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Christ: The Rock of True Church, Not Peter

Bendido
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5/20/2015 11:16:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Christ: The Rock of True Church, Not Peter

http://www.controversyextraordinary.com...

Let us open our Bibles and consider again Matthew 16:18:

MATTHEW 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Baseline data here is that the words spoken by Christ comes from the Father.

JOHN 12:49

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

When in Matthew 16:18 Christ said, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" plus the fact that the words spoken by Christ comes from the Father, it must be understood that the real person speaking in the verse is the Father through the mouth of Christ.

"I say unto" involves a first person; "Thou art Peter," a second person, and "And upon this rock" refers to a third person. It is obvious that if Peter is the rock the speaker should have said, "Upon you I will build my church."

"Upon this rock" is coherent with the declaration of Peter, "thou art the Christ."

Notice the use of the demonstrative pronoun, "this rock." "Upon this rock" clearly refers to Upon Christ which rock Jesus is. In all senses of grammar, common understanding, and logic, Peter cannot be the rock, the foundation of the true church. Never could a corruptible human being be! But notice the belief of the Roman Catholic Church as contained in their Modern Catholic Dictionary describing Peter as their first Pope, referring to him as "the rock."

Grammatically speaking, if Peter were the rock, the speaker should have said, "and I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon you I will build my church."

Why did not Christ say, "I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon me I will build my church?" Logical, because He is not the speaker. The real speaker is the Father that is the first person. The second person is Peter, and the third person is the rock, which is Christ, which he (Peter) acknowledged as the "Son of the living God."

Logically speaking, if Peter were the rock, the speaker should have said, "and I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon you I will build my church."

Using common sense to understand this phrase, "and I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church," we see that somebody is talking to Peter, represented by X. X talks to Peter.

"And upon this rock" is Y, the rock.

Speaker X mentioning Y to Peter means X is not Peter.

Peter is not Y and Y is not X. Common sense tells us that Peter is the clue to knowing who is Y and who is X.

X, the speaker, is the Father. X is the first person, "I."

Meanwhile, Peter is the second person, "unto thee" and is different from "and upon this rock," a third person (Y).

I, (X) will build my church upon Y (the rock). But Y is not Peter. Y is not the rock.

Why could not the rock be Peter? To be sure, we must look for the exact person represented by Y that is the rock.

Y was revealed by X to Peter as in, "flesh and blood did not reveal this unto you but my Father (X) in heaven." What was revealed this time was, "thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

This secret revealed by the Father (X) to Peter was that Christ, the Son of the living God, is the rock upon which "I (X, the Father) will build my church." Take note that even Peter understood this. Why shouldn"t the Roman Catholic Church?

Let us for the meantime set aside the logical, the grammatical, and the sensical analysis of the verse. Let us now be biblical!

Before taking the human form, the coming of the Son of God was foretold by the Father that a prophet "I will raise from among your brethren like unto thee (Moses), and I will put my words into His mouth".

DEUTERONOMY 18:18

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

This prophet whom God will raise from the Israelites is the Lord Jesus Christ.

THE ACTS 3:22, 20

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

When preaching in the flesh, in the form of a man, the Son said, "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me," exactly in coherence with the prophecy, "I will put my words into his mouth."

JOHN 7:16

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

The rightful and biblical builder of the true church is the Father.

HEBREWS 3:4

For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

The words uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ coming out of His mouth was, "I say unto thee, thou art Peter and upon this rock, "I will build my church," is genuinely the words of the Father, the builder of everything that exists.

And who is the foundation intended by the builder, the Father, to be the foundation of the true church?

I CORINTHIANS 3:11

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

It is Christ " and not a mere human being like Peter! The builder, the Father, laid the foundation of everything that He created. He laid the foundation of the earth and the universe!

JOB 38:4

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

HEBREWS 11:3

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The Father who laid the foundation of the universe and of the earth is undoubtedly the same person who laid the foundation of the true church, that is Christ. That church to be built upon the foundation Christ is composed of the apostles (including Peter), the prophets, teachers, and the like.

I CORINTHIANS 12:28

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

As it is impossible for Peter to be the foundation, obviously because he is part of those that were built upon Christ, it is equally impossible for the Roman Catholic Church to be the church built by the Father! That is biblically speaking!

EPHESIANS 2:20

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Note in the verse above that the Apostles and the Prophets were built upon the foundation. Peter is one of the apostles built upon the foundation. Logically, grammatically, biblically, and sensibly speaking, Peter is not the rock, nor the foundation of the true church! But the Roman Catholic Church in her misinterpretation because of her ignorance about the Scriptures refuses to accept the foundation rock of the true church - Christ! The builder of the Catholic Church is not the Father!

THE ACTS 4:11-12 (RSV)

11 This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner.

12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

The insistence of the Catholic Church that Peter is the foundation rock of their church is their utter rejection of the foundation laid by God himself " Christ. A human being like Peter cannot be the foundation of truth, for all men are prone to lie. How can somebody prone to telling a lie be the foundation of the truth? Peter lied, even denying his Lord!

MATTHEW 26:34

Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, th
Bendido
Posts: 421
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5/20/2015 11:16:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
THE ROMANS 3:4

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Only God cannot lie and it is impossible for Him to lie.

TITUS 1:2

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

HEBREWS 6:18

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Christ, "the church of the living God," is the pillar and foundation of truth!

I TIMOTHY 3:15-16

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Christ is called as "the house" or "the church of the living God"! Note that Verse 16 says, "great is the mystery of godliness: 1) Manifested in the flesh, 2) Justified in the Spirit, 3) Seen of angels, 4) Preached unto the Gentiles, 5) Believed on in the world, 6) Received up into glory. (Christ is the subject of this enumeration).
Christ is the God that was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. The person subject of this detailed enumeration (of the Apostle Paul) is Christ, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Christ can be called "the house of God" for the Father dwells in Him.

JOHN 14:10

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

More to come.

Is it the existence of the Catholic Church for almost 2,000 years that proves that it is "the true church?" That is not correct!

Judaism is older than Catholicism! Hinduism has also endured the test of time being older than the Catholic Church! Orthodox churches are as old as the Catholic Church; will it mean that these are also true churches? I disagree!

Here"s a comparison of the start of religions older than that of the Roman Catholic Church (Ref: patheos.com)

Meanwhile, when did the Roman Catholic Church begin? First century AD, if they are correct " but not earlier than that.

The reference used here is The Catholic News Service in "Vatican congregation reaffirms truth, oneness of the Catholic Church."

Let us learn more in the succeeding issues of my blog.

Truly yours,

Brother Eli
mindbender
Posts: 155
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5/21/2015 12:23:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
A body named Jesus didn't have a last name called Christ. Christ is the word of the Lord that all the prophets and saints spoke for our Father who is the Lord and Savior of all his people. Jesus happened to be God's first saint who spoke Christ.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Bendido
Posts: 421
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5/21/2015 1:22:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2015 12:23:44 AM, mindbender wrote:
A body named Jesus didn't have a last name called Christ. Christ is the word of the Lord that all the prophets and saints spoke for our Father who is the Lord and Savior of all his people. Jesus happened to be God's first saint who spoke Christ.

Matthew 1:16
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
mindbender
Posts: 155
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5/21/2015 1:35:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2015 1:22:22 AM, Bendido wrote:
At 5/21/2015 12:23:44 AM, mindbender wrote:
A body named Jesus didn't have a last name called Christ. Christ is the word of the Lord that all the prophets and saints spoke for our Father who is the Lord and Savior of all his people. Jesus happened to be God's first saint who spoke Christ.

Matthew 1:16
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

John 7
13: Yet for fear of the Jews no one spoke openly of him.
14: About the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught.
15: The Jews marveled at it, saying, "How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?"
16: So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me;

John 14
11: Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.
12: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father.
24: He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.


John 12
44: And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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5/21/2015 1:40:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2015 11:16:34 PM, Bendido wrote:

I'm not sure it is worth my efforts as you continually don't bother to reply...

Christ: The Rock of True Church, Not Peter

http://www.controversyextraordinary.com...

Let us open our Bibles and consider again Matthew 16:18:


MATTHEW 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Baseline data here is that the words spoken by Christ comes from the Father.

JOHN 12:49

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

When in Matthew 16:18 Christ said, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" plus the fact that the words spoken by Christ comes from the Father, it must be understood that the real person speaking in the verse is the Father through the mouth of Christ.

"I say unto" involves a first person; "Thou art Peter," a second person, and "And upon this rock" refers to a third person. It is obvious that if Peter is the rock the speaker should have said, "Upon you I will build my church."

"Upon this rock" is coherent with the declaration of Peter, "thou art the Christ."

Notice the use of the demonstrative pronoun, "this rock." "Upon this rock" clearly refers to Upon Christ which rock Jesus is. In all senses of grammar, common understanding, and logic, Peter cannot be the rock, the foundation of the true church. Never could a corruptible human being be! But notice the belief of the Roman Catholic Church as contained in their Modern Catholic Dictionary describing Peter as their first Pope, referring to him as "the rock."

Grammatically speaking, if Peter were the rock, the speaker should have said, "and I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon you I will build my church."

Why did not Christ say, "I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon me I will build my church?" Logical, because He is not the speaker. The real speaker is the Father that is the first person. The second person is Peter, and the third person is the rock, which is Christ, which he (Peter) acknowledged as the "Son of the living God."

Logically speaking, if Peter were the rock, the speaker should have said, "and I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon you I will build my church."

Ummm that is what he said. It was in this discourse that Peter was named "Rock". This is something that is lost in english, but in aramaic it would have said:

You are Rock, and on this rock I will build my church. God rarely renamed people and when he did it was a very special sign.

Abram -> Abraham
Sarai -> Sarah
Jacob -> Israel
Simon -> Peter

Peter had just been given this name by Jesus. Then Jesus says why he renamed Simon to Peter.

You are Rock and on this rock I will build my Church. Jesus' Church is always identifiable by Peter.
olivetwo
Posts: 262
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5/21/2015 6:32:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The fact is that catholic is not part of Christendom. "The Rock" that is definite article. Meaning the only Rock of true Church is Christ, right?
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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5/21/2015 6:45:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The whole Story of Peter and the Rock was written to capture Rome's main City God Janus Pater, the God of Gates. The usage of "church" by Jesus shows us that this tale was written by Gentiles, most likely one of the Church Fathers promoting the formation of a Gentile Christian priesthood with Gentile churches while Jesus as a Jew would never think of using Greek terminology for such an important religious concept--spiritual fellowship. The Mandean Gnostics considered Pauline Christianity the "Roman Jesus" worshipers and it should not come as a surprise to find Rome behind the whole anti-Jewish appropriation of Jewish Jesus to create this Gentile false face of what is Jewish Christianity.
Bendido
Posts: 421
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5/21/2015 11:22:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/21/2015 6:32:23 AM, olivetwo wrote:
The fact is that catholic is not part of Christendom. "The Rock" that is definite article. Meaning the only Rock of true Church is Christ, right?

Absolutely right
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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5/21/2015 11:36:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/20/2015 11:16:34 PM, Bendido wrote:
Christ: The Rock of True Church, Not Peter

http://www.controversyextraordinary.com...

Let us open our Bibles and consider again Matthew 16:18:


MATTHEW 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Baseline data here is that the words spoken by Christ comes from the Father.

JOHN 12:49

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

When in Matthew 16:18 Christ said, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" plus the fact that the words spoken by Christ comes from the Father, it must be understood that the real person speaking in the verse is the Father through the mouth of Christ.

"I say unto" involves a first person; "Thou art Peter," a second person, and "And upon this rock" refers to a third person. It is obvious that if Peter is the rock the speaker should have said, "Upon you I will build my church."

"Upon this rock" is coherent with the declaration of Peter, "thou art the Christ."

Notice the use of the demonstrative pronoun, "this rock." "Upon this rock" clearly refers to Upon Christ which rock Jesus is. In all senses of grammar, common understanding, and logic, Peter cannot be the rock, the foundation of the true church. Never could a corruptible human being be! But notice the belief of the Roman Catholic Church as contained in their Modern Catholic Dictionary describing Peter as their first Pope, referring to him as "the rock."

Grammatically speaking, if Peter were the rock, the speaker should have said, "and I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon you I will build my church."

Why did not Christ say, "I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon me I will build my church?" Logical, because He is not the speaker. The real speaker is the Father that is the first person. The second person is Peter, and the third person is the rock, which is Christ, which he (Peter) acknowledged as the "Son of the living God."

Logically speaking, if Peter were the rock, the speaker should have said, "and I say unto thee that thou art Peter and upon you I will build my church."

Using common sense to understand this phrase, "and I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church," we see that somebody is talking to Peter, represented by X. X talks to Peter.

"And upon this rock" is Y, the rock.

Speaker X mentioning Y to Peter means X is not Peter.

Peter is not Y and Y is not X. Common sense tells us that Peter is the clue to knowing who is Y and who is X.

X, the speaker, is the Father. X is the first person, "I."

Meanwhile, Peter is the second person, "unto thee" and is different from "and upon this rock," a third person (Y).

I, (X) will build my church upon Y (the rock). But Y is not Peter. Y is not the rock.

Why could not the rock be Peter? To be sure, we must look for the exact person represented by Y that is the rock.

Y was revealed by X to Peter as in, "flesh and blood did not reveal this unto you but my Father (X) in heaven." What was revealed this time was, "thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

This secret revealed by the Father (X) to Peter was that Christ, the Son of the living God, is the rock upon which "I (X, the Father) will build my church." Take note that even Peter understood this. Why shouldn"t the Roman Catholic Church?

Let us for the meantime set aside the logical, the grammatical, and the sensical analysis of the verse. Let us now be biblical!

Before taking the human form, the coming of the Son of God was foretold by the Father that a prophet "I will raise from among your brethren like unto thee (Moses), and I will put my words into His mouth".

DEUTERONOMY 18:18

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

This prophet whom God will raise from the Israelites is the Lord Jesus Christ.

THE ACTS 3:22, 20

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

When preaching in the flesh, in the form of a man, the Son said, "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me," exactly in coherence with the prophecy, "I will put my words into his mouth."

JOHN 7:16

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

The rightful and biblical builder of the true church is the Father.

HEBREWS 3:4

For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

The words uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ coming out of His mouth was, "I say unto thee, thou art Peter and upon this rock, "I will build my church," is genuinely the words of the Father, the builder of everything that exists.

And who is the foundation intended by the builder, the Father, to be the foundation of the true church?

I CORINTHIANS 3:11

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

It is Christ " and not a mere human being like Peter! The builder, the Father, laid the foundation of everything that He created. He laid the foundation of the earth and the universe!

JOB 38:4

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

HEBREWS 11:3

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The Father who laid the foundation of the universe and of the earth is undoubtedly the same person who laid the foundation of the true church, that is Christ. That church to be built upon the foundation Christ is composed of the apostles (including Peter), the prophets, teachers, and the like.

I CORINTHIANS 12:28

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

As it is impossible for Peter to be the foundation, obviously because he is part of those that were built upon Christ, it is equally impossible for the Roman Catholic Church to be the church built by the Father! That is biblically speaking!

EPHESIANS 2:20

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Note in the verse above that the Apostles and the Prophets were built upon the foundation. Peter is one of the apostles built upon the foundation. Logically, grammatically, biblically, and sensibly speaking, Peter is not the rock, nor the foundation of the true church! But the Roman Catholic Church in her misinterpretation because of her ignorance about the Scriptures refuses to accept the foundation rock of the true church - Christ! The builder of the Catholic Church is not the Father!

THE ACTS 4:11-12 (RSV)

11 This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner.

12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

Too bad the whole of the bible is useless garbage...
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein