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Hindus or Reicarnationists

EtrnlVw
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4/28/2015 10:45:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This inquiry is for the topic of reincarnation and the "god" of Hinduism for the purpose of clarity and understanding thank you...

Okay so correct me where I stray away from the appropriate concepts because I don't want to misunderstand them.

If our "souls" (consciousness, spirit ect..) are designed to reincarnate as a means of "becoming more aware of God", who directs that soul when one dies? Who is in control of what happens to a soul when they leave this body and how does it relate to physical conception, in other words how do you distinguish between the act of conception as opposed to just reincarnation? How do they intertwine? How does the timing work out? Does the "soul" have to wait until someone conceives lol? I'm just trying to understand how the physical part of birth correlates with reincarnation.

A concept that is strangely creepy to me but I am open to a different point of view however when I think about created beings and my own children the idea of reincarnation seems to counter the idea of people being original beings. In other words my children are just old souls that need to work out karma, that's kinda creepy how do you guys reconcile that? In Christianity individuals are original at birth (not the spirit BTW), we get one physical life and that's it then we move to the next, seems a bit more realistic but I'm open to ideas.

If I'm wrong it seems to me the basics of this belief system is that despite individuality we eventually lose individuality because we are believed to all be one consciousness, In other words all creation is just bits and pieces of one Being, this as well seems to counter the idea of individuality and original creations, how do you reconcile that? Or maybe it's not something that needs to be reconciled but how do you view individuality?
Do insects, plants, animals ect... all play the same role in reincarnation?

Is this the only level of creation? Or are there many? What happens to a "soul" if they meet the requirements of this life? What would be the next stage of existence for that soul?

And if you don't mind the questionnaire what exactly is god? Is it an entity or just a consciousness or a conscious state of being?

My own personal views (which are opinions) are that a person is a separate created being at birth, an original being with a combination of spirit and flesh. I would even say we have several layers but yes I would agree that we could be considered a "piece" of God in a sense because God is the creator of all life but I don't see the need to disregard the concept of will and created original entities.
I might even say that the reincarnated idea of creation is merely an illusion but more like a shattered mirror in which all things return to one would that be an accurate description? I'm not sure I could swallow that completely, could you elaborate on that some? What am I missing here thanks.

I believe (MO) that we do indeed reap what we sow and or live out "karma" but I've always understood that we do that in this life, not necessarily many. We learn right from wrong and reaping and sowing in this life and that determines what proceeds in the next, how different is that from your view?

What's really the point of creation if in the end it's just "god" working himself out in some illusory creation? I mean what exactly is the point of reincarnating for some purpose if we are all just god anyway lol? How does one rationalize this?

When "god" decides to break off into creation what is it's intent? Where does the process of reincarnating begin? At what level does it begin?

Pardon me if any of this sounds rude or condescending, this is just how I think and I'm very interested in spiritual things so if you coincide with these types of beliefs and you are a spiritual person please feel free to answer and correct my perceptions thanks.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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4/28/2015 1:38:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/28/2015 11:19:28 AM, bulproof wrote:
I'm coming back as a dinosaur.

So now the tactic conforms to the rules, Bulpoop will mock within the guidelines lol!! Good lil Bul, nice little lad you've become.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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4/29/2015 2:48:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/28/2015 10:45:34 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
This inquiry is for the topic of reincarnation and the "god" of Hinduism for the purpose of clarity and understanding thank you...


Okay so correct me where I stray away from the appropriate concepts because I don't want to misunderstand them.

If our "souls" (consciousness, spirit ect..) are designed to reincarnate as a means of "becoming more aware of God", who directs that soul when one dies? Who is in control of what happens to a soul when they leave this body and how does it relate to physical conception, in other words how do you distinguish between the act of conception as opposed to just reincarnation? How do they intertwine? How does the timing work out? Does the "soul" have to wait until someone conceives lol? I'm just trying to understand how the physical part of birth correlates with reincarnation.

A concept that is strangely creepy to me but I am open to a different point of view however when I think about created beings and my own children the idea of reincarnation seems to counter the idea of people being original beings. In other words my children are just old souls that need to work out karma, that's kinda creepy how do you guys reconcile that? In Christianity individuals are original at birth (not the spirit BTW), we get one physical life and that's it then we move to the next, seems a bit more realistic but I'm open to ideas.

If I'm wrong it seems to me the basics of this belief system is that despite individuality we eventually lose individuality because we are believed to all be one consciousness, In other words all creation is just bits and pieces of one Being, this as well seems to counter the idea of individuality and original creations, how do you reconcile that? Or maybe it's not something that needs to be reconciled but how do you view individuality?
Do insects, plants, animals ect... all play the same role in reincarnation?

Is this the only level of creation? Or are there many? What happens to a "soul" if they meet the requirements of this life? What would be the next stage of existence for that soul?

And if you don't mind the questionnaire what exactly is god? Is it an entity or just a consciousness or a conscious state of being?


My own personal views (which are opinions) are that a person is a separate created being at birth, an original being with a combination of spirit and flesh. I would even say we have several layers but yes I would agree that we could be considered a "piece" of God in a sense because God is the creator of all life but I don't see the need to disregard the concept of will and created original entities.
I might even say that the reincarnated idea of creation is merely an illusion but more like a shattered mirror in which all things return to one would that be an accurate description? I'm not sure I could swallow that completely, could you elaborate on that some? What am I missing here thanks.

I believe (MO) that we do indeed reap what we sow and or live out "karma" but I've always understood that we do that in this life, not necessarily many. We learn right from wrong and reaping and sowing in this life and that determines what proceeds in the next, how different is that from your view?

What's really the point of creation if in the end it's just "god" working himself out in some illusory creation? I mean what exactly is the point of reincarnating for some purpose if we are all just god anyway lol? How does one rationalize this?

When "god" decides to break off into creation what is it's intent? Where does the process of reincarnating begin? At what level does it begin?

Pardon me if any of this sounds rude or condescending, this is just how I think and I'm very interested in spiritual things so if you coincide with these types of beliefs and you are a spiritual person please feel free to answer and correct my perceptions thanks.

I am a Panentheist. I believe we are all manifestations of God. Our soul is Gods soul. From that perspective we have been everyone and everything that has ever existed and ever will. When I look at my children, I know they are a part of me. When I speak to others, I know they are part of me, when I speak to God, I am speaking to the ultimate eternal self. When I look out into the world, I see God everywhere. There is nothing to reconcile. On the other hand religions like Christianity seem impossible to reconcile to me.
EtrnlVw
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4/29/2015 8:13:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:48:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/28/2015 10:45:34 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
This inquiry is for the topic of reincarnation and the "god" of Hinduism for the purpose of clarity and understanding thank you...


Okay so correct me where I stray away from the appropriate concepts because I don't want to misunderstand them.

If our "souls" (consciousness, spirit ect..) are designed to reincarnate as a means of "becoming more aware of God", who directs that soul when one dies? Who is in control of what happens to a soul when they leave this body and how does it relate to physical conception, in other words how do you distinguish between the act of conception as opposed to just reincarnation? How do they intertwine? How does the timing work out? Does the "soul" have to wait until someone conceives lol? I'm just trying to understand how the physical part of birth correlates with reincarnation.

A concept that is strangely creepy to me but I am open to a different point of view however when I think about created beings and my own children the idea of reincarnation seems to counter the idea of people being original beings. In other words my children are just old souls that need to work out karma, that's kinda creepy how do you guys reconcile that? In Christianity individuals are original at birth (not the spirit BTW), we get one physical life and that's it then we move to the next, seems a bit more realistic but I'm open to ideas.

If I'm wrong it seems to me the basics of this belief system is that despite individuality we eventually lose individuality because we are believed to all be one consciousness, In other words all creation is just bits and pieces of one Being, this as well seems to counter the idea of individuality and original creations, how do you reconcile that? Or maybe it's not something that needs to be reconciled but how do you view individuality?
Do insects, plants, animals ect... all play the same role in reincarnation?

Is this the only level of creation? Or are there many? What happens to a "soul" if they meet the requirements of this life? What would be the next stage of existence for that soul?

And if you don't mind the questionnaire what exactly is god? Is it an entity or just a consciousness or a conscious state of being?


My own personal views (which are opinions) are that a person is a separate created being at birth, an original being with a combination of spirit and flesh. I would even say we have several layers but yes I would agree that we could be considered a "piece" of God in a sense because God is the creator of all life but I don't see the need to disregard the concept of will and created original entities.
I might even say that the reincarnated idea of creation is merely an illusion but more like a shattered mirror in which all things return to one would that be an accurate description? I'm not sure I could swallow that completely, could you elaborate on that some? What am I missing here thanks.

I believe (MO) that we do indeed reap what we sow and or live out "karma" but I've always understood that we do that in this life, not necessarily many. We learn right from wrong and reaping and sowing in this life and that determines what proceeds in the next, how different is that from your view?

What's really the point of creation if in the end it's just "god" working himself out in some illusory creation? I mean what exactly is the point of reincarnating for some purpose if we are all just god anyway lol? How does one rationalize this?

When "god" decides to break off into creation what is it's intent? Where does the process of reincarnating begin? At what level does it begin?

Pardon me if any of this sounds rude or condescending, this is just how I think and I'm very interested in spiritual things so if you coincide with these types of beliefs and you are a spiritual person please feel free to answer and correct my perceptions thanks.

I am a Panentheist. I believe we are all manifestations of God. Our soul is Gods soul. From that perspective we have been everyone and everything that has ever existed and ever will. When I look at my children, I know they are a part of me. When I speak to others, I know they are part of me, when I speak to God, I am speaking to the ultimate eternal self. When I look out into the world, I see God everywhere. There is nothing to reconcile. On the other hand religions like Christianity seem impossible to reconcile to me.

Thanks.

So basically individuality is merely an illusion? since it all returns to one form anyway?

What then exactly is the point of creation if not for the sake of individuality? The part that confuses me the most is why would god send us through this whole reincarnation process when we have no individuality to begin with, we are just little bits of god so why is there a need to undergo something so bizarre? seems a bit strange and contradictory to me but like I said I'm trying to understand what this intention is...
EtrnlVw
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4/29/2015 8:37:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 8:13:23 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/29/2015 2:48:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/28/2015 10:45:34 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
This inquiry is for the topic of reincarnation and the "god" of Hinduism for the purpose of clarity and understanding thank you...


Okay so correct me where I stray away from the appropriate concepts because I don't want to misunderstand them.

If our "souls" (consciousness, spirit ect..) are designed to reincarnate as a means of "becoming more aware of God", who directs that soul when one dies? Who is in control of what happens to a soul when they leave this body and how does it relate to physical conception, in other words how do you distinguish between the act of conception as opposed to just reincarnation? How do they intertwine? How does the timing work out? Does the "soul" have to wait until someone conceives lol? I'm just trying to understand how the physical part of birth correlates with reincarnation.

A concept that is strangely creepy to me but I am open to a different point of view however when I think about created beings and my own children the idea of reincarnation seems to counter the idea of people being original beings. In other words my children are just old souls that need to work out karma, that's kinda creepy how do you guys reconcile that? In Christianity individuals are original at birth (not the spirit BTW), we get one physical life and that's it then we move to the next, seems a bit more realistic but I'm open to ideas.

If I'm wrong it seems to me the basics of this belief system is that despite individuality we eventually lose individuality because we are believed to all be one consciousness, In other words all creation is just bits and pieces of one Being, this as well seems to counter the idea of individuality and original creations, how do you reconcile that? Or maybe it's not something that needs to be reconciled but how do you view individuality?
Do insects, plants, animals ect... all play the same role in reincarnation?

Is this the only level of creation? Or are there many? What happens to a "soul" if they meet the requirements of this life? What would be the next stage of existence for that soul?

And if you don't mind the questionnaire what exactly is god? Is it an entity or just a consciousness or a conscious state of being?


My own personal views (which are opinions) are that a person is a separate created being at birth, an original being with a combination of spirit and flesh. I would even say we have several layers but yes I would agree that we could be considered a "piece" of God in a sense because God is the creator of all life but I don't see the need to disregard the concept of will and created original entities.
I might even say that the reincarnated idea of creation is merely an illusion but more like a shattered mirror in which all things return to one would that be an accurate description? I'm not sure I could swallow that completely, could you elaborate on that some? What am I missing here thanks.

I believe (MO) that we do indeed reap what we sow and or live out "karma" but I've always understood that we do that in this life, not necessarily many. We learn right from wrong and reaping and sowing in this life and that determines what proceeds in the next, how different is that from your view?

What's really the point of creation if in the end it's just "god" working himself out in some illusory creation? I mean what exactly is the point of reincarnating for some purpose if we are all just god anyway lol? How does one rationalize this?

When "god" decides to break off into creation what is it's intent? Where does the process of reincarnating begin? At what level does it begin?

Pardon me if any of this sounds rude or condescending, this is just how I think and I'm very interested in spiritual things so if you coincide with these types of beliefs and you are a spiritual person please feel free to answer and correct my perceptions thanks.

I am a Panentheist. I believe we are all manifestations of God. Our soul is Gods soul. From that perspective we have been everyone and everything that has ever existed and ever will. When I look at my children, I know they are a part of me. When I speak to others, I know they are part of me, when I speak to God, I am speaking to the ultimate eternal self. When I look out into the world, I see God everywhere. There is nothing to reconcile. On the other hand religions like Christianity seem impossible to reconcile to me.

Thanks.

So basically individuality is merely an illusion? since it all returns to one form anyway?

What then exactly is the point of creation if not for the sake of individuality? The part that confuses me the most is why would god send us through this whole reincarnation process when we have no individuality to begin with, we are just little bits of god so why is there a need to undergo something so bizarre? seems a bit strange and contradictory to me but like I said I'm trying to understand what this intention is...

In Christianity we are both in a sense, we are part spirit and part flesh meaning we reflect both that of God and that of our parents. We are known by God and yet at the same time we are a surprise to God because we are part Him and part flesh, we are a manifestation of God and flesh so in this sense we have that individuality, we have individual will. This is just my opinion though.

I'd like to know why god would reincarnate itself to teach itself lessons in billions of different ways, and then expect us (it) to somehow find ourselves out of the process to eventually transform back to itself, I'm open to a different perception but I'm just not seeing the logic in this type of creation yet.
drpiek
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4/30/2015 10:03:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 8:13:23 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

So basically individuality is merely an illusion? since it all returns to one form anyway?

What then exactly is the point of creation if not for the sake of individuality? The part that confuses me the most is why would god send us through this whole reincarnation process when we have no individuality to begin with, we are just little bits of god so why is there a need to undergo something so bizarre? seems a bit strange and contradictory to me but like I said I'm trying to understand what this intention is...

To understand this you need to put yourself in the position of God. For this thought experiment you need to accept that there was no beginning and there is no end to God. God is all that has ever existed and all that will ever exist. Now imagine you are that being. Most people imaging a God floating in a void, but that is simply our minds trying to put boundaries on God. There is no void, no place that is not God. So you exist everywhere, now what do you do? Why do you do it? How long would you do one thing for until you got tired of it? If you had an eternity to do as you please, would you ever end up manifesting this version of existence that we see?
Is reality an illusion? Only if we choose to think of it in that way.
drpiek
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4/30/2015 10:11:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 8:37:36 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:


In Christianity we are both in a sense, we are part spirit and part flesh meaning we reflect both that of God and that of our parents. We are known by God and yet at the same time we are a surprise to God because we are part Him and part flesh, we are a manifestation of God and flesh so in this sense we have that individuality, we have individual will. This is just my opinion though.

I'd like to know why god would reincarnate itself to teach itself lessons in billions of different ways, and then expect us (it) to somehow find ourselves out of the process to eventually transform back to itself, I'm open to a different perception but I'm just not seeing the logic in this type of creation yet.

To understand this way of thinking you need to put yourself in the position of God. For this thought experiment you need to accept that there was no beginning and there is no end to God. God is all that has ever existed and all that will ever exist. Now imagine you are that being. Most people imaging a God floating in a void, but that is simply our minds trying to put boundaries on God. There is no void, no place that is not God. So you exist everywhere, now what do you do? Why do you do it? How long would you do one thing for until you got tired of it? If you had an eternity to do as you please, would you ever end up manifesting this version of existence that we see?

The idea of god splitting into billions of different ways to learn a lesson to then later return to the God state is just a human misunderstanding. We are currently in the God state and the separate individual human state all at once. In essence god likes to keep himself busy because the alternative is boring.
EtrnlVw
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4/30/2015 1:06:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 10:03:58 AM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/29/2015 8:13:23 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

So basically individuality is merely an illusion? since it all returns to one form anyway?

What then exactly is the point of creation if not for the sake of individuality? The part that confuses me the most is why would god send us through this whole reincarnation process when we have no individuality to begin with, we are just little bits of god so why is there a need to undergo something so bizarre? seems a bit strange and contradictory to me but like I said I'm trying to understand what this intention is...

To understand this you need to put yourself in the position of God. For this thought experiment you need to accept that there was no beginning and there is no end to God. God is all that has ever existed and all that will ever exist. Now imagine you are that being. Most people imaging a God floating in a void, but that is simply our minds trying to put boundaries on God. There is no void, no place that is not God. So you exist everywhere, now what do you do? Why do you do it? How long would you do one thing for until you got tired of it? If you had an eternity to do as you please, would you ever end up manifesting this version of existence that we see?
Is reality an illusion? Only if we choose to think of it in that way.

I do put myself in the position of God and I certainly understand eternity, that should go without saying lol. The part I don't really understand is why the need to strip away our individuality when we see it as plain as day in reality. When I create something, say music, painting or some object it stands alone as an individual piece despite the fact I made it, this is how I view creation we are separate entities with our own will, that is what makes us free to choose and behave according to our desires.
If I had eternity to create I'm not sure I would break myself into billions of pieces, I would create in the same manner I do now which is to create something beyond myself, a separate entity.
Please don't think I'm trying to debunk anything, I'm just trying to make sense of it that's all.
I think that where we diverge is that my belief is that God is an actual entity with an actual form, whereas maybe your beliefs say God is consciousness, he has no form therefore He is everything, is that part of the problem you think?
EtrnlVw
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4/30/2015 1:10:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 10:11:24 AM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/29/2015 8:37:36 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:


In Christianity we are both in a sense, we are part spirit and part flesh meaning we reflect both that of God and that of our parents. We are known by God and yet at the same time we are a surprise to God because we are part Him and part flesh, we are a manifestation of God and flesh so in this sense we have that individuality, we have individual will. This is just my opinion though.

I'd like to know why god would reincarnate itself to teach itself lessons in billions of different ways, and then expect us (it) to somehow find ourselves out of the process to eventually transform back to itself, I'm open to a different perception but I'm just not seeing the logic in this type of creation yet.

To understand this way of thinking you need to put yourself in the position of God. For this thought experiment you need to accept that there was no beginning and there is no end to God. God is all that has ever existed and all that will ever exist. Now imagine you are that being. Most people imaging a God floating in a void, but that is simply our minds trying to put boundaries on God. There is no void, no place that is not God. So you exist everywhere, now what do you do? Why do you do it? How long would you do one thing for until you got tired of it? If you had an eternity to do as you please, would you ever end up manifesting this version of existence that we see?


The idea of god splitting into billions of different ways to learn a lesson to then later return to the God state is just a human misunderstanding. We are currently in the God state and the separate individual human state all at once. In essence god likes to keep himself busy because the alternative is boring.

Boring lol? The alternative is to not split yourself but to make individual beings, that seems less boring to me. If we are currently in a God state why the need for reincarnation? What does reincarnation produce if not to bring us into a "god state", I thought that was the point of it?
EtrnlVw
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4/30/2015 1:20:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Unless my friend you are saying that God is splitting Himself for the purpose of experiencing then maybe you have a point! But that's crazy lol, that means God is responsible for everything that happens including rape, murder, sex trafficking ect..., that seems a bit out of control, how do you reconcile that?
drpiek
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4/30/2015 2:11:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 1:20:49 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
Unless my friend you are saying that God is splitting Himself for the purpose of experiencing then maybe you have a point! But that's crazy lol, that means God is responsible for everything that happens including rape, murder, sex trafficking ect..., that seems a bit out of control, how do you reconcile that?

I am not Christian, I reconcile it by not ignoring it. Yes God is responsible for evil even though most Christians ignore this even when the bible teaches it.

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
drpiek
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4/30/2015 2:22:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 1:10:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:11:24 AM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/29/2015 8:37:36 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:


In Christianity we are both in a sense, we are part spirit and part flesh meaning we reflect both that of God and that of our parents. We are known by God and yet at the same time we are a surprise to God because we are part Him and part flesh, we are a manifestation of God and flesh so in this sense we have that individuality, we have individual will. This is just my opinion though.

I'd like to know why god would reincarnate itself to teach itself lessons in billions of different ways, and then expect us (it) to somehow find ourselves out of the process to eventually transform back to itself, I'm open to a different perception but I'm just not seeing the logic in this type of creation yet.

To understand this way of thinking you need to put yourself in the position of God. For this thought experiment you need to accept that there was no beginning and there is no end to God. God is all that has ever existed and all that will ever exist. Now imagine you are that being. Most people imaging a God floating in a void, but that is simply our minds trying to put boundaries on God. There is no void, no place that is not God. So you exist everywhere, now what do you do? Why do you do it? How long would you do one thing for until you got tired of it? If you had an eternity to do as you please, would you ever end up manifesting this version of existence that we see?


The idea of god splitting into billions of different ways to learn a lesson to then later return to the God state is just a human misunderstanding. We are currently in the God state and the separate individual human state all at once. In essence god likes to keep himself busy because the alternative is boring.

Boring lol? The alternative is to not split yourself but to make individual beings, that seems less boring to me. If we are currently in a God state why the need for reincarnation? What does reincarnation produce if not to bring us into a "god state", I thought that was the point of it?

When there is nothing but yourself, whatever you make is also you because the only thing you could have made it out of is you. You are missing the most basic point. You are a part of god now, and will still be a part of god after you die. Your soul is Gods soul. Life is not an illusion, nor is reality. the only illusion is that you are a separate being, the illusion of ego.
EtrnlVw
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4/30/2015 9:31:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 2:11:47 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/30/2015 1:20:49 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
Unless my friend you are saying that God is splitting Himself for the purpose of experiencing then maybe you have a point! But that's crazy lol, that means God is responsible for everything that happens including rape, murder, sex trafficking ect..., that seems a bit out of control, how do you reconcile that?

I am not Christian, I reconcile it by not ignoring it. Yes God is responsible for evil even though most Christians ignore this even when the bible teaches it.

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Read the whole chapter of Isaiah 45 and you get a better idea of what this is for.

Here is a more clear passage that you should read in James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

So no, I disagree that God is responsible for the evil that has been dispersed like rape or child trafficking lol, how do you justify that? It makes zero sense as we work hard in this world to combat evil, and now you have people who believe it's all gods work, so are we working against ourselves trying to rid the world of serious problems????
EtrnlVw
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4/30/2015 9:33:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 2:22:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/30/2015 1:10:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:11:24 AM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/29/2015 8:37:36 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:


In Christianity we are both in a sense, we are part spirit and part flesh meaning we reflect both that of God and that of our parents. We are known by God and yet at the same time we are a surprise to God because we are part Him and part flesh, we are a manifestation of God and flesh so in this sense we have that individuality, we have individual will. This is just my opinion though.

I'd like to know why god would reincarnate itself to teach itself lessons in billions of different ways, and then expect us (it) to somehow find ourselves out of the process to eventually transform back to itself, I'm open to a different perception but I'm just not seeing the logic in this type of creation yet.

To understand this way of thinking you need to put yourself in the position of God. For this thought experiment you need to accept that there was no beginning and there is no end to God. God is all that has ever existed and all that will ever exist. Now imagine you are that being. Most people imaging a God floating in a void, but that is simply our minds trying to put boundaries on God. There is no void, no place that is not God. So you exist everywhere, now what do you do? Why do you do it? How long would you do one thing for until you got tired of it? If you had an eternity to do as you please, would you ever end up manifesting this version of existence that we see?


The idea of god splitting into billions of different ways to learn a lesson to then later return to the God state is just a human misunderstanding. We are currently in the God state and the separate individual human state all at once. In essence god likes to keep himself busy because the alternative is boring.

Boring lol? The alternative is to not split yourself but to make individual beings, that seems less boring to me. If we are currently in a God state why the need for reincarnation? What does reincarnation produce if not to bring us into a "god state", I thought that was the point of it?

When there is nothing but yourself, whatever you make is also you because the only thing you could have made it out of is you. You are missing the most basic point. You are a part of god now, and will still be a part of god after you die. Your soul is Gods soul. Life is not an illusion, nor is reality. the only illusion is that you are a separate being, the illusion of ego.

Well this doesn't help with clarity or address my questions but I do appreciate you hanging around, thanks for the info.
drpiek
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5/1/2015 7:14:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 9:31:12 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/30/2015 2:11:47 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/30/2015 1:20:49 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
Unless my friend you are saying that God is splitting Himself for the purpose of experiencing then maybe you have a point! But that's crazy lol, that means God is responsible for everything that happens including rape, murder, sex trafficking ect..., that seems a bit out of control, how do you reconcile that?

I am not Christian, I reconcile it by not ignoring it. Yes God is responsible for evil even though most Christians ignore this even when the bible teaches it.

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Read the whole chapter of Isaiah 45 and you get a better idea of what this is for.

Here is a more clear passage that you should read in James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


So no, I disagree that God is responsible for the evil that has been dispersed like rape or child trafficking lol, how do you justify that? It makes zero sense as we work hard in this world to combat evil, and now you have people who believe it's all gods work, so are we working against ourselves trying to rid the world of serious problems????

You cherry pick what you want to see in the bible like most Christians instead of taking all the passages as equally true. It is very clear that nothing happens that is not Gods will, that God created everything even evil and the paths that lead to it. So yes, we are fighting ourselves to stay on the good path.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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5/2/2015 7:15:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 7:14:58 AM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/30/2015 9:31:12 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 4/30/2015 2:11:47 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 4/30/2015 1:20:49 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
Unless my friend you are saying that God is splitting Himself for the purpose of experiencing then maybe you have a point! But that's crazy lol, that means God is responsible for everything that happens including rape, murder, sex trafficking ect..., that seems a bit out of control, how do you reconcile that?

I am not Christian, I reconcile it by not ignoring it. Yes God is responsible for evil even though most Christians ignore this even when the bible teaches it.

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Read the whole chapter of Isaiah 45 and you get a better idea of what this is for.

Here is a more clear passage that you should read in James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


So no, I disagree that God is responsible for the evil that has been dispersed like rape or child trafficking lol, how do you justify that? It makes zero sense as we work hard in this world to combat evil, and now you have people who believe it's all gods work, so are we working against ourselves trying to rid the world of serious problems????

You cherry pick what you want to see in the bible like most Christians instead of taking all the passages as equally true. It is very clear that nothing happens that is not Gods will, that God created everything even evil and the paths that lead to it. So yes, we are fighting ourselves to stay on the good path.

Hmm I'm sorry you feel that way because that is not truth and certainly not true about my character, beyond that I produced a passage articulated more clear than the OT verse you gave. I asked you to go read the entire chapter in Isaiah so you can visualize the imagery within it and who it was addressed to. The writer of that chapter is invoking confidence in who it is addressed to whereas the passage I cite is much more precise so you prefer to ignore that and give me zero feedback on what James 1 is saying.
You give me no good reason to believe what you're saying, it's an insult to Christianity and what it means to pursue a spiritual lifestyle and choosing right from wrong and if any one reads scripture they should know that God hates evil. That's kind of the whole point of the ten commandments and the command to love one another. How can a house stand if it is divided against it self?
Matthew 12

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Unfortunately my intention in this thread was to understand these views I did not want to argue about what religious view is correct, I only brought it up as a means to express another view point so my apologies for getting off track here, but apparently we have some conflicting views, I thought it would have been rather obvious that the Biblical God wants us to abide in His light not darkness so I don't know what to say about that since you don't seem to want to look at James 1.
Gentorev
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5/2/2015 8:07:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Mankind consist of body, soul and spirit.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and pre-human, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity. Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."

Those who still have the judgemental war raging within them, are cast back into the refining fires of physical life once again, where the mind that is the life=personality of their portion of the eternal soul, is either wholly or partially wiped from the eternal soul and they must begin the whole process of evolution again, at whatever point they are prescribed, whether plant, or animal, etc.
EtrnlVw
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5/2/2015 9:59:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/2/2015 8:07:23 PM, Gentorev wrote:
Mankind consist of body, soul and spirit.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and pre-human, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity. Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."

Those who still have the judgemental war raging within them, are cast back into the refining fires of physical life once again, where the mind that is the life=personality of their portion of the eternal soul, is either wholly or partially wiped from the eternal soul and they must begin the whole process of evolution again, at whatever point they are prescribed, whether plant, or animal, etc.

Okay I think I understand that lol.
What do you think about the concept that we actually have several layers of being, where you have the material body which houses all these elements but consciousness is separate from ones thoughts which is the mind. Do you think ones consciousness is the same as ones mind? I'm not sold on a definitive theory just curious.
For instance when you shut your eyes or meditate you can learn to detach yourself from thoughts and noise and separate the material mind from ones conscious or awareness. Because thoughts are more like reactions and cause and effect.

When our material body perishes our inner self moves into a world of pure energies at varying levels and frequencies, where we are no longer attached or limited by the flesh so at what point is the mind no longer a brain function?

So you are saying you do believe in reincarnation? I'm not sure I want to be a plant lol, I'm hoping to upgrade!
Gentorev
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5/3/2015 12:27:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/2/2015 9:59:36 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:

So you are saying you do believe in reincarnation? I'm not sure I want to be a plant lol, I'm hoping to upgrade!

I believe in the evolution of the eternal and boundless Cosmos, which is seen as an infinite nuber of Universes, each one occupying its own position, in space-time, from the most primitive to the most high universe in the evolution of the Cosmos.

Our ancient ancestors expressed their belief that our scientist today are just beginning to come to terms with, and that is the fact that we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands out from the beginning of space-time only to contract back to the beginning of space-time, where, from "THE BEGINNING" it expands outward and contracts back again and again.

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence." ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, "The Great Day," which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by "Pralaya," a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. "Manvantara," is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, "Pralaya," is the evening that proceeds the next period of universal activity. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the "GENERATIONS" of the universe.

The English word "Generation," is translated from the Hebrew "toledoth" which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as "births," or "descendants," such as "These are the generations of Adam," or "these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.

And the "Great Day" in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, and are able to visit all of the infinite number of universes that exist in Space-Time.

While those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

A series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. Every universe from the first to the last, from the smallest to the greatest, which have been created throughout the eons of eternity, still exist in their independent Space-Time positions within the eternal and boundless cosmos.

And perhaps you may close your eyes in death only to awaken in one of those past universes with complete awareness of your pre-existence, or partial memories, experiencing waves of dejavu, or no memory at all, scratching the fleas off your back and licking your bum, as you await your next feed or sexual encounter. Who knows?