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Deism

kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
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joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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4/28/2015 7:05:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?
I am not a deist, but from talking to several deist friends, I gather that there is no one way to be a deist. The main things that define a deist are a belief in a god or gods, and the fact that the individual has come to these conclusions based on reason and logic alone. The majority of deists that I have spoken to seem to think that this god figure does not really care about humans, and does not take a significant role(if any) in the life of humans.
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/28/2015 7:41:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?

Deism is a big category, with variations. Similar to Theist with variations of different religions or Atheism with different variations of strength.

What would you like to talk about?
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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4/29/2015 10:06:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/28/2015 7:41:55 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?

Deism is a big category, with variations. Similar to Theist with variations of different religions or Atheism with different variations of strength.

What would you like to talk about?

I guess what I am asking for is to be approached by a deist in a similar way that a Christian or Muslim missionary would approach a non believer.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/29/2015 1:56:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 10:06:32 AM, kasmic wrote:
At 4/28/2015 7:41:55 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?

Deism is a big category, with variations. Similar to Theist with variations of different religions or Atheism with different variations of strength.

What would you like to talk about?

I guess what I am asking for is to be approached by a deist in a similar way that a Christian or Muslim missionary would approach a non believer.

That won't happen because a true Deist has no interest invested in making converts. That's the province mostly of the Abrahamic monotheistic religions loosely based on a triumvirate of gods once worshipped by a semi-nomadic tribe of herders. The Christians have their great commission and the Muslims basically have their prophet saying that all must convert or be condemned. A deist basically understands that his particular deity created the universe with certain laws to keep it running and then stepped back to watch, more or less. There's no reward or punishment waiting at the end of the line.
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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4/29/2015 2:43:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 1:56:25 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/29/2015 10:06:32 AM, kasmic wrote:
At 4/28/2015 7:41:55 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?

Deism is a big category, with variations. Similar to Theist with variations of different religions or Atheism with different variations of strength.

What would you like to talk about?

I guess what I am asking for is to be approached by a deist in a similar way that a Christian or Muslim missionary would approach a non believer.

That won't happen because a true Deist has no interest invested in making converts. That's the province mostly of the Abrahamic monotheistic religions loosely based on a triumvirate of gods once worshipped by a semi-nomadic tribe of herders. The Christians have their great commission and the Muslims basically have their prophet saying that all must convert or be condemned. A deist basically understands that his particular deity created the universe with certain laws to keep it running and then stepped back to watch, more or less. There's no reward or punishment waiting at the end of the line.

Sure, perhaps in the interest of bettering society, would not a deist want to show me or someone else the errors of there ways. Not for my supposed salvation... just to enlighten.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/29/2015 2:55:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 2:43:38 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 4/29/2015 1:56:25 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/29/2015 10:06:32 AM, kasmic wrote:
At 4/28/2015 7:41:55 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?

Deism is a big category, with variations. Similar to Theist with variations of different religions or Atheism with different variations of strength.

What would you like to talk about?

I guess what I am asking for is to be approached by a deist in a similar way that a Christian or Muslim missionary would approach a non believer.

That won't happen because a true Deist has no interest invested in making converts. That's the province mostly of the Abrahamic monotheistic religions loosely based on a triumvirate of gods once worshipped by a semi-nomadic tribe of herders. The Christians have their great commission and the Muslims basically have their prophet saying that all must convert or be condemned. A deist basically understands that his particular deity created the universe with certain laws to keep it running and then stepped back to watch, more or less. There's no reward or punishment waiting at the end of the line.

Sure, perhaps in the interest of bettering society, would not a deist want to show me or someone else the errors of there ways. Not for my supposed salvation... just to enlighten.

What errors? A deist's god makes no rules aside from the physical ones that we all have to follow. Gravity, etc. Everything else is our decision and we have to live with the consequences. There is no supreme authority for good or evil and no evil deity to blame when things go wrong. It's just us living in the creator's universe. Deists do not proselytize or attempt to gain converts since there's no reason to do so. Enlightenment is the individual's choice and responsibility, not that of anyone else.
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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4/29/2015 3:02:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What errors? A deist's god makes no rules aside from the physical ones that we all have to follow. Gravity, etc. Everything else is our decision and we have to live with the consequences. There is no supreme authority for good or evil and no evil deity to blame when things go wrong. It's just us living in the creator's universe. Deists do not proselytize or attempt to gain converts since there's no reason to do so. Enlightenment is the individual's choice and responsibility, not that of anyone else.

Fascinating, so what is the difference between an agnostic and a Deist.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/29/2015 3:05:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:02:16 PM, kasmic wrote:
What errors? A deist's god makes no rules aside from the physical ones that we all have to follow. Gravity, etc. Everything else is our decision and we have to live with the consequences. There is no supreme authority for good or evil and no evil deity to blame when things go wrong. It's just us living in the creator's universe. Deists do not proselytize or attempt to gain converts since there's no reason to do so. Enlightenment is the individual's choice and responsibility, not that of anyone else.

Fascinating, so what is the difference between an agnostic and a Deist.

An agnostic simply has no evidence to support a position and so rejects it until evidence is presented and reverts to whatever default they choose, be it theism or atheism. A deist believes that a supernatural being created the universe but that it does not intrude or interfere in the natural operation of that universe.
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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4/29/2015 3:09:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 3:05:45 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 4/29/2015 3:02:16 PM, kasmic wrote:
What errors? A deist's god makes no rules aside from the physical ones that we all have to follow. Gravity, etc. Everything else is our decision and we have to live with the consequences. There is no supreme authority for good or evil and no evil deity to blame when things go wrong. It's just us living in the creator's universe. Deists do not proselytize or attempt to gain converts since there's no reason to do so. Enlightenment is the individual's choice and responsibility, not that of anyone else.

Fascinating, so what is the difference between an agnostic and a Deist.

An agnostic simply has no evidence to support a position and so rejects it until evidence is presented and reverts to whatever default they choose, be it theism or atheism. A deist believes that a supernatural being created the universe but that it does not intrude or interfere in the natural operation of that universe.

Thanks for the clarification.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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4/29/2015 7:19:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?

The modern day definition that I think most comes to mind for the "deist", is someone who believes there is a god, who made the universe and physical laws. Then does not intervene.

This is mostly because such Deism is from french deist. But it is not the only type of deist, and doesn't accurately portray the deism present in say, the founding fathers of America. This variation has been improperly attributed to many people such as Newton and Jefferson.
http://www.sullivan-county.com...

English Deist like Thomas Hobbes, Charles Blount, the earl of Shaftesbury (Cooper), Anthony Collins, Thomas Woolston, Matthew Tindal, Thomas Morgan, Thomas Chubb, and Viscount Bolingbroke, more accurately capture the type of Deism of Newton and Jefferson and some other forefathers. Sometimes a better label is "Christian Deist" for these thinkers.
http://www.britannica.com...

Some tenets held historically by Deist have been:

1. There is one Supreme God.
2. He ought to be worshiped.
3. Virtue and piety are the chief parts of divine worship.
4. We ought to be sorry for our sins and repent of them
5. Divine goodness doth dispense rewards and punishments both in this life and after it.
- Lord Herbert of Cherbury, "The Ancient Religion of the Gentiles, and Causes of Their Errors"

As for my own take on Deism, I'll explain as best I can.

There is One God,

For sake of brevity I'll supply a jewish argument for this. God can not be defined. The process of drawing definitions is like drawing borders around an country. This delineation is so we can say this is an "apple" and that a "pear". But drawing borders, or defining words is an act of creation. God is the creator and therefor not applicable to having a border drawn around him, hence there is only one God.

...who made the universal and established all it's laws. not just physical natural laws, but universal law as well. (universal law being some innate natural contractual foundations.)

"This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." Isaac Newton.

"How came the bodies of animals to be contrived with so much art, and for what ends were their several parts?
Was the eye contrived without skill in Opticks, and the ear without knowledge of sounds?...and these things being rightly dispatch"d, does it not appear from ph"nomena that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent...?"
R13; Isaac Newton, Opticks

Nature is a book written by God. And though God is incomprehensible and greater than anything we can conceptualize, We may know of God, by his creation. That this creation is made by a rational mind and comprehensible by a rational mind.


That God made life, and does take an interest in all of it's creation, every creature great and small.

If it were one creation event, then I might lean to an accident by a transcendental being. But the level of fine tuning and the creation of life, ect.. lends me to a continued history of a God who is personally interested. At least in the same manner a carpenter labors over each cut and stain of grain.

Religion is a human made system for the purpose of understanding "God". like Science is a human made tool attempting to understand "nature". These man made systems are mostly wrong and incomplete. This doesn't have to be a universalism view of religion (the idea that all gods equally lead or worship the same god). Because any man made claims of "the right religion" is rejected this is why Deist don't proselytize themselves.

--My own Deist based thoughts, which I'll just run down shortly, is that God and "spiritual" energy was prevalent during the creation of mankind, and then abruptly not present. This creates a longing in mankind to find God. I suspect this absence is a faux gulf. And to be bridged must be done so by God. because I think God is personally interested in his creation (each and everyone of them) I have faith that this gap will be/ is bridged by God. My faith is in God to save me from my innate corruption.

Thank you.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/30/2015 7:08:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?

My mother was a Dorris Deist. She believed that whatever will be, will be.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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4/30/2015 10:55:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 7:08:35 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 4/28/2015 4:09:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
I am interested in learning about Deism, from Deists. Anyone interested in a chat?

My mother was a Dorris Deist. She believed that whatever will be, will be.

Que sera`, sera`.
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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4/30/2015 12:07:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
--My own Deist based thoughts, which I'll just run down shortly, is that God and "spiritual" energy was prevalent during the creation of mankind, and then abruptly not present. This creates a longing in mankind to find God. I suspect this absence is a faux gulf. And to be bridged must be done so by God. because I think God is personally interested in his creation (each and everyone of them) I have faith that this gap will be/ is bridged by God. My faith is in God to save me from my innate corruption.

Thank you.

Thanks for sharing that.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...