Are you asking if a rock requires an intelligent "designer"? No of course not. Does the rock require an Intelligent Creator? Absolutely. Otherwise, What Caused the rock to come into existence in the first place? However, after the rock is created, Wisdom is also required to bring about the many varieties of rock and to determine their properties. One rock is stronger, one is more conductive, one is more pleasant to the eye. Rocks are useful to mankind for a variety of reasons, such as copper wire, aluminum cans, iron building materials, and steal knife blades. They are equally harmful to mankind as well, as in lust for diamonds and gold, guns, and being the instrument used in the first murder of mankind.

Are you asking this as opposed to whether a clock requires an intelligent designer? Yes clocks also require intelligence, an intelligence that only man physically possesses. From where do we receive this intelligence since it is us alone who can design such complex devices? How did we understand to use rocks in the first place? Rocks are required for clocks to function, thus both the rock and the clock require intelligence.

Thank you and good to hear from you again. God bless.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 11:21:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 11:15:20 PM, anonymouswho wrote:
I'm not really sure what your asking. Are you asking if a rock requires an intelligent "designer"? No of course not. Does the rock require an Intelligent Creator? Absolutely. Otherwise, What Caused the rock to come into existence in the first place? However, after the rock is created, Wisdom is also required to bring about the many varieties of rock and to determine their properties. One rock is stronger, one is more conductive, one is more pleasant to the eye. Rocks are useful to mankind for a variety of reasons, such as copper wire, aluminum cans, iron building materials, and steal knife blades. They are equally harmful to mankind as well, as in lust for diamonds and gold, guns, and being the instrument used in the first murder of mankind.

Are you asking this as opposed to whether a clock requires an intelligent designer? Yes clocks also require intelligence, an intelligence that only man physically possesses. From where do we receive this intelligence since it is us alone who can design such complex devices? How did we understand to use rocks in the first place? Rocks are required for clocks to function, thus both the rock and the clock require intelligence.

Thank you and good to hear from you again. God bless.
And you don't recognise the circularity of these contentions.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 11:31:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

So God didn't design rocks even though he made everything?

A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that are specified and complex, do.

So, speaking generally then, the vast majority of existence doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Why are you focusing on the very limited things that, to you, do? What about all the other rocks, water, dead planets, burnt out or burning stars, vacuum of space... if none of that infers a designer, it seems the vast amount of lack of designer should give you perspective about what you think is designed.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
anonymouswho
Posts: 431
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 11:45:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes of course I recognize the circularity of my argument, but without an Initial Cause, then your question is unanswerable even by you. You suggest that a rock doesn't require intelligence, I suggest it does. I believe something Caused it to exist, it exists for a specific purpose, and an Intelligent Creator fashioned it in a variety of ways to bring about an ultimate purpose. You say 'No the rock just exists from Nothing and mankind (who also came from Nothing) has used an intelligence that it gained from Nothing to discover how to use the rock for an unfathomable amount of purposes." I'm sorry my friend but I don't see the logic there. Thank you and God bless.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2015 11:54:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 11:31:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

So God didn't design rocks even though he made everything?

A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that are specified and complex, do.

So, speaking generally then, the vast majority of existence doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Why are you focusing on the very limited things that, to you, do? What about all the other rocks, water, dead planets, burnt out or burning stars, vacuum of space... if none of that infers a designer, it seems the vast amount of lack of designer should give you perspective about what you think is designed.

The convergence of material in an arrangement to make life is intelligently designed.

As opposed to the causes of a rock that make it's convergence due to gravity and pressure.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/21/2015 12:06:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 11:54:34 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 11:31:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

So God didn't design rocks even though he made everything?

A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that are specified and complex, do.

So, speaking generally then, the vast majority of existence doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Why are you focusing on the very limited things that, to you, do? What about all the other rocks, water, dead planets, burnt out or burning stars, vacuum of space... if none of that infers a designer, it seems the vast amount of lack of designer should give you perspective about what you think is designed.

The convergence of material in an arrangement to make life is intelligently designed.

Doesn't that fall victim to the Texas marksman fallacy? It would appear as though bismuth crystals are intelligently designed, but they are just a rock. Or mineral, if your inner Schrader gets the better of you.


As opposed to the causes of a rock that make it's convergence due to gravity and pressure.

Why is life unique in its regard then? Don't get me wrong, life (at least as we understand it) is pretty awesome, but when you see the ingredients for a cake, it really doesn't matter how cool the cake looks, when compared to other cakes. Its all the same ingredients.

Tell ya what, if life were comprised of some material that was not literally found all over the planet, I could see that as being evidence of the supernatural or design.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/21/2015 12:22:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 12:06:31 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 4/20/2015 11:54:34 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 11:31:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:

The degree of specified-complexity.
Which one was that?

We can obviously tell that a clock is designed. A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that specified and complex, do.

So God didn't design rocks even though he made everything?

A rock doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Other things in nature, things that are specified and complex, do.

So, speaking generally then, the vast majority of existence doesn't infer an intelligent designer. Why are you focusing on the very limited things that, to you, do? What about all the other rocks, water, dead planets, burnt out or burning stars, vacuum of space... if none of that infers a designer, it seems the vast amount of lack of designer should give you perspective about what you think is designed.

The convergence of material in an arrangement to make life is intelligently designed.

Doesn't that fall victim to the Texas marksman fallacy? It would appear as though bismuth crystals are intelligently designed, but they are just a rock. Or mineral, if your inner Schrader gets the better of you.

I'm not talking about fractals arrangements or random agregate. I'm talking about the pattern found in life that is not repetative but semantic.




As opposed to the causes of a rock that make it's convergence due to gravity and pressure.

Why is life unique in its regard then? Don't get me wrong, life (at least as we understand it) is pretty awesome, but when you see the ingredients for a cake, it really doesn't matter how cool the cake looks, when compared to other cakes. Its all the same ingredients.

Tell ya what, if life were comprised of some material that was not literally found all over the planet, I could see that as being evidence of the supernatural or design.

Because it's not just ingredients. Which the cake is a bad example for even a simple cell. It's also arrangement.

A sun baked brick is mud, grass and sunlight. But the arrangement is such that we don't find sun baked bricks undesigned. And if we find one we look for a designer.

Barring historical reference. What measurements conclude a brick is designed and not natural?