Total Posts:198|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

If atheism is true, what is the point?

zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 8:35:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

There is none.

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Is has no real significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.
Yup.


But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?
Nope. No makes no difference.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 8:36:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

You were going well until the last paragraph:

Atheism = violent sociopaths

Ask yoursef the question. If you knew that this life is it and death is a final end, then why would you be in a hurry to terminate such a precious gift? You would do better to ask a theist what the point of this Earthly existence is. They don't really know. For them it's just an inconvenient prelude to an eternal life in paradise. Why hang around here then?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,131
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 8:43:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

Atheism is disbelief of theists claims, not an alternative claim. Atheism is not a replacement for theism. Atheism is not a religion or contrary explanation to religion. Life is fragile and short - atheism has nothing to do with dealing with that fact. The point of life has nothing to do with atheism. Atheism provides no significance to life, nor is it supposed to. If the only thing keeping you from nutting out is religion, then by all means keep your faith.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 8:53:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

So you are saying it could be true that mythical characters are all fictional but there is also a possibility it might not be true and mythical characters might actually exist in reality?

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

Atheism is a lack of belief that any gods are real characters. It is a belief that all gods are mythical characters.

Asking " If atheism is true, what is the point of life?' is the same as asking... If all gods are mythical characters, what is the point of life?
That question is ridiculous to anyone whose life does not depend on whether mythical characters exist or not.
Do mythical characters give some kind of meaning to your life which you would lack without them?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Human life and action doesn't have any significance unless humans give it some significance.
Significance or lack of it is a subjective human judgment.
Life goes on with or without us. We are about as significant to life itself as a speck of dust is significant to you.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

If all gods are mythical characters it makes no difference at all to life in general. Life goes on with or without mythical characters to entertain us.
The meaning or "point" of life is to survive. Life keeps itself alive by destroying life. The living feed off the dead.
That is the cycle of life which keeps life sustaining life.
You are food.
You are a tasty morsel for other life forms.
You ( any life form ) is the BREAD of LIFE to all other life forms which you feed. You can be the food for their thoughts or ultimately become the physical food for worms and whatever else eats your body in the grave. You become fertilizer for Life.
You can also be that life form which gets chewed up and spat out by those who find you or your food for thought, distasteful.

The meaning or "point" of life is to reproduce and sustain life even in death.
IceCreamforBreakfast
Posts: 51
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 9:32:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

This is the difference between the selfish and lazy and the great and honorable/decent human being/non-criminal. Even as a christian growing up I was bombarded by messages of selflessness and respect/love for my neighbors.
400spartans
Posts: 36
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 9:43:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

Because being good helps the group. https://www.youtube.com...
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 10:04:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.
Atheism can neither be true nor false, because atheism is a response to the question," do you have a belief in a God(s)?" Atheists respond with a ,"no, I do not possess a belief in a God(s)."
Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.
Longevity is indeed absent in some human life, but it's your decision whether or not life will be fragile or fruitful. Receiving another perspective as to why life matters is interesting, but it should be relative to the person offering their opinion.
My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?
You don't need to establish if atheism is true (atheism as explained above is neither true nor false) because it is redundant to what value can be derived from life. Individuals assign value to their life.
If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.
As stated above, any significance found within life is done so at the individuals discretion.
Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.
Certainly, this is accurate.
But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?
I am an atheist, and I do in fact do what ever I please, but don't interpret that to be a smug attitude, because it is not. What I mean by that is, I derive morality from life experiences, I assign value to my life devoid of religious dogma, and devoid of societal influences. I don't find it necessary or helpful to subscribe to a faith, or affiliate with a religion. It is quite simple.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/7/2015 11:18:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

So, we have Pascal's wager as the back drop. Interesting. To answer the last question first: I don't feel like being incarcerated for life or executed is the most immediate retort, but then more over, I see no point in harming others. It still nets us nothing. The only reason to advocate for engaging in sociopathic behavior would be if one gains some satisfaction from dispensing misery.

Do you gain satisfaction from dispensing misery?

