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Evidence of the Exodus?

tejretics
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5/16/2015 3:23:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What is the evidence present for the events of the Exodus, the Book of Exodus and its related tales in the Torah, Jewish Bible and Christian Old Testament?

"The archeological evidence does not support the story told in the Book of Exodus and most archaeologists have therefore abandoned the investigation of Moses and the Exodus as 'a fruitless pursuit'." [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

The sources for this statement are:
Carol Meyers (2005). Exodus. p. 5. Cambridge University Press.
William Denver (2001). What Did the Biblical Writers Know, and When Did They Know It? p. 99. Eerdmans.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
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5/16/2015 4:00:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 3:34:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
There is no evidence to support any of the less than credible claims in the Bible!

Precisely my point.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Gentorev
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5/16/2015 4:01:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 3:34:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
There is no evidence to support any of the less than credible claims in the Bible!

The exodus of the Israelites and the departure of the Hyksos Shepherd Kings in 1567 BC, were one and the same event.
bulproof
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5/16/2015 6:25:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 4:01:31 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/16/2015 3:34:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
There is no evidence to support any of the less than credible claims in the Bible!

The exodus of the Israelites and the departure of the Hyksos Shepherd Kings in 1567 BC, were one and the same event.

Any evidence?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Gentorev
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5/16/2015 7:33:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 6:25:28 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/16/2015 4:01:31 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/16/2015 3:34:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
There is no evidence to support any of the less than credible claims in the Bible!

The exodus of the Israelites and the departure of the Hyksos Shepherd Kings in 1567 BC, were one and the same event.

Any evidence?

From the Encarta encyclopedia, "Hyksos (Egyptian, "foreign rulers"), Semitic invaders who conquered Egypt in the early part of the 17th century BC and founded the 15th Dynasty. Sweeping south into Egypt, probably from Palestine and Syria, they and their nomadic followers captured Memphis and exacted tribute from the rest of the country. They established a stronghold at Avaris (possibly the later Tanis), on the northeastern border of the Nile delta, but left the territory above Memphis under the rule of tributary princes of the old nobility. These vassals started the nationalistic revolt that finally, under Ahmose I (reigned 1570-1546 BC), founder of the 18th Dynasty, drove out the foreign rulers."

Although it is said in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites had lived in Egypt for 430 years, in Galatians 3: 17; Paul makes it quite clear that they were in the land of Egypt for only 225 years. Gal 3: 17; "God made a covenant with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law that was given 430 years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God"s promise." And so, the reason why there are no records of the Exodus in the time period in which our historians have searched and which the bible students, who believe the erroneous statement that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years and must therefore have departed somewhere in the time period of the 1300 B.C, is because the Exodus and the expulsion of the old Hyksos Kings in the 15TH century B.C, are one and the same event.

In the early part of the 17TH century B.C, Semetic invaders (Called Hyksos) swept into Egypt, most likely from Palestine and Syria. They would control Egypt for roughly two centuries." --- (225 years if we are to believe the Bible.) The establishment of a Hyksos dynasty in northern Egypt marked the beginning of the Second Intermediate period, a time of turmoil and disunity that lasted for more than 225 years.

According to the compilers of Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, they date the exodus at somewhere around the year of 1500 BC about the period when the island of Santorini or Thira blew it"s top, when seismic waves flooded Egyptian croplands, causing catastrophic events.

Abraham was 85 when God first made his covenant with him, Isaac was born 15 years after the covenant, when Abraham was 100. Isaac was 60 when his son Jacob was born and Jacob was 130 when he was reunited with his son Joseph in the land of Egypt. 15+60+130=205. So we see that there was a period of 205 years between the covenant and the entry of the family of Israel into Egypt, where they dwelt for 225 years before departing 430 years after God"s covenant was made with Abraham.

From "The World Book Dictionary," (Hyksos) "A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt"from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings." --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, "Hyksos", invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of "King Tutimaios" entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567 B.C.

Genesis 41: Joseph is made Governor of all Egypt, and all Egyptians were command by the King to obey him. The King removed his royal ring with its engraved seal and put it on the finger of Joseph. He was given the second royal chariot and a guard of Honour who went ahead of him crying out, make way, make way. And the King said: I am King, but no one in all of Egypt shall so much as lift a hand or a foot without Joseph"s permission. He gave Joseph an Egyptian wife, Asenath, the daughter of the High priest of Heliopolis.

During the seven years of plenty, Joseph taxed the Egyptians a percentage of their grain crops, which was stored in silos throughout Egypt. When the seven year drought started to take effect, they were then forced to buy back their grain, and when their money was exhausted, they traded their live stock for food, eventually, they were forced to sign their land over to Joseph in order to survive.

Genesis 47: 20-21; Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for the king. Every Egyptian was forced sell their land, because the famine was so severe; Joseph made slaves of all the people from one end of Egypt to the other, without striking a blow.

Taking into account the many other variables to numerous to be bothered about here, and knowing that the records of the different historians, although very close to each other in the dates of the Hyksos dynasty in Egypt, are yet still in conflict with their contemporaries, I believe that the essence of what they are saying is in total harmony to the spirit of God"s Word, and that with a little more research they will prove to the world that the exodus occurred at the precise time as the expulsion of the Shepherd Kings.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%. If the exodus of the Shepherd Kings did occur in 1567 BC, and Jericho was destroyed 38 years after 1562 (minus 38 years) this would mean that Jericho fell in the year of 1529 BC, close enough to the 40 years after the Exodus that the bible states that Jericho was destroyed.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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5/16/2015 7:43:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:33:50 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:25:28 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/16/2015 4:01:31 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/16/2015 3:34:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
There is no evidence to support any of the less than credible claims in the Bible!

The exodus of the Israelites and the departure of the Hyksos Shepherd Kings in 1567 BC, were one and the same event.

Any evidence?

From the Encarta encyclopedia, "Hyksos (Egyptian, "foreign rulers"), Semitic invaders who conquered Egypt in the early part of the 17th century BC and founded the 15th Dynasty. Sweeping south into Egypt, probably from Palestine and Syria, they and their nomadic followers captured Memphis and exacted tribute from the rest of the country. They established a stronghold at Avaris (possibly the later Tanis), on the northeastern border of the Nile delta, but left the territory above Memphis under the rule of tributary princes of the old nobility. These vassals started the nationalistic revolt that finally, under Ahmose I (reigned 1570-1546 BC), founder of the 18th Dynasty, drove out the foreign rulers."

