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Why are you atheist?

Blade-of-Truth
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5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*
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RuvDraba
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5/28/2015 9:45:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...
So, why are you an atheist?

Philosophical, moral and political reasons, BoT. I think the question of whether gods exist is actually not one question, but several mooshed together:

1) Was the universe created?
2) Are there metaphysical beings interested in what goes on?
3) If they were, would we owe them any heed or worship?
4) If we did, does any human knowledge or apprehension claim the authority to represent them?

My answers:

1) I doubt it, but can't know (agnostic)
2) I doubt it, but don't care (apatheistic)
3) Absolutely not (atheistic)
4) Absolutely not (atheistic)

I believe I can be a better human being -- wiser, kinder, more insightful -- without concerns about gods than with them; and I believe letting vain and ignorant people run off at the mouth about what gods have told them is harmful for human liberty, well-being and development.

I hope that may be useful.
Hayd
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5/28/2015 9:47:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, I didn't want to be like everyone else and just be what my parents were, so I went to find my own religion. Of course since there are thousands of religions, obviously only one of them could be true if any, so I did a lot of research, and found out that it is so unlikely, according to some theories, impossible for God(s) to exist so... atheism.
Blade-of-Truth
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5/28/2015 11:19:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:45:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...
So, why are you an atheist?

Philosophical, moral and political reasons, BoT. I think the question of whether gods exist is actually not one question, but several mooshed together:

1) Was the universe created?
2) Are there metaphysical beings interested in what goes on?
3) If they were, would we owe them any heed or worship?
4) If we did, does any human knowledge or apprehension claim the authority to represent them?

My answers:

1) I doubt it, but can't know (agnostic)
2) I doubt it, but don't care (apatheistic)
3) Absolutely not (atheistic)
4) Absolutely not (atheistic)

I believe I can be a better human being -- wiser, kinder, more insightful -- without concerns about gods than with them; and I believe letting vain and ignorant people run off at the mouth about what gods have told them is harmful for human liberty, well-being and development.

I hope that may be useful.

That was well said. Thank you for sharing your opinion!
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Blade-of-Truth
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5/28/2015 11:20:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:47:19 PM, Hayd wrote:
Well, I didn't want to be like everyone else and just be what my parents were, so I went to find my own religion. Of course since there are thousands of religions, obviously only one of them could be true if any, so I did a lot of research, and found out that it is so unlikely, according to some theories, impossible for God(s) to exist so... atheism.

That's interesting, but also pretty common amongst atheists.

So what were some of the religions that you explored and what religion does your family follow?
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Hayd
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5/28/2015 11:26:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 11:20:34 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:47:19 PM, Hayd wrote:
Well, I didn't want to be like everyone else and just be what my parents were, so I went to find my own religion. Of course since there are thousands of religions, obviously only one of them could be true if any, so I did a lot of research, and found out that it is so unlikely, according to some theories, impossible for God(s) to exist so... atheism.

That's interesting, but also pretty common amongst atheists.

So what were some of the religions that you explored and what religion does your family follow?

My mother is catholic, my father is agnostic and my sister is a secular humanist, I explored Catholicism, Christianity in General a lot, Buddhism, Taoism, Hindu, not Islam tho
Blade-of-Truth
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5/29/2015 12:22:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 11:26:41 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 5/28/2015 11:20:34 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:47:19 PM, Hayd wrote:
Well, I didn't want to be like everyone else and just be what my parents were, so I went to find my own religion. Of course since there are thousands of religions, obviously only one of them could be true if any, so I did a lot of research, and found out that it is so unlikely, according to some theories, impossible for God(s) to exist so... atheism.

That's interesting, but also pretty common amongst atheists.

So what were some of the religions that you explored and what religion does your family follow?

