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gerrandesquire
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8/10/2010 12:44:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I an another thread of mine, there was an off topic deiscussion about how it can't be proven that prayer reduces stress..

This newspaper report is what i read today:

DEAR DR GOD

like in the beatles song, when you find yourself in times of trouble, thinking about god reduces stress. This works only for believers, though, as atheists become more stressed when primed with God related ideas. Thinking about religion and God helps the brain of believers respond, differently to stress and helps them take mistakes and setbacks in their stride, reported a study in Psycological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science. The study found people with faith were primed to think about God, brain activity decreased in the anterior cingulate cortex, an area of brain that regulates arousal and alerts the body to things going wrong.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/10/2010 12:46:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Funny you made a thread about this because I was just reading the same thing. Prayer certainly gives me a time where I can just forget everything and leave all my stress behind. It can be kinda relieving.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 12:49:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Prayer may temporarily reduce stress, but the later realization that it does nothing will likely bring even more stress.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
gerrandesquire
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8/10/2010 12:50:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 12:49:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Prayer may temporarily reduce stress, but the later realization that it does nothing will likely bring even more stress.

this is an unfounded claim.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/10/2010 12:51:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 12:49:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Prayer may temporarily reduce stress, but the later realization that it does nothing will likely bring even more stress.

Yes, that is why I try to solve my own problems too.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/10/2010 12:58:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 12:51:02 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/10/2010 12:49:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Prayer may temporarily reduce stress, but the later realization that it does nothing will likely bring even more stress.

Yes, that is why I try to solve my own problems too.

whose side are you on?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/10/2010 1:00:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 12:58:33 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/10/2010 12:51:02 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/10/2010 12:49:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Prayer may temporarily reduce stress, but the later realization that it does nothing will likely bring even more stress.

Yes, that is why I try to solve my own problems too.

whose side are you on?

I believe in God.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 1:02:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:00:20 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I believe in God.

You believe in God, but you believe the power of prayer is futile? That means you're Deist.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 1:04:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 12:50:29 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/10/2010 12:49:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Prayer may temporarily reduce stress, but the later realization that it does nothing will likely bring even more stress.

this is an unfounded claim.

I think it's a claim that simply makes sense. Wouldn't you be stressed after a failed prayer?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/10/2010 1:06:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:02:52 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/10/2010 1:00:20 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I believe in God.

You believe in God, but you believe the power of prayer is futile? That means you're Deist.

No, I don't believe all prayers are futile, just the unanswered ones. :P
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/10/2010 1:06:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:04:37 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/10/2010 12:50:29 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/10/2010 12:49:27 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Prayer may temporarily reduce stress, but the later realization that it does nothing will likely bring even more stress.

this is an unfounded claim.

I think it's a claim that simply makes sense. Wouldn't you be stressed after a failed prayer?

no? because most of my prayers are fulfilled, in fact all of them are, touchwood.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 1:07:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:06:04 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
no? because most of my prayers are fulfilled, in fact all of them are, touchwood.

So why are your prayers answered, but if I pray for something, it won't be answered?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/10/2010 1:09:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:07:54 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/10/2010 1:06:04 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
no? because most of my prayers are fulfilled, in fact all of them are, touchwood.

So why are your prayers answered, but if I pray for something, it won't be answered?

maybe you don't work for them hard enough, or maybe you don't believe that they'll be fulfilled. The power of thought is quite momentous.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 1:17:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:09:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/10/2010 1:07:54 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So why are your prayers answered, but if I pray for something, it won't be answered?

maybe you don't work for them hard enough, or maybe you don't believe that they'll be fulfilled. The power of thought is quite momentous.

Well, I was a Christian for about 17 years and have made countless sincere prayers and they basically did nothing. Either I'd pray for something that would inevitably happen like "I pray that this person gets better" and that person does eventually. But other prayers that were more specific and things that are unlikely to happen, didn't happen.

It basically amounts to coincidence or futility.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
RainbowBrite
Posts: 69
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8/10/2010 1:19:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:06:04 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
no? because most of my prayers are fulfilled, in fact all of them are, touchwood.

I pray for me to understand God's will before anythingIf I pray not to be selfish, angry, lustful, whatever those are always fulfilled. If I pray for an ill person to get better, I also pray that if they don't, they and their loved ones are comforted, and that they are going to a good place. My prayers are fairly realistic and non-material based, which is really how the Christian Bible says to make them anyway, not like magic spells to get stuff I want.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/10/2010 1:25:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well, I was a Christian for about 17 years and have made countless sincere prayers and they basically did nothing. Either I'd pray for something that would inevitably happen like "I pray that this person gets better" and that person does eventually. But other prayers that were more specific and things that are unlikely to happen, didn't happen.

It basically amounts to coincidence or futility.

prayers are absolute, needs no adjectives(sincere); in fact when you add adjective they are no more prayers ; just wishes;desires; conditional commitments.
RainbowBrite
Posts: 69
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8/10/2010 1:25:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:17:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Well, I was a Christian for about 17 years and have made countless sincere prayers and they basically did nothing. Either I'd pray for something that would inevitably happen like "I pray that this person gets better" and that person does eventually. But other prayers that were more specific and things that are unlikely to happen, didn't happen.

It basically amounts to coincidence or futility.

If I wander away from faith I talk myself into thinking it never really worked and whitewash it. Then when I get back into it I realize it did work, and that I just wanted to do what I wanted to do. I spent about 30 years doing that back and forth dabbling around until I finally got serious and stopped treating it like a game, and now it works consistently for me.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/10/2010 1:29:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:17:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/10/2010 1:09:31 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/10/2010 1:07:54 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
So why are your prayers answered, but if I pray for something, it won't be answered?

maybe you don't work for them hard enough, or maybe you don't believe that they'll be fulfilled. The power of thought is quite momentous.

Well, I was a Christian for about 17 years and have made countless sincere prayers and they basically did nothing. Either I'd pray for something that would inevitably happen like "I pray that this person gets better" and that person does eventually. But other prayers that were more specific and things that are unlikely to happen, didn't happen.

It basically amounts to coincidence or futility.

Geo, prayer isn't a Christmas list for Santa. If you look at prayer in that way, you will fail at it.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 1:30:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:25:38 AM, RainbowBrite wrote:
If I wander away from faith I talk myself into thinking it never really worked and whitewash it. Then when I get back into it I realize it did work,

I don't care if Christianity "works" for me. I care if it's true, and as it happens, Christianity is demonstrably false.

and that I just wanted to do what I wanted to do.

You do realize that Buddhism does have a code of ethics and conduct right? I didn't leave Christianity and come to Buddhism just so I could do whatever I want.

I spent about 30 years doing that back and forth dabbling around until I finally got serious and stopped treating it like a game, and now it works consistently for me.

What works? Prayer? Belief in God?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/10/2010 1:31:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I pray for me to understand God's will before anythingIf I pray not to be selfish, angry, lustful, whatever those are always fulfilled. If I pray for an ill person to get better, I also pray that if they don't, they and their loved ones are comforted, and that they are going to a good place. My prayers are fairly realistic and non-material based, which is really how the Christian Bible says to make them anyway, not like magic spells to get stuff I want.

At 8/10/2010 12:28:37 AM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/10/2010 12:24:53 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Rubbish. Not to mention, didn't you say that worshiping the other deities are stepping stones to worshiping the one true God?

By the way, Hindus believe in one monotheistic God as well. They believe in Brahman, who is actually even greater than Yahweh (Because Hindus have an omnipotent creator god, but place Brahman even higher than an omnipotent creator God because he is the Ultimate Reality).

What is rubbish? I don't really know any Christians that don't believe God is everything. I know if I'm to decide between a god blooming from the navel of another god, and one born of virgin birth, which happens now with IVF anyway, then the latter is more plausible.

apologize for this.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 1:32:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:29:30 AM, innomen wrote:
Geo, prayer isn't a Christmas list for Santa. If you look at prayer in that way, you will fail at it.

I never did look at it that way. The majority of my prayers were to glorify God with the Our Fathers and Hail Mary's. I said them every night. It was rare if I actually asked for something (like someone to get better).

How do you use prayer and what do you say to God (generally speaking)?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
RainbowBrite
Posts: 69
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8/10/2010 1:45:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:30:36 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't care if Christianity "works" for me. I care if it's true, and as it happens, Christianity is demonstrably false.
You do realize that Buddhism does have a code of ethics and conduct right? I didn't leave Christianity and come to Buddhism just so I could do whatever I want.
What works? Prayer? Belief in God?

Yeah I've studied at the Medicine Buddha near Santa Cruz. Prayer and belief works for me but only when I do it consistently. Do you think if Christianity was demonstrably false, I mean really proved false, not just according to a certain view of it, that there would be no more Christians? How do you suppose it has been shown false?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 1:52:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:45:06 AM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/10/2010 1:30:36 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I don't care if Christianity "works" for me. I care if it's true, and as it happens, Christianity is demonstrably false.
You do realize that Buddhism does have a code of ethics and conduct right? I didn't leave Christianity and come to Buddhism just so I could do whatever I want.
What works? Prayer? Belief in God?

Yeah I've studied at the Medicine Buddha near Santa Cruz.

Medicine Buddha is not the original Buddha. He's a Buddha but not the Buddha.

Prayer and belief works for me but only when I do it consistently. Do you think if Christianity was demonstrably false, I mean really proved false, not just according to a certain view of it, that there would be no more Christians? How do you suppose it has been shown false?

No, because Christians believe despite contradictory evidence. It has been proven that the earth is older than 6,000 years old, yet there are many people who still believe it right?

I can debate you on why Christianity is false, but I won't do it in this thread.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
RainbowBrite
Posts: 69
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8/10/2010 2:01:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:52:47 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Medicine Buddha is not the original Buddha. He's a Buddha but not the Buddha.

Yeah it's Tibetan, they have a throne for the Dalai Lama there when he visits.

No, because Christians believe despite contradictory evidence. It has been proven that the earth is older than 6,000 years old, yet there are many people who still believe it right? I can debate you on why Christianity is false, but I won't do it in this thread.

Like I said, you are talking about specific interpretations, I'm a theistic evolutionist.
InsertNameHere
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8/10/2010 2:03:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 2:01:55 AM, RainbowBrite wrote:

Like I said, you are talking about specific interpretations, I'm a theistic evolutionist.

Interesting. I am too. I have found specific verses in the Qur'an that can justify evolution.
GeoLaureate8
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8/10/2010 2:09:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 2:01:55 AM, RainbowBrite wrote:
At 8/10/2010 1:52:47 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Medicine Buddha is not the original Buddha. He's a Buddha but not the Buddha.

Yeah it's Tibetan, they have a throne for the Dalai Lama there when he visits.

No, because Christians believe despite contradictory evidence. It has been proven that the earth is older than 6,000 years old, yet there are many people who still believe it right? I can debate you on why Christianity is false, but I won't do it in this thread.

Like I said, you are talking about specific interpretations, I'm a theistic evolutionist.

No, I didn't say you are a Young Earth Creationist, I was just giving you an example of something that's been disproven yet people still believe it.

Just about all the core doctrines of Christianity can be refuted, not just the 6,000 year old Earth. Also, your notion of Theistic Evolution is even less plausible than Creationism. Genesis doesn't support your belief in Theistic Evolution, nor is it philosophically possible.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
RainbowBrite
Posts: 69
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8/10/2010 2:09:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 2:03:48 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Interesting. I am too. I have found specific verses in the Qur'an that can justify evolution.

I interpret Genesis that way. Basically in that the Serpent is evolved man, the so-called reptilian brain, and either we evolve away from Beast nature to God nature, or go extinct.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/10/2010 2:09:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:32:30 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/10/2010 1:29:30 AM, innomen wrote:
Geo, prayer isn't a Christmas list for Santa. If you look at prayer in that way, you will fail at it.

I never did look at it that way. The majority of my prayers were to glorify God with the Our Fathers and Hail Mary's. I said them every night. It was rare if I actually asked for something (like someone to get better).

How do you use prayer and what do you say to God (generally speaking)?

I ask for help, but never too specific, lots of gratitude, ask for forgiveness, ask to be better, peace in my thoughts, and rarely do i have rote prayers that someone else made up - well, that's not true, i do say the our father. I also pray in a precursor to meditation, and let prayer and meditation sort of intermingle. It's hard to explain. Meditation and prayer seem to go together perfectly for me and it does provide peace in my thinking just as a cardio work out does as well.