Although it is said in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites had lived in Egypt for 430 years, in Galatians 3: 17; Paul makes it quite clear that they were in the land of Egypt for only 225 years. Gal 3: 17; "God made a covenant with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law that was given 430 years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God"s promise." And so, the reason why there are no records of the Exodus in the time period in which our historians have searched and which the bible students, who believe the erroneous statement that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years and must therefore have departed somewhere in the time period of the 1300 B.C, is because the Exodus and the expulsion of the old Hyksos Kings in the 15TH century B.C, are one and the same event.

In the early part of the 17TH century B.C, Semetic invaders (Called Hyksos) swept into Egypt, most likely from Palestine and Syria. They would control Egypt for roughly two centuries." --- (225 years if we are to believe the Bible.) The establishment of a Hyksos dynasty in northern Egypt marked the beginning of the Second Intermediate period, a time of turmoil and disunity that lasted for more than 225 years.

According to the compilers of Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, they date the exodus at somewhere around the year of 1500 BC about the period when the island of Santorini or Thira blew it"s top, when seismic waves flooded Egyptian croplands, causing catastrophic events.

Abraham was 85 when God first made his covenant with him, Isaac was born 15 years after the covenant, when Abraham was 100. Isaac was 60 when his son Jacob was born and Jacob was 130 when he was reunited with his son Joseph in the land of Egypt. 15+60+130=205. So we see that there was a period of 205 years between the covenant and the entry of the family of Israel into Egypt, where they dwelt for 225 years before departing 430 years after God"s covenant was made with Abraham.

From "The World Book Dictionary," (Hyksos) "A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt"from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings." --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, "Hyksos", invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of "King Tutimaios" entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567 B.C.

Genesis 41: Joseph is made Governor of all Egypt, and all Egyptians were command by the King to obey him. The King removed his royal ring with its engraved seal and put it on the finger of Joseph. He was given the second royal chariot and a guard of Honour who went ahead of him crying out, make way, make way. And the King said: I am King, but no one in all of Egypt shall so much as lift a hand or a foot without Joseph"s permission. He gave Joseph an Egyptian wife, Asenath, the daughter of the High priest of Heliopolis.

During the seven years of plenty, Joseph taxed the Egyptians a percentage of their grain crops, which was stored in silos throughout Egypt. When the seven year drought started to take effect, they were then forced to buy back their grain, and when their money was exhausted, they traded their live stock for food, eventually, they were forced to sign their land over to Joseph in order to survive.

Genesis 47: 20-21; Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for the king. Every Egyptian was forced sell their land, because the famine was so severe; Joseph made slaves of all the people from one end of Egypt to the other, without striking a blow.

Taking into account the many other variables to numerous to be bothered about here, and knowing that the records of the different historians, although very close to each other in the dates of the Hyksos dynasty in Egypt, are yet still in conflict with their contemporaries, I believe that the essence of what they are saying is in total harmony to the spirit of God"s Word, and that with a little more research they will prove to the world that the exodus occurred at the precise time as the expulsion of the Shepherd Kings.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%. If the exodus of the Shepherd Kings did occur in 1567 BC, and Jericho was destroyed 38 years after 1562 (minus 38 years) this would mean that Jericho fell in the year of 1529 BC, close enough to the 40 years after the Exodus that the bible states that Jericho was destroyed.

So your answer is no.
Archeology proves that the story of the exodus is just a lie the Canaanites who became hebrews told themselves as self justification.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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5/16/2015 7:55:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[37] 1 Kings 6:1 says that the Exodus occurred 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple; this would imply an Exodus c.1446 BCE, during Egypt's Eighteenth Dynasty.[38] However, it is widely recognised that the number in 1 Kings is symbolic,[39] representing twelve generations of forty years each.[40] (The number 480 is not only symbolic " the twelve generations " but schematic: Solomon's temple (the First Temple) is founded 480 years after the Exodus and 480 years before the foundation of the Second Temple).[41] There are also major archeological obstacles in dating the Exodus to the Eighteenth Dynasty: Canaan at the time was a part of the Egyptian empire, so that the Israelites would in effect be escaping from Egypt to Egypt, and its cities were unwalled and do not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account of the occupation of the land (e.g., Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) [t]here was also no sign of a destruction". (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002).[42]

William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed an alternative 13th century date of around 1250"1200 BCE for the Exodus event and the entry into Canaan described in the Book of Joshua.[43] (The Merneptah Stele indicated that a people called "Israel" were already known in Canaan by the reign of Merneptah (1213"1203 BCE), so a date later than this was impossible). His argument was based on many strands of evidence, including archaeologically attested destruction at Beitel (Bethel) and some other cities at around that period and the occurrence of distinctive house-types and round-collared jars which, in his opinion, were "Israelite".[43] Albright's theory enjoyed popularity at the time, but has now been generally abandoned in scholarship:[43] the so-called "Israelite" house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, and other items which Albright thought distinctive and new have now been recognised as continuations of indigenous Canaanite types,[44] and while some "Joshua" cities, including Hazor, Lachish, Megiddo and others, have destruction and transition layers around 1250"1145 BCE, others, including Jericho, have none or were uninhabited during this period.[45][46]

Details in the story hint that a complex and multilayered editing process has been at work: the Exodus cities of Pithom and Rameses, for example, were not inhabited during most of the New Kingdom period, and the forty years of wilderness wanderings are also full of inconsistencies and anachronisms.[47] It is therefore best to treat the Exodus story not as the record of a single historical event but as a "powerful collective memory of the Egyptian occupation of Canaan and the enslavement of its population" during the 13th and 12th centuries (Ann Killebrew, 2005).[47]
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
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5/16/2015 7:58:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:55:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[37] 1 Kings 6:1 says that the Exodus occurred 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple; this would imply an Exodus c.1446 BCE, during Egypt's Eighteenth Dynasty.[38] However, it is widely recognised that the number in 1 Kings is symbolic,[39] representing twelve generations of forty years each.[40] (The number 480 is not only symbolic " the twelve generations " but schematic: Solomon's temple (the First Temple) is founded 480 years after the Exodus and 480 years before the foundation of the Second Temple).[41] There are also major archeological obstacles in dating the Exodus to the Eighteenth Dynasty: Canaan at the time was a part of the Egyptian empire, so that the Israelites would in effect be escaping from Egypt to Egypt, and its cities were unwalled and do not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account of the occupation of the land (e.g., Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) [t]here was also no sign of a destruction". (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002).[42]

William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed an alternative 13th century date of around 1250"1200 BCE for the Exodus event and the entry into Canaan described in the Book of Joshua.[43] (The Merneptah Stele indicated that a people called "Israel" were already known in Canaan by the reign of Merneptah (1213"1203 BCE), so a date later than this was impossible). His argument was based on many strands of evidence, including archaeologically attested destruction at Beitel (Bethel) and some other cities at around that period and the occurrence of distinctive house-types and round-collared jars which, in his opinion, were "Israelite".[43] Albright's theory enjoyed popularity at the time, but has now been generally abandoned in scholarship:[43] the so-called "Israelite" house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, and other items which Albright thought distinctive and new have now been recognised as continuations of indigenous Canaanite types,[44] and while some "Joshua" cities, including Hazor, Lachish, Megiddo and others, have destruction and transition layers around 1250"1145 BCE, others, including Jericho, have none or were uninhabited during this period.[45][46]

Details in the story hint that a complex and multilayered editing process has been at work: the Exodus cities of Pithom and Rameses, for example, were not inhabited during most of the New Kingdom period, and the forty years of wilderness wanderings are also full of inconsistencies and anachronisms.[47] It is therefore best to treat the Exodus story not as the record of a single historical event but as a "powerful collective memory of the Egyptian occupation of Canaan and the enslavement of its population" during the 13th and 12th centuries (Ann Killebrew, 2005).[47]

On the other hand, general consensus by other archaeologists suggests Exodus never happened.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
bulproof
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5/16/2015 8:03:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:58:53 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/16/2015 7:55:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[37] 1 Kings 6:1 says that the Exodus occurred 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple; this would imply an Exodus c.1446 BCE, during Egypt's Eighteenth Dynasty.[38] However, it is widely recognised that the number in 1 Kings is symbolic,[39] representing twelve generations of forty years each.[40] (The number 480 is not only symbolic " the twelve generations " but schematic: Solomon's temple (the First Temple) is founded 480 years after the Exodus and 480 years before the foundation of the Second Temple).[41] There are also major archeological obstacles in dating the Exodus to the Eighteenth Dynasty: Canaan at the time was a part of the Egyptian empire, so that the Israelites would in effect be escaping from Egypt to Egypt, and its cities were unwalled and do not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account of the occupation of the land (e.g., Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) [t]here was also no sign of a destruction". (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002).[42]

William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed an alternative 13th century date of around 1250"1200 BCE for the Exodus event and the entry into Canaan described in the Book of Joshua.[43] (The Merneptah Stele indicated that a people called "Israel" were already known in Canaan by the reign of Merneptah (1213"1203 BCE), so a date later than this was impossible). His argument was based on many strands of evidence, including archaeologically attested destruction at Beitel (Bethel) and some other cities at around that period and the occurrence of distinctive house-types and round-collared jars which, in his opinion, were "Israelite".[43] Albright's theory enjoyed popularity at the time, but has now been generally abandoned in scholarship:[43] the so-called "Israelite" house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, and other items which Albright thought distinctive and new have now been recognised as continuations of indigenous Canaanite types,[44] and while some "Joshua" cities, including Hazor, Lachish, Megiddo and others, have destruction and transition layers around 1250"1145 BCE, others, including Jericho, have none or were uninhabited during this period.[45][46]

Details in the story hint that a complex and multilayered editing process has been at work: the Exodus cities of Pithom and Rameses, for example, were not inhabited during most of the New Kingdom period, and the forty years of wilderness wanderings are also full of inconsistencies and anachronisms.[47] It is therefore best to treat the Exodus story not as the record of a single historical event but as a "powerful collective memory of the Egyptian occupation of Canaan and the enslavement of its population" during the 13th and 12th centuries (Ann Killebrew, 2005).[47]

On the other hand, general consensus by other archaeologists suggests Exodus never happened.

Yes that is what these paragraphs say.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Gentorev
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5/16/2015 8:39:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:55:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[37] 1 Kings 6:1 says that the Exodus occurred 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple; this would imply an Exodus c.1446 BCE, during Egypt's Eighteenth Dynasty.[38] However, it is widely recognised that the number in 1 Kings is symbolic,[39] representing twelve generations of forty years each.[40] (The number 480 is not only symbolic " the twelve generations " but schematic: Solomon's temple (the First Temple) is founded 480 years after the Exodus and 480 years before the foundation of the Second Temple).[41] There are also major archeological obstacles in dating the Exodus to the Eighteenth Dynasty: Canaan at the time was a part of the Egyptian empire, so that the Israelites would in effect be escaping from Egypt to Egypt, and its cities were unwalled and do not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account of the occupation of the land (e.g., Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) [t]here was also no sign of a destruction". (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002).[42]

William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed an alternative 13th century date of around 1250"1200 BCE for the Exodus event and the entry into Canaan described in the Book of Joshua.[43] (The Merneptah Stele indicated that a people called "Israel" were already known in Canaan by the reign of Merneptah (1213"1203 BCE), so a date later than this was impossible). His argument was based on many strands of evidence, including archaeologically attested destruction at Beitel (Bethel) and some other cities at around that period and the occurrence of distinctive house-types and round-collared jars which, in his opinion, were "Israelite".[43] Albright's theory enjoyed popularity at the time, but has now been generally abandoned in scholarship:[43] the so-called "Israelite" house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, and other items which Albright thought distinctive and new have now been recognised as continuations of indigenous Canaanite types,[44] and while some "Joshua" cities, including Hazor, Lachish, Megiddo and others, have destruction and transition layers around 1250"1145 BCE, others, including Jericho, have none or were uninhabited during this period.[45][46]

Details in the story hint that a complex and multilayered editing process has been at work: the Exodus cities of Pithom and Rameses, for example, were not inhabited during most of the New Kingdom period, and the forty years of wilderness wanderings are also full of inconsistencies and anachronisms.[47] It is therefore best to treat the Exodus story not as the record of a single historical event but as a "powerful collective memory of the Egyptian occupation of Canaan and the enslavement of its population" during the 13th and 12th centuries (Ann Killebrew, 2005).[47]

Gentorev.............Remembering that your selected scholars believed the Israel was in Egypt for 43O years, whereas they wee only there for 225 years.

Wikipedia: The first scientific investigation of the site of Jericho was carried out by Charles Warren in 1868, but amounted to no more than a site-survey (Warren's prime interest was in establishing the modern equivalents of Biblical locales). In 1907-09 and again in 1911 digging was carried out by two German archaeologists, Carl Watzinger and Ernest Sellin. Watzinger and Sellin believed that they would be able to validate the Biblical story of Jericho's destruction by Joshua and the Israelites, but concluded instead that the data indicated that the city was unoccupied at the time which the Bible indicated for the Conquest.

These results were tested in 1930-36 by John Garstang, at the suggestion of William F. Albright, the doyen of Palestinian archaeology at the time. Garstang discovered the remains of a network of collapsed walls which he dated to about 1400 BCE, the time he believed the Israelites were on their conquest, that had apparently fallen in a dramatic fashion as opposed to being ruined by abandonment or decay from natural forces. Garstang's work thus reversed the conclusions of the earlier diggings.

By the post-war period a revolution had occurred in archaeological methodology, and Albright accordingly asked Kathleen Kenyon, one of the most respected practitioners of the new archaeology, to excavate at Jericho once more. Kenyon dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952-1958. Kenyon traced the entire history of the city from the earliest Neolithic settlement. She did this by digging a narrow deep trench maintaining clean, squared off edges, rigorously examining the soil and recording its stratification, and thus building up a cross-section of the tell. When presented with an area that would require wider areas to be excavated - the floor plan of a house for example - she carefully dug in measured squares while leaving an untouched strip between each section to allow the stratification to remain visible. Kenyon reported that her work showed Garstang to have been wrong and the Germans right - Jericho had been deserted at the accepted Biblical date of the Conquest. Her result was confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction to 1562 BCE (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

The Shepherd Kings are believed to have left Egypt in 1570 BC, where as Josephus the historian states that the Hyksos who he identifies as the Israelites, departed Egypt in 1567 BC.
dee-em
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5/16/2015 8:47:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:33:50 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:25:28 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/16/2015 4:01:31 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/16/2015 3:34:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
There is no evidence to support any of the less than credible claims in the Bible!

The exodus of the Israelites and the departure of the Hyksos Shepherd Kings in 1567 BC, were one and the same event.

Any evidence?

From the Encarta encyclopedia, "Hyksos (Egyptian, "foreign rulers"), Semitic invaders who conquered Egypt in the early part of the 17th century BC and founded the 15th Dynasty. Sweeping south into Egypt, probably from Palestine and Syria, they and their nomadic followers captured Memphis and exacted tribute from the rest of the country. They established a stronghold at Avaris (possibly the later Tanis), on the northeastern border of the Nile delta, but left the territory above Memphis under the rule of tributary princes of the old nobility. These vassals started the nationalistic revolt that finally, under Ahmose I (reigned 1570-1546 BC), founder of the 18th Dynasty, drove out the foreign rulers."

Although it is said in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites had lived in Egypt for 430 years, in Galatians 3: 17; Paul makes it quite clear that they were in the land of Egypt for only 225 years. Gal 3: 17; "God made a covenant with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law that was given 430 years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God"s promise." And so, the reason why there are no records of the Exodus in the time period in which our historians have searched and which the bible students, who believe the erroneous statement that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years and must therefore have departed somewhere in the time period of the 1300 B.C, is because the Exodus and the expulsion of the old Hyksos Kings in the 15TH century B.C, are one and the same event.

In the early part of the 17TH century B.C, Semetic invaders (Called Hyksos) swept into Egypt, most likely from Palestine and Syria. They would control Egypt for roughly two centuries." --- (225 years if we are to believe the Bible.) The establishment of a Hyksos dynasty in northern Egypt marked the beginning of the Second Intermediate period, a time of turmoil and disunity that lasted for more than 225 years.

According to the compilers of Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, they date the exodus at somewhere around the year of 1500 BC about the period when the island of Santorini or Thira blew it"s top, when seismic waves flooded Egyptian croplands, causing catastrophic events.

Abraham was 85 when God first made his covenant with him, Isaac was born 15 years after the covenant, when Abraham was 100. Isaac was 60 when his son Jacob was born and Jacob was 130 when he was reunited with his son Joseph in the land of Egypt. 15+60+130=205. So we see that there was a period of 205 years between the covenant and the entry of the family of Israel into Egypt, where they dwelt for 225 years before departing 430 years after God"s covenant was made with Abraham.

From "The World Book Dictionary," (Hyksos) "A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt"from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings." --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, "Hyksos", invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of "King Tutimaios" entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567 B.C.

Genesis 41: Joseph is made Governor of all Egypt, and all Egyptians were command by the King to obey him. The King removed his royal ring with its engraved seal and put it on the finger of Joseph. He was given the second royal chariot and a guard of Honour who went ahead of him crying out, make way, make way. And the King said: I am King, but no one in all of Egypt shall so much as lift a hand or a foot without Joseph"s permission. He gave Joseph an Egyptian wife, Asenath, the daughter of the High priest of Heliopolis.

During the seven years of plenty, Joseph taxed the Egyptians a percentage of their grain crops, which was stored in silos throughout Egypt. When the seven year drought started to take effect, they were then forced to buy back their grain, and when their money was exhausted, they traded their live stock for food, eventually, they were forced to sign their land over to Joseph in order to survive.

Genesis 47: 20-21; Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for the king. Every Egyptian was forced sell their land, because the famine was so severe; Joseph made slaves of all the people from one end of Egypt to the other, without striking a blow.

Taking into account the many other variables to numerous to be bothered about here, and knowing that the records of the different historians, although very close to each other in the dates of the Hyksos dynasty in Egypt, are yet still in conflict with their contemporaries, I believe that the essence of what they are saying is in total harmony to the spirit of God"s Word, and that with a little more research they will prove to the world that the exodus occurred at the precise time as the expulsion of the Shepherd Kings.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%. If the exodus of the Shepherd Kings did occur in 1567 BC, and Jericho was destroyed 38 years after 1562 (minus 38 years) this would mean that Jericho fell in the year of 1529 BC, close enough to the 40 years after the Exodus that the bible states that Jericho was destroyed.

There is something which puzzles me. If you believe that Moses was historical, on the spot, and penned Exodus, how could he get the 430 years wrong? You are basically saying that the Bible is lying. And how could Paul, over 1500 years later, possibly know this "correct" answer of 225 years? That stretches credibility to the limit.
bulproof
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5/16/2015 9:49:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 8:39:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:
Gentorev.............Remembering that your selected scholars believed the Israel was in Egypt for 43O years, whereas they wee only there for 225 years.

Read the article.
They don't believe the jews were in Egypt at all except that Canaan was a part of Egypt for the time the exodus is claimed.
The Jews, Hebrews or whatever they want to be named never left Canaan, they are Canaanites.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DanneJeRusse
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5/16/2015 10:27:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 3:23:03 AM, tejretics wrote:
What is the evidence present for the events of the Exodus, the Book of Exodus and its related tales in the Torah, Jewish Bible and Christian Old Testament?

"The archeological evidence does not support the story told in the Book of Exodus and most archaeologists have therefore abandoned the investigation of Moses and the Exodus as 'a fruitless pursuit'." [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

The sources for this statement are:
Carol Meyers (2005). Exodus. p. 5. Cambridge University Press.
William Denver (2001). What Did the Biblical Writers Know, and When Did They Know It? p. 99. Eerdmans.

I was far more inclined to read about Ramses II, his life and his accomplishments, of which were many. This was one very busy guy. There is no way he would have accomplished what he did had the Exodus occurred. Not only that, there is no indication whatsoever that such an event occurred during his lifetime.

It is asserted that Moses and Aaron approached Ramses in his fifth year of reign after his defeat at Kadesh, his second campaign against Syria. However, just two years later, Ramses set out on several more campaigns against Syria, with his son, Amun-her-khepeshef leading one of the main forces. Over the next few years, Ramses continued to expand his campaigns as far as Dapur.

How did Ramses manage to do all of this and be in Egypt at the same time dealing with Moses and the so-called plagues?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
tejretics
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5/16/2015 10:49:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 10:27:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/16/2015 3:23:03 AM, tejretics wrote:
What is the evidence present for the events of the Exodus, the Book of Exodus and its related tales in the Torah, Jewish Bible and Christian Old Testament?

"The archeological evidence does not support the story told in the Book of Exodus and most archaeologists have therefore abandoned the investigation of Moses and the Exodus as 'a fruitless pursuit'." [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

The sources for this statement are:
Carol Meyers (2005). Exodus. p. 5. Cambridge University Press.
William Denver (2001). What Did the Biblical Writers Know, and When Did They Know It? p. 99. Eerdmans.

I was far more inclined to read about Ramses II, his life and his accomplishments, of which were many. This was one very busy guy. There is no way he would have accomplished what he did had the Exodus occurred. Not only that, there is no indication whatsoever that such an event occurred during his lifetime.

It is asserted that Moses and Aaron approached Ramses in his fifth year of reign after his defeat at Kadesh, his second campaign against Syria. However, just two years later, Ramses set out on several more campaigns against Syria, with his son, Amun-her-khepeshef leading one of the main forces. Over the next few years, Ramses continued to expand his campaigns as far as Dapur.

How did Ramses manage to do all of this and be in Egypt at the same time dealing with Moses and the so-called plagues?

Exactly.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
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5/17/2015 4:21:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bump.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Skepticalone
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5/17/2015 8:11:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 7:33:50 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/16/2015 6:25:28 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/16/2015 4:01:31 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/16/2015 3:34:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
There is no evidence to support any of the less than credible claims in the Bible!

The exodus of the Israelites and the departure of the Hyksos Shepherd Kings in 1567 BC, were one and the same event.

Any evidence?

From the Encarta encyclopedia, "Hyksos (Egyptian, "foreign rulers"), Semitic invaders who conquered Egypt in the early part of the 17th century BC and founded the 15th Dynasty. Sweeping south into Egypt, probably from Palestine and Syria, they and their nomadic followers captured Memphis and exacted tribute from the rest of the country. They established a stronghold at Avaris (possibly the later Tanis), on the northeastern border of the Nile delta, but left the territory above Memphis under the rule of tributary princes of the old nobility. These vassals started the nationalistic revolt that finally, under Ahmose I (reigned 1570-1546 BC), founder of the 18th Dynasty, drove out the foreign rulers."

Although it is said in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites had lived in Egypt for 430 years, in Galatians 3: 17; Paul makes it quite clear that they were in the land of Egypt for only 225 years. Gal 3: 17; "God made a covenant with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law that was given 430 years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God"s promise."

What? Gal 3:17 reinforces 430 years of slavery.

And so, the reason why there are no records of the Exodus in the time period in which our historians have searched and which the bible students, who believe the erroneous statement that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years and must therefore have departed somewhere in the time period of the 1300 B.C, is because the Exodus and the expulsion of the old Hyksos Kings in the 15TH century B.C, are one and the same event.

I am not aware of any records that corroborate your assertion of an exodus from Egypt in the 15th century. Plus, if you set the Exodus in the 18th dynasty Canaan was still part of Egypt, so the Israelites would be escaping from Egypt by going to Egypt. I think it is safe to say, that didn't happen.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
DanneJeRusse
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5/17/2015 9:36:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/16/2015 8:39:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:

The Shepherd Kings are believed to have left Egypt in 1570 BC, where as Josephus the historian states that the Hyksos who he identifies as the Israelites, departed Egypt in 1567 BC.

Sorry, but Seqenenre Tao, who was the Pharaoh at that time, was thought to have been killed during a 30 year war with the kind of Hyksos that started in his reign and ended with the reign of his son, Ahmose I, who was a child at the time and eventually took power when he came of age, during which time, his mother ruled over Egypt. It was much later on during his reign, his expulsion of the Hykos from the delta region restored Theban rule, and he went on to reopen trade routes, mining quarries and set out on massive construction projects.

Perhaps, the stories of the Exodus are merely a representation of the expulsion of the Hyksos. None of this has anything to do with slaves or someone called Moses.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Gentorev
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5/17/2015 10:27:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 9:36:55 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/16/2015 8:39:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:

The Shepherd Kings are believed to have left Egypt in 1570 BC, where as Josephus the historian states that the Hyksos who he identifies as the Israelites, departed Egypt in 1567 BC.

Sorry, but Seqenenre Tao, who was the Pharaoh at that time, was thought to have been killed during a 30 year war with the kind of Hyksos that started in his reign and ended with the reign of his son, Ahmose I, who was a child at the time and eventually took power when he came of age, during which time, his mother ruled over Egypt. It was much later on during his reign, his expulsion of the Hykos from the delta region restored Theban rule, and he went on to reopen trade routes, mining quarries and set out on massive construction projects.

Perhaps, the stories of the Exodus are merely a representation of the expulsion of the Hyksos. None of this has anything to do with slaves or someone called Moses.

From the Encyclopedia Britannica, "Hyksos", invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of "King Tutimaios" entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow and it is said here that Joseph the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567B.C.

The departure of the Shepherd Kings is thought to have occurred around the time that the Island of Santorini exploded, and archaeological evidence,puts the eruption between about 1550 and 1500 BC. But for more discussion on that subject, see the article on the Minoan eruption.

Although radiocarbon dating of an olive tree imbedded in lava would appear to indicate a 1600 BCE eruption of Santorini/Thera, that is, if the lava that it was imbedded in was from the actual eruption that devastated the island and its surrounding districts and not from an earlier minor lava flow, there are many archeologists who still believe that the date is contradicted by findings in Egyptian and Theran excavations.

Buried Egyptian and Cypriot pottery found on Thera were dated to a later period than the radiometric dates for the eruption, and, since the conventional Egyptian chronology has been established by numerous archaeological studies, the exact date of the eruption remains controversial

Because of all the contradicting evidence, the exact date of the eruption has been difficult to determine. For most of the twentieth century, archaeologists placed it at approximately 1500 BCE, but this date appeared to be too young as radiocarbon dating analysis of that olive tree which was buried beneath "A" lava flow from the volcano on Santorini, indicate that the particular lava flow in which the olive tree was imbedded, occurred between 1627 BCE and 1600 BCE.

But at Tell el Dab'a in Egypt, pumice found at this location has been dated to 1540 BCE, closer to the traditionally accepted date of Thera's eruption. This matches the composition of the Thera eruption.

Encarta......."In the early part of the 17th century B.C, Semetic invaders (called Hyksos) swept into Egypt, most likely from Palestine and Syria. They would control Egypt for roughly two centuries.----The establishment of a Hyksos dynasty in northern Egypt marked the beginning of the Second intermediate period which lasted for more than 214 years".

From "The World Book Dictionary," (Hyksos) "A succession of 6 foreign rulers of Egypt"from about 1730 to about 1570 B.C.; Shepherd Kings."

From the Encyclopaedia Britannica, (Hyksos): Invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of "King Tutimaios" entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow."

Others are more in tune with the Biblical account, which shows that the Shemite rulers made slaves of the people without striking a blow, selling their own grain back to them until they had no more money, then taking all their stock and possessions as payment for the grain that they had been taxed and finally being forced to relinquish their land to King Tutimaios, Genesis 47: 20, "Joseph bought all the land in Egypt for the king. Every Egyptian was forced to sell his land," and become a slave to the king who died in 1674 B.C. long after establishing Joseph as ruler over all Egypt.

The Wikipedia Historicity of Jericho, continues.......... The first scientific investigation of the site of Jericho was carried out by Charles Warren in 1868, but amounted to no more than a site-survey (Warren's prime interest was in establishing the modern equivalents of Biblical locales). In 1907-09 and again in 1911 digging was carried out by two German archaeologists, Carl Watzinger and Ernest Sellin. Watzinger and Sellin believed that they would be able to validate the Biblical story of Jericho's destruction by Joshua and the Israelites, but concluded instead that the data indicated that the city was unoccupied at the time which the Bible indicated for the Conquest.

These results were tested in 1930-36 by John Garstang, at the suggestion of William F. Albright, the doyen of Palestinian archaeology at the time. Garstang discovered the remains of a network of collapsed walls which he dated to about 1400 BCE, the time he believed the Israelites were on their conquest, that had apparently fallen in a dramatic fashion as opposed to being ruined by abandonment or decay from natural forces. Garstang's work thus reversed the conclusions of the earlier diggings.

By the post-war period a revolution had occurred in archaeological methodology, and Albright accordingly asked Kathleen Kenyon, one of the most respected practitioners of the new archaeology, to excavate at Jericho once more. Kenyon dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952-1958. Kenyon traced the entire history of the city from the earliest Neolithic settlement. She did this by digging a narrow deep trench maintaining clean, squared off edges, rigorously examining the soil and recording its stratification, and thus building up a cross-section of the tell. When presented with an area that would require wider areas to be excavated - the floor plan of a house for example - she carefully dug in measured squares while leaving an untouched strip between each section to allow the stratification to remain visible. Kenyon reported that her work showed Garstang to have been wrong and the Germans right - Jericho had been deserted at the accepted Biblical date of the Conquest. Her result was confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction to 1562 BCE (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

Kathleen Kenyon, has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jericho was destroyed some 40 years or thereabouts, after the expulsion of the Shepherd Kings around the time of the eruption of the island of Santorini or Thira.
bulproof
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5/17/2015 10:37:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At least 2million people plus livestock wandered a postage stamp sized desert for 40yrs and never left a trace, even though their leader allegedly slaughtered 23,000 of them in one night.
I hope the tooth fairy comes for your falsies tonight.
But beware of the goblins under you caravan.
Always hide under the bedclothes as the madman does.
Or you could find us some bones.
No??
I didn't think so.
ROFLMAO.
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Gentorev
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5/17/2015 10:51:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Continued from post #19.

It is believed that the Shepherd kings departed Egypt around that time that the volcanic Island of Santorini, or Thira as it is also known, exploded.

The Island of Santorini which was situated in the Aegean sea , on the Anatolian plate, which is subject to the forces of the over-riding African Plate that grinds against the Arabian plate in it"s Northern migration, exploded with many times the force of Krakatoa, which was a volcanic island that exploded in 1883, and that explosion was heard 5,000 kilometres away, and caused a tsunami that killed at least 36,000 people.

It has been estimated that when the island of Santorini exploded, 35,000 kilometers of material was lifted into the heavens, and that the explosive force would have created tidal waves of anything up to 130 ft high which would have travelled at speeds of around 150 miles per hour.

A cloud, that turned day into night sometime around 1,500 BC, has been recorded in Chinese history, and would have covered all of North Africa.

The African and Arabian plates intersect in a line that runs through the Red Sea and up the Jordan valley through the Dead Sea, which was created hundreds of years before the explosion of Santorini, when violent underground activity destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which were then situated in the Jordan valley and in the days of Lot, that area was described, as like unto the garden of the Lord, with abundant fresh water flowing through it.

Look at the strange phenomenon that was occurring at the time of the Exodus. The cloud that blanketed north Africa and most of Europe, and turned day into a night so dark that a man was not able to recognise his own brother who was standing at arms length from him.

The rain of sulphuric acid that caused so much crop failure and the death of the live stock which were forced to feed on the polluted pastures, the following series of shock waves along the great rift valley and the fractures in the Sini peninsular which is situated on the Arabian plate, the bulging of the earth"s crust beneath the Red Sea which caused a highway to rise from the waters, with its following tremor when it collapsed and tidal waves that rolled in like two walls of water on either side of where the highway had been.

Wisdom of Solomon 19: 7-8, "Then was beheld the cloud that shadowed the camp, and dry land rising up out of what was before water, Out of the Red sea an unhindered highway, and a grassy plain rising out of the violent surge."

Look even where the Israelites camped on the shore of the Red sea, which was smack bang in the middle of a major coal field in Egypt. The bulging earth rising from the surging sea before them, pressurised gas screaming from the opening fissures creating towering pillars of fire to burn behind them, a strong east wind blew all that night causing the thick smoke to blind the pursuing Egyptians while lighting up the camp of the Israelites on the eastern side of those wild fires.

Solomon has much to say about the days of Moses; he speaks of the strange hails that fell from heaven. Burning balls of frozen gases, some with the ability to burn even in water, some which burned with a heat so intense that they incinerated anything they came in contact with, while other hail, burned with a cold fire through which animals could walk unharmed.

Solomon also speaks of the cloud that covered the Israelites in the desert and of the Manna that fell from heaven during the night. According to Solomon, the heavenly covering was a cloud by day and a host of stars by night, (a night sky ablaze with falling balls of burning hail stones). Then concerning the heavenly Manna, he says, "And that which was not injured by fire, (Burning hail stones) simply warmed by a faint sun beam melted away.

Each morning the desert floor was covered with a film of a flaky cellulose substance which would melt and breed worms and stink if left out in the sun, and yet could be preserved when cooked, it looked something like coriander seed, and tasted like biscuit mixed with the purest of olive oils..

Carbohydrates are any of a group of chemical compounds, including sugars, starches, and cellulose, containing carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen only, with the ratio of hydrogen to oxygen atoms usually 2 : 1; and there was plenty of those compounds floating around in the stratosphere after the explosion of Santorini.

Perhaps, if our scientists could simulate the same conditions that occurred in the stratosphere when the island of Thira exploded, they may come up with an inexpensive and environmentally friendly source of food production to feed the starving millions on the earth.

The early Egyptian magicians or scientists were able to duplicate some of the miracles of God as performed by Moses. Wouldn"t it be wonderful if our magician/scientists of today were able to perform the more mysterious of God"s miracles as seen in the days of Moses, and provide an abundant and cheap source of food to feed the ever growing population on this earth.

All those things that happened in Egypt at that time were caused from pressures that had built up over many, many, thousands of years. Where the miracle is found, is in the fact that some invisible entity from some higher time dimension, (The SON of MAN) was able to instigate the Exodus, at the precise time that the destructive forces beneath the island of Santorini, were beginning to awaken.
bulproof
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5/17/2015 11:03:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
23,000 skeletons who your fellow godbotherer (madman) states were picked up by god and hidden to disguise his atrocity.

Just like he did with the hundreds of thousands of bones he hid to avoid knowledge of his flood.

The angels claim that all of the bones god wanted hidden are on the moon. But who can believe angels?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DanneJeRusse
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5/17/2015 11:55:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 10:27:28 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 5/17/2015 9:36:55 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/16/2015 8:39:27 AM, Gentorev wrote:

The Shepherd Kings are believed to have left Egypt in 1570 BC, where as Josephus the historian states that the Hyksos who he identifies as the Israelites, departed Egypt in 1567 BC.

Sorry, but Seqenenre Tao, who was the Pharaoh at that time, was thought to have been killed during a 30 year war with the kind of Hyksos that started in his reign and ended with the reign of his son, Ahmose I, who was a child at the time and eventually took power when he came of age, during which time, his mother ruled over Egypt. It was much later on during his reign, his expulsion of the Hykos from the delta region restored Theban rule, and he went on to reopen trade routes, mining quarries and set out on massive construction projects.

Perhaps, the stories of the Exodus are merely a representation of the expulsion of the Hyksos. None of this has anything to do with slaves or someone called Moses.

From the Encyclopedia Britannica, "Hyksos", invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of "King Tutimaios"

Sorry, but the information regarding Tutimaios is tenuous at best and is not supported by historical fact.

entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow and it is said here that Joseph the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567B.C.

Sorry, whatever Joseph says does not align with Egyptian history.

From the Encyclopaedia Britannica, (Hyksos): Invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of "King Tutimaios" entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow."

Others are more in tune with the Biblical account...

The Biblical account is irrelevant when matched with Egyptian history.

Watzinger and Sellin believed that they would be able to validate the Biblical story of Jericho's destruction by Joshua and the Israelites, but concluded instead that the data indicated that the city was unoccupied at the time which the Bible indicated for the Conquest.

These results were tested in 1930-36 by John Garstang, at the suggestion of William F. Albright, the doyen of Palestinian archaeology at the time. Garstang discovered the remains of a network of collapsed walls which he dated to about 1400 BCE, the time he believed the Israelites were on their conquest, that had apparently fallen in a dramatic fashion as opposed to being ruined by abandonment or decay from natural forces. Garstang's work thus reversed the conclusions of the earlier diggings.

By the post-war period a revolution had occurred in archaeological methodology, and Albright accordingly asked Kathleen Kenyon, one of the most respected practitioners of the new archaeology, to excavate at Jericho once more. Kenyon dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952-1958. Kenyon traced the entire history of the city from the earliest Neolithic settlement. She did this by digging a narrow deep trench maintaining clean, squared off edges, rigorously examining the soil and recording its stratification, and thus building up a cross-section of the tell. When presented with an area that would require wider areas to be excavated - the floor plan of a house for example - she carefully dug in measured squares while leaving an untouched strip between each section to allow the stratification to remain visible. Kenyon reported that her work showed Garstang to have been wrong and the Germans right - Jericho had been deserted at the accepted Biblical date of the Conquest. Her result was confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction to 1562 BCE (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

Kathleen Kenyon, has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jericho was destroyed some 40 years or thereabouts, after the expulsion of the Shepherd Kings around the time of the eruption of the island of Santorini or Thira.

LOL. Sorry, but she did no such thing.

"Moreover, her insistence that excavation proceed in narrow trenches denies us, when we use the Jericho reports, the confidence that her loci, and the pottery assemblages that go with them, represent understandable human activity patterns over coherently connected living areas. The individual layers, insufficiently exposed horizontally, simply cannot be interpreted credibly in terms of function. This further makes publication difficult, both to produce and to use."

