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reality and perfect creator is contradictory.

steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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5/18/2015 7:37:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough.

Life is what we humans make it. Many try to fake it.
Some are born with brains and others are not.
There are some things in life we can control and others we cannot.
Such is life.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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5/18/2015 7:47:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough.

Playing devil's advocate, this sounds more like a subjective list of what YOU wouldn't do if you were in charge of creation.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/18/2015 10:43:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 7:47:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough.

Playing devil's advocate, this sounds more like a subjective list of what YOU wouldn't do if you were in charge of creation.

anyone who knows right from wrong would agree with this. if you dont know that a cruel malevolent sadistic god is bad then your not worth my time.
mindbender
Posts: 155
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5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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5/19/2015 12:04:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 10:43:44 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/18/2015 7:47:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough.

Playing devil's advocate, this sounds more like a subjective list of what YOU wouldn't do if you were in charge of creation.

anyone who knows right from wrong would agree with this.

Right and wrong are subjective. Why do you think your ideas of right and wrong are a universal standard?

if you dont know that a cruel malevolent sadistic god is bad then your not worth my time.

I'm just not sure what is cruel, malevolent or sadistic about some of the things you have listed. Take our omnivore status for example. Without the energy provided by eating meat (high in protein) we probably wouldn't have been able to evolve large brains which require a lot of energy to support. A purely vegetarian diet would not cut it in the wild.

Also, pain serves a very useful function. It allows you to recoil violently from something which may injure you (such as fire) thereby preventing permanent damage. Ongoing pain is useful so that we nurse the injury and allow a wound to heal properly. Pain can be a signal of over exertion, telling us to slow down and give the body time to recover.

As you can see, what you consider right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder.
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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5/19/2015 12:10:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?

What possible good is there in the creation of the mosquito?

(Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world's population lives in malaria-risk areas).
mindbender
Posts: 155
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5/19/2015 2:01:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 12:10:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?

What possible good is there in the creation of the mosquito?

(Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world's population lives in malaria-risk areas). : :

It's one way God gets rid of some of his people in his simulated universe.
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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5/19/2015 2:52:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Chuckle.

- Premise: If God exists, then he would have made the universe my way.
- Premise: The universe wasn't done my way.
- Conclusion: God doesn't exist.

Please go on :) .
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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5/19/2015 3:04:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 2:01:19 AM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/19/2015 12:10:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?

What possible good is there in the creation of the mosquito?

(Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world's population lives in malaria-risk areas). : :

It's one way God gets rid of some of his people in his simulated universe.

Hello BoG. You're back again?
mindbender
Posts: 155
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5/19/2015 10:24:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 3:04:50 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/19/2015 2:01:19 AM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/19/2015 12:10:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?

What possible good is there in the creation of the mosquito?

(Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world's population lives in malaria-risk areas). : :

It's one way God gets rid of some of his people in his simulated universe.

Hello BoG. You're back again? : :

BoG who? I don't know who you're talking about.
mindbender
Posts: 155
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5/19/2015 11:00:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 2:52:57 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
Chuckle.

- Premise: If God exists, then he would have made the universe my way.
- Premise: The universe wasn't done my way.
- Conclusion: God doesn't exist.

Please go on :) . : :

Your premises and conclusion could be incorrect. Start with the premise that the universe couldn't have come into existence on it's own power.

Premise: The power that formed the universe could exist.

Premise: The universe formed into an intelligent design.

Conclusion: That power came from an intelligent designer.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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5/19/2015 11:27:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves.

Why?

he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around.

Wouldn't the planet be overrun by animals?

he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful.

Why? Pain is a warning that something is being mistreated.

he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child.

So no free will?

if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness.

No free will? There would be no people whatsoever if any wrong action prevented your existence.

he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong.

Every person has a conscience. God had embedded a knowledge of right and wrong in you... that people choose to turn it off is their choice.

he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity.

Nonsense...

i could go on but this is quite enough.

Apparently.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/19/2015 3:28:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 11:27:20 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves.

Why?

because its not fair and only randomness or an evil god would do it

he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around.

Wouldn't the planet be overrun by animals? not if god is all powerful as you say he is he could shorten their life span and or make them unable to produce as much off spring or he could have made the planet big enough to hold all life till the end of time i could go on but your narrow thinking proves to me that you wouldnt understand even if i my logic is infallible which it is.

he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful.

Why? Pain is a warning that something is being mistreated.

yes pain is useful but not always. we shouldnt have to suffer torture because that kind of pain isnt helping us at all. we werent created perfectly or nearly perfect therefor a perfect god could not have created us

he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child.

So no free will? we could still have free will and he could stop us or prevent us from being able to do things like it says he does in the bible. he killed onan for pulling out but wont kill you for torturing an animal or child? doesnt make any sense.

if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness.

No free will? There would be no people whatsoever if any wrong action prevented your existence.

this is not a sensical response to the question raised as it has nothing to do with free will or our existence and only deals with whether or not bad people should be put with good people. why should we have to suffer because other people want to be evil or dont know right from wrong which would be his fault.

he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong.

Every person has a conscience. God had embedded a knowledge of right and wrong in you... that people choose to turn it off is their choice

first of all not everyone has a conscience and it has been proven that the conscience consists of vague reminisciences of precepts heard in early youth. thats not knowledge of right and wrong its believing what your told. not to mention everyones consciences contradicts everyone elses consciences so they cannot be right. in fact most of them have to be wrong because of the contradictions

he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity.

Nonsense...

i could go on but this is quite enough.

Apparently.
12_13
Posts: 1,364
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5/19/2015 4:31:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves...

Actually if we believe what the Bible tells, when God created, everything was good. There were no problems. However people didn"t like that perfect world but decided to reject God. And now we are in this state because of that choice. Luckily we can get back to that perfect state, if we receive what Jesus told. All evil and unpleasant things are results of choices that people have made.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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5/19/2015 4:48:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/18/2015 10:43:44 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/18/2015 7:47:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough.

Playing devil's advocate, this sounds more like a subjective list of what YOU wouldn't do if you were in charge of creation.

anyone who knows right from wrong would agree with this. if you dont know that a cruel malevolent sadistic god is bad then your not worth my time.

For your own benefit, I will caution you on the way you address and to whom you make such an address. It isn't wise to address your obvious intellectual superiors in a tone that denotes denigration. Just advice from an observer. Do with it what you will.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/19/2015 4:50:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 12:04:04 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:43:44 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/18/2015 7:47:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough.

Playing devil's advocate, this sounds more like a subjective list of what YOU wouldn't do if you were in charge of creation.

anyone who knows right from wrong would agree with this.

Right and wrong are subjective. Why do you think your ideas of right and wrong are a universal standard?

if you dont know that a cruel malevolent sadistic god is bad then your not worth my time.

I'm just not sure what is cruel, malevolent or sadistic about some of the things you have listed. Take our omnivore status for example. Without the energy provided by eating meat (high in protein) we probably wouldn't have been able to evolve large brains which require a lot of energy to support. A purely vegetarian diet would not cut it in the wild.

Also, pain serves a very useful function. It allows you to recoil violently from something which may injure you (such as fire) thereby preventing permanent damage. Ongoing pain is useful so that we nurse the injury and allow a wound to heal properly. Pain can be a signal of over exertion, telling us to slow down and give the body time to recover.

As you can see, what you consider right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder.

all of you have the same misunderstandings when it comes to this topic. without protein we wouldnt have big brains. but what comes with our big brains. nothing good except pleasure which is an addiction so i guess i actually cant call that a good thing. not to mention the people believe in a perfect all powerful god. with an all powerful god we could have got bigger brains another way that didnt involve pain suffering and misery. according to the bible we have big brains because god gave us big brains and we didnt evolve. so if your a christian you cant use the evolution defense. what is cruel sadistic and malevolent about making us feel great pain suffering and misery? im not going to dignify this question with a response.

yes pain is useful. but with an all powerful god we could had a substitute that would serve the same function and not make us miserable. he could have even given us pain with the ability to block the signal to the brain when it isnt helping us. when you are being tortured and there is no way to escape the pain isnt useful at all. if god created us the way we are he did not do it for a good reason unless its a punishment for something we did before we were born. but then why wouldnt we remember it so we would know why we are suffering? gosh you guys think so narrowly. you act as if gods will is bound by necessity which would mean he didnt have free will. if things had to be this way then god is bound by necessity and he does not have free will which is the low end of the spectrum while being all powerful is on the top end of the spectrum. you have contradictory beliefs my friend.

any other "problems" with my logic. ill show you one with yours. whatever your raised in you think is perfect. no matter how horrible a god is you think they are perfect. all gods contradict each other so they cannot all be perfect. infact only one can be perfect because of the many contradictions so all other gods that are believed to be perfect are not. you think life is perfect and not flawed in the ways i say its flawed. any mind not warped by dogma can see that life as is on earth is a horrible thing that should have never happened.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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5/19/2015 4:55:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 4:31:35 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves...

Actually if we believe what the Bible tells, when God created, everything was good. There were no problems. However people didn"t like that perfect world but decided to reject God. And now we are in this state because of that choice. Luckily we can get back to that perfect state, if we receive what Jesus told. All evil and unpleasant things are results of choices that people have made.

So, we're being punished for the actions of those that lived thousands of years before us, whose choices were made without our consent or knowledge, and in which we had no contribution? That's love? That's perfections? That's justice? Take your biblical god and shove it.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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5/19/2015 4:57:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 2:01:19 AM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/19/2015 12:10:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?

What possible good is there in the creation of the mosquito?

(Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world's population lives in malaria-risk areas). : :

It's one way God gets rid of some of his people in his simulated universe.

So God is outside the simulated universe?
mindbender
Posts: 155
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5/19/2015 5:14:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 4:57:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/19/2015 2:01:19 AM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/19/2015 12:10:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?

What possible good is there in the creation of the mosquito?

(Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world's population lives in malaria-risk areas). : :

It's one way God gets rid of some of his people in his simulated universe.

So God is outside the simulated universe? : :

After viewing several videos about the possibility of us living in a simulated universe, I doubt that God is living inside his simulation.

Computer programmers don't live in the simulations they create, except for their thoughts where their creation began.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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5/19/2015 5:24:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 5:14:26 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/19/2015 4:57:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/19/2015 2:01:19 AM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/19/2015 12:10:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?

What possible good is there in the creation of the mosquito?

(Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world's population lives in malaria-risk areas). : :

It's one way God gets rid of some of his people in his simulated universe.

So God is outside the simulated universe? : :

After viewing several videos about the possibility of us living in a simulated universe, I doubt that God is living inside his simulation.

Computer programmers don't live in the simulations they create, except for their thoughts where their creation began.

Point taken. God is outside his simulated universe.

Computer programmers do not run the simulation in his thoughts. Even here the programmed simulation is coded into a program and the programmer is outside his simulation.
mindbender
Posts: 155
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5/19/2015 8:45:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 5:24:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/19/2015 5:14:26 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/19/2015 4:57:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 5/19/2015 2:01:19 AM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/19/2015 12:10:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:56:03 PM, mindbender wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough. : :

The God I believe in created everything as it says in the biblical prophecies. Have you ever considered that he might have created all these bad things for a reason you don't understand?

What possible good is there in the creation of the mosquito?

(Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world's population lives in malaria-risk areas). : :

It's one way God gets rid of some of his people in his simulated universe.

So God is outside the simulated universe? : :

After viewing several videos about the possibility of us living in a simulated universe, I doubt that God is living inside his simulation.

Computer programmers don't live in the simulations they create, except for their thoughts where their creation began.

Point taken. God is outside his simulated universe.

Computer programmers do not run the simulation in his thoughts. Even here the programmed simulation is coded into a program and the programmer is outside his simulation. : :

Do you see the possibility of us living in a simulated universe?
dee-em
Posts: 6,476
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5/20/2015 2:48:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 4:50:57 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/19/2015 12:04:04 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 10:43:44 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/18/2015 7:47:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 5/18/2015 6:03:17 PM, steffon66 wrote:
here is a list of things a perfect creator wouldnt do. he wouldnt make some so smart and motivated that they can build rockets while making some so mentally ill and unmotivated that they cant take care of themselves. he wouldnt make carnivores or whatever we are that have to kill animals and put them in extreme pain to survive when he could have made all plant eaters with enough vegetation to go around. he wouldnt create your brain and nerves to where you would have to feel great pain with nothing blocking the pain when it isnt useful. he wouldnt allow you to be a slave or abused as a child. if he knows the future and whether or not you would be good or bad he wouldnt put good people with bad people making us suffer from you believers evil that you call righteousness. he wouldnt have cursed some of us to be here while being able to feel pain without you at least knowing right from wrong. he wouldnt have set things up to where we would not be smart enough to do anything but cause a bunch of calamity. i could go on but this is quite enough.

Playing devil's advocate, this sounds more like a subjective list of what YOU wouldn't do if you were in charge of creation.

anyone who knows right from wrong would agree with this.

Right and wrong are subjective. Why do you think your ideas of right and wrong are a universal standard?

if you dont know that a cruel malevolent sadistic god is bad then your not worth my time.

I'm just not sure what is cruel, malevolent or sadistic about some of the things you have listed. Take our omnivore status for example. Without the energy provided by eating meat (high in protein) we probably wouldn't have been able to evolve large brains which require a lot of energy to support. A purely vegetarian diet would not cut it in the wild.

Also, pain serves a very useful function. It allows you to recoil violently from something which may injure you (such as fire) thereby preventing permanent damage. Ongoing pain is useful so that we nurse the injury and allow a wound to heal properly. Pain can be a signal of over exertion, telling us to slow down and give the body time to recover.

As you can see, what you consider right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder.

all of you have the same misunderstandings when it comes to this topic. without protein we wouldnt have big brains. but what comes with our big brains. nothing good except pleasure which is an addiction so i guess i actually cant call that a good thing. not to mention the people believe in a perfect all powerful god. with an all powerful god we could have got bigger brains another way that didnt involve pain suffering and misery. according to the bible we have big brains because god gave us big brains and we didnt evolve. so if your a christian you cant use the evolution defense. what is cruel sadistic and malevolent about making us feel great pain suffering and misery? im not going to dignify this question with a response.

I'm an atheist, which you could have easily discovered by clicking on my profile. As I said, I was playing devil's advocate. Perhaps you missed that? I actually agree with your basic premise. I just think your examples were poorly chosen. They're rather subjective.

yes pain is useful. but with an all powerful god we could had a substitute that would serve the same function and not make us miserable. he could have even given us pain with the ability to block the signal to the brain when it isnt helping us.

Yes, I agree that would have been a good design feature. It's a reasonable argument against us being designed. There are better ones, but you have a point.

when you are being tortured and there is no way to escape the pain isnt useful at all.

I haven't been tortured recently (or ever, lol) but I could see how a temporary pain cut-off could be useful.

If god created us the way we are he did not do it for a good reason unless its a punishment for something we did before we were born. but then why wouldnt we remember it so we would know why we are suffering? gosh you guys think so narrowly. you act as if gods will is bound by necessity which would mean he didnt have free will. if things had to be this way then god is bound by necessity and he does not have free will which is the low end of the spectrum while being all powerful is on the top end of the spectrum. you have contradictory beliefs my friend.

Since I'm an atheist, the above is not relevant to me.

any other "problems" with my logic. ill show you one with yours. whatever your raised in you think is perfect. no matter how horrible a god is you think they are perfect. all gods contradict each other so they cannot all be perfect. infact only one can be perfect because of the many contradictions so all other gods that are believed to be perfect are not. you think life is perfect and not flawed in the ways i say its flawed. any mind not warped by dogma can see that life as is on earth is a horrible thing that should have never happened.

I'm not sure where you came up with the above being "my logic". I have never once stated that I have a belief in God. You seem so ready to lash out at theists that you see them even when they aren't there. Try a little bit of balance and actually read what is being written before jumping to conclusions.
12_13
Posts: 1,364
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5/20/2015 5:05:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/19/2015 4:55:09 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
So, we're being punished for the actions of those that lived thousands of years before us, whose choices were made without our consent or knowledge, and in which we had no contribution? That's love? That's perfections? That's justice?

I think it is love that God has given us this chance. And
I really don"t think this life is a punishment.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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5/21/2015 9:58:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2015 5:05:26 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 5/19/2015 4:55:09 PM, ThinkFirst wrote:
So, we're being punished for the actions of those that lived thousands of years before us, whose choices were made without our consent or knowledge, and in which we had no contribution? That's love? That's perfections? That's justice?

I think it is love that God has given us this chance. And
I really don"t think this life is a punishment.

It's a good thing that what you "think" does not make the god of the bible a reality. I would HATE existing in a world where that vile creature was "lord of all." I'm glad that the bible is a load of cr@p. One day, humanity will either shake off all deities and come together as a species, or humanity will implode. I hope it's the former, but believers are too pig-headed.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
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"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein