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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable. I acknowledge that there are a few variables in play here. 1. our natural survival instinct. 2. afterlife or lack thereof considerations 3. ego 4. fill in the blank.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days. When i was in high school I read the Apologia and it stuck with me forever. Although i now read it and see it some how less relevant to my life; it sort of provided a pattern of acceptance of death. I have lived through the death of my father when i was 26, the deaths of my grand parents, and a few close friends. Although their presence is greatly missed, the actual death of these people is just part of what we have to deal with.

Don't misunderstand me, i don't care for the process of dying at all. I don't welcome pain, nor do I wish to lose my dignity as a human being. I do believe in suicide, and i catch a lot of grief from people, so i generally don't state that fact. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 10:33:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable. I acknowledge that there are a few variables in play here. 1. our natural survival instinct. 2. afterlife or lack thereof considerations 3. ego 4. fill in the blank.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days. When i was in high school I read the Apologia and it stuck with me forever. Although i now read it and see it some how less relevant to my life; it sort of provided a pattern of acceptance of death. I have lived through the death of my father when i was 26, the deaths of my grand parents, and a few close friends. Although their presence is greatly missed, the actual death of these people is just part of what we have to deal with.

Don't misunderstand me, i don't care for the process of dying at all. I don't welcome pain, nor do I wish to lose my dignity as a human being. I do believe in suicide, and i catch a lot of grief from people, so i generally don't state that fact. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

I've never feared death and instead am curious about it. I have also watched many of my family and friends die, just last week my cousin was killed in Iraq. But through these deaths you are able to realize that even though you are dead, the ones around you keep you living. I know that when I pass, my family and friends who do care for me will continue to act in my memory. The real problem is to live a life that you have no regrets when you are forced to leave it.

But many fear the unknown. Those who read the ending of a book before the beginning. Those who want to know the ending of the movie while watching it. Those who don't face their own mortality and live in a dream of "It's not going to happen for awhile! Why think about it now?" Those who think they are missing a key part in their lives, like spirituality or companionship. Those who never ask questions, fearing the answers. These people will see death as a painful end, wrought with suffering and sadness.

But why? To be born is a miracle, and to die is...painful? No. Death goes beyond being necessary. It's another part of our lives; one just as important as the beginning. Why fear it? It's coming at one point and to live avoiding it, is the same as living with regrets. You want knowledge right? You want to strive for the truth and understanding. You want acceptance of harsh truths and the end of ignorance. But a core part of your life, you are denying. Think of a movie...isn't the end just as powerful as the beginning?

Death is about acceptance. About realizing everyone's mortality and living with the knowledge. We are the only species that contemplates our own end; that makes us stronger. Don't make it your weakness.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/8/2010 10:41:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
think about it- death is the loss of EVERYTHING important to you... even your own self.. though it may be inevitable, i think its perfectly rational to fear your own dissolution. of course, if i am right it won't *be* like anything so its not like i would suffer.... but still to lose everything i love, every possibility, hope, dream, ideal.... in a second, never to be recovered- it sounds unpleasant.

even given that though, i am more afraid of actually dying than of being dead. in the process i will not only have to suffer terribly (presumably) but also have the presence of mind to realize that soon i will cease to exist. obviously once i'm dead none of that will matter....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/8/2010 10:43:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:33:46 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
I've never feared death and instead am curious about it. I have also watched many of my family and friends die, just last week my cousin was killed in Iraq. But through these deaths you are able to realize that even though you are dead, the ones around you keep you living. I know that when I pass, my family and friends who do care for me will continue to act in my memory. The real problem is to live a life that you have no regrets when you are forced to leave it.

But many fear the unknown. Those who read the ending of a book before the beginning. Those who want to know the ending of the movie while watching it. Those who don't face their own mortality and live in a dream of "It's not going to happen for awhile! Why think about it now?" Those who think they are missing a key part in their lives, like spirituality or companionship. Those who never ask questions, fearing the answers. These people will see death as a painful end, wrought with suffering and sadness.

But why? To be born is a miracle, and to die is...painful? No. Death goes beyond being necessary. It's another part of our lives; one just as important as the beginning. Why fear it? It's coming at one point and to live avoiding it, is the same as living with regrets. You want knowledge right? You want to strive for the truth and understanding. You want acceptance of harsh truths and the end of ignorance. But a core part of your life, you are denying. Think of a movie...isn't the end just as powerful as the beginning?

Death is about acceptance. About realizing everyone's mortality and living with the knowledge. We are the only species that contemplates our own end; that makes us stronger. Don't make it your weakness.

Nice post. I agree with all of it, and especially the regret thing. My father's last words were "If i could do it all differently, i would" - terrible way to die, and a great lesson for a 26 year old who was blowing his life away.
whatledge
Posts: 210
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8/8/2010 10:45:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable. I acknowledge that there are a few variables in play here. 1. our natural survival instinct. 2. afterlife or lack thereof considerations 3. ego 4. fill in the blank.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days. When i was in high school I read the Apologia and it stuck with me forever. Although i now read it and see it some how less relevant to my life; it sort of provided a pattern of acceptance of death. I have lived through the death of my father when i was 26, the deaths of my grand parents, and a few close friends. Although their presence is greatly missed, the actual death of these people is just part of what we have to deal with.

Don't misunderstand me, i don't care for the process of dying at all. I don't welcome pain, nor do I wish to lose my dignity as a human being. I do believe in suicide, and i catch a lot of grief from people, so i generally don't state that fact. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

So whatever is normal is irrational to fear?
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/8/2010 10:48:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:45:21 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable. I acknowledge that there are a few variables in play here. 1. our natural survival instinct. 2. afterlife or lack thereof considerations 3. ego 4. fill in the blank.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days. When i was in high school I read the Apologia and it stuck with me forever. Although i now read it and see it some how less relevant to my life; it sort of provided a pattern of acceptance of death. I have lived through the death of my father when i was 26, the deaths of my grand parents, and a few close friends. Although their presence is greatly missed, the actual death of these people is just part of what we have to deal with.

Don't misunderstand me, i don't care for the process of dying at all. I don't welcome pain, nor do I wish to lose my dignity as a human being. I do believe in suicide, and i catch a lot of grief from people, so i generally don't state that fact. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

So whatever is normal is irrational to fear?

Whatever is completely inevitable without question, yes it is. I understand fearing the process of dying and pain, but our lack of existence in life?
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 10:49:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:43:47 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:33:46 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
I've never feared death and instead am curious about it. I have also watched many of my family and friends die, just last week my cousin was killed in Iraq. But through these deaths you are able to realize that even though you are dead, the ones around you keep you living. I know that when I pass, my family and friends who do care for me will continue to act in my memory. The real problem is to live a life that you have no regrets when you are forced to leave it.

But many fear the unknown. Those who read the ending of a book before the beginning. Those who want to know the ending of the movie while watching it. Those who don't face their own mortality and live in a dream of "It's not going to happen for awhile! Why think about it now?" Those who think they are missing a key part in their lives, like spirituality or companionship. Those who never ask questions, fearing the answers. These people will see death as a painful end, wrought with suffering and sadness.

But why? To be born is a miracle, and to die is...painful? No. Death goes beyond being necessary. It's another part of our lives; one just as important as the beginning. Why fear it? It's coming at one point and to live avoiding it, is the same as living with regrets. You want knowledge right? You want to strive for the truth and understanding. You want acceptance of harsh truths and the end of ignorance. But a core part of your life, you are denying. Think of a movie...isn't the end just as powerful as the beginning?

Death is about acceptance. About realizing everyone's mortality and living with the knowledge. We are the only species that contemplates our own end; that makes us stronger. Don't make it your weakness.

Nice post. I agree with all of it, and especially the regret thing. My father's last words were "If i could do it all differently, i would" - terrible way to die, and a great lesson for a 26 year old who was blowing his life away.

Yeah, that would snap you back to reality... My cousin joined the Marines to earn his father's respect. And when his body was delivered to his father's house, he said, "He's even worthless when he's dead." That was when I realized that what survives death is people's opinions, and I want to live with no regrets. That way when I die, anyone can judge my life and I'll be 100% happy with it.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/8/2010 10:53:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable.

I have given just that very issue some consideration myself actually. You are right, my phobia of death is not rational.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
whatledge
Posts: 210
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8/8/2010 10:55:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:48:31 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:45:21 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable. I acknowledge that there are a few variables in play here. 1. our natural survival instinct. 2. afterlife or lack thereof considerations 3. ego 4. fill in the blank.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days. When i was in high school I read the Apologia and it stuck with me forever. Although i now read it and see it some how less relevant to my life; it sort of provided a pattern of acceptance of death. I have lived through the death of my father when i was 26, the deaths of my grand parents, and a few close friends. Although their presence is greatly missed, the actual death of these people is just part of what we have to deal with.

Don't misunderstand me, i don't care for the process of dying at all. I don't welcome pain, nor do I wish to lose my dignity as a human being. I do believe in suicide, and i catch a lot of grief from people, so i generally don't state that fact. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

So whatever is normal is irrational to fear?

Whatever is completely inevitable without question, yes it is. I understand fearing the process of dying and pain, but our lack of existence in life?

Matter is never destroyed, so I will continue to exist. However, my identity and conciousness will be lost. Like Belle said above, wouldn't you fear having everything you have taken away from you? The things you treasured in life, all gone? Is that irrational to fear?
badger
Posts: 11,793
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8/8/2010 10:56:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
i've never really feared death. i haven't ever even given it much thought... and i've nearly died at least ten times i'd say. let me waste another bit of my life first and i'll get back to you.
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/8/2010 10:56:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:49:05 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:43:47 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:33:46 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
I've never feared death and instead am curious about it. I have also watched many of my family and friends die, just last week my cousin was killed in Iraq. But through these deaths you are able to realize that even though you are dead, the ones around you keep you living. I know that when I pass, my family and friends who do care for me will continue to act in my memory. The real problem is to live a life that you have no regrets when you are forced to leave it.

But many fear the unknown. Those who read the ending of a book before the beginning. Those who want to know the ending of the movie while watching it. Those who don't face their own mortality and live in a dream of "It's not going to happen for awhile! Why think about it now?" Those who think they are missing a key part in their lives, like spirituality or companionship. Those who never ask questions, fearing the answers. These people will see death as a painful end, wrought with suffering and sadness.

But why? To be born is a miracle, and to die is...painful? No. Death goes beyond being necessary. It's another part of our lives; one just as important as the beginning. Why fear it? It's coming at one point and to live avoiding it, is the same as living with regrets. You want knowledge right? You want to strive for the truth and understanding. You want acceptance of harsh truths and the end of ignorance. But a core part of your life, you are denying. Think of a movie...isn't the end just as powerful as the beginning?

Death is about acceptance. About realizing everyone's mortality and living with the knowledge. We are the only species that contemplates our own end; that makes us stronger. Don't make it your weakness.

Nice post. I agree with all of it, and especially the regret thing. My father's last words were "If i could do it all differently, i would" - terrible way to die, and a great lesson for a 26 year old who was blowing his life away.

Yeah, that would snap you back to reality... My cousin joined the Marines to earn his father's respect. And when his body was delivered to his father's house, he said, "He's even worthless when he's dead." That was when I realized that what survives death is people's opinions, and I want to live with no regrets. That way when I die, anyone can judge my life and I'll be 100% happy with it.

What a shi$$y thing to say. You can actually leave the world, maybe just the tiniest part of it, a little bit better had you not existed. Purpose without pompous helps.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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8/8/2010 10:56:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
I do believe in suicide. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

I agree wholeheartedly. I can't imagine why a righteous person would fear coming into the presence of Allah. I eagerly await my 70 virgins.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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8/8/2010 10:58:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
I do believe in suicide. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

I agree wholeheartedly. I can't imagine why a righteous person would fear coming into the presence of Allah. I eagerly await my 70 virgins.

Fixed.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 11:01:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:58:12 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
I do believe in suicide. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

I agree wholeheartedly. I can't imagine why a righteous person would fear coming into the presence of Allah. I eagerly await my 70 virgins.

Fixed.

Isn't it 72 virgins?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 11:10:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:55:02 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:48:31 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:45:21 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable. I acknowledge that there are a few variables in play here. 1. our natural survival instinct. 2. afterlife or lack thereof considerations 3. ego 4. fill in the blank.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days. When i was in high school I read the Apologia and it stuck with me forever. Although i now read it and see it some how less relevant to my life; it sort of provided a pattern of acceptance of death. I have lived through the death of my father when i was 26, the deaths of my grand parents, and a few close friends. Although their presence is greatly missed, the actual death of these people is just part of what we have to deal with.

Don't misunderstand me, i don't care for the process of dying at all. I don't welcome pain, nor do I wish to lose my dignity as a human being. I do believe in suicide, and i catch a lot of grief from people, so i generally don't state that fact. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

So whatever is normal is irrational to fear?

Whatever is completely inevitable without question, yes it is. I understand fearing the process of dying and pain, but our lack of existence in life?

Matter is never destroyed, so I will continue to exist. However, my identity and conciousness will be lost. Like Belle said above, wouldn't you fear having everything you have taken away from you? The things you treasured in life, all gone? Is that irrational to fear?

No. But those who fear losing everything they have during life, are missing a very important point. Yes, you will lose your treasured items. You will never see the face of your lover again. You won't talk to a close friend or family member ever again. And at the end of your time, you will face all of this. And that's when you can die scared or you can die in peace. You can die with the realization that those who died while you were alive, never were forgotten. They were cared about the same as in life as they were in death, right? And you can realize that the items you cherished will be passed onto family members, so they can live in your memory. And that your hopes, aspirations and wishes are not lost forever, because those close to you share in them. They know what you attained in life and what you've always wanted.

The point is, there are those around you who live after you cease. You are not completely gone... You live in the memories of people now. I may sound like a crappy new-age spirituality CD but it's true. Sadly, many people cannot realize the simplicity of death until they have faced it. And not someone else's death, but their own. I was able to accept death only after facing my own mortality. Now it's up to other people to gain acceptance, right? Wouldn't you rather die with a smile?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/8/2010 11:14:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't really fear death. Worst case scenario I burn in hellfire for not believing in fairytales. Best case scenario I get to go to heaven for not believing in fairytales. Most probable scenario is that I feel nothing, which is a total state of nothingness, and so I don't really fear that. A scenario I like is a conciousness spark like a dream.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
whatledge
Posts: 210
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8/8/2010 11:14:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 11:10:50 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:55:02 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:48:31 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:45:21 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable. I acknowledge that there are a few variables in play here. 1. our natural survival instinct. 2. afterlife or lack thereof considerations 3. ego 4. fill in the blank.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days. When i was in high school I read the Apologia and it stuck with me forever. Although i now read it and see it some how less relevant to my life; it sort of provided a pattern of acceptance of death. I have lived through the death of my father when i was 26, the deaths of my grand parents, and a few close friends. Although their presence is greatly missed, the actual death of these people is just part of what we have to deal with.

Don't misunderstand me, i don't care for the process of dying at all. I don't welcome pain, nor do I wish to lose my dignity as a human being. I do believe in suicide, and i catch a lot of grief from people, so i generally don't state that fact. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

So whatever is normal is irrational to fear?

Whatever is completely inevitable without question, yes it is. I understand fearing the process of dying and pain, but our lack of existence in life?

Matter is never destroyed, so I will continue to exist. However, my identity and conciousness will be lost. Like Belle said above, wouldn't you fear having everything you have taken away from you? The things you treasured in life, all gone? Is that irrational to fear?

No. But those who fear losing everything they have during life, are missing a very important point. Yes, you will lose your treasured items. You will never see the face of your lover again. You won't talk to a close friend or family member ever again. And at the end of your time, you will face all of this. And that's when you can die scared or you can die in peace. You can die with the realization that those who died while you were alive, never were forgotten. They were cared about the same as in life as they were in death, right? And you can realize that the items you cherished will be passed onto family members, so they can live in your memory. And that your hopes, aspirations and wishes are not lost forever, because those close to you share in them. They know what you attained in life and what you've always wanted.

The point is, there are those around you who live after you cease. You are not completely gone... You live in the memories of people now. I may sound like a crappy new-age spirituality CD but it's true. Sadly, many people cannot realize the simplicity of death until they have faced it. And not someone else's death, but their own. I was able to accept death only after facing my own mortality. Now it's up to other people to gain acceptance, right? Wouldn't you rather die with a smile?

I would rather not die at all, if I had the choice. But yes, I see your point.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 11:16:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 11:14:54 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 11:10:50 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:55:02 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:48:31 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:45:21 AM, whatledge wrote:
At 8/8/2010 10:09:24 AM, innomen wrote:
Or the fear of death. I have read a few people here post that they are afraid of dying, I think Fredo and C_N were a couple if i remember correctly. I know that it's normal to fear death, and even healthy to organize your life to avoid it early. However, as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable. I acknowledge that there are a few variables in play here. 1. our natural survival instinct. 2. afterlife or lack thereof considerations 3. ego 4. fill in the blank.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days. When i was in high school I read the Apologia and it stuck with me forever. Although i now read it and see it some how less relevant to my life; it sort of provided a pattern of acceptance of death. I have lived through the death of my father when i was 26, the deaths of my grand parents, and a few close friends. Although their presence is greatly missed, the actual death of these people is just part of what we have to deal with.

Don't misunderstand me, i don't care for the process of dying at all. I don't welcome pain, nor do I wish to lose my dignity as a human being. I do believe in suicide, and i catch a lot of grief from people, so i generally don't state that fact. However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.

So whatever is normal is irrational to fear?

Whatever is completely inevitable without question, yes it is. I understand fearing the process of dying and pain, but our lack of existence in life?

Matter is never destroyed, so I will continue to exist. However, my identity and conciousness will be lost. Like Belle said above, wouldn't you fear having everything you have taken away from you? The things you treasured in life, all gone? Is that irrational to fear?

No. But those who fear losing everything they have during life, are missing a very important point. Yes, you will lose your treasured items. You will never see the face of your lover again. You won't talk to a close friend or family member ever again. And at the end of your time, you will face all of this. And that's when you can die scared or you can die in peace. You can die with the realization that those who died while you were alive, never were forgotten. They were cared about the same as in life as they were in death, right? And you can realize that the items you cherished will be passed onto family members, so they can live in your memory. And that your hopes, aspirations and wishes are not lost forever, because those close to you share in them. They know what you attained in life and what you've always wanted.

The point is, there are those around you who live after you cease. You are not completely gone... You live in the memories of people now. I may sound like a crappy new-age spirituality CD but it's true. Sadly, many people cannot realize the simplicity of death until they have faced it. And not someone else's death, but their own. I was able to accept death only after facing my own mortality. Now it's up to other people to gain acceptance, right? Wouldn't you rather die with a smile?

I would rather not die at all, if I had the choice. But yes, I see your point.

I would rather die. To live forever, in the face of people's ignorance and condemnations, would surely kill me anyways.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/8/2010 11:24:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:41:06 AM, belle wrote:
think about it- death is the loss of EVERYTHING important to you... even your own self.. though it may be inevitable, i think its perfectly rational to fear your own dissolution. of course, if i am right it won't *be* like anything so its not like i would suffer.... but still to lose everything i love, every possibility, hope, dream, ideal.... in a second, never to be recovered- it sounds unpleasant.

even given that though, i am more afraid of actually dying than of being dead. in the process i will not only have to suffer terribly (presumably) but also have the presence of mind to realize that soon i will cease to exist. obviously once i'm dead none of that will matter....

I'm trying to put myself in my agnostic shoes, and why i didn't fear it then either. If you live your life with the full acceptance that it is finite there is no fear. I never think about things that i will lose, i am not even sure i understand that. It's more like a perfectly natural conclusion; just the end of the journey, and if life is lived appropriately as Anne had explained the whole thing is perfectly acceptable. As you get older and you see others die around you it even becomes more rational and acceptable. There can be as much purpose in death as there is in life.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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8/8/2010 11:24:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I agree with the original post. I have never feared death, but I do not look forward to the prospect of dying. I actually wrote an essay once critiquing Socrates' and Epicurus' arguments that death should not be feared and, although I disagree with their arguments, I agree with their conclusion (that death should not be feared). It all depends on a person's beliefs though. If one believes in an afterlife, then they may have considerable reason to fear life after death.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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8/8/2010 11:37:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. "

-- Mark Twain.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
badger
Posts: 11,793
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8/8/2010 12:28:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 11:37:41 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. "

-- Mark Twain.

is this for opposite day or what?
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/8/2010 2:03:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
as a reasoning and rational person, why would there be so much fear around something that is absolutely inevitable. The fact that we all will die is not debatable.:

I think a few variables are at play. I think people's greatest fear is dying in an extremely painful way, but in a general way, life is all we know. The prospect that this interaction we are having right now will one day end, presumably never to resume, is in some regards frightening.

I think I have a realistic view of death, which is that I'm naturally uneasy about it, but certainly accepting of its inevitability.

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days.:

The older you get, the more your own mortality becomes apparent. Kids and teens tend to think they're bulletproof, and death seems so very far away for them.

However, actual death is normal, and it is to me irrational to fear it.:

I don't think it is necessarily irrational to have a fear of the unknown. It's one thing to be consumed with thoughts of death so much that it impacts your life (after all, you're not really living your life), but it's another thing to live recklessly simply because it is an inevitability.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/8/2010 2:06:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There's more things to fear with an afterlife.

You have to worry about whether you end up in heaven, purgatory, or hell. If you are reincarnated, you have to worry about which planet you would be reincarnated on, what you're reincarnated as, and who.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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8/8/2010 2:07:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
My statements on death can be summarized by the following
Job 19:25-26
25For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

When we die we simply pass into another room for a time being, but we will all be resurrected at the latter day death is nothing more than a time out, and honestly I look forward to my in part so I can be freed from some of the cares of this world
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 2:07:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 2:03:31 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days.:

The older you get, the more your own mortality becomes apparent. Kids and teens tend to think they're bulletproof, and death seems so very far away for them.

I disagree with this. I've never thought of myself as bulletproof and death could easily be today just as it could be in fifty years.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/8/2010 2:09:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 2:07:58 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 2:03:31 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days.:

The older you get, the more your own mortality becomes apparent. Kids and teens tend to think they're bulletproof, and death seems so very far away for them.

I disagree with this. I've never thought of myself as bulletproof and death could easily be today just as it could be in fifty years.

I think generally speaking he is accurate.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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8/8/2010 2:31:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 2:07:58 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 2:03:31 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days.:

The older you get, the more your own mortality becomes apparent. Kids and teens tend to think they're bulletproof, and death seems so very far away for them.

I disagree with this. I've never thought of myself as bulletproof and death could easily be today just as it could be in fifty years.

whatever happened to thinking you were invincible and being hit by a bus?
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annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 2:36:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 2:31:54 PM, badger wrote:
At 8/8/2010 2:07:58 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/8/2010 2:03:31 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

I never had a great fear of death even during my agnostic days.:

The older you get, the more your own mortality becomes apparent. Kids and teens tend to think they're bulletproof, and death seems so very far away for them.

I disagree with this. I've never thought of myself as bulletproof and death could easily be today just as it could be in fifty years.

whatever happened to thinking you were invincible and being hit by a bus?

I wasn't on medication then.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.