My mother is catholic, my father is agnostic and my sister is a secular humanist, I explored Catholicism, Christianity in General a lot, Buddhism, Taoism, Hindu, not Islam tho

That's interesting. I was raised with an agnostic father and a multi-denominational christian mother (I know it sounds weird but sometimes we'd go to a Presbyterian church and other times we'd go to a Baptist or Methodist church). I personally left the church around the age of 14 and explored every religion you've mentioned as well as a few others like Mormonism, Judaism, and new age spiritualism. Ironically, the only major religion I've yet to explore is also Islam.
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Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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5/29/2015 12:30:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

I don't claim a deistic god doesn't exist, but I think it is unlikely. As I see it, "God did it" is just another way of saying "I don't know". It is not an answer that provides us with any knowledge - it is basically pretend knowledge that is meaningless. I would rather just say "I don't know" and be real about it.

I believe revealed Gods do not exist for many reasons, but the main would be absense of evidence that it is reasonable to expect. Absense of evidence is evidence of absense, essentially. I also find flaws/contradictions in holy texts to be particularly damning.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Blade-of-Truth
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5/29/2015 12:42:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 12:30:53 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

I don't claim a deistic god doesn't exist, but I think it is unlikely. As I see it, "God did it" is just another way of saying "I don't know". It is not an answer that provides us with any knowledge - it is basically pretend knowledge that is meaningless. I would rather just say "I don't know" and be real about it.

I can fully agree with those sentiments. It's reminiscent of the "God of the gaps" perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence. Just because we don't fully understand or "know" something yet doesn't mean that it's attributable to *God*. At one point in time we used to praise *God* for rain... now we know that rain is a natural process of this world. I feel that as time goes on, God will be less and less attributable to currently unknown things or events.

I believe revealed Gods do not exist for many reasons, but the main would be absense of evidence that it is reasonable to expect. Absense of evidence is evidence of absense, essentially. I also find flaws/contradictions in holy texts to be particularly damning.

The absence of evidence is another common reason behind people choosing atheism, as well as the contradictions and flaws found in scripture. As it stands, it seems that we hold similar reasons.
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/29/2015 1:10:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

Lack of support for the premise. As a kid it wasn't pushed on me super hard, but it was taken as a given by everyone around me. I never understood why, given that (in my experience) nobody had a good reason or any evidence. Without attempting to attack folks, it smacked of BS and I have yet to find a reason reason to see it as anything but that (while recognizing that it may be TRUE--I'm addressing the reasons given, not the "real" truth-value; I generally subscribe to the Russel's Teapot brand).
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UndeniableReality
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5/29/2015 1:22:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

The simple answer is that I didn't hear about the concept of a god until after I was old enough to think somewhat lucidly.

I wasn't indoctrinated into a god belief (my parents are from a religion which is supposed to be against proselytizing, even to one's own children), and I've never seen or heard any convincing reasons to adopt one.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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5/29/2015 1:24:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 12:42:30 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 12:30:53 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

I don't claim a deistic god doesn't exist, but I think it is unlikely. As I see it, "God did it" is just another way of saying "I don't know". It is not an answer that provides us with any knowledge - it is basically pretend knowledge that is meaningless. I would rather just say "I don't know" and be real about it.

I can fully agree with those sentiments. It's reminiscent of the "God of the gaps" perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence. Just because we don't fully understand or "know" something yet doesn't mean that it's attributable to *God*. At one point in time we used to praise *God* for rain... now we know that rain is a natural process of this world. I feel that as time goes on, God will be less and less attributable to currently unknown things or events.

I believe revealed Gods do not exist for many reasons, but the main would be absense of evidence that it is reasonable to expect. Absense of evidence is evidence of absense, essentially. I also find flaws/contradictions in holy texts to be particularly damning.

The absence of evidence is another common reason behind people choosing atheism, as well as the contradictions and flaws found in scripture. As it stands, it seems that we hold similar reasons.

Excellent! It is nice to meet like minded people. Although, I wouldn't say I chose atheism. I suppose I did choose to be honest with myself about the realization that the deity I subscribed to was very probably false. Point being, it's not like I could reasonably choose to believe that I can fly or invisible unicorns are pink, and atheism was no different. Sorry, but I don't want any of our believing friends to get the wrong impression.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Blade-of-Truth
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5/29/2015 1:36:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 1:10:05 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

Lack of support for the premise. As a kid it wasn't pushed on me super hard, but it was taken as a given by everyone around me. I never understood why, given that (in my experience) nobody had a good reason or any evidence. Without attempting to attack folks, it smacked of BS and I have yet to find a reason reason to see it as anything but that (while recognizing that it may be TRUE--I'm addressing the reasons given, not the "real" truth-value; I generally subscribe to the Russel's Teapot brand).