Were any degree of theism true, how would it have a point after we die? Regarding Christendom:
We were "nice" in the eyes of God. We go to heaven and sing praises to His name for the rest of eternity.
We were "Bad" in the eyes of God. We go to hell and be tortured for all eternity.

Both of those are equally pointless as nothing develops from there, either, and suffers from the conclusion of what people -should- do if they think an eternal paradise with a loving deity for eternity lay in wait afterward: kill themselves and join Him.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 12:30:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?
Sadly, Zoinks, the religious can apply similar logic: if the lives of the faithful are morally or metaphysically privileged by their faith, why not exploit, abuse, marginalise and persecute people outside their faith?

In fact, the more successful faiths -- Christianity and Islam in particular -- expanded from exactly this logic. In both faiths there is still hegemonism and persecution of outsiders today.

So what about atheism?

Atheism is not itself a belief. It's a sociological category capturing people who reject the authority of theological claims. The reasons for that rejection could be philosophical, moral, or political. Many atheists reject religion because they have moral and philosophical adherence incompatible with theology.

For such people, life is neither pointless nor amoral.

For some people, though-- nihilists, say -- it is.

Are many atheists nihilistic then?

I haven't seen a survey, but I know many atheists, and only know one who identifies as nihilist. Moreover, surveys show that atheists are no less moral and law-abiding than theists, and no less charitable. [http://www.livescience.com...]

So it seems evident to me that one can find both purpose and moral structure without needing to subscribe to the theological authority claimed from revelation.

(Interestingly, Deists agree -- only, they also believe in a Creator, while atheists either don't believe in a Creator, or are agnostic.)

I hope that may help.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 2:20:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:

yep of its true, means anything have no real meaning.... including morality,helping the poor, sacrificing for other people,preserving ancient stuff, caring for animals.... all of this is going to perish anyway so whats the difference if u help them or not? imagine becasue of some stupid laws of morality (that everyone got brainwashed by) u dont rob,steal,kill,lie... but u life 1 time! meaning if u dont live in "the best way possible u wasting your time bro! u go to war for your stupid country where u can live it once there but you sacrificing for the gov... humanitarian groups are just wasted of time these all we see is going to die in the future anyway..... if God doesnt exist your life would be a selfish disgusting life.

here is a good book of Richard Dawkins - the selfish gene..... yeah man without God its sucks.. its only about survival in reality even we dont see it like way... so if u rob a bank and become a millionaire is better milions times from getting a job and ripping your @ss every day.... remember its about survival!
Never fart near dog
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 9:13:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

Is that what you would do? Violence terrible acts? For what reason? Entertainment? Have you committed any violent terrible acts? Do you know anyone who has?

If what you said was true, and the fact there are millions of atheists worldwide, shouldn't we then be observing millions of violent terrible acts daily? Or, do we actually observe a very tiny minority of people committing such acts now and again?

Statistics show that prisons are filled with religious people, for the most part. That would indeed demonstrate religions offer no morals or ethics that would equate to "why life matters." Statistics also show the highest crime rates are those societies with the most religious affiliations, while the lowest rates are those with secular ideals.

Can you reconcile these contradictions to what you ask about life mattering? It would appear life matters more to those who are not slaves to religions. This is also evident in the fact that those religions that purport and afterlife are the ones with followers who could care less about life and instead look forward to death because they believe death is the beginning of their reward of an eternal afterlife. These religions espouse humans to be inherently evil by nature, which is contradictory to the nature we observe in humans, that of compassion and altruism. It is those religions that seek to destroy our nature in order to maintain the slavery.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 9:28:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 2:20:09 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:

yep of its true, means anything have no real meaning.... including morality,helping the poor, sacrificing for other people,preserving ancient stuff, caring for animals.... all of this is going to perish anyway so whats the difference if u help them or not?

It will "perish away" regardless of whether or not gods exist. The obvious difference of helping others and leading a good life is because that's how human nature evolved and what makes us happy, grow and learn. Religions seek to destroy our human nature and replace it with lies.

imagine becasue of some stupid laws of morality (that everyone got brainwashed by)

Yes, religions consider morals as being stupid, that's why they don't teach them. People come to morals through logic and reason, not being brainwashed, that's what religions do.

u dont rob,steal,kill,lie... but u life 1 time! meaning if u dont live in "the best way possible u wasting your time bro!

It's not about wasting time, it's about following our nature.

u go to war for your stupid country where u can live it once there but you sacrificing for the gov... humanitarian groups are just wasted of time these all we see is going to die in the future anyway.....

Religious people and non-religious people go to war for their countries. Irrelevant.

if God doesnt exist your life would be a selfish disgusting life.

LOL. That isn't even remotely true. Clearly, you don't get out much.

here is a good book of Richard Dawkins - the selfish gene.....

A book you've never read, obviously.

yeah man without God its sucks.. its only about survival in reality even we dont see it like way... so if u rob a bank and become a millionaire is better milions times from getting a job and ripping your @ss every day.... remember its about survival!

LOL. Survival doesn't mean robbing banks, that will only get you a long prison sentence.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 12:25:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 9:28:27 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/8/2015 2:20:09 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:

yep of its true, means anything have no real meaning.... including morality,helping the poor, sacrificing for other people,preserving ancient stuff, caring for animals.... all of this is going to perish anyway so whats the difference if u help them or not?

It will "perish away" regardless of whether or not gods exist. The obvious difference of helping others and leading a good life is because that's how human nature evolved and what makes us happy, grow and learn. Religions seek to destroy our human nature and replace it with lies.

wrong. with God there is afterlife.


imagine becasue of some stupid laws of morality (that everyone got brainwashed by)

Yes, religions consider morals as being stupid, that's why they don't teach them. People come to morals through logic and reason, not being brainwashed, that's what religions do.

double wrong. religion dont consider morals as stupid, many athiests consider that.
and of course u got brainwashed of morality of what people think is good, through logic robbing a bank for once in my life and becoming a rich is better from your stupid working all day and getting nothing.


u dont rob,steal,kill,lie... but u life 1 time! meaning if u dont live in "the best way possible u wasting your time bro!

It's not about wasting time, it's about following our nature.

wrong. which nature u talking about? your nature is what u consider to be your nature.


u go to war for your stupid country where u can live it once there but you sacrificing for the gov... humanitarian groups are just wasted of time these all we see is going to die in the future anyway.....

Religious people and non-religious people go to war for their countries. Irrelevant.

wrong. through atheistic point of view why i should go to war putting in dangerous position to be killed for some stupid poeple sitting in the white house? f"ck them if they want to go to war let them go. remember? 1 life.


if God doesnt exist your life would be a selfish disgusting life.

LOL. That isn't even remotely true. Clearly, you don't get out much.

wrong. without objective morality im sure most people 99.999% will do what good according to them.


here is a good book of Richard Dawkins - the selfish gene.....

A book you've never read, obviously.

wrong.


yeah man without God its sucks.. its only about survival in reality even we dont see it like way... so if u rob a bank and become a millionaire is better milions times from getting a job and ripping your @ss every day.... remember its about survival!

LOL. Survival doesn't mean robbing banks, that will only get you a long prison sentence.

wrong. every business people cheating in their dealings. thats the reality my son.

so u got 8 wrong answers my son, not bad for you! good job. next time try to reduce it...
Never fart near dog
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 12:33:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 12:25:26 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/8/2015 9:28:27 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/8/2015 2:20:09 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:

yep of its true, means anything have no real meaning.... including morality,helping the poor, sacrificing for other people,preserving ancient stuff, caring for animals.... all of this is going to perish anyway so whats the difference if u help them or not?

It will "perish away" regardless of whether or not gods exist. The obvious difference of helping others and leading a good life is because that's how human nature evolved and what makes us happy, grow and learn. Religions seek to destroy our human nature and replace it with lies.

wrong. with God there is afterlife.

Sorry, there is no evidence of an afterlife, that is just wishful thinking.


imagine becasue of some stupid laws of morality (that everyone got brainwashed by)

Yes, religions consider morals as being stupid, that's why they don't teach them. People come to morals through logic and reason, not being brainwashed, that's what religions do.

double wrong. religion dont consider morals as stupid, many athiests consider that.

Religion does not teach morals, they are the result of reason and logic.

and of course u got brainwashed of morality of what people think is good, through logic robbing a bank for once in my life and becoming a rich is better from your stupid working all day and getting nothing.

Clearly, you have no clue what logic entails.


u dont rob,steal,kill,lie... but u life 1 time! meaning if u dont live in "the best way possible u wasting your time bro!

It's not about wasting time, it's about following our nature.

wrong. which nature u talking about? your nature is what u consider to be your nature.

I'm talking about human nature.


u go to war for your stupid country where u can live it once there but you sacrificing for the gov... humanitarian groups are just wasted of time these all we see is going to die in the future anyway.....

Religious people and non-religious people go to war for their countries. Irrelevant.

wrong. through atheistic point of view why i should go to war putting in dangerous position to be killed for some stupid poeple sitting in the white house? f"ck them if they want to go to war let them go. remember? 1 life.

Irrelevant rant. Do you have a point?


if God doesnt exist your life would be a selfish disgusting life.

LOL. That isn't even remotely true. Clearly, you don't get out much.

wrong. without objective morality im sure most people 99.999% will do what good according to them.

Yes, I understand as a believer, you would believe that. But, the vast majority of people are compassionate and altruistic, that is, unless religion has destroyed that in them. It would certainly appear that is the case with you.


here is a good book of Richard Dawkins - the selfish gene.....

A book you've never read, obviously.

wrong.

LOL. I'm sure you haven't read that book.


yeah man without God its sucks.. its only about survival in reality even we dont see it like way... so if u rob a bank and become a millionaire is better milions times from getting a job and ripping your @ss every day.... remember its about survival!

LOL. Survival doesn't mean robbing banks, that will only get you a long prison sentence.

wrong. every business people cheating in their dealings. thats the reality my son.

Perhaps, that's how you do business, not surprisingly.

so u got 8 wrong answers my son, not bad for you! good job. next time try to reduce it...

LOL.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 12:36:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Atheists like the theists both know life is short. The atheist makes the most of it and tries to live life to the fullest.
The theist on the other hand spend most of his time in this world preparing for the next world out of expectation of a heaven.
The difference between the two is the Christians has expectations like winning a lottery. And prepares his life with the belief the lottery is his. Before you know it he is so much in debt that the lottery had better be real or he is doomed.
The atheist not caught up in such wishful thinking lives a normal life within his means and without illusions. A lottery in his case would be a big bonus...but he isn't going to go broke thinking about it.
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 5:43:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

There is none.

Then there is no logical reason for anyone not to do whatever they want - including "evil" acts.

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Is has no real significance.

Same as above.
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 5:45:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

You were going well until the last paragraph:

Atheism = violent sociopaths

I'm just using logic to reach a conclusion.

Ask yoursef the question. If you knew that this life is it and death is a final end, then why would you be in a hurry to terminate such a precious gift?

The "precious gift" will end regardless, and logically there is no reason not to do whatever one wishes if there are no consequences beyond the short existence we have in this life.
n7
Posts: 1,360
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 5:48:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

"An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death."- Madalyn Murray O'Hair
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 5:50:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

Atheism is disbelief of theists claims, not an alternative claim. Atheism is not a replacement for theism.

This has no relevance to what I said.

Life is fragile and short - atheism has nothing to do with dealing with that fact. The point of life has nothing to do with atheism.

Any belief system has to do with life and the point of life. The idea that there is nothing beyond this life (atheism) is certainly included in that.

Atheism provides no significance to life, nor is it supposed to.

Then atheism is pointless.

If the only thing keeping you from nutting out is religion, then by all means keep your faith.

First, this isn't about me personally. I'm just applying logic to the topic at hand.

Second, given your statement here, perhaps you'd think it wise for atheists to stop espousing their beliefs (or lack of belief). After all, if they convince someone they're right, it could end quite badly.
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 5:57:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

So you are saying it could be true that mythical characters are all fictional but there is also a possibility it might not be true and mythical characters might actually exist in reality?

I said nothing about mythical characters.

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

Atheism is a lack of belief that any gods are real characters. It is a belief that all gods are mythical characters.

I know what atheism is. It's a belief in no deity or deities. It has nothing to do with mythical characters.

You didn't answer the question.

Asking " If atheism is true, what is the point of life?' is the same as asking... If all gods are mythical characters, what is the point of life?

Again, it has nothing to do with mythical characters. You may believe that personally, but that's not atheism.

Do mythical characters give some kind of meaning to your life which you would lack without them?

Again, nothing I've asked is about mythical characters.

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Human life and action doesn't have any significance unless humans give it some significance.
Significance or lack of it is a subjective human judgment.

How, then, does atheism give anything significance?

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

If all gods are mythical characters it makes no difference at all to life in general. Life goes on with or without mythical characters to entertain us.

Great. It has nothing to do with this, but great.

The meaning or "point" of life is to survive. Life keeps itself alive by destroying life. The living feed off the dead.

Then there is no point to life, as the survival rate for everything live is zero. Everything dies.

You ( any life form ) is the BREAD of LIFE to all other life forms which you feed. You can be the food for their thoughts or ultimately become the physical food for worms and whatever else eats your body in the grave. You become fertilizer for Life.

And that will happen regardless of whatever you say or do. So again, how is what you say or do significant?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 6:07:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 12:36:42 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Atheists like the theists both know life is short. The atheist makes the most of it and tries to live life to the fullest.
The theist on the other hand spend most of his time in this world preparing for the next world out of expectation of a heaven.
The difference between the two is the Christians has expectations like winning a lottery
. And prepares his life with the belief the lottery is his. Before you know it he is so much in debt that the lottery had better be real or he is doomed.
The atheist not caught up in such wishful thinking lives a normal life within his means and without illusions. A lottery in his case would be a big bonus...but he isn't going to go broke thinking about it.

Wrong, you can't determine what it means to be Christian or its purpose, you won't listen because your colon is blocking your ears. What you asserted is the opposite of what it means to be Christian. When you love someone you love them for what and who they are not for what they have and what you can get, that is the wrong motive and has nothing to do with achieving spiritual understanding or relation with the Spirit of God.
John 4
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

But hey the little atheist Hindu speaks for others yet again rather than expressing his own beliefs, keep up the wishful thinking though.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 6:08:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 12:25:26 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/8/2015 9:28:27 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/8/2015 2:20:09 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:

yep of its true, means anything have no real meaning.... including morality,helping the poor, sacrificing for other people,preserving ancient stuff, caring for animals.... all of this is going to perish anyway so whats the difference if u help them or not?

It will "perish away" regardless of whether or not gods exist. The obvious difference of helping others and leading a good life is because that's how human nature evolved and what makes us happy, grow and learn. Religions seek to destroy our human nature and replace it with lies.

wrong. with God there is afterlife.


imagine becasue of some stupid laws of morality (that everyone got brainwashed by)

Yes, religions consider morals as being stupid, that's why they don't teach them. People come to morals through logic and reason, not being brainwashed, that's what religions do.

double wrong. religion dont consider morals as stupid, many athiests consider that.
and of course u got brainwashed of morality of what people think is good, through logic robbing a bank for once in my life and becoming a rich is better from your stupid working all day and getting nothing.


u dont rob,steal,kill,lie... but u life 1 time! meaning if u dont live in "the best way possible u wasting your time bro!

It's not about wasting time, it's about following our nature.

wrong. which nature u talking about? your nature is what u consider to be your nature.


u go to war for your stupid country where u can live it once there but you sacrificing for the gov... humanitarian groups are just wasted of time these all we see is going to die in the future anyway.....

Religious people and non-religious people go to war for their countries. Irrelevant.

wrong. through atheistic point of view why i should go to war putting in dangerous position to be killed for some stupid poeple sitting in the white house? f"ck them if they want to go to war let them go. remember? 1 life.


if God doesnt exist your life would be a selfish disgusting life.

LOL. That isn't even remotely true. Clearly, you don't get out much.

wrong. without objective morality im sure most people 99.999% will do what good according to them.


here is a good book of Richard Dawkins - the selfish gene.....

A book you've never read, obviously.

wrong.


yeah man without God its sucks.. its only about survival in reality even we dont see it like way... so if u rob a bank and become a millionaire is better milions times from getting a job and ripping your @ss every day.... remember its about survival!

LOL. Survival doesn't mean robbing banks, that will only get you a long prison sentence.

wrong. every business people cheating in their dealings. thats the reality my son.

so u got 8 wrong answers my son, not bad for you! good job. next time try to reduce it...

LMBO!!!
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 6:26:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

This is the difference between the selfish and lazy and the great and honorable/decent human being/non-criminal.

What reason is there to be great, honorable, or decent if atheism is true?

Even as a christian growing up I was bombarded by messages of selflessness and respect/love for my neighbors.

Christianity contains those teachings. Atheism does not.

If atheism is true, Christianity is not, therefore again I ask...why then be selfless, respectful, or loving?
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 6:27:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

Because being good helps the group. https://www.youtube.com...

Why care about the group if atheism is true?
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 6:30:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.
Atheism can neither be true nor false, because atheism is a response to the question," do you have a belief in a God(s)?" Atheists respond with a ,"no, I do not possess a belief in a God(s)."

Atheism is the concept of disbelief in a deity or deities. It is absolutely either true (there are no gods) or untrue (there is/are gods).

Longevity is indeed absent in some human life, but it's your decision whether or not life will be fragile or fruitful.

Life is always fragile. Everything dies.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

You don't need to establish if atheism is true (atheism as explained above is neither true nor false) because it is redundant to what value can be derived from life. Individuals assign value to their life.

First, atheism must be true or untrue - there is either a god or gods or there are not.

Second, if individuals assign their own value, what of those who need value after this life? If atheism is true, what of them?

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

I am an atheist, and I do in fact do what ever I please, but don't interpret that to be a smug attitude, because it is not. What I mean by that is, I derive morality from life experiences, I assign value to my life devoid of religious dogma, and devoid of societal influences. I don't find it necessary or helpful to subscribe to a faith, or affiliate with a religion. It is quite simple.

That's fine for you, but you didn't answer the questions I posed.
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 6:40:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/7/2015 11:18:24 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 5/7/2015 8:21:00 PM, zoinks wrote:
As a logical individual, I must admit atheism could be true. I'm not saying it IS true, but merely that it could be true.

Life is fragile and short. Most religions offer not only explanations as to why this is the case, but also as to why life matters.

My question, therefore, is this...

If atheism is true, what is the point of life?

If we exist for such a short time, then die, and that's the end, I don't see why anything we do has any REAL significance.

Sure, we could perhaps impact the lives of others in a positive and meaningful way. Maybe we could even make life better for many or most of the other people on this planet if we're of a particular significance - say, by curing a deadly disease or being a world leader.

But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

So, we have Pascal's wager as the back drop. Interesting.

Not exclusively, but in a manner of speaking, yes.

To answer the last question first: I don't feel like being incarcerated for life or executed is the most immediate retort, but then more over, I see no point in harming others. It still nets us nothing.

While there are possible consequences in this life, they can have a limited impact. Even a death sentence isn't so bad on an eternal scale, for we all must die and the only question is how long said death takes to overcome us.

The only reason to advocate for engaging in sociopathic behavior would be if one gains some satisfaction from dispensing misery.

True. Clearly, however, there are individuals (and groups) which indeed gain such satisfaction. Atheism offers them no reason not to indulge - or at least, none anyone has been thus far able to provide.

Do you gain satisfaction from dispensing misery?

Personally, no, I do not.

However, logic suggests if atheism is true, the "penalty" for such acts is quite limited (specifically to this life), so those who do get such satisfaction have little reason to hold back.

Were any degree of theism true, how would it have a point after we die?

Provided what we do in this life has an impact there, our actions here would have consequences there.

Regarding Christendom:
We were "nice" in the eyes of God. We go to heaven and sing praises to His name for the rest of eternity.

I know of no sect of Christianity which relies upon being "nice" to go to heaven. Most require some specific action to designate a belief in Christ; following teachings on how to treat others is seen as the proper thing to do, but is not required to go to heaven.

We were "Bad" in the eyes of God. We go to hell and be tortured for all eternity.

This is similar. Christianity teaches that everyone is technically "bad" and only those who take a specific belief action can avoid the consequences in eternity.

Both of those are equally pointless as nothing develops from there, either, and suffers from the conclusion of what people -should- do if they think an eternal paradise with a loving deity for eternity lay in wait afterward: kill themselves and join Him.

There are logical points against such reasoning, the most obvious being that since everyone eventually dies, there is no need to speed along the process to ensure an outcome which will happen regardless.

None of this answers my key questions, however.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,131
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 6:45:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/8/2015 5:50:25 PM, zoinks wrote:
But for the average person, if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

Atheism is disbelief of theists claims, not an alternative claim. Atheism is not a replacement for theism.

This has no relevance to what I said.

It has everything to do with the OP. Atheism is not an alternative worldview to theism - it is not even a worldview.

Life is fragile and short - atheism has nothing to do with dealing with that fact. The point of life has nothing to do with atheism.

Any belief system has to do with life and the point of life. The idea that there is nothing beyond this life (atheism) is certainly included in that.

Atheism is not a belief system. It is disbelief in the unsupported belief of others.

Atheism provides no significance to life, nor is it supposed to.

Then atheism is pointless.

If you try to make atheism into something that it is not - then yes, it has no use there. This is not an valid indictment of atheism, though.

If the only thing keeping you from nutting out is religion, then by all means keep your faith.

First, this isn't about me personally. I'm just applying logic to the topic at hand.

It seems your logic relies on a misunderstanding of what atheism actually is.

Second, given your statement here, perhaps you'd think it wise for atheists to stop espousing their beliefs (or lack of belief). After all, if they convince someone they're right, it could end quite badly.

That would be a fair point if I actually thought a god were necessary to determine right and wrong. I think it is plain - this is not something I believe.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
zoinks
Posts: 1,988
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/8/2015 6:49:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
if atheism is true, how does their life even matter? Why shouldn't they just do whatever they want - even violent, terrible acts - since the "worst" that can happen to them is death and then there is nothing?

Sadly, Zoinks, the religious can apply similar logic: if the lives of the faithful are morally or metaphysically privileged by their faith, why not exploit, abuse, marginalise and persecute people outside their faith?

Many faiths actively teach against such persecution, and most of those which don't also don't encourage it.

In fact, the more successful faiths -- Christianity and Islam in particular -- expanded from exactly this logic. In both faiths there is still hegemonism and persecution of outsiders today.

Christianity spread largely by word of mouth and the influences of key individuals and movements. There were some groups which espoused violence, but they are in the minority.

Islam has had a more checkered past, with Mohammed himself suggesting a peaceful spread of the movement at times, then changing and recommending using war tactics to get the job done.

While both faiths no doubt have those who believe in such ways today, by and large, both are spread through peaceful means in modern times.

Atheism is not itself a belief.

It is the specific belief in no deity or deities. Without such, it doesn't exist.

It's a sociological category capturing people who reject the authority of theological claims.

Not just any theological claims, but those regarding the existence of a deity or deities.

Rejection of any other tenet of a religion is of lesser significance, and can be (and is) done without being an atheist.

The reasons for that rejection could be philosophical, moral, or political. Many atheists reject religion because they have moral and philosophical adherence incompatible with theology.

For such people, life is neither pointless nor amoral.

What is the point, then?

I haven't seen a survey, but I know many atheists, and only know one who identifies as nihilist. Moreover, surveys show that atheists are no less moral and law-abiding than theists, and no less charitable. [http://www.livescience.com...]

Morality is subjective, as are laws.

Many religions do charitable things and give because of their beliefs, but I've never heard of any atheist giving to a charity BECAUSE they are an atheist.