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Ethang5 's Factual Objective Evidence

DanneJeRusse
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5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.

The floor is yours, Ethan.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
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5/22/2015 2:11:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.

The floor is yours, Ethan.

I have a sneaking suspicion that we might be waiting a while for this one!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
DanneJeRusse
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5/22/2015 2:17:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 2:11:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.

The floor is yours, Ethan.

I have a sneaking suspicion that we might be waiting a while for this one!

An eternity, perhaps?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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5/22/2015 2:20:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 2:17:08 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/22/2015 2:11:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.

The floor is yours, Ethan.

I have a sneaking suspicion that we might be waiting a while for this one!

An eternity, perhaps?

Since there is no possible way he can present factual evidence, I believe he is going tyo go the route of the "Prime Mover." Which always devolves into circular logic.

Either that, or the tried and true--well, really NOT true. LOL) Pascal's Wager.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
intellectuallyprimitive
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5/22/2015 2:35:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 2:17:08 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/22/2015 2:11:54 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.

The floor is yours, Ethan.

I have a sneaking suspicion that we might be waiting a while for this one!

An eternity, perhaps?

None of us should hold our breathe.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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5/22/2015 4:14:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
bump

Come on, Ethan. Post your evidence, enlighten us all and change the world.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/22/2015 4:20:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.
Ethan has made it clear that I cannot advise him about science, and as he may be too polite and humble to respond to this kind of direct challenge, let me here defend him.

I put it to you that if life did not appear spontaneously then God must have made it, and so the inexplicable existence of life itself would be proof of God.

Now, did you know that despite decades of vigorous scientific inquiry there is no shred of evidence for abiogenesis? It's true! There's absolutely none! Ethan wanted me to admit this in another thread, and I wasn't man enough at the time, so let me do so here.

In fact it's even worse than that: Science has humiliated itself looking.

Don't believe me? I didn't believe it either, until Ethan set me straight.

You see, what happened was that in 1952, a Nobel-winning scientist named Harold Urey opined that if the Earth had a reducing atmosphere -- i.e. one with (say) ammonia in it instead of nitrogen, it might find easy ways to produce amino acids, the precursor of all carbon-based life. [http://www.pnas.org...]

In the same year, a young graduate chemist named Stanley Miller decided to test the idea of producing amino acids in an ammonia atmosphere using lightning as an energy-source. Although a dangerous experiment, with risk of explosion, he proceeded carefully and lo and behold -- found some! He duly reported this to Science in 1953 [http://abenteuer-universum.de...], noting that if Earth had a reducing atmosphere and lots of thunderstorms, this might be how it produced amino acids.

Now, factually and objectively, an ammonia atmosphere was never proven in the 1950s, so did Urey and Miller go out on a limb there with all that too-smart-for-Sundayschool guesswork?

Could be, right?

But wait, it gets better! Scientists now think the earth had an oxidising atmosphere made up mainly of nitrogen and carbon dioxide, which would require retesting the famous Miller-Urey experiment under updated conditions (which Miller's student Jeffrey Bada did here for example, using volcanic gas, carbonates and iron to produce more amines [https://www.scientificamerican.com...].)

But hold on! Factually and objectively, you can't just go ahead and do that! Science made a documented ASSUMPTION, and as we all know, when you ASSUME, you make a (donkey-not-buttocks-you-dumb-profanity-detector) out of YOU, and never mind ME.

So if Science dares to make an assumption (let's give it a scientific-sounding name and call it a conjecture) and DARES to experiment on that conjecture without first PROVING it, Science should not -- NOT! -- repeat the experiments under new conditions, or explore the question further. Factually and objectively, it ought to stand in the corner and have stones thrown at it while people laugh and talk about God.

Why is that?

Well, look at it this way: if Science has failed on a first attempt to disprove God's creation of life, that can only be that God is smarter than Science. Now factually and objectively, you can't be smart and not exist, because that would be pretty dumb.

Therefore God does exist because Life and Miller-Urey and carbon dioxide and ha ha Science!

It may be that Ethan has many other factual and objective reasons to offer for proof of God, but if he does not, please accept at least this one, where the dire and unexpected social implications of changing a scientific conjecture are discussed at length here: [http://www.debate.org...]

Ethan, as I mentioned at top, I know your unfailing politeness and humility might inhibit you from offering this evidence yourself, so I have done so for you.

You are welcome.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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5/22/2015 4:43:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.

The floor is yours, Ethan.

I'm waiting for the 'you have to prove your claim first' even when no claim is made response.
DanneJeRusse
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5/22/2015 4:47:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Classic Ruv!
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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5/22/2015 4:56:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 4:20:17 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.
Ethan has made it clear that I cannot advise him about science, and as he may be too polite and humble to respond to this kind of direct challenge, let me here defend him.

I put it to you that if life did not appear spontaneously then God must have made it, and so the inexplicable existence of life itself would be proof of God.

Now, did you know that despite decades of vigorous scientific inquiry there is no shred of evidence for abiogenesis? It's true! There's absolutely none! Ethan wanted me to admit this in another thread, and I wasn't man enough at the time, so let me do so here.

In fact it's even worse than that: Science has humiliated itself looking.

Don't believe me? I didn't believe it either, until Ethan set me straight.

You see, what happened was that in 1952, a Nobel-winning scientist named Harold Urey opined that if the Earth had a reducing atmosphere -- i.e. one with (say) ammonia in it instead of nitrogen, it might find easy ways to produce amino acids, the precursor of all carbon-based life. [http://www.pnas.org...]

In the same year, a young graduate chemist named Stanley Miller decided to test the idea of producing amino acids in an ammonia atmosphere using lightning as an energy-source. Although a dangerous experiment, with risk of explosion, he proceeded carefully and lo and behold -- found some! He duly reported this to Science in 1953 [http://abenteuer-universum.de...], noting that if Earth had a reducing atmosphere and lots of thunderstorms, this might be how it produced amino acids.

Now, factually and objectively, an ammonia atmosphere was never proven in the 1950s, so did Urey and Miller go out on a limb there with all that too-smart-for-Sundayschool guesswork?

Could be, right?

But wait, it gets better! Scientists now think the earth had an oxidising atmosphere made up mainly of nitrogen and carbon dioxide, which would require retesting the famous Miller-Urey experiment under updated conditions (which Miller's student Jeffrey Bada did here for example, using volcanic gas, carbonates and iron to produce more amines [https://www.scientificamerican.com...].)

But hold on! Factually and objectively, you can't just go ahead and do that! Science made a documented ASSUMPTION, and as we all know, when you ASSUME, you make a (donkey-not-buttocks-you-dumb-profanity-detector) out of YOU, and never mind ME.

So if Science dares to make an assumption (let's give it a scientific-sounding name and call it a conjecture) and DARES to experiment on that conjecture without first PROVING it, Science should not -- NOT! -- repeat the experiments under new conditions, or explore the question further. Factually and objectively, it ought to stand in the corner and have stones thrown at it while people laugh and talk about God.

Why is that?

Well, look at it this way: if Science has failed on a first attempt to disprove God's creation of life, that can only be that God is smarter than Science. Now factually and objectively, you can't be smart and not exist, because that would be pretty dumb.

Therefore God does exist because Life and Miller-Urey and carbon dioxide and ha ha Science!

It may be that Ethan has many other factual and objective reasons to offer for proof of God, but if he does not, please accept at least this one, where the dire and unexpected social implications of changing a scientific conjecture are discussed at length here: [http://www.debate.org...]

Ethan, as I mentioned at top, I know your unfailing politeness and humility might inhibit you from offering this evidence yourself, so I have done so for you.

You are welcome.

What you have not mentioned is in both assumptions Huey, Jeffery Bada amino acids were produced. Either conditions would have led to the formation of amino acids.

The universe as we know it could not have been created by an intelligent designer.
Why have billions and billions of galaxies like ours that are inhabitable and eventually self destruct when earth is the only planet that sustains life?

Most mathematical models of our universe and the calculations predicting the probability of life turn out very different from where life is actually found. The data does not match the conclusion.

Theology does not account for empirical data and empirical data does not support metaphysical phenomena. Theology has to be expanded to include empirical evidence or forever remain speculative.

Hope this will give Ethang5 a nudge to start looking outside his comfort zone which is unverifiable delusions and beliefs of people long dead.
RuvDraba
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5/22/2015 5:22:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 4:56:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Theology does not account for empirical data and empirical data does not support metaphysical phenomena. Theology has to be expanded to include empirical evidence or forever remain speculative.
Or put another way, Hari, you have to read science extensively, close to the source, and in the context of the discipline before you can make theological sense of it. You can't read theology first and then make scientific determinations on a skim of popular science reports.

I certainly hope that Ethan has more than one factual, objective proof of God. I'd really like to see another defensive, ill-read ad-hominem attack scorn and insult its way to veracity.
Double_R
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5/22/2015 7:39:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.

The floor is yours, Ethan.

I'm holding my breath.

Wait, maybe this isn't such a good idea...
Accipiter
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5/22/2015 9:02:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've never met a religious person that would answer a question if I sincerely want them to answer it.
DanneJeRusse
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5/22/2015 9:47:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm sure Ethan is spending his time wisely now, carefully thinking over and planning how he's going to demonstrate the awesomeness of God right before our very eyes. Rumor has it, a rep from the Nobel Institute will be in the crowd. It's so exciting!
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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5/22/2015 10:44:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Don't waste your time ethang. I've tried such on an earlier thread. All I got was insults from DJR in particular.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
intellectuallyprimitive
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5/23/2015 1:55:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 10:44:35 PM, Iredia wrote:
Don't waste your time ethang. I've tried such on an earlier thread. All I got was insults from DJR in particular.

If you have access to a source of verifiable evidence substantiating the god you and Ethang5 posit, then, "do or do not, there is no try."
JJ50
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5/23/2015 2:46:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 1:59:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
Ethang5 has on several occasions claimed he as factual objective evidence for God. Since he probably doesn't want to derail any threads presenting his evidence, this thread will be for him to show us.

The floor is yours, Ethan.

Hell will freeze over before the guy presents any factual, objective evidence for the deity, as of course there isn't any!
DanneJeRusse
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5/23/2015 8:12:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 10:44:35 PM, Iredia wrote:
Don't waste your time ethang. I've tried such on an earlier thread. All I got was insults from DJR in particular.

You kept making claims about a spiritual reality but would never explain yourself upon request.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
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5/23/2015 8:18:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/23/2015 8:12:33 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 5/22/2015 10:44:35 PM, Iredia wrote:
Don't waste your time ethang. I've tried such on an earlier thread. All I got was insults from DJR in particular.

You kept making claims about a spiritual reality but would never explain yourself upon request.

Sorry, that wasn't you, it was another believer. You were on about consciousness not being material. You can continue fighting that one here if you want.

I'm looking for any objective factual evidence.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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5/23/2015 9:54:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 4:14:53 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
bump

Come on, Ethan. Post your evidence, enlighten us all and change the world.

Bump.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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5/23/2015 11:36:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 10:44:35 PM, Iredia wrote:
Don't waste your time ethang. I've tried such on an earlier thread. All I got was insults from DJR in particular.

Is this the thread where it was pointed out that you were making one argument that was self refuting, and another two that were assuming their own conclusion, and then conveniently stopped replying when this was pointed out and justified in detail?
ethang5
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5/23/2015 4:15:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/22/2015 10:44:35 PM, Iredia wrote:

Don't waste your time ethang. I've tried such on an earlier thread. All I got was insults from DJR in particular.

Hi Ireda. thanks for the heads up. I've been doing this for a long time and I know I won't convince any of them. I mean, from the circle jerk that's been going on, one can almost feel the lack of objectivity.

But I will address the issue, because for every loud, militant atheist who comes crowing into the thread, are a ton of normal people who have not yet had their minds closed with the "certainty" that they cannot possibly be wrong. Those people are still reachable by logic and facts.

My post to the circle-jerkers next
RuvDraba
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5/23/2015 4:39:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/23/2015 4:15:51 PM, ethang5 wrote:
from the circle jerk that's been going on [...]
the lack of objectivity.

Will this unconscious irony carry through to your other posts, Ethan?

If so, this thread will give me many grins.

Either way, thank you for responding.
DanneJeRusse
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5/23/2015 5:43:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/23/2015 4:15:51 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 5/22/2015 10:44:35 PM, Iredia wrote:

Don't waste your time ethang. I've tried such on an earlier thread. All I got was insults from DJR in particular.

Hi Ireda. thanks for the heads up. I've been doing this for a long time and I know I won't convince any of them. I mean, from the circle jerk that's been going on, one can almost feel the lack of objectivity.

But I will address the issue, because for every loud, militant atheist who comes crowing into the thread, are a ton of normal people who have not yet had their minds closed with the "certainty" that they cannot possibly be wrong. Those people are still reachable by logic and facts.

My post to the circle-jerkers next

YAY!!!
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
SNP1
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5/23/2015 7:41:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/23/2015 4:15:51 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 5/22/2015 10:44:35 PM, Iredia wrote:

Don't waste your time ethang. I've tried such on an earlier thread. All I got was insults from DJR in particular.

Hi Ireda. thanks for the heads up. I've been doing this for a long time and I know I won't convince any of them. I mean, from the circle jerk that's been going on, one can almost feel the lack of objectivity.

But I will address the issue, because for every loud, militant atheist who comes crowing into the thread, are a ton of normal people who have not yet had their minds closed with the "certainty" that they cannot possibly be wrong. Those people are still reachable by logic and facts.

My post to the circle-jerkers next

Someone call the irony police!
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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5/24/2015 6:52:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/24/2015 2:00:31 AM, Double_R wrote:
*Finishes the popcorn. Still waiting*

Please accept my apologies for any delay, Double_R. I regret to report that Ethan's still busy trying to bait me in another thread. [http://www.debate.org...]

Apparently my offense is either in breathing or not paying his belligerent exhibitionism enough attention. I'm not sure which is the greater offense, and perhaps both are -- perhaps it would be better if I died gasping, awed by a 53 year-old's schoolyard insults. But to the extent that I may be responsible for any delay by surviving indifferent and unimpressed, I can only apologise.

Yet either way, such behaviour presently seems more important to him than responding to DjR's politely-phrased invitation to take centre-stage and offer something coherent, constructive and thoughtful.

In itself that might say something, I suppose, about the way he views this site and its members. But I'll leave that to him to explain.
Fly
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5/24/2015 10:40:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Longest drumroll... ever!

Question is: is the tingle of anticipation growing... or subsiding? Was the tingle ever even there?
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
DanneJeRusse
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5/24/2015 11:06:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/24/2015 10:40:23 AM, Fly wrote:
Longest drumroll... ever!

Question is: is the tingle of anticipation growing... or subsiding? Was the tingle ever even there?

Well, we do have his assurance,,,

At 5/23/2015 4:15:51 PM, ethang5 wrote:

But I will address the issue...

My post to the circle-jerkers next

I'm sure he's got something spectacular in mind that will blow our circle jerk to pieces.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth