Total Posts:189|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Is death always a bad thing for athiests?

Codero99
Posts: 2
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 7:40:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

I don't view death with dread as I use to. I have come to realize it is the end of my personal book, and the end of a chapter in the books of my friends and family.

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Yes, if
1) death is near,
2) until the end there will be suffering,
3) family resources are being spent in vain on this suffering,

then death would be desirable. These are my personal criteria for euthanasia, and I can imagine cases where all three are not necessary. Of course, these are subject to change, but they seem to be reasonable from my current perspective.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 9:38:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Oblivion is preferable over eternal punishment.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 10:02:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

No. Many atheists favour voluntary euthanasia as being preferable to prolonged suffering and life without dignity. For example:

* http://www.patheos.com...
* http://www.thinkatheist.com...
* http://www.patheos.com...

(There are other policy issues associated with euthanasia beyond individual choice, but many atheists see no a priori reason to prohibit a rational, considered choice to die.)
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/29/2015 10:20:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 9:38:01 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)


Oblivion is preferable over eternal punishment.

Tomato - Tomahto
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 4:52:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

That depends on a very specific definition of "bad". Eternal "oblivion" is not the way to put it - when organs shut down, biologically, it *feels* (though there is no feeling after death, so this description is flawed, albeit it accurately describes death) like eternal sleep. There's nothing "bad" about it, as bad as just sleeping.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 5:31:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 9:38:01 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)


Oblivion is preferable over eternal punishment.

"punishment" being important to the punished, not the punisher. Red skinned dude with a pitchfork or singing hymnals to an entity that doesn't need it. Eternity is a long chunk of time, and neither option sounds like something I would like to indulge in should they be true.

But, since you broach the question, is it your fear of hellfire that pushes you toward something else?

"oblivion being preferable...." sounds a little Pascallyish Wagerish to me.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 6:01:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 9:38:01 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)


Oblivion is preferable over eternal punishment.

The ever present fear of the believer, bringing that acidic bile up from the depths of their insecurities, life is for living.
Try it.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
GDBH
Posts: 66
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 7:38:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death might be kinda bad, but I would prefer to use its inevitability as a reason to do the great things in life before he knocks on my bedroom door.
The measure of a good politician these days seems to be his ability to bull$hit.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 7:51:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you cease to be when you die as I hope, then it isn't death itself which is frightening, but the run up to the end, if it is unpleasant.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

As for "being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc." that is not a problem.

No-one will suffer from any of those things in the resurrection.

God is far from heartless, they will be resurrected, cured and given a second chance to learn God's ways.

If they can't be "saved" this side of Armageddon, through no fault of their own, then they will get a second chance somehow, most likely by dying at or before Armageddon and being resurrected after.

Christ never turned away the sick when on earth and won't in the judgement, nor will his father.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 4:46:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

"It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection."

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (John 5: 28-29)

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

It seems that they will.

God is far from heartless, they will be resurrected, cured and given a second chance to learn God's ways.

Then perchance a third chance?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 4:51:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Speaking for myself, death is just the end of life. It's as inevitable as the next second. I don't look forward to it but I don't fear it. I will instinctively fight or flee to survive in a dangerous situation for that is the imperative of life, to survive, but I know it will eventually happen. My only hope is that it won't be too painful for me or anyone who cares about me.

Yes, if life has become a burden rather than a joy. I have answered this question elsewhere. And yes, if I had an incurable disease that would only drain my family's resources and never get me any better, I'd like the same consideration we give our pets and farm animals when their quality of life has gone.

Does that answer your questions?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 4:46:24 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

"It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection."

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (John 5: 28-29)

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

It seems that they will.
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.

Why?

because Christ has his people, the JWs making sure no-one has an excuse not to know the truth.


God is far from heartless, they will be resurrected, cured and given a second chance to learn God's ways.

Then perchance a third chance?

No, scripture only describes the second.

When that is over Satan will be destroyed and there will be no more chances.

Since death, as we know it will also have been thrown into the Lake of fire, there will only be the second death, the permanent death for any who are stupid enough go sin again.

However, with no Satan to mislead them it should not be needed.

Of course you don't believe the scriptures about the resurrection either do you. You have your own ear tickling version.

Re-reading the post above I guess I could have worded it better, but the basic truth is there if not well worded.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/30/2015 5:58:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/30/2015 4:46:24 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

"It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection."

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (John 5: 28-29)

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

It seems that they will.
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.

So in fact there is a point "in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth"?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 4:57:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 5:58:05 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/30/2015 4:46:24 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

"It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection."

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (John 5: 28-29)

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

It seems that they will.
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.

So in fact there is a point "in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth"?

Yes, post Armageddon.

Of course you have to realise what Jesus is referring to as the "memorial tombs". He is not being literal there, and it would be impossible for him to be literal since we already know that some of the dead will not et the call.

No, those in the "memorial tombs" are those who are held in Jehovah memory so that they can be resurrected.

We already know that there are some who will definitely not get a resurrection, those found guilty at death of "sin against the holy spirit" called blasphemy against the holy spirit in some translations.

Mark 3:23-30
ASV(i) 23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26 And if Satan hath risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 27 But no one can enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. 28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin: 30 because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

A sin you are in great danger of being found guilty of committing yourself at times.

Only Jehovah knows exactly which those are.

There is however a great deal of doubt over the resurrection chances of:

The citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah
The Pre-flood population
All of those who refused the witness given by Jesus and the Apostles in the first century.
Those who, since the 1st century have deliberately, knowingly, not used the word of God aright, for whatever reason

And increasing levels of doubt over those who refuse to listen to the message today and die before Armageddon.

Why? because all of the above have refused to listen to a message transmitted by holy spirit, and thus have belittled or shown a lack of respect for holy spirit's use.

God will forget all he decides to forget from the above groups, and therefore they will not be classed as being in the memorial tombs.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 5:14:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.
You are obviously not aware that the people who wrote the scriptures that you allegedly rely on are the same people who claim that bats are birds.
They and you are as ignorant of reality as it is possible to get.
Scripture is very clear, bats are birds.
Scripture being very clear is as meaningless as all of drivel.
Just look.
1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 8:48:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 5:14:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.
You are obviously not aware that the people who wrote the scriptures that you allegedly rely on are the same people who claim that bats are birds.
They and you are as ignorant of reality as it is possible to get.
Scripture is very clear, bats are birds.
Scripture being very clear is as meaningless as all of drivel.
Just look.
1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)

Is it it strange that JW all talk about Armageddon the battle of all battles where they claim they will be victorious when they are too cowardly to enlist in the military to serve their country. Will they be using disfellowshipped members as a shield against the other armies?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 9:02:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 8:48:14 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/1/2015 5:14:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.
You are obviously not aware that the people who wrote the scriptures that you allegedly rely on are the same people who claim that bats are birds.
They and you are as ignorant of reality as it is possible to get.
Scripture is very clear, bats are birds.
Scripture being very clear is as meaningless as all of drivel.
Just look.
1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)

Is it it strange that JW all talk about Armageddon the battle of all battles where they claim they will be victorious when they are too cowardly to enlist in the military to serve their country. Will they be using disfellowshipped members as a shield against the other armies?

No human will be victorious, because no human will be fighting, it is Jehovah's war, through his son the Christ, no-one else's.

Cowardice has nothing to do with conscientious objection, in the Case of the JWs, and me, it is a case of obedience to our true King and leader, Jesus Christ,

We are under command to love our enemy, not kill him.

If JW were to join their various armies they could end up fighting each other, something completely impossible for any follower of Christ.

No, as David said, Jehovah is our shield and protection, even if teat protection turns out to be the resurrection.

I would imagine it will take more courage than you could ever posses to face an enemy armed and angry, without a weapon of any sort in your hand, and no intention to retaliate, whatever they do. Ask any of the German JWs who survived the Holocaust.

http://www.ushmm.org...

From your own UNITED STATES HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 9:05:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 8:48:14 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/1/2015 5:14:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.
You are obviously not aware that the people who wrote the scriptures that you allegedly rely on are the same people who claim that bats are birds.
They and you are as ignorant of reality as it is possible to get.
Scripture is very clear, bats are birds.
Scripture being very clear is as meaningless as all of drivel.
Just look.
1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)

Is it it strange that JW all talk about Armageddon the battle of all battles where they claim they will be victorious when they are too cowardly to enlist in the military to serve their country. Will they be using disfellowshipped members as a shield against the other armies?
No that's not the strangest thing about their armageddon, what is strange about their armageddon is that it will be fought with swords and spears allegedly in the 21st century.
None of them possess a capacity for independent thought.
Armageddon to them is real, using swords is what god says so it must be true, regardless of the fact that in the 21st century we don't use swords in battle.
A stupid concept in all reality.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 9:47:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

I take great comfort in the idea of non-existence.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 10:02:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

As for "being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc." that is not a problem.

No-one will suffer from any of those things in the resurrection.

God is far from heartless, they will be resurrected, cured and given a second chance to learn God's ways.

If they can't be "saved" this side of Armageddon, through no fault of their own, then they will get a second chance somehow, most likely by dying at or before Armageddon and being resurrected after.

Christ never turned away the sick when on earth and won't in the judgement, nor will his father.

It is estimated approximately that 150,000 people die every day on the planet. I wonder where Jesus has the time to do anything else like finding lost car keys and wallets, let alone judge each individual person?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 10:10:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
How could anybody be stupid enough to think that death would be bad for an atheist?
As a general rule, we atheists have accepted our mortality, unlike the believers who are shitscared of death.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 10:41:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 4:57:44 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:58:05 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/30/2015 4:46:24 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

"It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection."

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (John 5: 28-29)

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

It seems that they will.
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.

So in fact there is a point "in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth"?

Yes, post Armageddon.

Of course you have to realise what Jesus is referring to as the "memorial tombs". He is not being literal there, and it would be impossible for him to be literal since we already know that some of the dead will not et the call.

No, those in the "memorial tombs" are those who are held in Jehovah memory so that they can be resurrected.

Jesus never said a word about "memorial tombs". Neither did anyone else.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 10:55:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 10:10:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
How could anybody be stupid enough to think that death would be bad for an atheist?
As a general rule, we atheists have accepted our mortality, unlike the believers who are shitscared of death.

Well it has to be worse than life doesn't it?
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 11:04:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 10:55:18 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/1/2015 10:10:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
How could anybody be stupid enough to think that death would be bad for an atheist?
As a general rule, we atheists have accepted our mortality, unlike the believers who are shitscared of death.

Well it has to be worse than life doesn't it?

No you silly little boy. Life is what is worth living, how could death be worse? It is just a part of life.
Those who's hubris makes them believe that they are so superior to everything else in the universe and are therefore entitled to everlasting life and not reality are to be pitied.
Life is worth living, your fantasy life isn't worth the lack of intellect you expend on it's creation.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 11:05:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 10:41:24 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/1/2015 4:57:44 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:58:05 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/30/2015 4:46:24 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

"It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection."

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (John 5: 28-29)

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

It seems that they will.
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.

So in fact there is a point "in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth"?

Yes, post Armageddon.

Of course you have to realise what Jesus is referring to as the "memorial tombs". He is not being literal there, and it would be impossible for him to be literal since we already know that some of the dead will not et the call.

No, those in the "memorial tombs" are those who are held in Jehovah memory so that they can be resurrected.

Jesus never said a word about "memorial tombs". Neither did anyone else.

Maybe not in those exact words.

John 5:28
ASV(i) 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,

What is a tomb, as opposed to a grave?

Go look round a graveyard that has tombs in it. They are built to remember, or memorialise the one housed in them, hence they are in fact "memorial tombs".

Since it is impossible for those in the tombs to literally come out, that must be a metaphor, but a metaphor for what?

Well since a tomb is intended to help us remember the incumbent, thus the "tombs" Jesus meant are in God's memory, where he remembers the details of each one of us so as to resurrect us at the appropriate time.

Matthew 10:29-31
ASV(i) 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father: 30 but the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Why would Jehovah need to remember us in such detail?

So he can resurrect us of course.

You seem decidedly lacking in the ability to reason.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 11:06:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago

Well it has to be worse than life doesn't it?

What??? Its death. It is nothing. It can't be better or worse, that makes no logical sense.
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 11:08:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 10:55:18 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/1/2015 10:10:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
How could anybody be stupid enough to think that death would be bad for an atheist?
As a general rule, we atheists have accepted our mortality, unlike the believers who are shitscared of death.

Well it has to be worse than life doesn't it?

You hide under the covers every night in your fear of such a pathetic belief.

We LIVE we DIE, it's all the same story, regardless of your obsessive and irrational FEAR.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/1/2015 11:13:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 11:05:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/1/2015 10:41:24 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/1/2015 4:57:44 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:58:05 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 5:45:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/30/2015 4:46:24 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2015 10:06:57 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2015 6:03:50 PM, Codero99 wrote:
Since atheists generally believe that death is the permanent end of consciousness/eternal oblivion (no afterlife), does that mean atheists are more likely to view death always as a bad thing?

Are there any circumstances where eternal oblivion is preferable to life?
Is eternal oblivion preferable to being a permanent burden on others (being severely disabled, a drug addict that ruins a family, incurably/untreatably mentally ill, etc.)

Death isn't a particularly bad thing for any of us. It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection.

"It is just that those Christ accepts as his will get a resurrection."

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment." (John 5: 28-29)

Atheists, Agnostics and followers of all forms of false religion, including false Christianity, will not.

It seems that they will.
No scripture is very clear about that, any alive at Armageddon will not survive it.

So in fact there is a point "in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth"?

Yes, post Armageddon.

Of course you have to realise what Jesus is referring to as the "memorial tombs". He is not being literal there, and it would be impossible for him to be literal since we already know that some of the dead will not et the call.

No, those in the "memorial tombs" are those who are held in Jehovah memory so that they can be resurrected.

Jesus never said a word about "memorial tombs". Neither did anyone else.

Maybe not in those exact words.

John 5:28
ASV(i) 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,

What is a tomb, as opposed to a grave?

Nothing at all. The words are used interchangeably. In fact, mnemeion is more commonly rendered "grave" than "tomb", and in English "grave" and "tombs" are synonyms.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."