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Would higher intelligence want immortality

Outplayz
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6/4/2015 3:06:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
...or would it not want to escape it?

I'll explain what i mean, but just remember not to wordplay (go with the flow and take the words in the context of the idea). I'll be describing this mainly in analogies. It's a thought that has been interesting to me, so i'd like to get some comments and critiques to see where this can go.

I look at this in a video game/movie type of analogy. The movie one is easier to explain so i'll start with this. Let's say you watch a 2 hour movie, and you have an average of 75 years to live. Now let's say, you love this movie and are lost in it for 2 hours. Considering you have an average of 75 years to live and the movie is 2 hours; you may get lost in this movie for a total of 10 hours of your life if you watch it 10 more times. So for 10 hrs of your entire life you were in another "realm." Now let's say, this is the only movie you are allowed to watch. Furthermore, let's say this is the only means of entertainment allowed your whole life. Would this not be hell? The repetition and being stuck in one place? Even though you loved this movie, being stuck with it would slowly turn to...well, a really frightening state.

Now, if we look at immortality. Let's say this immortal source is you; everyone is their own immortal (source). Wouldn't it be a more tortures hell if you were immortal and stuck in one place? Let's say you get your virgins, family, love, happiness, so on so on in your source state, but this is for infinity. It would be like watching the same movie over and over again, but with no escape. I know i'm generalizing in my opinion so far. Who knows, someone might like being in their source state stuck in one place they get all of their desires met ... but, this is where intelligence comes into play; would they really? After how many billions of years would you be able to hold your sanity? let's again say you have 75 years to live; then you go back to your source. Wouldn't this be similar to the movie analogy? You "pick" (i am making a leap in logic) a world to stay in for "x" amount of years. You change the movie once you have passed on to your source again.

Bottom line, why would you want to stay as your source? One, i think you will understand it is 'hell' to stay that way right when you get to it, and two, even if you stuck it out for a "x" amount of years; you'd eventually want change. Wouldn't it be logical to think an immortal intelligence would create "worlds" entirely so it doesn't go insane? Wouldn't the irony be that we are actually afraid of immortality, not death? Can i not conclude death would be a logical creation of an immortal source?

My ideas, even though i use religious words, have no affiliation with a religion. This is just a thought i have been having and working on for awhile. I will stop here for now so i can read some opinions. Please keep an open mind when you critique this, i want to learn from your responses. Thank you.
bulproof
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6/4/2015 4:24:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I can only conclude that those who seek immortality have never considered it's consequences.
Boredom times infinity.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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6/4/2015 6:20:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If immortality means changing basic states of being it won't be boring. It means learning something new in a new environment and new self-awareness. We don't know what to really expect in the World to Come that lies beyond mortal death and that's a good thing. And it may work that way for another existence beyond that world to come, for infinity, each a stage of preparation for the next higher level. No boredom, only life-spans of each stage.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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6/4/2015 6:21:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:24:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I can only conclude that those who seek immortality have never considered it's consequences.
Boredom times infinity.

I agree.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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6/4/2015 9:09:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 6:20:32 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
If immortality means changing basic states of being it won't be boring. It means learning something new in a new environment and new self-awareness. We don't know what to really expect in the World to Come that lies beyond mortal death and that's a good thing. And it may work that way for another existence beyond that world to come, for infinity, each a stage of preparation for the next higher level. No boredom, only life-spans of each stage.

How much do you remember of your previous existence?

Nothing, I hear you say? Hmmm. Not learning anything, are we?
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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6/4/2015 11:13:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
being of "higher intelligence" as I don't get LOST in fantasy and fiction as I AM Reality and the Truth that those of the many try and deny within their superstitious based realities.

Now if I was to play make believe and pretend reality along with you kids.

the Highlander series is a good example.

just don't loose your head as there can be only one...the BIG question is

ONE what?

I know the answer as I AM most overly wonderful and then some.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/4/2015 11:40:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 11:13:39 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
being of "higher intelligence" as I don't get LOST in fantasy and fiction as I AM Reality and the Truth that those of the many try and deny within their superstitious based realities.

Now if I was to play make believe and pretend reality along with you kids.

the Highlander series is a good example.
There can be only one.
Please don't diss the highlander.
Or I will come looking for your head.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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6/4/2015 11:49:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 11:40:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:13:39 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
being of "higher intelligence" as I don't get LOST in fantasy and fiction as I AM Reality and the Truth that those of the many try and deny within their superstitious based realities.

Now if I was to play make believe and pretend reality along with you kids.

the Highlander series is a good example.
There can be only one.
Please don't diss the highlander.
Or I will come looking for your head.

EE: I have the whole series on tape and most of the movies. I enjoy watching recorded media. I just watch and listen a bit differently then most.

I like the view from behind the camera and I see a script, actors, props and locations.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/4/2015 11:52:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 11:49:03 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:40:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:13:39 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
being of "higher intelligence" as I don't get LOST in fantasy and fiction as I AM Reality and the Truth that those of the many try and deny within their superstitious based realities.

Now if I was to play make believe and pretend reality along with you kids.

the Highlander series is a good example.
There can be only one.
Please don't diss the highlander.
Or I will come looking for your head.

EE: I have the whole series on tape and most of the movies. I enjoy watching recorded media. I just watch and listen a bit differently then most.

I like the view from behind the camera and I see a script, actors, props and locations.

I think you mean than.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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6/4/2015 11:53:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
don't want to leave out the wardrobe department as that is a different area then props.

I enjoy watching others play dress up make believe and pretend. Been watching the BIG show all my Life.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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6/4/2015 12:06:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 11:52:42 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:49:03 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:40:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:13:39 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
being of "higher intelligence" as I don't get LOST in fantasy and fiction as I AM Reality and the Truth that those of the many try and deny within their superstitious based realities.

Now if I was to play make believe and pretend reality along with you kids.

the Highlander series is a good example.
There can be only one.
Please don't diss the highlander.
Or I will come looking for your head.

EE: I have the whole series on tape and most of the movies. I enjoy watching recorded media. I just watch and listen a bit differently then most.

I like the view from behind the camera and I see a script, actors, props and locations.

I think you mean than.

EE: Not really as it's just the concept of TIME that creates a difference.

p.s. Keep a eye out for the "2s" as I like playing with them. To, too, two and of coarse the tooo's and their offspring.

You have a lot to learn if you want to try and nit pick words and meanings as I like words and their MANY meanings. I have a very large collection of dictionaries.

What I find most interesting about dictionaries is that you can pick most any word and follow it's definitions and you will end up back where you started with NO CLEAR description of what the WORDS REALLY mean.

That is why we have LAW dictionaries. They are far less VAGUE as you always end up with "A" is correct & "A" is NOT correct. It is up to the judge of the man made laws to decide if you are a good "A" or a bad "A".
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/4/2015 12:18:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 11:53:41 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
don't want to leave out the wardrobe department as that is a different area then props.

I enjoy watching others play dress up make believe and pretend. Been watching the BIG show all my Life.

I think you mean "than"
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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6/4/2015 12:49:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 12:18:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:53:41 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
don't want to leave out the wardrobe department as that is a different area then props.

I enjoy watching others play dress up make believe and pretend. Been watching the BIG show all my Life.

I think you mean "than"

EE: No, that is YOUR personal choice of the words. I personally use them interchangeable as the only REAL difference is the TIME factor and I don't pay much mind to the TIME TRAP.

So we are both correct and we are also both wrong.

I understand that concept.

Do you?
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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6/4/2015 12:53:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 12:49:59 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 6/4/2015 12:18:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:53:41 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
don't want to leave out the wardrobe department as that is a different area then props.

I enjoy watching others play dress up make believe and pretend. Been watching the BIG show all my Life.

I think you mean "than"

EE: No, that is YOUR personal choice of the words. I personally use them interchangeable as the only REAL difference is the TIME factor and I don't pay much mind to the TIME TRAP.

So we are both correct and we are also both wrong.

I understand that concept.

Do you?

Then and than are not related, especially by time.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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6/4/2015 1:07:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 12:53:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 12:49:59 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 6/4/2015 12:18:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:53:41 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
don't want to leave out the wardrobe department as that is a different area then props.

I enjoy watching others play dress up make believe and pretend. Been watching the BIG show all my Life.

I think you mean "than"

EE: No, that is YOUR personal choice of the words. I personally use them interchangeable as the only REAL difference is the TIME factor and I don't pay much mind to the TIME TRAP.

So we are both correct and we are also both wrong.

I understand that concept.

Do you?

Then and than are not related, especially by time.

EE: I find what you wrote interesting as this is what I view it as saying.

Then and than are not related, especially because time is mostly a illusion.

You are caught up in the TIME TRAP as are most ALL.

The words then and than are ONLY different because of the TIME concepts that enslave and trap those that follow TIME as if it was something that could be MEASURED and contained.

There I gave you something with a little mechanically separated meat in it for you to try and pick on.

I AM not so BAD as I try and give ALL something to pick on me about if they are having a TIME of it coming up with something that seems to give them a edge.

I will play along with you for a spell and if you get in a bind larger then you can handle I will give you a way out so that you can still play the BIG shot around here.

I don't mind a bit as I can afford it as I AM debt free in all areas.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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6/4/2015 10:50:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:24:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I can only conclude that those who seek immortality have never considered it's consequences.
Boredom times infinity.

I agree. The implications are interesting, yet not many think about it. You can add to boredom. I think that is the first step. However, the end result is more than just boredom ... it is fear.

Imagine if you died and all the sudden became immortal in the universe. You can see the world ...then, you realize you are all alone, but you know everything. All alone is huge...even if you were pure knowledge, it is still frightening. You would immediately want to escape. There is irony in "ignorance is bliss" considering immortality.
Outplayz
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6/4/2015 11:02:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
": At 6/4/2015 6:20:32 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
If immortality means changing basic states of being it won't be boring. It means learning something new in a new environment and new self-awareness. We don't know what to really expect in the World to Come that lies beyond mortal death and that's a good thing. And it may work that way for another existence beyond that world to come, for infinity, each a stage of preparation for the next higher level. No boredom, only life-spans of each stage."

I think what you just said is dead on. I think this would be the most logical process of an immortal intelligence. Why would it want to stay immortal? ... that is frightening. Let's say every identity on earth became one consciousness (a god analogy i guess). Then what? For how many gazillions of years can it stay that way ... it is madness. I think this intelligence has gotten to a point were it cannot do that anymore. Yeah, in the beginning it may have. lol man i can't go with the whole theory i have right now bc i would write way too much. But, i conclude that an intelligent source that is immortal would create death. Death may be gloom but beyond the veil it holds beautiful purpose.

The process you mention is actually something i have in my theory. However, i think we do go back to our source state (immortal). From that state we choose to do whatever... this reality is to make that "whatever" more interesting. I think we are here to learn from other "immortals" ... and other perks that this reality offers. I mentioned my video game analogy ... This analogy basically concludes that there are many worlds we can live ... it just depends which character we want to be, which game mode we want to play, what perks we want to use...etc.
Outplayz
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6/4/2015 11:37:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
": How much do you remember of your previous existence?

Nothing, I hear you say? Hmmm. Not learning anything, are we?"

Don't get me wrong, i understand your post. I understand what you mean, so okay ... one theory that ends in nothingness ... I am not undermining you, but i'm bored of this theory.

I suggest that instead of looking for the inconsistencies and attacking them ... think of how you can add to them. I did in my reply to this user. I believe you can make sense of it. In this reality, the purpose is to have a human experience. You cannot have that if you remembered everything. This reality is exactly how it is suppose to be.

I will use an analogy ... a cartoon analogy. If in your previous life you were Mickey Moose, would you want to remember that? You'd probably be in a mental ward ... which is slightly interesting to me bc studies show only humans have schizophrenia. Anyways, the purpose of this life is to have a human experience. I think the purpose of realities are to escape immortality; to have fun with it.

So no, i don't remember my previous life ... or do i? Could falling in love be a hint, could Stan Lee's imagination be a hint, could everything i feel intuitively be a hint, etc? Honestly, I don't know. But, i am working on it.

Hints of our spirituality is all around us (including people). I cannot call myself religious, bc i believe in parts of all. I cannot call myself spiritual, bc it has turned into a self help guide. I cannot call myself agnostic, bc it feels lazy. Finally, i cannot call myself atheist and i can at the same time ...which contradicts.

I believe in all of them, i am all of them combined. I seek spiritual truth while not believing everything as supernatural. I am not sure if there is something more, but i have intuitive feeling that there is. And, i look for evidence to prove what i feel with an atheist's eye for detail.

We are still infants compared to infinity. We are but a brushstroke on a platform trying to create a picture. For the picture to move forward, so do we. We have to stop living in the past, for our purpose is to move forward. Really my point is: Do we even stop to ponder the implications of immortality? Forever is a long time; hinting to the purpose of our reality. Hinting to what we truly are; all "powerful," but forgetting is paradise ... we are in a paradise now.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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6/5/2015 12:15:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 11:37:37 PM, Outplayz wrote:
": How much do you remember of your previous existence?

Nothing, I hear you say? Hmmm. Not learning anything, are we?"

Don't get me wrong, i understand your post. I understand what you mean, so okay ... one theory that ends in nothingness ... I am not undermining you, but i'm bored of this theory.

I suggest that instead of looking for the inconsistencies and attacking them ... think of how you can add to them. I did in my reply to this user. I believe you can make sense of it. In this reality, the purpose is to have a human experience. You cannot have that if you remembered everything. This reality is exactly how it is suppose to be.

I will use an analogy ... a cartoon analogy. If in your previous life you were Mickey Moose, would you want to remember that? You'd probably be in a mental ward ... which is slightly interesting to me bc studies show only humans have schizophrenia. Anyways, the purpose of this life is to have a human experience. I think the purpose of realities are to escape immortality; to have fun with it.

So no, i don't remember my previous life ... or do i? Could falling in love be a hint, could Stan Lee's imagination be a hint, could everything i feel intuitively be a hint, etc? Honestly, I don't know. But, i am working on it.

Hints of our spirituality is all around us (including people). I cannot call myself religious, bc i believe in parts of all. I cannot call myself spiritual, bc it has turned into a self help guide. I cannot call myself agnostic, bc it feels lazy. Finally, i cannot call myself atheist and i can at the same time ...which contradicts.

I believe in all of them, i am all of them combined. I seek spiritual truth while not believing everything as supernatural. I am not sure if there is something more, but i have intuitive feeling that there is. And, i look for evidence to prove what i feel with an atheist's eye for detail.

We are still infants compared to infinity. We are but a brushstroke on a platform trying to create a picture. For the picture to move forward, so do we. We have to stop living in the past, for our purpose is to move forward. Really my point is: Do we even stop to ponder the implications of immortality? Forever is a long time; hinting to the purpose of our reality. Hinting to what we truly are; all "powerful," but forgetting is paradise ... we are in a paradise now.

Makes perfect sense. You have an unlimited number of immortal beings (who arose in some unspecified, magical way) who collectively choose to zero themselves out and randomly transfer their 'souls' to a primitive primate species on a rocky planet. This is a 'learning experience' for them to alleviate the boredom of an infinite life. Human beings are just avatars for these holiday excursioners. (Never mind all the other animal species - they are allowed to develop their own brains). To make the experience more authentic, there is no escape other than death. If the holidaymaker happens to be aborted or dies young, there is no money back guarantee. Yep, makes perfect sense. This is exactly what I would do if I was an immortal being - slum it on some nondescript backward little planet. Lol.

Dude, you need a reality check. Humans are nothing special in the animal kingdom. We have bigger brains, that is it. Whilst the development of consciousness is no small thing, don't try to pretend we are anything other than an intelligent animal. Like all other animals we breed, nurture our young, mature and then we die a final death. Musings about an 'after-life' are just wishful thinking from fearful people who can't face the prospect of their own mortality. Your dog doesn't have an after-life. Neither do you.
bulproof
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6/5/2015 1:27:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 1:07:59 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 6/4/2015 12:53:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 12:49:59 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 6/4/2015 12:18:20 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/4/2015 11:53:41 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
don't want to leave out the wardrobe department as that is a different area then props.

I enjoy watching others play dress up make believe and pretend. Been watching the BIG show all my Life.

I think you mean "than"

EE: No, that is YOUR personal choice of the words. I personally use them interchangeable as the only REAL difference is the TIME factor and I don't pay much mind to the TIME TRAP.

So we are both correct and we are also both wrong.

I understand that concept.

Do you?

Then and than are not related, especially by time.

EE: I find what you wrote interesting as this is what I view it as saying.

Then and than are not related, especially because time is mostly a illusion.

You are caught up in the TIME TRAP as are most ALL.

The words then and than are ONLY different because of the TIME concepts that enslave and trap those that follow TIME as if it was something that could be MEASURED and contained.

There I gave you something with a little mechanically separated meat in it for you to try and pick on.

I AM not so BAD as I try and give ALL something to pick on me about if they are having a TIME of it coming up with something that seems to give them a edge.

I will play along with you for a spell and if you get in a bind larger then you can handle I will give you a way out so that you can still play the BIG shot around here.

I don't mind a bit as I can afford it as I AM debt free in all areas.

I hope this helps
http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com...
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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6/5/2015 11:46:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The point that you are ignoring is that it makes little difference but to those that are anal simply put.

You are giving Skyangel a great show I'm sure as she knows how I play with the BIG heads and the wanna bees such as yourself.

I will agree with what ever pleases you on the then and than as it seems that programing is important too you.

I'm well aware of the information in your link just as I'm well aware that most people yourself included prefer playing their little games with uppercase and lower case Gods/gods and also their sci-fi theories and other make believe and pretend.

The IMPORTAINT point that you are IGNORING is that I don't do brainwashed normal programing and follow the popular propaganda of the times.

I leave such nonsense two you and the others that require outside sources 2 do their thinking for them.

I'm waiting for you to bring up my comment on time not being measurable but within illusion. Or did you miss those issues of scienterrific studies?

Are you SURE you want to lock horns with a god?

You have already lost before you started.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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6/5/2015 6:51:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
" : Makes perfect sense. You have an unlimited number of immortal beings (who arose in some unspecified, magical way) who collectively choose to zero themselves out and randomly transfer their 'souls' to a primitive primate species on a rocky planet. This is a 'learning experience' for them to alleviate the boredom of an infinite life. Human beings are just avatars for these holiday excursioners. (Never mind all the other animal species - they are allowed to develop their own brains). To make the experience more authentic, there is no escape other than death. If the holidaymaker happens to be aborted or dies young, there is no money back guarantee. Yep, makes perfect sense. This is exactly what I would do if I was an immortal being - slum it on some nondescript backward little planet. Lol.

Dude, you need a reality check. Humans are nothing special in the animal kingdom. We have bigger brains, that is it. Whilst the development of consciousness is no small thing, don't try to pretend we are anything other than an intelligent animal. Like all other animals we breed, nurture our young, mature and then we die a final death. Musings about an 'after-life' are just wishful thinking from fearful people who can't face the prospect of their own mortality. Your dog doesn't have an after-life. Neither do you."

I don't know why you look at this planet so gloom. I don't know you, vice versa. You are making what i said insignificant. You want to belittle my idea, for some reason. I say okay, have at it; but don't but words in my mouth or pretend you know what i am saying. I've only giving you an idea through analogy. I have yet to explain what i fully mean. Quite honestly, my idea is chaos. it excepts everyone for what they are.

If you look at the source being me, it is much different than you. I don't know what your purpose is coming here; you have to figure that out. Ultimately, i think you came here. In the end, you will leave with something. An atheist's source would be the most interesting ... you have a broad platform. Yet, it could be frightening. I don't know how scared you are about the subject. You may be living in fear everyday. You may be depressed everyday. I don't know you. All i know is, you're a different source than me and others; or your the same as some. What i do know, it's up to me to except your belief or look down on it. If you do not want to be in my world, then you are insignificant in my eyes ... yes, i look down on you. I don't need you. All i need is what i am seeking, and to follow the rules to get there.

Don't pretend you have the answers ... you don't. Even i am theorizing. Yet, i look at this with an atheist's eye for detail. One: i have excepted that this can be my only life. I get that theory and am not afraid of it. How can i be? I am awake now and when i go ... i will be asleep with no dreams ... in darkness, like before my birth. If i am not aware, why be afraid? I will just live it up while i am awake. However, i'm too open-minded to except this as the only answer. I theorize with a friend that is in the field of neuroscience all the time. I get it ... the brain is quite important. Without it, hmm.

However, i am not going to stop there. I am pushing forward bc there is something more. This is subjective bc it is my intuitive feeling ... but, why let it go? If an artist gave up, they would never be remembered through the years. If a musician gave up, we wouldn't be serenaded with its beauty. Everyone has there single/multiple purpose. It is what you choose to be ... i can't change you bc you're exactly you.

I theorize, if we sleep (with dreams) what that would mean. I can't generalize this theory bc it's different for everyone. Not everyone has the same dreams; "paradise." It would be different. Also, you talk about how we are all animals. I agree. We live in this reality right now, and all of its rules are absolute. Were we can get with these rules, who knows? Maybe we will have a star wars type future ... idk, i am not psychic. What i am purposing is that this is just one reality we can "visit." Infant dying at the age of 0 ...would be gone without any knowledge of this world. So? This source can either pick to come back or stay as its source or go somewhere else.

The source. I am theorizing it's immortal, intelligent, self aware, conscious; it would pick realities like this. Yet, why not other realities like a marvels universe? But wait, would i have known this universe by myself without living now? Maybe, but if not ... i have learned of something amazing, in my eyes. This might be hell to some, or some might want to pick a dark lord ... that is their source, not mine, not others, but can be some others. Everyone is different, different source, different "paradise." But there differences can be the same.

" unlimited number of immortal beings " I never said that. There could be, or there could be a set amount. For example: What if everyone you love becomes one identity with you... Then what? You will know everyone, yet you will lose your single identity. Still, then what? for how many years would you want to stay that way. Let's say if every identity became one consciousness (a god analogy). Again, then what? My question is why would this source want to stay that way? It would be logical to release every identity into a world; Escape it's immortality. Knowing everything, being pure knowledge, being everyone is frightening if you are stuck that way. Death is a tool. This world isn't as insignificant as you try to make it.
Skyangel
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6/5/2015 6:54:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 11:46:43 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
The point that you are ignoring is that it makes little difference but to those that are anal simply put.

You are giving Skyangel a great show I'm sure as she knows how I play with the BIG heads and the wanna bees such as yourself.

I will agree with what ever pleases you on the then and than as it seems that programing is important too you.

I'm well aware of the information in your link just as I'm well aware that most people yourself included prefer playing their little games with uppercase and lower case Gods/gods and also their sci-fi theories and other make believe and pretend.

The IMPORTAINT point that you are IGNORING is that I don't do brainwashed normal programing and follow the popular propaganda of the times.

I leave such nonsense two you and the others that require outside sources 2 do their thinking for them.

I'm waiting for you to bring up my comment on time not being measurable but within illusion. Or did you miss those issues of scienterrific studies?

Are you SURE you want to lock horns with a god?

You have already lost before you started.

The big head nit pickers enjoy being pedantic because it makes them feel more correct and knowledgeable than others.
They enjoy categorizing things into boxes and any time they see someone playing with words and apparently using the "wrong" ones in their opinion, it annoys their pedantic nature. They cannot help but try to make corrections. They get so involved and distracted with grammar and spelling and their own thoughts that they miss the whole message of what has been written and seem incapable of putting themselves into the shoes or minds of those who are trying to present a different view point.
It is quite comical.

All are right in their own eyes. Many are also wrong in the eyes of others. The few who others judge as right are the few who agree with them.
Skyangel
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6/5/2015 7:17:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 3:06:25 AM, Outplayz wrote:
...or would it not want to escape it?

I look at this in a video game/movie type of analogy. The movie one is easier to explain so i'll start with this. Let's say you watch a 2 hour movie, and you have an average of 75 years to live. Now let's say, you love this movie and are lost in it for 2 hours. Considering you have an average of 75 years to live and the movie is 2 hours; you may get lost in this movie for a total of 10 hours of your life if you watch it 10 more times. So for 10 hrs of your entire life you were in another "realm." Now let's say, this is the only movie you are allowed to watch. Furthermore, let's say this is the only means of entertainment allowed your whole life. Would this not be hell? The repetition and being stuck in one place? Even though you loved this movie, being stuck with it would slowly turn to...well, a really frightening state.

I will play along with your imagination.

The movie would not be boring IF it was like a "choose your own adventure" story. Have you ever read those kind of books where you make a choice as to which page you turn to next rather than just turning the page with no choice as to getting a different result to the one which the author designed?

What if you had a "choose your own adventure" movie where you could interact in it and direct which way it goes rather than just being a spectator or observer?
Would your movie be like "Ground Hog Day" where all people do the same thing every day or would your movie consist of not only you doing different things to get different results but all the characters doing different things to get different results?

Would you get bored with that movie or would you enjoy participating in it to see how many different results you manage to get?

A repetitive movie might be "hell" due to becoming boring in the sense that you know what will happen next, but how many times do the circumstances in your life repeat themselves in exactly the same way every day? How many times do the people you interact with say exactly the same thing every day?

You can choose to be the spectator of the movie or you can choose to be the director of the movie. Whether you get bored with the movie or not depends on whether you wish to experiment with it by changing your own actions and reactions and observing how many characters in the movie also change theirs or if they constantly do the same thing out of habit.

If you have an intelligent mind which is creative enough, your own mind will never bring you to the state of boredom or hell unless that is what you desire to experience at the time.
Vox_Veritas
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6/5/2015 7:26:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 3:06:25 AM, Outplayz wrote:
...or would it not want to escape it?

I'll explain what i mean, but just remember not to wordplay (go with the flow and take the words in the context of the idea). I'll be describing this mainly in analogies. It's a thought that has been interesting to me, so i'd like to get some comments and critiques to see where this can go.

I look at this in a video game/movie type of analogy. The movie one is easier to explain so i'll start with this. Let's say you watch a 2 hour movie, and you have an average of 75 years to live. Now let's say, you love this movie and are lost in it for 2 hours. Considering you have an average of 75 years to live and the movie is 2 hours; you may get lost in this movie for a total of 10 hours of your life if you watch it 10 more times. So for 10 hrs of your entire life you were in another "realm." Now let's say, this is the only movie you are allowed to watch. Furthermore, let's say this is the only means of entertainment allowed your whole life. Would this not be hell? The repetition and being stuck in one place? Even though you loved this movie, being stuck with it would slowly turn to...well, a really frightening state.

Now, if we look at immortality. Let's say this immortal source is you; everyone is their own immortal (source). Wouldn't it be a more tortures hell if you were immortal and stuck in one place? Let's say you get your virgins, family, love, happiness, so on so on in your source state, but this is for infinity. It would be like watching the same movie over and over again, but with no escape. I know i'm generalizing in my opinion so far. Who knows, someone might like being in their source state stuck in one place they get all of their desires met ... but, this is where intelligence comes into play; would they really? After how many billions of years would you be able to hold your sanity? let's again say you have 75 years to live; then you go back to your source. Wouldn't this be similar to the movie analogy? You "pick" (i am making a leap in logic) a world to stay in for "x" amount of years. You change the movie once you have passed on to your source again.

Bottom line, why would you want to stay as your source? One, i think you will understand it is 'hell' to stay that way right when you get to it, and two, even if you stuck it out for a "x" amount of years; you'd eventually want change. Wouldn't it be logical to think an immortal intelligence would create "worlds" entirely so it doesn't go insane? Wouldn't the irony be that we are actually afraid of immortality, not death? Can i not conclude death would be a logical creation of an immortal source?

My ideas, even though i use religious words, have no affiliation with a religion. This is just a thought i have been having and working on for awhile. I will stop here for now so i can read some opinions. Please keep an open mind when you critique this, i want to learn from your responses. Thank you.

This assumes that the human brain will operate in the same manner in Heaven. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, surely he would be aware of this problem and He would do something to make sure this doesn't happen. It may involve God's manipulation of the human brain.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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dee-em
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6/6/2015 8:37:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 6:51:15 PM, Outplayz wrote:
Makes perfect sense. You have an unlimited number of immortal beings (who arose in some unspecified, magical way) who collectively choose to zero themselves out and randomly transfer their 'souls' to a primitive primate species on a rocky planet. This is a 'learning experience' for them to alleviate the boredom of an infinite life. Human beings are just avatars for these holiday excursioners. (Never mind all the other animal species - they are allowed to develop their own brains). To make the experience more authentic, there is no escape other than death. If the holidaymaker happens to be aborted or dies young, there is no money back guarantee. Yep, makes perfect sense. This is exactly what I would do if I was an immortal being - slum it on some nondescript backward little planet. Lol.

Dude, you need a reality check. Humans are nothing special in the animal kingdom. We have bigger brains, that is it. Whilst the development of consciousness is no small thing, don't try to pretend we are anything other than an intelligent animal. Like all other animals we breed, nurture our young, mature and then we die a final death. Musings about an 'after-life' are just wishful thinking from fearful people who can't face the prospect of their own mortality. Your dog doesn't have an after-life. Neither do you."

I don't know why you look at this planet so gloom.

It's not gloom, it's called accepting reality.

I don't know you, vice versa. You are making what i said insignificant. You want to belittle my idea, for some reason. I say okay, have at it; but don't but words in my mouth or pretend you know what i am saying. I've only giving you an idea through analogy. I have yet to explain what i fully mean. Quite honestly, my idea is chaos. it excepts everyone for what they are.

If you look at the source being me, it is much different than you. I don't know what your purpose is coming here; you have to figure that out. Ultimately, i think you came here. In the end, you will leave with something. An atheist's source would be the most interesting ... you have a broad platform. Yet, it could be frightening. I don't know how scared you are about the subject. You may be living in fear everyday. You may be depressed everyday. I don't know you. All i know is, you're a different source than me and others; or your the same as some. What i do know, it's up to me to except your belief or look down on it. If you do not want to be in my world, then you are insignificant in my eyes ... yes, i look down on you. I don't need you. All i need is what i am seeking, and to follow the rules to get there.

Um, since you're posting your 'ideas' on a public forum, it would seem to me that you shouldn't complain when you get feedback.

Btw, the word is "accept" not "except".

Don't pretend you have the answers ... you don't.

I wasn't providing answers, merely critiquing your 'ideas'.

Even i am theorizing. Yet, i look at this with an atheist's eye for detail. One: i have excepted that this can be my only life. I get that theory and am not afraid of it. How can i be? I am awake now and when i go ... i will be asleep with no dreams ... in darkness, like before my birth. If i am not aware, why be afraid? I will just live it up while i am awake. However, i'm too open-minded to except this as the only answer. I theorize with a friend that is in the field of neuroscience all the time. I get it ... the brain is quite important. Without it, hmm.

However, i am not going to stop there. I am pushing forward bc there is something more. This is subjective bc it is my intuitive feeling ... but, why let it go? If an artist gave up, they would never be remembered through the years. If a musician gave up, we wouldn't be serenaded with its beauty. Everyone has there single/multiple purpose. It is what you choose to be ... i can't change you bc you're exactly you.

Are we discussing making art or the nature of the human experience? You talk about neuroscience and then immediately launch into analogies about producing art. What?

I theorize, if we sleep (with dreams) what that would mean. I can't generalize this theory bc it's different for everyone. Not everyone has the same dreams; "paradise." It would be different. Also, you talk about how we are all animals. I agree. We live in this reality right now, and all of its rules are absolute. Were we can get with these rules, who knows? Maybe we will have a star wars type future ... idk, i am not psychic. What i am purposing is that this is just one reality we can "visit." Infant dying at the age of 0 ...would be gone without any knowledge of this world. So? This source can either pick to come back or stay as its source or go somewhere else.

And you base these speculations on what exactly? Dreams? Lol.

The source. I am theorizing it's immortal, intelligent, self aware, conscious; it would pick realities like this. Yet, why not other realities like a marvels universe? But wait, would i have known this universe by myself without living now? Maybe, but if not ... i have learned of something amazing, in my eyes. This might be hell to some, or some might want to pick a dark lord ... that is their source, not mine, not others, but can be some others. Everyone is different, different source, different "paradise." But there differences can be the same.

Hmmm. No comment. I'll just let this hang out there.

" unlimited number of immortal beings " I never said that. There could be, or there could be a set amount. For example: What if everyone you love becomes one identity with you... Then what? You will know everyone, yet you will lose your single identity. Still, then what? for how many years would you want to stay that way. Let's say if every identity became one consciousness (a god analogy). Again, then what? My question is why would this source want to stay that way? It would be logical to release every identity into a world; Escape it's immortality. Knowing everything, being pure knowledge, being everyone is frightening if you are stuck that way. Death is a tool. This world isn't as insignificant as you try to make it.

Is this a premise for a sci-fi novel you are writing? Lol.

If I were a highly advanced immortal 'source' I think I would have deeper concerns than trying to escape my immortality and experience pretend death whilst slumming it. I mean, what a pitiful pursuit and a waste of such precious gifts. How about trying to help and uplift other species, discover the nature of the universe, or avoid the inevitable heat death when all the stars go out. No, this 'source' would rather watch full-immersion movies instead. Such beings, if they existed, would deserve nothing but contempt.
bulproof
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6/6/2015 10:12:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 11:46:43 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
The point that you are ignoring is that it makes little difference but to those that are anal simply put.

You are giving Skyangel a great show I'm sure as she knows how I play with the BIG heads and the wanna bees such as yourself.

I will agree with what ever pleases you on the then and than as it seems that programing is important too you.

I'm well aware of the information in your link just as I'm well aware that most people yourself included prefer playing their little games with uppercase and lower case Gods/gods and also their sci-fi theories and other make believe and pretend.

The IMPORTAINT point that you are IGNORING is that I don't do brainwashed normal programing and follow the popular propaganda of the times.

I leave such nonsense two you and the others that require outside sources 2 do their thinking for them.

I'm waiting for you to bring up my comment on time not being measurable but within illusion. Or did you miss those issues of scienterrific studies?

Are you SURE you want to lock horns with a god?

You have already lost before you started.

Ya think
ROFLMAO
Go talk to the madman.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Outplayz
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6/7/2015 9:40:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The movie would not be boring IF it was like a "choose your own adventure" story.

No, I've never read one of those books. I get what you mean though. Yes, If you choose your own adventure, it would be less boring. But, even that has its limits. Just compare to immortality. When you are in the adventure, you wouldn't know you picked that position. But, if every time you die and realize you've been making up those adventures, i assume at some point you would get tired of it.

What if you had a "choose your own adventure" movie where you could interact in it and direct which way it goes rather than just being a spectator or observer?

Are you talking about free will? Or lack thereof? I believe you can do both. But again, think about how many times you'd enjoy doing that. Eventually, you'd want change.

Would your movie be like "Ground Hog Day" where all people do the same thing every day or would your movie consist of not only you doing different things to get different results but all the characters doing different things to get different results?

I've never seen this movie, but i've heard about it. Correct me if i am wrong, but the guy is stuck repeating the same day right? I think that would be hell, personally. But, i cannot say it can't happen. I think some others and my consciousness is strong enough to avoid this. But, there may be a weak source that falls into this trap. I assume something like this could happen to those of a more evil nature.

Would you get bored with that movie or would you enjoy participating in it to see how many different results you manage to get?

Okay, so i will use my marvel's universe type analogy. Btw, so far thank you for asking me open minded questions. This has me thinking as i write ... so thank you. Anyways, let's say in the Marvel's universe you play every character. Infinity is a long time. You could be every character if you wanted to. Yet, at some point you would have done everything you could imagine in this world. Just like a child with a toy. You'd want something new eventually. Just remember, i am not generalizing. Some sources might never want to leave their next world.

A repetitive movie might be "hell" due to becoming boring in the sense that you know what will happen next, but how many times do the circumstances in your life repeat themselves in exactly the same way every day? How many times do the people you interact with say exactly the same thing every day?

This was a good point. It got me thinken lol. Yeah, our lives could be repetitive. It's not knowing what might happen tomorrow that's exciting. Or for some others, learning a new trade might be exciting. Or, going out and having a beer with a stranger might be exciting to some. Point is, we are the artists of our lives. This life has things to offer now ... it is our choice to pick it. Even if we don't ... there is always something in life that pops up and flips the page.

You can choose to be the spectator of the movie or you can choose to be the director of the movie. Whether you get bored with the movie or not depends on whether you wish to experiment with it by changing your own actions and reactions and observing how many characters in the movie also change theirs or if they constantly do the same thing out of habit.

It depends on which world you enter. I think you can make a world of your own, or go to a preset world. If you're consciousness does survive death, it would be unbound. So, i think you can live in your own mind or another world that was created by another source. You can be director, observer, or participant. I am theorizing that if we survive death, we are infinite. Which gives you a long time to do whatever.

If you have an intelligent mind which is creative enough, your own mind will never bring you to the state of boredom or hell unless that is what you desire to experience at the time.

True. Could this reality be a training ground to make your mind more powerful to deal with immortality ... hmm, maybe. Good point again. I am going to use myself as an analogy this time. I am a creative person. I taught myself how to play the piano like Mozart ... and i am much better on the drums. I am a musician by passion. So, i do create. I may create a song that gives me goosebumps for a week, but eventually i get sick of it. It gets to a point that the song i made feels tedious to listen to. Point is. Even if you do have all the knowledge, or creativity of the world ... there is an apex point. You will eventually want change. Or, just be stuck in your own mind. I think the smarter sources know what they're doing.

Just remember, the examples i am giving is not saying this is the same for all. I think everyone is immortal or a source. You know when they say your life flashes before you at your death bed? My question is, "what images are you going to take with you"? You can either create your own "hell" or "heaven." However, i do believe in the idea of a "god." Yet, i think the idea of this being is misunderstood. I think it was the original source. We all come from it, and we could all go back to it. But, why would it do that? Think about how alone you would be if you were all and knew everything ... Even heaven has angels, created by a source so its not alone.
Outplayz
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6/7/2015 9:44:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This assumes that the human brain will operate in the same manner in Heaven. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, surely he would be aware of this problem and He would do something to make sure this doesn't happen. It may involve God's manipulation of the human brain.

If that is what you want, go for it. I personally don't want any other source to manipulate or change anything. I am fine with who i am. This is how i will stay. I will continue living this world to its fullest, and i will make sure the last memory i have before i leave is epic.
Outplayz
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6/7/2015 10:46:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's not gloom, it's called accepting reality.

I accept reality. I'm having a blast. Why are you indicating that excepting reality must be gloom? I mean, that's the tone i am getting; tell me if i'm wrong.

Um, since you're posting your 'ideas' on a public forum, it would seem to me that you shouldn't complain when you get feedback.

You are right. I will try to show more humility. Just understand, if you ridicule me ... you shouldn't be surprised if i have a slightly different tone in my reply.

Btw, the word is "accept" not "except".

Haha, see ... so this is how you want to play. Okay, thank you for the catch. I noticed that too late.

Are we discussing making art or the nature of the human experience? You talk about neuroscience and then immediately launch into analogies about producing art. What?

Why can't it be the art of human nature/experience? I did bring up neuroscience. It is interesting to me, but i am not well versed in the subject. I talk with my uncle that is. He believes when the brain goes, so do you. I agree with him, yet vaguely. I believe there is something more. What are your opinions of consciousness surviving death?

And you base these speculations on what exactly? Dreams? Lol.

No and yes. In regards to your reply, no. When i mentioned "sleep w/dreams or sleep w/no dreams" what i mean is: Death in a atheistic view. Sleep being death. No dreams being nothingness. So, sleep with dreams means death and "something." It was just a metaphor. But, dreams are interesting to me. I've had some odd ones that felt supernatural later. Anyways, I am saying death could be like a dream when i say "yes."
Except, I think you can transfer your consciousnesses to mortal bodies. Or, you can stay trapped with your own mind forever. I can't speak for all, but i do think most would live mortal/immortal lives.

Hmmm. No comment. I'll just let this hang out there.

Why not? Just theorize with me. I know you understand what i mean. Yet, i did have a grin when i wrote that. I was thinking, "he will have a ball with this paragraph." Lol.

Is this a premise for a sci-fi novel you are writing? Lol.

You could look at it that way. It would be an ad hominem. Are you trying to refute what i am saying by ridicule? You know better than that.

If I were a highly advanced immortal 'source' I think I would have deeper concerns than trying to escape my immortality and experience pretend death whilst slumming it.

Cool. I really don't know what you will do once you get back to your source. Everyone's different. Only you can figure this it.

I mean, what a pitiful pursuit and a waste of such precious gifts. How about trying to help and uplift other species, discover the nature of the universe, or avoid the inevitable heat death when all the stars go out.

And, where did i say don't do this? We are in a paradise right now. My hopes are that people will figure themselves out so we can make this world as perfect as possible. My belief isn't much different than an atheists. Either this is your only life or you go somewhere else if you can survive death. But, in the present ... this is where you are. You will never be here, like you are, again. Unless you want to replay it within your own mind ... some source might be crazy enough to do that; i wouldn't.

No, this 'source' would rather watch full-immersion movies instead. Such beings, if they existed, would deserve nothing but contempt.

Let's say you do turn immortal (just play along) what would you do? I think every source is different in regards to this answer. I think a source is unbound.

My whole idea rests on the assumption that consciousness can survive death. This reality is different than a reality within your own mind. I think there is both. Either the source can stay within its own mind or reincarnate into a reality like this. And, why are you looking down on what i might do ... do you really care that i would like to do a "full immersions"? I mean, whatever i do is up to me. Whatever you do is up to you. You can say my views are similar to solipsism but the reverse. I think the afterlife is what you create.