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Reasons for Jesus!

mattrodstrom
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8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Lots of christians of a philosophical bent attempt to try to prove/defend God's existence (usually in a Rationalistic, anselmian wordplaying, way).

It seems such people are not satisfied with only holding to "faith" when it comes to being religious.... But believe there should be "Reason" to support their beliefs.

well... The reasons that I hear them espouse usually revolve around the existence of God... And Although they do not satisfy Me... people do actively come up with them.

I'd like to see those philosophically bent christians reasons for believing Not only in some Supreme "God" Being... but also why they would believe this Jesus fellow, talked about in the NT, IS God.

so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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8/6/2010 9:50:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Lots of christians of a philosophical bent attempt to try to prove/defend God's existence (usually in a Rationalistic, anselmian wordplaying, way).

It seems such people are not satisfied with only holding to "faith" when it comes to being religious.... But believe there should be "Reason" to support their beliefs.

well... The reasons that I hear them espouse usually revolve around the existence of God... And Although they do not satisfy Me... people do actively come up with them.

I'd like to see those philosophically bent christians reasons for believing Not only in some Supreme "God" Being... but also why they would believe this Jesus fellow, talked about in the NT, IS God.

so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.

You want a reason for Jesus? I'll give you a reason for Jesus.

Jesus had incredible magical powers. He could walk on water, cast out demons, and heal the sick. And we know that this is all true because the Bible says that it is true. Furthermore, we know that the Bible is true because it was written by God. Of course, we know that it was written by God because the Bible says it was. Q.E.D.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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8/6/2010 10:27:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
You just have to have "faith", as the clerics say – in other words, believe in the Bible and don't question it, no matter how odd its content may seem.

Say a priest walked into A Rolls-Royce showroom and told the salesman, who happened to be a devout Christian, that he wanted to buy a Phantom Drophead Coupe but added that he didn't have the money to pay for it right now and said "The Lord will provide me with the necessary funds in due course, my son, and when He does I will discharge my debt to you. You must have faith in me as I have faith in the Lord to come up with the cash."

I'm sure the salesman hand the priest the keys to the car, wouldn't he?
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/6/2010 11:45:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.
Children get told that like they get told that Santa Claus exists. However, sometime in their lives they get taught by their priests or parents that Santa Claus does not exist, while they never get told that Jesus (peace be upon him) is not God.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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8/6/2010 11:58:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 11:45:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.
Children get told that like they get told that Santa Claus exists. However, sometime in their lives they get taught by their priests or parents that Santa Claus does not exist, while they never get told that Jesus (peace be upon him) is not God.

If you read the scripture Mizra; its generally agreed you have to think him either 'insane' 'diabolic' or 'god incarnate'
either he was telling the truth, he was mad, or evil. there is no room for saying he was just 'a good teacher'
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Mirza
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8/6/2010 12:03:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 11:58:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
If you read the scripture Mizra; its generally agreed you have to think him either 'insane' 'diabolic' or 'god incarnate'
either he was telling the truth, he was mad, or evil. there is no room for saying he was just 'a good teacher'
Any person in the Bible that says that he does nothing of his will, but of God's, and that God is greater than him, and who even prays to God, is one of high rank, and when we talk about one who fully submits his will to God, we are talking about a Prophet. If Jesus wanted people to know that he is God, he would have said it cut and clear that he is God and wants to be worshiped, but he never said it. when he said "I and the Father are One" he meant one in principle, meaning they both are good-doers etc. Jesus called his disciples some who are in him and he being in God, and who are all one. Are all the disciples one with him and God? Yes, in their hearts, but not as beings.
Marauder
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8/6/2010 12:05:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 9:50:03 AM, Freeman wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Lots of christians of a philosophical bent attempt to try to prove/defend God's existence (usually in a Rationalistic, anselmian wordplaying, way).

It seems such people are not satisfied with only holding to "faith" when it comes to being religious.... But believe there should be "Reason" to support their beliefs.

well... The reasons that I hear them espouse usually revolve around the existence of God... And Although they do not satisfy Me... people do actively come up with them.

I'd like to see those philosophically bent christians reasons for believing Not only in some Supreme "God" Being... but also why they would believe this Jesus fellow, talked about in the NT, IS God.

so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.

You want a reason for Jesus? I'll give you a reason for Jesus.

Jesus had incredible magical powers. He could walk on water, cast out demons, and heal the sick. And we know that this is all true because the Bible says that it is true. Furthermore, we know that the Bible is true because it was written by God. Of course, we know that it was written by God because the Bible says it was. Q.E.D.

no, we know the bibles is true, because (to quote the historian Bill Cooper) it passes more test for historic accuracy than anyone would dare give any other book that has ever existed. but for some reason they don't, that level of testing is reserved for the bible itself for some reason.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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8/6/2010 12:09:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:03:53 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/6/2010 11:58:44 AM, Marauder wrote:
If you read the scripture Mizra; its generally agreed you have to think him either 'insane' 'diabolic' or 'god incarnate'
either he was telling the truth, he was mad, or evil. there is no room for saying he was just 'a good teacher'
Any person in the Bible that says that he does nothing of his will, but of God's, and that God is greater than him, and who even prays to God, is one of high rank, and when we talk about one who fully submits his will to God, we are talking about a Prophet. If Jesus wanted people to know that he is God, he would have said it cut and clear that he is God and wants to be worshiped, but he never said it. when he said "I and the Father are One" he meant one in principle, meaning they both are good-doers etc. Jesus called his disciples some who are in him and he being in God, and who are all one. Are all the disciples one with him and God? Yes, in their hearts, but not as beings.

the Father is higher than the Son, but that does not mean they are not both the same God. My body and my soul are not the same and at the same time they are both equally me yet I am not 1/2 body and 1/2 soul, the two simply overlap

and Mizra, how do you get around the language of John chapter 1? Jesus is the 'Word' the word 'was' god and it was at the same time it was 'with' god.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/6/2010 12:13:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:05:59 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:50:03 AM, Freeman wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Lots of christians of a philosophical bent attempt to try to prove/defend God's existence (usually in a Rationalistic, anselmian wordplaying, way).

It seems such people are not satisfied with only holding to "faith" when it comes to being religious.... But believe there should be "Reason" to support their beliefs.

well... The reasons that I hear them espouse usually revolve around the existence of God... And Although they do not satisfy Me... people do actively come up with them.

I'd like to see those philosophically bent christians reasons for believing Not only in some Supreme "God" Being... but also why they would believe this Jesus fellow, talked about in the NT, IS God.

so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.

You want a reason for Jesus? I'll give you a reason for Jesus.

Jesus had incredible magical powers. He could walk on water, cast out demons, and heal the sick. And we know that this is all true because the Bible says that it is true. Furthermore, we know that the Bible is true because it was written by God. Of course, we know that it was written by God because the Bible says it was. Q.E.D.

no, we know the bibles is true, because (to quote the historian Bill Cooper) it passes more test for historic accuracy than anyone would dare give any other book that has ever existed. but for some reason they don't, that level of testing is reserved for the bible itself for some reason.

Is there any evidence for the census to which Joseph and Mary travelled to.

I ask this because the stated nature of the census seems anachronistic, harmful to the local economy and also means that Joseph and Mary would not have been travelling alone.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/6/2010 12:13:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:09:55 PM, Marauder wrote:
the Father is higher than the Son, but that does not mean they are not both the same God. My body and my soul are not the same and at the same time they are both equally me yet I am not 1/2 body and 1/2 soul, the two simply overlap
Your body does not pray to your soul. Your soul is the core of your life. Your soul is <you>. It is not greater than you. Any soul that is greater than you is not your soul.

and Mizra, how do you get around the language of John chapter 1? Jesus is the 'Word' the word 'was' god and it was at the same time it was 'with' god.
The last word in John 1:1 is divine, not God. The translators mistranslated it to make their point.

Matthew 24:36 mentions that nobody, not even the Son (Jesus) knows the appointed date of the Day of Judgment. However, this of course proves that Jesus is not God, so what did some translators do? Wipe out "the Son."
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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8/6/2010 12:30:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:13:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/6/2010 12:09:55 PM, Marauder wrote:
the Father is higher than the Son, but that does not mean they are not both the same God. My body and my soul are not the same and at the same time they are both equally me yet I am not 1/2 body and 1/2 soul, the two simply overlap
Your body does not pray to your soul. Your soul is the core of your life. Your soul is <you>. It is not greater than you. Any soul that is greater than you is not your soul.

the analogy was not meant to be perfectly parallel. Just to explain how two things can be separate things and yet be the same thing in the triune overlapping fashion. I know the soul is not greater than the body or vice versa.

and Mizra, how do you get around the language of John chapter 1? Jesus is the 'Word' the word 'was' god and it was at the same time it was 'with' god.
The last word in John 1:1 is divine, not God. The translators mistranslated it to make their point.

Matthew 24:36 mentions that nobody, not even the Son (Jesus) knows the appointed date of the Day of Judgment. However, this of course proves that Jesus is not God, so what did some translators do? Wipe out "the Son."

I have never seen a translation that wipes out the word 'Son' in that passage. And it doesn't mean he is not God, it means that aspect of the trinity does not store that piece of knowledge.

also, theirs nothing wrong with there translation http://www.bibletopics.com... theos means god, theois is divine.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/6/2010 12:32:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
So no chance of defending the historical accuracy of the bible then?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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8/6/2010 12:33:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:18:48 PM, Mirza wrote:
And an extra point here is that if God even became one of his beings, the Law of Omnipresence would be violated.

no, because as the Father he is still everywhere. only a particular aspect of the Godhead (the Word) is particularly expressing itself in a particular place (the incarnation)
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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8/6/2010 12:37:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:13:23 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/6/2010 12:05:59 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:50:03 AM, Freeman wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Lots of christians of a philosophical bent attempt to try to prove/defend God's existence (usually in a Rationalistic, anselmian wordplaying, way).

It seems such people are not satisfied with only holding to "faith" when it comes to being religious.... But believe there should be "Reason" to support their beliefs.

well... The reasons that I hear them espouse usually revolve around the existence of God... And Although they do not satisfy Me... people do actively come up with them.

I'd like to see those philosophically bent christians reasons for believing Not only in some Supreme "God" Being... but also why they would believe this Jesus fellow, talked about in the NT, IS God.

so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.

You want a reason for Jesus? I'll give you a reason for Jesus.

Jesus had incredible magical powers. He could walk on water, cast out demons, and heal the sick. And we know that this is all true because the Bible says that it is true. Furthermore, we know that the Bible is true because it was written by God. Of course, we know that it was written by God because the Bible says it was. Q.E.D.

no, we know the bibles is true, because (to quote the historian Bill Cooper) it passes more test for historic accuracy than anyone would dare give any other book that has ever existed. but for some reason they don't, that level of testing is reserved for the bible itself for some reason.

Is there any evidence for the census to which Joseph and Mary travelled to.

I ask this because the stated nature of the census seems anachronistic, harmful to the local economy and also means that Joseph and Mary would not have been travelling alone.

you can take an argument from me about one little point in the bible, or you can take it from a real historian that understands how to test books for their accuracy like Bill Cooper. personally I think Bill Cooper would be the wiser way to go http://ldolphin.org...
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/6/2010 12:37:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:30:52 PM, Marauder wrote:
the analogy was not meant to be perfectly parallel. Just to explain how two things can be separate things and yet be the same thing in the triune overlapping fashion. I know the soul is not greater than the body or vice versa.
I am challenging your belief in what the Bible says, not what plain logic says about three different beings being one being. You can use this example, but when it is violated, you cannot. Jesus destroyed this example by saying that God is greater than him, not a separate being, and by praying to Him, and many other things.

I have never seen a translation that wipes out the word 'Son' in that passage. And it doesn't mean he is not God, it means that aspect of the trinity does not store that piece of knowledge.
Jesus being God would mean that he knows all the same things as God. Why would he not? So, he does not because he is not God.

also, theirs nothing wrong with there translation http://www.bibletopics.com... theos means god, theois is divine.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was <divine>.

Ton theos is not the same as ho theos. The former is god or divine, the latter is with capital starting letters.
Mirza
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8/6/2010 12:39:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:33:01 PM, Marauder wrote:
no, because as the Father he is still everywhere. only a particular aspect of the Godhead (the Word) is particularly expressing itself in a particular place (the incarnation)
No. By definition, God is omnipresent because He is not a being that limits His greatness. However, any of His beings are not as great as He, so they violate omnipresence. It is violated if God became any of His beings because by logic, they are violating the Law of Omnipresence already.

And God does not violate any Laws.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/6/2010 12:40:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:37:17 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 8/6/2010 12:13:23 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/6/2010 12:05:59 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:50:03 AM, Freeman wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Lots of christians of a philosophical bent attempt to try to prove/defend God's existence (usually in a Rationalistic, anselmian wordplaying, way).

It seems such people are not satisfied with only holding to "faith" when it comes to being religious.... But believe there should be "Reason" to support their beliefs.

well... The reasons that I hear them espouse usually revolve around the existence of God... And Although they do not satisfy Me... people do actively come up with them.

I'd like to see those philosophically bent christians reasons for believing Not only in some Supreme "God" Being... but also why they would believe this Jesus fellow, talked about in the NT, IS God.

so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.

You want a reason for Jesus? I'll give you a reason for Jesus.

Jesus had incredible magical powers. He could walk on water, cast out demons, and heal the sick. And we know that this is all true because the Bible says that it is true. Furthermore, we know that the Bible is true because it was written by God. Of course, we know that it was written by God because the Bible says it was. Q.E.D.

no, we know the bibles is true, because (to quote the historian Bill Cooper) it passes more test for historic accuracy than anyone would dare give any other book that has ever existed. but for some reason they don't, that level of testing is reserved for the bible itself for some reason.

Is there any evidence for the census to which Joseph and Mary travelled to.

I ask this because the stated nature of the census seems anachronistic, harmful to the local economy and also means that Joseph and Mary would not have been travelling alone.

you can take an argument from me about one little point in the bible, or you can take it from a real historian that understands how to test books for their accuracy like Bill Cooper. personally I think Bill Cooper would be the wiser way to go http://ldolphin.org...

Please show me a link that addresses the issue I have raised.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
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8/6/2010 12:58:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:37:49 PM, Mirza wrote:

I am challenging your belief in what the Bible says, not what plain logic says about three different beings being one being. You can use this example, but when it is violated, you cannot. Jesus destroyed this example by saying that God is greater than him, not a separate being, and by praying to Him, and many other things.

Plane logic say's after you have accepted that part of the concept, there's no reason one part of the triune figure cant be greater while in that relationship with each other.

Jesus being God would mean that he knows all the same things as God. Why would he not? So, he does not because he is not God.
You forget that the only thing that limits god is his own love. to accomplish the task of living like a man to become the ransom limitations in power, knowledge, ect... would be necessary. for his own duration on Earth one would expect God to limit himself.

also, theirs nothing wrong with there translation http://www.bibletopics.com... theos means god, theois is divine.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was <divine>.

Ton theos is not the same as ho theos. The former is god or divine, the latter is with capital starting letters.

Its time's like these I wish I actually knew and understood other languages, rather than need to copy and paste from some website that sounds like it agrees with me and pretend I know what I am talking about.
you have had me here. I don't actually know what I am talking about (when it comes to other languages, and to a small degree even my own) but also I cant truly understand rebuttal to it either cause I also don't know what your talking about as much as I dont understand what I was talking about. needless to say I am hesitant to change my beliefs based on a correction in an area in something that I am still ignorant in.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
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8/6/2010 1:02:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:39:27 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/6/2010 12:33:01 PM, Marauder wrote:
no, because as the Father he is still everywhere. only a particular aspect of the Godhead (the Word) is particularly expressing itself in a particular place (the incarnation)
No. By definition, God is omnipresent because He is not a being that limits His greatness. However, any of His beings are not as great as He, so they violate omnipresence. It is violated if God became any of His beings because by logic, they are violating the Law of Omnipresence already.

And God does not violate any Laws.

He violates the laws of nature when he parted the red sea, when he stopped the son in the sky and when turned moses staff into a snake, then into a crocodile before the pharo. he violated the Laws when Jesus rose from the dead
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
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8/6/2010 1:05:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:40:10 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/6/2010 12:37:17 PM, Marauder wrote:

you can take an argument from me about one little point in the bible, or you can take it from a real historian that understands how to test books for their accuracy like Bill Cooper. personally I think Bill Cooper would be the wiser way to go http://ldolphin.org...

Please show me a link that addresses the issue I have raised.

buy the book if you need to, it addresses the issue of accuracy as a whole, rather than independent issues of accuracy witch are unimportant.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
mattrodstrom
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8/6/2010 2:50:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Reasons for Jesus!

can anyone spare some reasons!

reasons for Jesus, please...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/6/2010 11:23:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 1:05:19 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 8/6/2010 12:40:10 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/6/2010 12:37:17 PM, Marauder wrote:

you can take an argument from me about one little point in the bible, or you can take it from a real historian that understands how to test books for their accuracy like Bill Cooper. personally I think Bill Cooper would be the wiser way to go http://ldolphin.org...

Please show me a link that addresses the issue I have raised.

buy the book if you need to, it addresses the issue of accuracy as a whole, rather than independent issues of accuracy witch are unimportant.

Do not claim that the bible is historically accurate and then refuse to substantiate your claim.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
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8/7/2010 4:05:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 12:58:53 PM, Marauder wrote:
Plane logic say's after you have accepted that part of the concept, there's no reason one part of the triune figure cant be greater while in that relationship with each other.
You are using this logic:

Body and soul = life

Life = body and soul

Both are one, i.e. life.

However, I do not need that logic. I need evidence from the Bible which would be more logical. But there is no such evidence. Jesus clearly said that God is greater than himself, and many other things. It impossible that they are one.

You forget that the only thing that limits god is his own love. to accomplish the task of living like a man to become the ransom limitations in power, knowledge, ect... would be necessary. for his own duration on Earth one would expect God to limit himself.
It is your own view, nothing that the Bible says. Jesus would know all the same things as God. He would not pray to God, ever.

Its time's like these I wish I actually knew and understood other languages, rather than need to copy and paste from some website that sounds like it agrees with me and pretend I know what I am talking about.
You can look at dictionaries.

you have had me here. I don't actually know what I am talking about (when it comes to other languages, and to a small degree even my own) but also I cant truly understand rebuttal to it either cause I also don't know what your talking about as much as I dont understand what I was talking about. needless to say I am hesitant to change my beliefs based on a correction in an area in something that I am still ignorant in.
The point is that the last word for "and the word was <God/Divine/god/divine>" is usually translated as "God" while the original word is "ton theos" which is not "God" or "Divine" but "god" and "divine." And God is always with a capital letter, so the word is divine, not God. Jesus was made of a divine Word, like Adam, but the Word was not "God" but "divine."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/7/2010 4:08:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 1:02:03 PM, Marauder wrote:
He violates the laws of nature when he parted the red sea, when he stopped the son in the sky and when turned moses staff into a snake, then into a crocodile before the pharo. he violated the Laws when Jesus rose from the dead
No, that is not the same. God is not the Red Sea. However, God is omnipresent. If He violated this law, He would violate His nature, which He does not. He can make everything disappear which would "technically" violate the Law of the Universe, but not His own Laws at all. In fact, His Laws are the main ones. No Laws can exist without His, and therefore, He would not want to violate the Law of Omnipresence by becoming one of His beings.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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8/7/2010 12:42:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 11:45:05 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.
Children get told that like they get told that Santa Claus exists. However, sometime in their lives they get taught by their priests or parents that Santa Claus does not exist, while they never get told that Jesus (peace be upon him) is not God.

So, when are you going to debate me on this? You said you would eventually.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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8/7/2010 12:52:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/6/2010 9:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Lots of christians of a philosophical bent attempt to try to prove/defend God's existence (usually in a Rationalistic, anselmian wordplaying, way).


Lol @ "wordplay".

It seems such people are not satisfied with only holding to "faith" when it comes to being religious.... But believe there should be "Reason" to support their beliefs.


Tell me - can you come up with a definition of faith that isn't a caricature?

well... The reasons that I hear them espouse usually revolve around the existence of God... And Although they do not satisfy Me... people do actively come up with them.

I'd like to see those philosophically bent christians reasons for believing Not only in some Supreme "God" Being... but also why they would believe this Jesus fellow, talked about in the NT, IS God.

so... what's some good reasons for Believing Jesus is god.

Because Jesus claimed to be and performed many actions, had many attributes, and claimed many titles specifically reserved for God. And there is not a good reason to doubt that is what he claimed.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Mason0612
Posts: 160
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8/7/2010 12:55:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Because Jesus claimed to be and performed many actions, had many attributes, and claimed many titles specifically reserved for God. And there is not a good reason to doubt that is what he claimed.

Yes, there are many good reasons to doubt what he claimed. Also, do you think there is a good reason to doubt Greek mythology, astrology, or any other faiths?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/7/2010 12:57:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/7/2010 12:42:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
So, when are you going to debate me on this? You said you would eventually.

Mirza's also backing out of his debate(s) with me >.<

Anyway - Epistimologically speaking, theists have the BOP (instigating the positive claim God exists). However, they have NO proof God exists. Therefore it's illogical and irrational to believe in God. Meanwhile, their comeback is "Well you can't prove God doesn't exist." Well first, I don't believe that's true (I think logic disproves God) but second, that doesn't even matter. Why would you believe in a mystical being that defies logic and reason without substantial evidence? I mean God is a helluva claim to be making. I'm not quite sure how theists are so adament with so little proof. If they were making a claim about a similar thing without the word "God" they'd be seen as nuts/retarded.
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