That's interesting. For me it was pushed super hard, mostly because I attended a private Baptist school up until 8th grade. It was that pushing though that made me look closer to it and realize that it all just doesn't add up. I would have probably arrived at the same conclusion on my own eventually, but the pushing is what sped the process up, ironically.

I would also say that the lack of reason is why I've held the same position since I was 14 years old. I view myself solely as an agnostic (I think we had this discussion previously), so I too try not to judge the truth value since I ultimately subscribe to the belief that I simply don't know one way or the other. I'm not sure if I'm familiar with the Russel's Teapot brand that you mentioned though. Could you elaborate on that a little bit?
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Blade-of-Truth
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5/29/2015 1:38:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 1:22:27 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

The simple answer is that I didn't hear about the concept of a god until after I was old enough to think somewhat lucidly.

I wasn't indoctrinated into a god belief (my parents are from a religion which is supposed to be against proselytizing, even to one's own children), and I've never seen or heard any convincing reasons to adopt one.

Oh wow, okay, that's interesting. Most atheists are exposed to religion at a young age, and eventually drift away from it. It's not that common to chat with someone who wasn't exposed to it all until after they were old enough to form their own conclusions.

If you don't mind me asking, what religion do your parents follow? I'm not familiar with one that is against proselytizing.
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Blade-of-Truth
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5/29/2015 1:39:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 1:24:19 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/29/2015 12:42:30 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 12:30:53 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

I don't claim a deistic god doesn't exist, but I think it is unlikely. As I see it, "God did it" is just another way of saying "I don't know". It is not an answer that provides us with any knowledge - it is basically pretend knowledge that is meaningless. I would rather just say "I don't know" and be real about it.

I can fully agree with those sentiments. It's reminiscent of the "God of the gaps" perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence. Just because we don't fully understand or "know" something yet doesn't mean that it's attributable to *God*. At one point in time we used to praise *God* for rain... now we know that rain is a natural process of this world. I feel that as time goes on, God will be less and less attributable to currently unknown things or events.

I believe revealed Gods do not exist for many reasons, but the main would be absense of evidence that it is reasonable to expect. Absense of evidence is evidence of absense, essentially. I also find flaws/contradictions in holy texts to be particularly damning.

The absence of evidence is another common reason behind people choosing atheism, as well as the contradictions and flaws found in scripture. As it stands, it seems that we hold similar reasons.

Excellent! It is nice to meet like minded people. Although, I wouldn't say I chose atheism. I suppose I did choose to be honest with myself about the realization that the deity I subscribed to was very probably false. Point being, it's not like I could reasonably choose to believe that I can fly or invisible unicorns are pink, and atheism was no different. Sorry, but I don't want any of our believing friends to get the wrong impression.

That's cool. So, essentially it's not that you chose atheism, but rather that atheism is just what you naturally fall into based on your own personal views of it all?
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tejretics
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5/29/2015 1:43:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

Why not? I want theists to come and rebut -- I would love facing them about my beliefs ...
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
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5/29/2015 1:46:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

When applying principles of logical abduction to analyze philosophical, scientific, or metaphysical claims, we generally use the following criteria to determine the most likely explanation:

a) Occam's razor -- the explanation that has least assumptions or ad hoc hypotheses
b) Testability -- the proposition that makes testable, demonstrable statements
c) Background Knowledge -- the explanation that is most plausible when analyzed with general science and philosophy

So, as an atheist, I don't believe that a supernatural, intelligent creator of the universe exists physically or metaphysically. Since the world is dominated by people who are theists, religious people of varying faiths, Christianity, Islam, Judaism (as Christopher Hitchens called them, "the three great monotheisms"), Hinduism, and such theistic religions, they question the atheistic minority, "why not believe that God exists?"

The question is redirected. The answer would be, it is the theist that is believing and asserting that God exists, *not* the atheist. In Christopher Hitchens' words:

"I don't have to know, you do. You"re the one who says you know, not me."

It is the theist that makes the assertion, it is the theist that has to justify it. William of Ockham (1287-1347), the late English philosopher and theologian, a theist and Franciscan friar, who likely perished of the Black Death in a torturous way, created a principle of economy, called lex parsimoniae, or the Law of Parsimony, to, ironically, justify the supposed rationality of Christian theism. It is now called Occam's razor, and is ubiquitous in the fields of philosophy, science and theology. The razor posits that among a set of equally plausible explanations, the explanation with least assumptions, i.e. the simplest explanation, is the most likely one.

Using this principle, philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) created his celestial teapot analogy, where he said that if he were to suggest that a china teapot revolved around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and were to add it was so small it could not be seen by the most powerful telescopes, nobody would be able to disprove the assertion, as it would be unfalsifiable, yet the assertion would, nonetheless, be rejected as absurd, since the assumption is not *necessary*. That is intuitive processing of Occam's razor, without us realizing it.

Similarly, the idea of God's existence is not necessary, but since the explanation was believed as necessary for ages, it was not rejected as absurd. In today's world, scientific progress has deemed God's existence not necessary. This was probably first posited by Pierre-Simon, marquis de Laplace (1749-1827), when he presented his model of the solar system to Napoleon Bonaparte, then the French Emperor following the Revolution. After the presentation of the scientific model with no mention of God, Bonaparte asked Laplace where the figure of God fit into his mind-expanding calculations. And there came the cool, lofty, and considered response:

"Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypoth"se-l"."

Literally, Laplace didn't need that hypothesis. The hypothesis of God's existence.

The proposition that God exists is an unproven hypothesis. It is a proposition that is presented without evidence, an unnecessary assumption that adds to philosophical complexity. As Bertrand Russell correctly said, the philosophical burden of proof for a positive, unfalsifiable proposition lies with the one that affirms it, in this case the theist.

The conceivability of the supernatural metaphysically existing takes a leap of faith, or, as Ockham said, would be demonstrated by faith. And Ockham's own principle rejects faith directly. Christopher Hitchens (1949-2011), an outspoken atheist, used Ockham's principle and the teapot analogy to create an epistemological razor called Hitchens' razor, which states the onus probandi, the philosophical burden of proof, in a debate, lies with the one who makes the affirmation. In his book God Is Not Great, Hitchens formulates this razor:

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

The epistemological razor mentioned uses Ockham's principle of economy to dismiss the likelihood of God's existence. My position is that there are no exceptional arguments that deductively or inductively show God likely exists without being refuted.

The most common reason to believe in God is a personal religious experience, but such experiences are generally subjective, and, thus, explained in naturalistic manners. This is the primary reason for belief in God's existence.

Apologists pose different contentions to defend the existence of God, yet those contentions generally tend to be weak and can easily be refuted. Ultimately, my disbelief in God's existence is due to a careful analysis of the explanations using abductive reasoning.

As for criterion (b), metaphysical naturalism is primarily scientific, which in turn is inherently atheistic. Theistic propositions suggest an interventionist God, and deism suggests an intelligent creator. Neither of these statements are testable. The naturalistic explanations provided are purely scientific, and, thus, testable.

Criterion (c) is fulfilled in that science itself is inherently atheistic, as all scientific assertions have basis and are backed by evidence. There is no evidence in the positive claim, and, thus, background knowledge points to atheism. Furthermore, the paradoxical nature of a timeless mind or timeless causation supports the assertion that background knowledge is in favor of atheistic naturalism.

A summary of all the points I have presented would suggest that atheistic naturalism is a priori more likely than theistic or deistic explanations of the universe. This is why I am an atheist.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Blade-of-Truth
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5/29/2015 1:51:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 1:43:55 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

Why not? I want theists to come and rebut -- I would love facing them about my beliefs ...

Lol, well, the problem with this forum is that alot of times when atheists are discussing things - theists jump in and start preaching. I just didn't want that to happen in this thread since the discussion is based solely on atheism.

I'm sure you can find some theists to battle somewhere around here though... just start a thread titled, "Theists - come at me bro."
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Blade-of-Truth
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5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 1:46:51 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:25:37 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
I'd just like to hear why you believe that God doesn't exist. I don't see many people get asked this question alot, and most times it forces you to look within to find the answer...

So, why are you an atheist?

*Note, this thread is for atheists only. Please resist preaching or rebutting something that an atheist said in this thread, this is for atheists to discuss their own personal reasons.*

When applying principles of logical abduction to analyze philosophical, scientific, or metaphysical claims, we generally use the following criteria to determine the most likely explanation:

a) Occam's razor -- the explanation that has least assumptions or ad hoc hypotheses
b) Testability -- the proposition that makes testable, demonstrable statements
c) Background Knowledge -- the explanation that is most plausible when analyzed with general science and philosophy

So, as an atheist, I don't believe that a supernatural, intelligent creator of the universe exists physically or metaphysically. Since the world is dominated by people who are theists, religious people of varying faiths, Christianity, Islam, Judaism (as Christopher Hitchens called them, "the three great monotheisms"), Hinduism, and such theistic religions, they question the atheistic minority, "why not believe that God exists?"

The question is redirected. The answer would be, it is the theist that is believing and asserting that God exists, *not* the atheist. In Christopher Hitchens' words:

"I don't have to know, you do. You"re the one who says you know, not me."

It is the theist that makes the assertion, it is the theist that has to justify it. William of Ockham (1287-1347), the late English philosopher and theologian, a theist and Franciscan friar, who likely perished of the Black Death in a torturous way, created a principle of economy, called lex parsimoniae, or the Law of Parsimony, to, ironically, justify the supposed rationality of Christian theism. It is now called Occam's razor, and is ubiquitous in the fields of philosophy, science and theology. The razor posits that among a set of equally plausible explanations, the explanation with least assumptions, i.e. the simplest explanation, is the most likely one.

Using this principle, philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) created his celestial teapot analogy, where he said that if he were to suggest that a china teapot revolved around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and were to add it was so small it could not be seen by the most powerful telescopes, nobody would be able to disprove the assertion, as it would be unfalsifiable, yet the assertion would, nonetheless, be rejected as absurd, since the assumption is not *necessary*. That is intuitive processing of Occam's razor, without us realizing it.

Similarly, the idea of God's existence is not necessary, but since the explanation was believed as necessary for ages, it was not rejected as absurd. In today's world, scientific progress has deemed God's existence not necessary. This was probably first posited by Pierre-Simon, marquis de Laplace (1749-1827), when he presented his model of the solar system to Napoleon Bonaparte, then the French Emperor following the Revolution. After the presentation of the scientific model with no mention of God, Bonaparte asked Laplace where the figure of God fit into his mind-expanding calculations. And there came the cool, lofty, and considered response:

"Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypoth"se-l"."

Literally, Laplace didn't need that hypothesis. The hypothesis of God's existence.

The proposition that God exists is an unproven hypothesis. It is a proposition that is presented without evidence, an unnecessary assumption that adds to philosophical complexity. As Bertrand Russell correctly said, the philosophical burden of proof for a positive, unfalsifiable proposition lies with the one that affirms it, in this case the theist.

The conceivability of the supernatural metaphysically existing takes a leap of faith, or, as Ockham said, would be demonstrated by faith. And Ockham's own principle rejects faith directly. Christopher Hitchens (1949-2011), an outspoken atheist, used Ockham's principle and the teapot analogy to create an epistemological razor called Hitchens' razor, which states the onus probandi, the philosophical burden of proof, in a debate, lies with the one who makes the affirmation. In his book God Is Not Great, Hitchens formulates this razor:


What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

The epistemological razor mentioned uses Ockham's principle of economy to dismiss the likelihood of God's existence. My position is that there are no exceptional arguments that deductively or inductively show God likely exists without being refuted.

The most common reason to believe in God is a personal religious experience, but such experiences are generally subjective, and, thus, explained in naturalistic manners. This is the primary reason for belief in God's existence.

Apologists pose different contentions to defend the existence of God, yet those contentions generally tend to be weak and can easily be refuted. Ultimately, my disbelief in God's existence is due to a careful analysis of the explanations using abductive reasoning.

As for criterion (b), metaphysical naturalism is primarily scientific, which in turn is inherently atheistic. Theistic propositions suggest an interventionist God, and deism suggests an intelligent creator. Neither of these statements are testable. The naturalistic explanations provided are purely scientific, and, thus, testable.

Criterion (c) is fulfilled in that science itself is inherently atheistic, as all scientific assertions have basis and are backed by evidence. There is no evidence in the positive claim, and, thus, background knowledge points to atheism. Furthermore, the paradoxical nature of a timeless mind or timeless causation supports the assertion that background knowledge is in favor of atheistic naturalism.

A summary of all the points I have presented would suggest that atheistic naturalism is a priori more likely than theistic or deistic explanations of the universe. This is why I am an atheist.

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?
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5/29/2015 2:12:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 1:48:13 AM, Wylted wrote:
Does it count as an atheist, if I think I'm God?

Well, do you believe in yourself? If you do, then you'd be a theist, lol.

I think we're all creator gods in our own way, but that's a discussion for another day.
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5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Am I agnostic about a teapot between Earth and Mars? No, I reject it. The same with God.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
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5/29/2015 2:21:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Okay, fair point. I used to be an agnostic, but have recently found myself leaning more towards the atheist camp. I still dislike using the term agnostic atheist because I view it as contradictory, but in terms of which side I lean towards the most then yes - I'm an agnostic atheist as well.
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5/29/2015 2:23:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:21:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Okay, fair point. I used to be an agnostic, but have recently found myself leaning more towards the atheist camp. I still dislike using the term agnostic atheist because I view it as contradictory, but in terms of which side I lean towards the most then yes - I'm an agnostic atheist as well.

Strong atheism is unsound, if you ask me. Strong atheism is almost as irrational as theism, because it's making a positive assertion.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
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5/29/2015 2:27:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:23:39 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:21:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Okay, fair point. I used to be an agnostic, but have recently found myself leaning more towards the atheist camp. I still dislike using the term agnostic atheist because I view it as contradictory, but in terms of which side I lean towards the most then yes - I'm an agnostic atheist as well.

Strong atheism is unsound, if you ask me. Strong atheism is almost as irrational as theism, because it's making a positive assertion.

That's why I view it as contradictory. I suppose if anything, I view strong atheism and agnosticism to be contradictory. I never before considered the distinction between strong atheism vs. weak (?) atheism.
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5/29/2015 2:28:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:27:13 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:23:39 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:21:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Okay, fair point. I used to be an agnostic, but have recently found myself leaning more towards the atheist camp. I still dislike using the term agnostic atheist because I view it as contradictory, but in terms of which side I lean towards the most then yes - I'm an agnostic atheist as well.

Strong atheism is unsound, if you ask me. Strong atheism is almost as irrational as theism, because it's making a positive assertion.

That's why I view it as contradictory. I suppose if anything, I view strong atheism and agnosticism to be contradictory. I never before considered the distinction between strong atheism vs. weak (?) atheism.

You know how vi_spex keeps saying "atheism=belief"? He's partially right.

Strong atheism -- belief that there is no God
Weak atheism -- lack of belief in God
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
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5/29/2015 2:33:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:28:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:27:13 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:23:39 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:21:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Okay, fair point. I used to be an agnostic, but have recently found myself leaning more towards the atheist camp. I still dislike using the term agnostic atheist because I view it as contradictory, but in terms of which side I lean towards the most then yes - I'm an agnostic atheist as well.

Strong atheism is unsound, if you ask me. Strong atheism is almost as irrational as theism, because it's making a positive assertion.

That's why I view it as contradictory. I suppose if anything, I view strong atheism and agnosticism to be contradictory. I never before considered the distinction between strong atheism vs. weak (?) atheism.

You know how vi_spex keeps saying "atheism=belief"? He's partially right.

Strong atheism -- belief that there is no God
Weak atheism -- lack of belief in God

That's a good distinction. I would certainly fall into the weak atheism camp. Speaking of vi_spex though, be on the lookout for a special collaboration between us two at some point in the near future :)
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5/29/2015 2:34:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:33:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:28:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:27:13 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:23:39 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:21:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Okay, fair point. I used to be an agnostic, but have recently found myself leaning more towards the atheist camp. I still dislike using the term agnostic atheist because I view it as contradictory, but in terms of which side I lean towards the most then yes - I'm an agnostic atheist as well.

Strong atheism is unsound, if you ask me. Strong atheism is almost as irrational as theism, because it's making a positive assertion.

That's why I view it as contradictory. I suppose if anything, I view strong atheism and agnosticism to be contradictory. I never before considered the distinction between strong atheism vs. weak (?) atheism.

You know how vi_spex keeps saying "atheism=belief"? He's partially right.

Strong atheism -- belief that there is no God
Weak atheism -- lack of belief in God

That's a good distinction. I would certainly fall into the weak atheism camp. Speaking of vi_spex though, be on the lookout for a special collaboration between us two at some point in the near future :)

vi_spex is a weak atheist. He just doesn't know it yet.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
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5/29/2015 2:37:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:34:47 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:33:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:28:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:27:13 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:23:39 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:21:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Okay, fair point. I used to be an agnostic, but have recently found myself leaning more towards the atheist camp. I still dislike using the term agnostic atheist because I view it as contradictory, but in terms of which side I lean towards the most then yes - I'm an agnostic atheist as well.

Strong atheism is unsound, if you ask me. Strong atheism is almost as irrational as theism, because it's making a positive assertion.

That's why I view it as contradictory. I suppose if anything, I view strong atheism and agnosticism to be contradictory. I never before considered the distinction between strong atheism vs. weak (?) atheism.

You know how vi_spex keeps saying "atheism=belief"? He's partially right.

Strong atheism -- belief that there is no God
Weak atheism -- lack of belief in God

That's a good distinction. I would certainly fall into the weak atheism camp. Speaking of vi_spex though, be on the lookout for a special collaboration between us two at some point in the near future :)

vi_spex is a weak atheist. He just doesn't know it yet.

I wasn't even aware that he's claimed otherwise. I don't think his religious views have ever come up in our own personal discussions though, so I wouldn't really know either way.
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5/29/2015 2:38:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/29/2015 2:37:24 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:34:47 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:33:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:28:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:27:13 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:23:39 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:21:53 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:12:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/29/2015 2:09:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

Well bravo on such a brilliant and thorough explanation! I think this was an excellent summation of your reasoning and think you have some firm ground beneath you.

At this point, I'm left wondering only one thing. Why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic?

I believe the non-existence of God is the more likely explanation, as opposed to God's existence, as Occam's razor, testability and background knowledge signify. I can't be a perfect agnostic about it; I'm a weak atheist, or agnostic atheist.

Okay, fair point. I used to be an agnostic, but have recently found myself leaning more towards the atheist camp. I still dislike using the term agnostic atheist because I view it as contradictory, but in terms of which side I lean towards the most then yes - I'm an agnostic atheist as well.

Strong atheism is unsound, if you ask me. Strong atheism is almost as irrational as theism, because it's making a positive assertion.

That's why I view it as contradictory. I suppose if anything, I view strong atheism and agnosticism to be contradictory. I never before considered the distinction between strong atheism vs. weak (?) atheism.

You know how vi_spex keeps saying "atheism=belief"? He's partially right.

Strong atheism -- belief that there is no God
Weak atheism -- lack of belief in God

That's a good distinction. I would certainly fall into the weak atheism camp. Speaking of vi_spex though, be on the lookout for a special collaboration between us two at some point in the near future :)

vi_spex is a weak atheist. He just doesn't know it yet.

I wasn't even aware that he's claimed otherwise. I don't think his religious views have ever come up in our own personal discussions though, so I wouldn't really know either way.

He says he is nonreligious and a nonbeliever, but hates the label of "atheist" because it in itself is a *belief*, so is virtually religious.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass