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A question to theists

Mason0612
Posts: 160
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8/8/2010 6:58:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am an atheist, but I will give theists a clean slate on this thread. Maybe I am not aware of some overwhelming evidence or good reasons for believing in a God. I have not seen any arguments that help prove God, so I will give people a chance right here.

To theists:

Give me a piece of evidence or statement that you believe is the most solid in terms of proving your God. You can give multiple reasons why you think he exists, but I want you to make clear what your number 1 reason is.
Mason0612
Posts: 160
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8/8/2010 7:02:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 7:00:25 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Ok, I'm probably a bad example, considering I believe there is a God, but I have no evidence to 100% prove it.

Haha, it's ok. I am fully aware that there is no piece of evidence that proves or disproves God 100%. I just want people to post their number 1 reason that they believe gives credibility to the faith.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/8/2010 7:03:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If they don't believe in God and love Him, they will burn in hell.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Mason0612
Posts: 160
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8/8/2010 7:12:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 7:03:47 PM, tvellalott wrote:
If they don't believe in God and love Him, they will burn in hell.

Haha, that would be pretty pathetic is someone used this as their main reason.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/8/2010 7:14:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 7:12:10 PM, Mason0612 wrote:
At 8/8/2010 7:03:47 PM, tvellalott wrote:
If they don't believe in God and love Him, they will burn in hell.

Haha, that would be pretty pathetic is someone used this as their main reason.

*doesn't look at anyone in particular*
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/8/2010 7:19:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I know of loads of evidence !!! but it's 3 in the morning here so I'm off to bed, just Google videos "Ron Wyatt Red sea crossing" or "Noah's Ark" or "Mount Sinai" there's loads all Ron Wyatt "Sodom & Gomorrah" etc, he found them all. if you watch them and still don't believe then "Houston we do have a problem" !!

Let me know how you get on, and good night all
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/8/2010 7:26:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Fun to ponder.

1. The universe does not exist.
Even though we observe it and the like, we are observing through the same medium we do in dreams. It is entirely possible that we are dreaming in a similar fashion now.
->I cannot trust my senses to give us actual data regarding reality.
If we have reached the present by a constant time motion, then that motion must have continued indefinitely, which means that we definitely would have never reached the present. It's like counting to zero from negative infinity. It cannot be done.
->The universe has crucial contradictions with the way it is currently set up which mean it probably is a fantasy.

2. My cognition exists.
I know this because I am experiencing the universe. I have to exist to experience, whether said experience is reality or not.
->I exist.
What exists is my cognition, which processes my experience of the universe.
->I exist, at minimum, in the form of cognition.

3. Other processes occur outside of my cognition.
I know this because I am experiencing the universe without having control over it.
->There must be some other function calculating the processes of the universe I am experiencing.
This function is external to my cognition because I cannot control it, but connected because I can influence it. These external, connected functions include other consciousnesses that appear to work in the same manner as mine. At minimum, they are calculated. At maximum, they are equal to my cognition. However, a system that would calculate or simulate free will would be much more complicated than one that just has it.
->There must be some other individuals connected to the same system as myself.

4. This network constitutes god.
It governs the processes of the universe, brought the universe into existence, and has the capabilities to alter the functions of the universe.
->This network is omnipotent.
It is everywhere, yet unobservable.
->This network is omnipresent.
It simulates, and therefore knows, all the affairs of the universe.
->This network is omniscient.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/8/2010 7:28:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 7:19:28 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
I know of loads of evidence !!! but it's 3 in the morning here so I'm off to bed, just Google videos "Ron Wyatt Red sea crossing" or "Noah's Ark" or "Mount Sinai" there's loads all Ron Wyatt "Sodom & Gomorrah" etc, he found them all. if you watch them and still don't believe then "Houston we do have a problem" !!

Let me know how you get on, and good night all

I bolded the key part.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 7:34:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I asked my sister this (she's a weird Lutheran) and this was her response:

1. Comfort- "I know that someone is looking out for me daily. And when my time has ended on Earth, my soul will rise once again to be with our Lord."

2. Creationism- "How else would we exist?"

3. Guilt- "If you deny our God, you will perish. And suffer for eternity."

4. Obedience- "Our Grandmother taught us these laws. To deny it, is to deny your birth right. We should follow God."

...We're not that alike.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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8/8/2010 8:38:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
By the Spirit personally testifying to me of the truth of
Jesus Christ as the savior of all the world
Joseph Smith as the prophet of the restoration
and
Thomas S. Monson as the living prophet of God on this earth today
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/8/2010 8:56:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 8:38:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
By the Spirit personally testifying to me

wow... I guess you're pretty special to merit such attention.

too bad for all the other people in the world who aren't so priviledged... and will accordingly be sent to hell to be tortured for all eternity. :(
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/8/2010 9:03:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 8:38:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
By the Spirit personally testifying to me of the truth of
Jesus Christ as the savior of all the world
Joseph Smith as the prophet of the restoration
and
Thomas S. Monson as the living prophet of God on this earth today

So you believe there's prophets around today? You know, so many people would consider you a heretic for that. Just warning you, haha.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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8/8/2010 9:23:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 8:56:58 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:38:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
By the Spirit personally testifying to me

wow... I guess you're pretty special to merit such attention.

Moroni 10:4-5

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things

Any person who asks the Father in the name of Christ with a sincere heart and having faith in Christ can have the spirit witness the truth of these things unto them
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/8/2010 9:24:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 9:23:14 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:56:58 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:38:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
By the Spirit personally testifying to me

wow... I guess you're pretty special to merit such attention.

Moroni 10:4-5

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things

Any person who asks the Father in the name of Christ with a sincere heart and having faith in Christ can have the spirit witness the truth of these things unto them

This isn't going to end well... 0_0
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/8/2010 9:27:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 9:23:14 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:56:58 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:38:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
By the Spirit personally testifying to me

wow... I guess you're pretty special to merit such attention.

Moroni 10:4-5

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things

Any person who asks the Father in the name of Christ with a sincere heart and having faith in Christ can have the spirit witness the truth of these things unto them

you said you believe in god BECAUSE of personal testimony from the spirit of god.

so... for those who haven't had such testimony... why would they believe in God?

and of course if those unlucky people, who don't get testimonies, don't believe in God... then they're not going to ask God with a sincere heart for truth.

so... again... You must be awful special... and it's too bad for all those people not so priviledged who will, as a result, be tortured in hell for all eternity.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Yvette
Posts: 859
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8/8/2010 10:34:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 9:23:14 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:56:58 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:38:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
By the Spirit personally testifying to me

wow... I guess you're pretty special to merit such attention.

Moroni 10:4-5

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things


Any person who asks the Father in the name of Christ with a sincere heart and having faith in Christ can have the spirit witness the truth of these things unto them

Weird, I did that as a kid. Didn't work for me. Maybe I didn't ask right?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/8/2010 10:44:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:34:10 PM, Yvette wrote:
At 8/8/2010 9:23:14 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:56:58 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/8/2010 8:38:06 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
By the Spirit personally testifying to me

wow... I guess you're pretty special to merit such attention.

Moroni 10:4-5

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things


Any person who asks the Father in the name of Christ with a sincere heart and having faith in Christ can have the spirit witness the truth of these things unto them

Weird, I did that as a kid. Didn't work for me. Maybe I didn't ask right?

lol...

me too!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/8/2010 10:45:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 10:34:10 PM, Yvette wrote:
Weird, I did that as a kid. Didn't work for me. Maybe I didn't ask right?

you must not have really been sincere.

the evidence? : you're now a dirty atheist.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Mason0612
Posts: 160
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8/9/2010 3:35:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 7:19:28 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
I know of loads of evidence !!! but it's 3 in the morning here so I'm off to bed, just Google videos "Ron Wyatt Red sea crossing" or "Noah's Ark" or "Mount Sinai" there's loads all Ron Wyatt "Sodom & Gomorrah" etc, he found them all. if you watch them and still don't believe then "Houston we do have a problem" !!

Let me know how you get on, and good night all

I am going to watch these videos, and I will reply to you when I finish.
RainbowBrite
Posts: 69
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8/9/2010 11:33:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 6:58:11 PM, Mason0612 wrote:
To theists:

Give me a piece of evidence or statement that you believe is the most solid in terms of proving your God. You can give multiple reasons why you think he exists, but I want you to make clear what your number 1 reason is.

#1 reason, prayer works to remove my anger, lust, etc. where other things don't.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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8/9/2010 11:37:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/8/2010 9:23:14 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Any person who asks the Father in the name of Christ with a sincere heart and having faith in Christ can have the spirit witness the truth of these things unto them

A test failed multiple times by a multitude of people.
RainbowBrite
Posts: 69
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8/9/2010 11:49:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/9/2010 11:37:37 PM, Puck wrote:
A test failed multiple times by a multitude of people.

If it's already deemed as failed then it hasn't been tested enough, since an omniscient God knows when people will give up. Like if I am a landlord and I know you will quit paying me rent halfway through your lease, then you aren't getting in to start with.
Mason0612
Posts: 160
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8/9/2010 11:53:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/9/2010 11:49:12 PM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/9/2010 11:37:37 PM, Puck wrote:
A test failed multiple times by a multitude of people.

If it's already deemed as failed then it hasn't been tested enough, since an omniscient God knows when people will give up. Like if I am a landlord and I know you will quit paying me rent halfway through your lease, then you aren't getting in to start with.

You are comparing God to a landlord?

1. God is invisible, landlord I can see.
2. Can't interact with God, but can with a landlord.
3. No evidence for God, a fact that the landlord exists.

The two are not alike
RainbowBrite
Posts: 69
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8/9/2010 11:58:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/9/2010 11:53:13 PM, Mason0612 wrote:
You are comparing God to a landlord?

1. God is invisible, landlord I can see.
2. Can't interact with God, but can with a landlord.
3. No evidence for God, a fact that the landlord exists.

The two are not alike

The point of the analogy is not to compare material natures, but illustrating their foreknowledge that you would cease doing what you need to do on your end, thus they may not come through on their ends either.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/10/2010 12:13:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/9/2010 11:49:12 PM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/9/2010 11:37:37 PM, Puck wrote:
A test failed multiple times by a multitude of people.

If it's already deemed as failed then it hasn't been tested enough, since an omniscient God knows when people will give up. Like if I am a landlord and I know you will quit paying me rent halfway through your lease, then you aren't getting in to start with.

How would you be able to tell? Can you look into the future? o_0
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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8/10/2010 12:14:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/9/2010 11:49:12 PM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/9/2010 11:37:37 PM, Puck wrote:
A test failed multiple times by a multitude of people.

If it's already deemed as failed then it hasn't been tested enough, since an omniscient God knows when people will give up. Like if I am a landlord and I know you will quit paying me rent halfway through your lease, then you aren't getting in to start with.

Circular fail since the point of the exercise is to seek evidence.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 12:15:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/9/2010 11:58:37 PM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/9/2010 11:53:13 PM, Mason0612 wrote:
You are comparing God to a landlord?

1. God is invisible, landlord I can see.
2. Can't interact with God, but can with a landlord.
3. No evidence for God, a fact that the landlord exists.

The two are not alike

The point of the analogy is not to compare material natures, but illustrating their foreknowledge that you would cease doing what you need to do on your end, thus they may not come through on their ends either.

Actually, Rainbowbrite is right on this particular point.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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8/10/2010 12:16:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/9/2010 11:58:37 PM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/9/2010 11:53:13 PM, Mason0612 wrote:
You are comparing God to a landlord?

1. God is invisible, landlord I can see.
2. Can't interact with God, but can with a landlord.
3. No evidence for God, a fact that the landlord exists.

The two are not alike

The point of the analogy is not to compare material natures, but illustrating their foreknowledge that you would cease doing what you need to do on your end, thus they may not come through on their ends either.

Which is simply an ad hoc rationalisation of your failed test. It is also possible that the test simply has no chance of success due to the lack of audience. :)
Puck
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8/10/2010 12:19:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 12:15:17 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/9/2010 11:58:37 PM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/9/2010 11:53:13 PM, Mason0612 wrote:
You are comparing God to a landlord?

1. God is invisible, landlord I can see.
2. Can't interact with God, but can with a landlord.
3. No evidence for God, a fact that the landlord exists.

The two are not alike

The point of the analogy is not to compare material natures, but illustrating their foreknowledge that you would cease doing what you need to do on your end, thus they may not come through on their ends either.

Actually, Rainbowbrite is right on this particular point.

Nope. He is saying, given I would have evidence, I would still deny it, therefore I have not received evidence. As a method of determining if prayer is correct it is fail, since the lack of evidence is precisely the point i.e. it simply solidifies the argument from non belief.