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Hadith Manuscripts Reliability

POPOO5560
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5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

so we have thousands of Hadiths... but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....
Never fart near dog
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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5/1/2015 1:02:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

so we have thousands of Hadiths... but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

Sure, just like with Christianity, there are some 45,000 registered denominations, which doesn't include the many single individuals who have their own versions of Christianity.

Typical. It shows Islam and Christianity are man made philosophies.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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5/1/2015 2:08:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 1:02:05 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

so we have thousands of Hadiths... but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

Sure, just like with Christianity, there are some 45,000 registered denominations, which doesn't include the many single individuals who have their own versions of Christianity.

Typical. It shows Islam and Christianity are man made philosophies.

ok... get a life.
Never fart near dog
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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5/1/2015 3:01:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 2:08:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/1/2015 1:02:05 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

so we have thousands of Hadiths... but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

Sure, just like with Christianity, there are some 45,000 registered denominations, which doesn't include the many single individuals who have their own versions of Christianity.

Typical. It shows Islam and Christianity are man made philosophies.

ok... get a life.

Ah, so you're just here to be a troll. Gotcha.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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5/1/2015 3:11:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

so we have thousands of Hadiths... but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

It doesn't make any difference what the hadiths authenticity is. The commentaries are worthless because their foundation rests on man-made religious myths and ideas. Judaism's Talmud is filled with commentaries on the Torah/Tanakh but did it ever impart wisdom to Jews? Did any of those commentaries stop Jews from experiencing their holocaust or stop Jews from inflicting another holocaust on Palestinians? Bad Religion only spawns bad religious behavior in believers.

This is a New Age and the old stuff is out of date and needs to be discarded with only the good teachings kept, the bad satanic verses must be chucked overboard. Otherwise we get losers without any other way of getting public attention acting out the worst forms of the old religions just to hit the headlines and justify their otherwise negligible existence. It's mainly young men out to advance their status in the Muslim community as Muhammadans don't care about a little head chopping and murder when it comes to obedience to the Master and his 7th Century religious dictatorship ideology.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/1/2015 3:22:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

It's a good question, PP. As you likely know, the early written history of Muslim scripture was deliberately erased, so there are breaks in the chain of transmission.

The Bible's history is far worse, though. Written over about 1800 years, there are many books that nobody really knows who wrote them; and many redaction and canon decisions that nobody knows who made them or why. Although it was written over a shorter period, the same is also true in the Tanakh.

In Zoroastrianism -- perhaps the oldest monotheistic faith -- they have a different problem. They kept their canon in oral transmission until cultural conflicts forced them to write it down. So they're in the bizarre situation of having an ancient monotheistic faith with very little primary writing on how it came about.
POPOO5560
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5/1/2015 3:46:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 3:22:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

It's a good question, PP. As you likely know, the early written history of Muslim scripture was deliberately erased, so there are breaks in the chain of transmission.

The Bible's history is far worse, though. Written over about 1800 years, there are many books that nobody really knows who wrote them; and many redaction and canon decisions that nobody knows who made them or why. Although it was written over a shorter period, the same is also true in the Tanakh.

In Zoroastrianism -- perhaps the oldest monotheistic faith -- they have a different problem. They kept their canon in oral transmission until cultural conflicts forced them to write it down. So they're in the bizarre situation of having an ancient monotheistic faith with very little primary writing on how it came about.

early written history of Muslim scripture was deliberately erased? you takling about Othman burnings? or something else? about the Quran there many mathimatical structures that if anyone had a chance to change the Quran it would ruined the systems in it... but my problem is about the Hadiths... its not the Quran you know...
Never fart near dog
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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5/1/2015 6:46:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

- There are ~4,400 unrepeated Sahih Hadith.

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

- & dozens of others.

so we have thousands of Hadiths...

- Over 100,000.

but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

- There are thousands of manuscripts of these books. In al-Fihras ash-Shamil (the Synoptic Index, an encyclopaedia of arabic manuscripts) there is mention of over 2,300 manuscripts of Sahih al-Bukhari alone.

- If you mean by 'manuscripts', original copies, than that's both impractical & nonsensical, for:
1. The Hadith are primarily Narrations, & what matters in their Sanad through Narration, not there being a manuscript. & every single Hadith in the 6 Canonical Collections is transmitted by Tawatur from the original compilers (al-Bukhari, Muslim, . . ) to this day.
2. Manuscripts are highly susceptible to tampering, especially the books of Hadith, for inventing a Hadith & making it look authentic provides a supreme authority in the Islamic Tradition. & generally, scholars of Hadith never relied on manuscripts, not then & not now.
3. The method of proving authenticity by requiring original copies is a fallacious one, & also unfeasible, not then & not ever. You don't go to a library & ask for original copies! Probably most books today don't even have original copies written by the author himself! There is a process that goes on & guarantees authenticity. The oldest surviving greek manuscript is some 15 centuries late than the original copy, nonetheless we can attest to its authenticity.

- Example: al-Bukhari. Let's forget the fact that it was transmitted by Tawatur, & let's focus on the manuscripts: the content of Sahih al-Bukhari has been mentioned in every single book of Shuruh al-Hadith (interpretation of Hadith), of Fiqh (jurisprudence), of Tafsir (Exegesis), of Aqeedah (Theology). . . in almost every book pertaining to virtually all fields of the Islamic Tradition, which are by the millions, written by thousands of authors from the 3rd century up to now, from India to Spain. . . Anyone who doubts the authenticity of al-Bukhari is either an ignorant or an idiot.
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DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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5/1/2015 6:50:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 6:46:00 PM, Yassine wrote:

You don't go to a library & ask for original copies!

Of course not, originals are usually owned by collectors.

Probably most books today don't even have original copies written by the author himself!

Yeah, there are many originals owned by collectors, purchased at high end book stores or at auctions.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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5/1/2015 7:10:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 6:50:54 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/1/2015 6:46:00 PM, Yassine wrote:

You don't go to a library & ask for original copies!

Of course not, originals are usually owned by collectors.

Probably most books today don't even have original copies written by the author himself!

Yeah, there are many originals owned by collectors, purchased at high end book stores or at auctions.

- Sure, though most books don't have originals.
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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DanneJeRusse
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5/1/2015 8:04:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 7:10:38 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 5/1/2015 6:50:54 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/1/2015 6:46:00 PM, Yassine wrote:

You don't go to a library & ask for original copies!

Of course not, originals are usually owned by collectors.

Probably most books today don't even have original copies written by the author himself!

Yeah, there are many originals owned by collectors, purchased at high end book stores or at auctions.

- Sure, though most books don't have originals.

So, most books just appear out of thin air?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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5/1/2015 8:14:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 8:04:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/1/2015 7:10:38 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 5/1/2015 6:50:54 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/1/2015 6:46:00 PM, Yassine wrote:

You don't go to a library & ask for original copies!

Of course not, originals are usually owned by collectors.

Probably most books today don't even have original copies written by the author himself!

Yeah, there are many originals owned by collectors, purchased at high end book stores or at auctions.

- Sure, though most books don't have originals.

So, most books just appear out of thin air?

- No, there is a process of writing, acquisition, edition, transcription, publication, distribution . . .etc.
- I've been too forbearing with you, please if you don't have something valuable to say, don't spam my notifications.
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Pase66
Posts: 775
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5/1/2015 8:17:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

so we have thousands of Hadiths... but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

I think its because they're said to be the words of The Prophet Mohammad. I'm not muslim, nor am I learned in Islam, but I believe they are important because they are said to be the words of the prophet. Yes, I do know that some Hadiths are unreliable, while others are much more called upon. Maybe there's a set of core Hadiths that many scholars pull upon, Hadiths that are considered the most accurate.
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DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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5/1/2015 8:30:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 8:14:16 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 5/1/2015 8:04:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/1/2015 7:10:38 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 5/1/2015 6:50:54 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/1/2015 6:46:00 PM, Yassine wrote:

You don't go to a library & ask for original copies!

Of course not, originals are usually owned by collectors.

Probably most books today don't even have original copies written by the author himself!

Yeah, there are many originals owned by collectors, purchased at high end book stores or at auctions.

- Sure, though most books don't have originals.

So, most books just appear out of thin air?

- No, there is a process of writing, acquisition, edition, transcription, publication, distribution . . .etc.
- I've been too forbearing with you, please if you don't have something valuable to say, don't spam my notifications.

LOL. Yes, the process starts out with an original.

Yes, I understand that anything that doesn't agree with your narrow minded worldview, it's considered spam.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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5/1/2015 8:49:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

so we have thousands of Hadiths... but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

Response: We have the authentic testimony from reliable narrators and transmissions, backed by a sophisticated science to confirm their reliability, that supersedes the concept of just having manuscripts. For even a manuscript is not reliable unless it comes from reliable witnesses, which is what the hadith collections reliability is based upon.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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5/2/2015 5:06:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 6:46:00 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

- There are ~4,400 unrepeated Sahih Hadith.

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

- & dozens of others.

so we have thousands of Hadiths...

- Over 100,000.

but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

- There are thousands of manuscripts of these books. In al-Fihras ash-Shamil (the Synoptic Index, an encyclopaedia of arabic manuscripts) there is mention of over 2,300 manuscripts of Sahih al-Bukhari alone.

do you have any site showing these manuscripts? at least some place where it situated? Suadia Iran? a place...


- If you mean by 'manuscripts', original copies, than that's both impractical & nonsensical, for:
1. The Hadith are primarily Narrations, & what matters in their Sanad through Narration, not there being a manuscript. & every single Hadith in the 6 Canonical Collections is transmitted by Tawatur from the original compilers (al-Bukhari, Muslim, . . ) to this day.
2. Manuscripts are highly susceptible to tampering, especially the books of Hadith, for inventing a Hadith & making it look authentic provides a supreme authority in the Islamic Tradition. & generally, scholars of Hadith never relied on manuscripts, not then & not now.
3. The method of proving authenticity by requiring original copies is a fallacious one, & also unfeasible, not then & not ever. You don't go to a library & ask for original copies! Probably most books today don't even have original copies written by the author himself! There is a process that goes on & guarantees authenticity. The oldest surviving greek manuscript is some 15 centuries late than the original copy, nonetheless we can attest to its authenticity.

- Example: al-Bukhari. Let's forget the fact that it was transmitted by Tawatur, & let's focus on the manuscripts: the content of Sahih al-Bukhari has been mentioned in every single book of Shuruh al-Hadith (interpretation of Hadith), of Fiqh (jurisprudence), of Tafsir (Exegesis), of Aqeedah (Theology). . . in almost every book pertaining to virtually all fields of the Islamic Tradition, which are by the millions, written by thousands of authors from the 3rd century up to now, from India to Spain. . . Anyone who doubts the authenticity of al-Bukhari is either an ignorant or an idiot.

if you give me library (of manuscripts) for example of ibn Taymiyyah? because its really weird to me that we have many fields of Islamic Tradition as u said and we have manuscripts of these?

anyway jhaklahu khiran man u r awesome as usual :D
Never fart near dog
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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5/2/2015 9:58:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/1/2015 8:49:56 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/1/2015 12:56:48 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hadith is a collections of the reports of the teachings, deeds and sayings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad... now there are some "5000 authentic Hadiths... if we count "good" or weak" Hadiths the number much higher...

if you go to the internet/books of hadith we have six collections:
Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sunan Abu Dawood
Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Al-Sunan al-Sughra
Sunan ibn Majah

so we have thousands of Hadiths... but where are the manuscripts of these? tried to search some stuff however ended by finding only few manuscripts (torn ones..), we dont have plenty manuscripts like the Bible or Quran to examine it... and thats a problem... where these people who gave us these thousands of Hadiths have a proof of manuscripts? im not talking about the process of its preservation... if we dont have tangible why wasting time considering them as a high consideration in Islam? any help would be appreciative....

Response: We have the authentic testimony from reliable narrators and transmissions, backed by a sophisticated science to confirm their reliability, that supersedes the concept of just having manuscripts. For even a manuscript is not reliable unless it comes from reliable witnesses, which is what the hadith collections reliability is based upon.

LOL. You Islamic propagandists are hilarious. When something is based on real science, it's a hoax, but when you conveniently apply made up-science, it's "sophisticated"
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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5/2/2015 12:05:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/2/2015 5:06:29 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:

do you have any site showing these manuscripts? at least some place where it situated? Suadia Iran? a place...

- Here a link to the al-Fihras ash-Shamil, Hadith Section, Tom 1, from page 493 to page 565, showing 2327 references of Sahih al-Bukhari's manuscripts (without accounting for the other hundreds of compilations based on it):
https://ia802501.us.archive.org...

- Here is a link to a complete manuscript of al-Bukhari:
https://ia600604.us.archive.org...

if you give me library (of manuscripts) for example of ibn Taymiyyah? because its really weird to me that we have many fields of Islamic Tradition as u said and we have manuscripts of these?

- Of course we have. Here is for example al-Fihras ash-Shamil, Fiqh Section, in 12 volumes (you'll find Ibn Taymiyyah's books there):
https://archive.org...

- The World Survey of Islamic Manuscripts so far gathered the references of over 3 million Islamic manuscripts,. Markaz Jum'at al-Jami' estimated there are 5 million arabic manuscripts around the world. In Turkey alone, there are over 250 thousands arabic manuscripts.

anyway jhaklahu khiran man u r awesome as usual :D

- Wa Jazaka Wa Ra'aka wa Aslaha Balaka. :)
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celestialtorahteacher
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5/3/2015 6:07:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Idolatry is bad because idols mesmerize believers and waste their time with diversions such as we see above, this continuation of Muhammad's obsessions carried out by blind faith believers who can't think beyond their idol's thoughts. It doesn't matter what the history of bad religious ideas is. What matters is seeing that they are bad ideas and that's real easy to do if you're not hypnotized by your religious idols. Bad ideas in religion end up killing people, innocent people. Bad religion propels bad believers into bad acts and that's all we need to know that whatever these clowns are reading is mind rot and poisonous to humanity. Action always speaks louder than words. Talk is cheap. So it is what people actually DO and not what they believe or say they believe that counts. It's what they do.

Please no more promotion of Bad Religion that contains orders to kill innocent people or terrorize them or persecute them. Dump the religious dictator and find God on your own merits and stop being lazy believers piggy-backing on one man's opinions about God who isn't you and never will be. The only authentic spiritual relationship between God and believer is One to one, no human intercessors necessary or desired.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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5/3/2015 6:16:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Every believer in God slaps God in the face when they can only contact God through other men's beliefs. It's like saying God can't reach individuals, only can reach certain men, one man for the hapless Muhammadans stuck with a religious dictator they can't see as such, they're desperation for someone, anyone, to lead them so they don't have to think on their own. Why would God want such lazy believers and their obviously phony spirituality that rests on other people's ideas and experiences? God wants believers to KNOW what they are doing and not be blind and led by mob rule in religious institutional form.

The earthly religions based on fictitious events and characters which are all the Abrahamic religions, are in their End Times now as the Bible stories they base their line of authority upon are exposed by historical science as mere ancient Hebrew myths of origin, about as historically accurate as Romulus and Remus suckled by wolves before founding Rome.