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Gentorev
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5/17/2015 9:07:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/17/2015 11:55:03 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Kathleen Kenyon, has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jericho was destroyed some 40 years or thereabouts, after the expulsion of the Shepherd Kings around the time of the eruption of the island of Santorini or Thira.

LOL. Sorry, but she did no such thing.

"Moreover, her insistence that excavation proceed in narrow trenches denies us, when we use the Jericho reports, the confidence that her loci, and the pottery assemblages that go with them, represent understandable human activity patterns over coherently connected living areas. The individual layers, insufficiently exposed horizontally, simply cannot be interpreted credibly in terms of function. This further makes publication difficult, both to produce and to use."

http://en.wikipedia.org...

By the post-war period a revolution had occurred in archaeological methodology, and Albright accordingly asked Kathleen Kenyon, one of the most respected practitioners of the new archaeology, to excavate at Jericho once more. Kenyon dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952-1958. Kenyon traced the entire history of the city from the earliest Neolithic settlement. She did this by digging a narrow deep trench maintaining clean, squared off edges, rigorously examining the soil and recording its stratification, and thus building up a cross-section of the tell. When presented with an area that would require wider areas to be excavated - the floor plan of a house for example - she carefully dug in measured squares while leaving an untouched strip between each section to allow the stratification to remain visible. Kenyon reported that her work showed Garstang to have been wrong and the Germans right - Jericho had been deserted at the accepted Biblical date of the Conquest. Her result was confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction to 1562 BCE (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

Sorry mate, unless you can come up with another archaeologists report, which is supported by radiocarbon tests that prove otherwise, we will hold to Kathleen Kenyon's calculations, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BCE (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

Kathleen Kenyon, has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jericho was destroyed some 40 years or thereabouts, after the expulsion of the Shepherd Kings around the time of the eruption of the island of Santorini or Thira.
Harikrish
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5/17/2015 9:24:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Exodus never happened and the walls of Jericho did not come a-tumbling down. How archaeologists are shaking Israel to its biblical foundations.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com...

Israel Finkelstein, chairman of the Archaeology Department at Tel Aviv University, with archaeology historian Neil Asher Silberman, has just published a book called "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Text."

"The Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land [of Canaan] in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the twelve tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united kingdom of David and Solomon, described in the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom."

<< These statements correspond well with what was written by John Rembsburg:

"In the 12th chapter of Joshua is given a list of 31 kingdoms which were conquered by Israel. This was in the fifteenth century B.C. From this time forward they are represented as a mighty nation by Bible historians.

Rameses III overran Canaan and conquered it between 1280 and 1260 B.C. The Egyptian records give a list of all the tribes inhabiting it. The children of Israel-- the Hebrews-- were not there. In the 5th century B.C., when Herodotus, the father of History, was collecting materials for his immortal work, he traversed nearly every portion of Western Asia. He describes all its principal peoples and places; but the Jews and Jerusalem are of too little consequence to merit a line from his pen. Not until 332 B.C. do the Jews appear upon the stage of history, and then only as the submissive vassals of a Grecian king."

John E. Remsburg, The Bible (1901), pg. 263.

Jerusalem was essentially a cow town, not the glorious capital of an empire. These findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades.

The tales of the patriarchs -- Abraham, Isaac and Joseph among others -- were the first to go when biblical scholars found those passages rife with anachronisms and other inconsistencies. The story of Exodus, one of the most powerful epics of enslavement, courage and liberation in human history, also slipped from history to legend when archaeologists could no longer ignore the lack of corroborating contemporary Egyptian accounts and the absence of evidence of large encampments in the Sinai Peninsula ("the wilderness" where Moses brought the Israelites after leading them through the parted Red Sea).

Finkelstein is an iconoclast. He established his reputation in part by developing a theory about the settlement patterns of the nomadic shepherd tribes who would eventually become the Israelites, bolstering the growing consensus that they were originally indistinguishable from the rest of their neighbors, the Canaanites. This overturns a key element in the Bible: The Old Testament depicts the Israelites as superior outsiders -- descended from Abraham, a Mesopotamian immigrant -- entitled by divine order to invade Canaan and exterminate its unworthy, idolatrous inhabitants.

The famous battle of Jericho, with which the Israelites supposedly launched this campaign of conquest after wandering for decades in the desert, has been likewise debunked: The city of Jericho didn't exist at that time and had no walls to come tumbling down. These assertions are all pretty much accepted by mainstream archaeologists.

"Research is research, and strong societies can easily endure discoveries like this." By comparison with today's skeptical turmoil, the early years of the modern Israeli state were a honeymoon period for archaeology and the Bible, in which the science seemed to validate the historical passages of the Old Testament left and right. As Finkelstein and Silberman relate, midcentury archaeologists usually "took the historical narratives of the Bible at face value"; Israel's first archaeologists were often said to approach a dig with a spade in one hand and the Bible in the other. The Old Testament frequently served as the standard against which all other data were measured: If someone found majestic ruins, they dated them to Solomon's time; signs of a battle were quickly attributed to the conquest of Canaan. Eventually, though, as archaeological methods improved and biblical scholars analyzed the text itself for inconsistencies and anachronisms, the amount of the Bible regarded as historically verifiable eroded. The honeymoon was over.

Marcus says that Finkelstein is "difficult to dismiss because he's so much an insider in terms of his credentials and background. He's an archaeologist, not a theologian, and he is an Israeli. It's hard to say that someone who was born in Israel and intends to live the rest of his life there is anti-Israeli."
Amoranemix
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5/22/2015 4:33:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
@ Gentorev :
Can you provide sources (like links) for your claims ?

Gentorev 24 to DanneJeRusse
Sorry mate, unless you can come up with another archaeologists report, which is supported by radiocarbon tests that prove otherwise, we will hold to Kathleen Kenyon's calculations, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BCE (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.
The figure of 95% you are mentioning is probably the confidence interval of the radio carbon dating and not the certainty that the destruction of Jericho took place at the indicated time, even in the absence of other evidence. In addition, from what I read, archaeological evidence indicates a date more in accordance with the Exodus story in the Bible.

Even assuming your early date for the destruction of Jericho, you seem to have provided no reason to think that the Hyksos are the Israelites other than concordance of time and place. (I haven't reread your 'evidence' because of lack of references.) Can you (or someone else) provide evidence they are the same people ?
The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth.