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How can a good God allow suffering.

LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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4/20/2015 9:20:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Not at all. It's commendable that you recognize it as a problem. Many Christians can't bring themselves to face it.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/20/2015 9:25:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:20:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Not at all. It's commendable that you recognize it as a problem. Many Christians can't bring themselves to face it.

Thank you. That means a lot. I freely admit that my knowledge is finite. You can question religion and still have faith. If someone says otherwise, ignore them. Job questioned God, "Doubting Thomas demanded proof, Jacob got in a smackdown fight with the preincarnate Yeshua. You don't have to void your mind to be a Christian. You rock. :)
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/20/2015 9:26:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:20:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Not at all. It's commendable that you recognize it as a problem. Many Christians can't bring themselves to face it.

faced it. not a problem. When i think of an All good god, I think why not? I mean of course an all good god would make an entire universe, life, and all of this on earth just to give his little jar of clay anything and everything they want.

but the problem of Evil is so strong, maybe the atheist have it right.
I mean god didn't make me for his purpose.. obviously i made god for my purposes. And that's why i get so upset when god doesn't do what I want.
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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4/20/2015 9:28:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Don't feel bad at all. It Is important tone able to comprehend the issues with your viewpoint. No kind God would punish you for feeling sorry for those in need.
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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4/20/2015 9:34:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As a Jewish Christian prophesy bearer I bear spiritual information as to why God can't and doesn't help everyone in dire need. The Gospel of Humanity explains how God develops from the evolution of first, Life, then Consciousness, then Higher Consciousness or Intelligence, and this happens through the evolution of Life that has taken us to the point of human intelligence and beginnings of civilized life in societies. In short, God is us, developed as far as life and intelligence can be taken at "the End of Days" somewhere in our far future when Humanity and it may not look at all like us then, evolves into "God" with all the powers of God acquired through technological advances, to the point where we can literally create life by thought alone, this being "God" power and long expressed in ancient religions such as Gnosis. Until Humanity becomes God in our far future, God is highly limited to what can be done in the evolution of Life into Intelligence into God. And, btw, this all rests upon a fact that Creation, our Universe, is already a done deal, and we are stuck on the time-line of Intelligence's beginnings..so it's Miracles for us, and not general fixings of all human woes. Earthly life is preparation for the World to Come..
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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4/20/2015 9:44:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 8:58:55 PM, Double_R wrote:
Either he is not as good as you were taught, or he doesn't exist.

I am a fan of yours.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/20/2015 11:08:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

I'm a dystheist. A dystheist is someone that believes God is not wholly good or perfectly good, like some religions claim.

I believe that the God of this universe plays two parts, quite intentional: the role of a guiding, concerned creator and the role of a demon. I don't see a contradiction here because I don't perceive God as being perfect and free of arrogant, selfish compulsions. In fact, I believe God can be compared to an animal--and many animals display both concern for their young and vicious, aggressive attitudes towards many other things, frequently out of irritability, fear, and even jealousy.

I also believe that God is intentionally a devil because in order to sustain life and eliminate/restrain difficult dangers, there may need to be one, to frighten humanity but also to elevate their intelligence in a dangerous universe. I believe that many Christian views of God are accurate, but I also think several are inaccurate and I think one role that the devil plays is to make us more knowledgeable about ourselves and about our potentially-deadly universe.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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4/20/2015 11:11:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 11:08:56 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

I'm a dystheist. A dystheist is someone that believes God is not wholly good or perfectly good, like some religions claim.

I believe that the God of this universe plays two parts, quite intentional: the role of a guiding, concerned creator and the role of a demon. I don't see a contradiction here because I don't perceive God as being perfect and free of arrogant, selfish compulsions. In fact, I believe God can be compared to an animal--and many animals display both concern for their young and vicious, aggressive attitudes towards many other things, frequently out of irritability, fear, and even jealousy.

I also believe that God is intentionally a devil because in order to sustain life and eliminate/restrain difficult dangers, there may need to be one, to frighten humanity but also to elevate their intelligence in a dangerous universe. I believe that many Christian views of God are accurate, but I also think several are inaccurate and I think one role that the devil plays is to make us more knowledgeable about ourselves and about our potentially-deadly universe.
I thought you were a pantheist?
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/20/2015 11:19:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
One good analogy of God is like "the Force" in Star Wars. There's both a good side and a bad side, and each, surprisingly, serves a purpose; however, the good side benefits humanity more because, when we're aligned with it, it tends to satisfy our wants and our needs better. However, the dark side certainly does advance human understanding and knowledge unfortunately.

So why would God use both good and bad as teaching instruments? Because humans are naturally egocentric and we need to be taught restraints, consequences, and dangers, too, besides the rewards of being peaceful, understanding, and democratic.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/20/2015 11:20:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 11:11:22 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 11:08:56 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

I'm a dystheist. A dystheist is someone that believes God is not wholly good or perfectly good, like some religions claim.

I believe that the God of this universe plays two parts, quite intentional: the role of a guiding, concerned creator and the role of a demon. I don't see a contradiction here because I don't perceive God as being perfect and free of arrogant, selfish compulsions. In fact, I believe God can be compared to an animal--and many animals display both concern for their young and vicious, aggressive attitudes towards many other things, frequently out of irritability, fear, and even jealousy.

I also believe that God is intentionally a devil because in order to sustain life and eliminate/restrain difficult dangers, there may need to be one, to frighten humanity but also to elevate their intelligence in a dangerous universe. I believe that many Christian views of God are accurate, but I also think several are inaccurate and I think one role that the devil plays is to make us more knowledgeable about ourselves and about our potentially-deadly universe.
I thought you were a pantheist?

Yes; I'm a a pantheist. Pantheism and dystheism are not mutually exclusive.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/20/2015 11:25:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:30:43 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
Given my perspective, a well intended individual strays away from suffering and even seeks to diminish it.

This is the golden rule and the principle of greatest happiness in action. These moral principle seek to reduce suffering and misery on our world. These are holy codes humans must live by to increase mutual happiness and reward as much as possible.
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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4/20/2015 11:34:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 11:25:27 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:30:43 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
Given my perspective, a well intended individual strays away from suffering and even seeks to diminish it.

This is the golden rule and the principle of greatest happiness in action. These moral principle seek to reduce suffering and misery on our world. These are holy codes humans must live by to increase mutual happiness and reward as much as possible.

I agree, yet I am a bit tentative about your usage of the word holy. Are you referring to holy as a religious term?
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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4/20/2015 11:55:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 11:34:07 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 4/20/2015 11:25:27 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 4/20/2015 10:30:43 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
Given my perspective, a well intended individual strays away from suffering and even seeks to diminish it.

This is the golden rule and the principle of greatest happiness in action. These moral principle seek to reduce suffering and misery on our world. These are holy codes humans must live by to increase mutual happiness and reward as much as possible.

I agree, yet I am a bit tentative about your usage of the word holy. Are you referring to holy as a religious term?

I guess what I mean by holy is that it's vital to advancing a good life. I did imply a religious connotation, but the description I offer is actually what I technically mean.
Varrack
Posts: 2,410
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4/21/2015 12:02:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Because a good God gives free will to everyone, and when everyone has free will, some tend to use it in bad ways. If God were to disallow suffering, he would have to take away one's agency to choose, which would not be good of him.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,209
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4/21/2015 12:11:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:26:02 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:20:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Not at all. It's commendable that you recognize it as a problem. Many Christians can't bring themselves to face it.

faced it. not a problem. When i think of an All good god, I think why not? I mean of course an all good god would make an entire universe, life, and all of this on earth just to give his little jar of clay anything and everything they want.

but the problem of Evil is so strong, maybe the atheist have it right.
I mean god didn't make me for his purpose.. obviously i made god for my purposes. And that's why i get so upset when god doesn't do what I want.

No you don't get upset, you make excuses. You see mass starvation and earthquakes as good.
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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4/21/2015 12:13:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 12:02:37 AM, Varrack wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Because a good God gives free will to everyone, and when everyone has free will, some tend to use it in bad ways. If God were to disallow suffering, he would have to take away one's agency to choose, which would not be good of him.

Yes, because free will allows children to choose to be born into grinding poverty. Or as HIV infected babies from the rape of their mothers. Or abused by pedophile fathers. Or as victims of domestic violence by drug dependent or alcoholic parents. Yep, free will solves the problem nicely.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/21/2015 12:26:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 12:11:26 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:26:02 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:20:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Not at all. It's commendable that you recognize it as a problem. Many Christians can't bring themselves to face it.

faced it. not a problem. When i think of an All good god, I think why not? I mean of course an all good god would make an entire universe, life, and all of this on earth just to give his little jar of clay anything and everything they want.

but the problem of Evil is so strong, maybe the atheist have it right.
I mean god didn't make me for his purpose.. obviously i made god for my purposes. And that's why i get so upset when god doesn't do what I want.

No you don't get upset, you make excuses. You see mass starvation and earthquakes as good.

I don't see earthquakes as good or bad. Do you curse gravity when something falls on your foot and praise it when you don't float away?

Starvation is bad brought about by our and our forefathers choices. There are times of plenty and times of drought. If we were real stewards of the world than our desires we would not want for our needs.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,209
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4/21/2015 12:41:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 12:26:26 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 12:11:26 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:26:02 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:20:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Not at all. It's commendable that you recognize it as a problem. Many Christians can't bring themselves to face it.

faced it. not a problem. When i think of an All good god, I think why not? I mean of course an all good god would make an entire universe, life, and all of this on earth just to give his little jar of clay anything and everything they want.

but the problem of Evil is so strong, maybe the atheist have it right.
I mean god didn't make me for his purpose.. obviously i made god for my purposes. And that's why i get so upset when god doesn't do what I want.

No you don't get upset, you make excuses. You see mass starvation and earthquakes as good.

I don't see earthquakes as good or bad. Do you curse gravity when something falls on your foot and praise it when you don't float away?

People dying in earth quakes can easily be considered bad.

Starvation is bad brought about by our and our forefathers choices. There are times of plenty and times of drought. If we were real stewards of the world than our desires we would not want for our needs.

Famine is not always a matter of choice. If God controls the weather is that not a direct violation of free will?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,209
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4/21/2015 12:43:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

If you're going to be mad at Him, it should be over his permission of abortion. https://www.biblegateway.com...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/21/2015 12:49:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 12:41:47 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/21/2015 12:26:26 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 12:11:26 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:26:02 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:20:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Not at all. It's commendable that you recognize it as a problem. Many Christians can't bring themselves to face it.

faced it. not a problem. When i think of an All good god, I think why not? I mean of course an all good god would make an entire universe, life, and all of this on earth just to give his little jar of clay anything and everything they want.

but the problem of Evil is so strong, maybe the atheist have it right.
I mean god didn't make me for his purpose.. obviously i made god for my purposes. And that's why i get so upset when god doesn't do what I want.

No you don't get upset, you make excuses. You see mass starvation and earthquakes as good.

I don't see earthquakes as good or bad. Do you curse gravity when something falls on your foot and praise it when you don't float away?

People dying in earth quakes can easily be considered bad.

Starvation is bad brought about by our and our forefathers choices. There are times of plenty and times of drought. If we were real stewards of the world than our desires we would not want for our needs.

Famine is not always a matter of choice. If God controls the weather is that not a direct violation of free will.

We don't have dominion over the weather. So our will is not violated. As for Gods control I don't know why he brings a storm instead of sun light. But I don't judge God. And I don't judge him on man made morality
Le-vox-von-zhizn
Posts: 25
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4/21/2015 1:00:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

You should. I mean if you believe in God that means you believe he is perfect but you say you are angry at him thus disrespecting him. You are a Christian which is a religion which is a faith. A faith obviously requires faith not understanding.
Le-vox-von-zhizn
Posts: 25
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4/21/2015 1:04:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

There are many problems with this question. For one you believe in the flying spaghetti monster so obviously he's a bad god. Two the word "good" if you are a Christian then you know God is perfect so he is good thus the word was not needed. And 3 the very anger is disrespectful.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,209
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4/21/2015 1:10:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 12:49:10 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 12:41:47 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/21/2015 12:26:26 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 12:11:26 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:26:02 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:20:43 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:15:57 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 4/20/2015 9:11:06 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 4/20/2015 7:13:56 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
I am so angry at Him.

Welcome to the Problem of Evil (PoE).

Thank you. I freel like a bad Christian for asking. :(

Not at all. It's commendable that you recognize it as a problem. Many Christians can't bring themselves to face it.

faced it. not a problem. When i think of an All good god, I think why not? I mean of course an all good god would make an entire universe, life, and all of this on earth just to give his little jar of clay anything and everything they want.

but the problem of Evil is so strong, maybe the atheist have it right.
I mean god didn't make me for his purpose.. obviously i made god for my purposes. And that's why i get so upset when god doesn't do what I want.

No you don't get upset, you make excuses. You see mass starvation and earthquakes as good.

I don't see earthquakes as good or bad. Do you curse gravity when something falls on your foot and praise it when you don't float away?

People dying in earth quakes can easily be considered bad.

Starvation is bad brought about by our and our forefathers choices. There are times of plenty and times of drought. If we were real stewards of the world than our desires we would not want for our needs.

Famine is not always a matter of choice. If God controls the weather is that not a direct violation of free will.

We don't have dominion over the weather. So our will is not violated. As for Gods control I don't know why he brings a storm instead of sun light. But I don't judge God. And I don't judge him on man made morality

Our will is influenced by the weather, especially when it turns deadly. You don't judge God aka you don't think critically about Him.