Total Posts:33|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Is Islam the true religion?

TheReviver
Posts: 2
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 3:08:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 3:04:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 2:51:12 PM, TheReviver wrote:
Well?

No.

how so? why is it not the true religion?
If it is perfect in all ways, it must be the true religion. I mean can you tell me one single reason why it is not the true religion?
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 3:08:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You two are terrible conversationalists. LOL
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Geogeer
Posts: 4,276
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 3:08:38 PM, TheReviver wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:04:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 2:51:12 PM, TheReviver wrote:
Well?

No.

how so? why is it not the true religion?
If it is perfect in all ways, it must be the true religion. I mean can you tell me one single reason why it is not the true religion?

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.
Pase66
Posts: 775
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:10:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 2:51:12 PM, TheReviver wrote:
Well?

Well...... no. To say it's a true religion means that it wouldn't be a religion, but a way of life. And fore billions, it isn't. Here, let me ask you a question. Is hinduism the true religion? What about Buddhism? Maybe Judaism? Why Islam of all the religions in the world? It's just a coincidence that you were born muslim, and not hindu, jewish, sikh, etc.
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
http://www.debate.org...
Pase66
Posts: 775
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:11:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

I wouldn't say Christianity is the true religion either....
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
http://www.debate.org...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,276
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:13:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:11:45 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

I wouldn't say Christianity is the true religion either....

One would think that after the time I took to make a refutation, you might do the same... It keeps the conversation going...
Pase66
Posts: 775
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:15:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:13:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:11:45 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

I wouldn't say Christianity is the true religion either....

One would think that after the time I took to make a refutation, you might do the same... It keeps the conversation going...

That was a refutation to Islam. But here, let me try.

Would you agree that "god" is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient?
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
http://www.debate.org...
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:20:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No, why do you even have to ask? No God that's smarter than humans would think of putting all of God's eggs in one human man's basket yet that's what Muhammadan believers think God did with Muhammad. What happens when Muhammad is found wanting in all moral respects, e.g. promoting killing rivals in the name of God, e.g. robbing a 7 or 9 year old girl of her childhood and forcing her to please a dirty old man's sexual desires, e.g telling all Muhammadan believers they must believe in Muhammad or face dire consequences, i.e. coercion used to the max in Muhammadan religion while lying to believers that no coercion is used.

God isn't with the Abrahamic religions anymore. They served their purpose as pack horses carrying the spiritual goods through time to our generation where finally we can historically reconstruct God's true Torah Messages instead of relying on very false Bible stories concocted more for political reasons than for showing the will of God. Abraham was insane and the quicker Abrahamic religionists understand that the sooner they can join the human race as religious equals without the Abrahamic religious warfare prejudices that God only talks to Abrahamic priesthoods. God talks to everyone who listens.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,276
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:20:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:15:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:13:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:11:45 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

I wouldn't say Christianity is the true religion either....

One would think that after the time I took to make a refutation, you might do the same... It keeps the conversation going...

That was a refutation to Islam. But here, let me try.

Would you agree that "god" is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient?

Yes, but omnibenevolent is not one of the "traditional" characteristics attributed to God which are omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:23:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

- I hope you're joking here!
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Pase66
Posts: 775
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:30:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:20:59 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:15:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:13:40 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:11:45 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

I wouldn't say Christianity is the true religion either....

One would think that after the time I took to make a refutation, you might do the same... It keeps the conversation going...

That was a refutation to Islam. But here, let me try.

Would you agree that "god" is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient?

Yes, but omnibenevolent is not one of the "traditional" characteristics attributed to God which are omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

But I will take that you agree with omnibenevolence.

Now, lets take the observable fact that evil and suffering exists in this world. In Christianity, evil exists because Lucifer fell and became Satan, and thus evil was sprung on the world. Now, God and Lucifer (from my understanding) are opposites, and the reason there exists evil is due to Lucifer AND free will. First to address free will; If God knows everything, he knows all past, present, and future (for they fall under "everything"). If God knows the future of mankind, how do we have free will? For it is predetermined. Now, following from this argument, God knew that Lucifer would become the devil. So why did God create Lucifer? God intentionally created evil, and brought it down upon us humans, and thus is not omnibenevolent, for he brought upon evil, and thus suffering, upon us. Now, since there still exists evil, it means God either can destroy it but doesn't want to (and is does not benevolent), or wants to but can't (and thus is not omnipotent). Now, if God did not know about all of this, he is not omniscient. You see, the Christian God gives way to many contradictions about its own nature.
Check out these Current Debates
It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
http://www.debate.org...
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:31:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:08:38 PM, TheReviver wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:04:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 2:51:12 PM, TheReviver wrote:
Well?

No.

how so? why is it not the true religion?
If it is perfect in all ways, it must be the true religion. I mean can you tell me one single reason why it is not the true religion?

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

You have shown nothing except scientifically-unfounded and subjective, agenda-driven Christian bias.

A Muslim has just as much proof as that Allah is the one and true God as do you Christians have for Yahweh. Actually, probably MORE, as their Koran is not nearly as filled with as many unbelievable and at times loatshome and murderous stories as is your Old Testament. Allah seems much more believable as a God, as you guys have anthropomorphized Yahweh so much as to morph him into a cartoon character.

If you want me to post some truly loathsome Yahweh passages, just say the word. I will fill this thread with them.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,276
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:32:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:23:44 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

- I hope you're joking here!

Please refute...
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:47:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am an agnostic, and a Recovering Catholic, but I have come to the conclusion that RELATIVELY speaking, Islam makes more sense than Christianity.

Of course, I don't really like either and have little respect for them. but still, its amusing when Christians mock Islam. (btw, we are leaving politics out of this. I know the Islamic world is screwed up but I am talking about the central ideas of the religions, not the sociopolitical aspect).

Christianity in general is just a strange and illogical concept. God's only son sacrificed himself for our sins? lowut? God made us. He created us with this sin. If we are all sinners, its because God himself made us like that. The fact that he then has to send his son down here for us so we can repent, believe in him and go to heaven is ridiculous.

Thats not a sacrifice. Thats a threat. Blackmail of sorts. It would be like me kidnapping someone, putting them in a room with poisinous gas and then sending my kid in there to resxue them. And when they come out, I tell them my kid died to rescue them so worship him because I sacrificed my son for them. EXCEPT I PUT THEM THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE wtffffffffffffffffff. The whole concept if flawed.

The only way to salvation is through Christ. Well cool except humans have existed for thousands of years before that. Apart from being short sighted, its a silly idea because if all humans are sinners, who died for the ones before Christ. And if they are judged differently, then why should any other human after Christ be judged on their belief in an event not clearly documented about a person whose life is a mystery. Makes no sense.

Oh and gays are bad. Cool story bros.

Now Islam has the same ridiculous miracles and ideas about a powerful entity that for whatever reason decided to play a cruel game by making us with temptations and then testing us. Just for the lulz I guess.
But its still more reasonable in a sense that God creates humans and then sends prophets down to give us his "message" with Muhammad being the last one. I guess this could work if it. Well not really but still better than Christianity.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 4:49:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And of course we should never forget that Christianity is even MORE murderous and a big danger to the world than Islam.

Here's How..................

https://abagond.wordpress.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 5:00:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:23:44 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

- I hope you're joking here!

Well, he's not. At least he thinks he is serious. Which makes it all that much more sad.

I would not hold my breath waiting for George to reply. At least not with anything tangible and objective and outside of his own opinion. The only thing I have ever seen him counter with is what they in debate circles refer to as circular logic.

Which for him usually equates to: "It's gotta be true because my bible tells me so!"
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,276
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 5:49:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:31:26 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:08:38 PM, TheReviver wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:04:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 2:51:12 PM, TheReviver wrote:
Well?

No.

how so? why is it not the true religion?
If it is perfect in all ways, it must be the true religion. I mean can you tell me one single reason why it is not the true religion?

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

You have shown nothing except scientifically-unfounded and subjective, agenda-driven Christian bias.

A Muslim has just as much proof as that Allah is the one and true God as do you Christians have for Yahweh. Actually, probably MORE, as their Koran is not nearly as filled with as many unbelievable and at times loatshome and murderous stories as is your Old Testament. Allah seems much more believable as a God, as you guys have anthropomorphized Yahweh so much as to morph him into a cartoon character.

If you want me to post some truly loathsome Yahweh passages, just say the word. I will fill this thread with them.

I see that you put a lot of words on the page, but none of it is a logical refutation of what I wrote. It was a logical refutation of Islam. Please address what was written instead of diatribing.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 5:57:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 5:49:02 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:31:26 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:08:38 PM, TheReviver wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:04:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 2:51:12 PM, TheReviver wrote:
Well?

No.

how so? why is it not the true religion?
If it is perfect in all ways, it must be the true religion. I mean can you tell me one single reason why it is not the true religion?

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

You have shown nothing except scientifically-unfounded and subjective, agenda-driven Christian bias.

A Muslim has just as much proof as that Allah is the one and true God as do you Christians have for Yahweh. Actually, probably MORE, as their Koran is not nearly as filled with as many unbelievable and at times loatshome and murderous stories as is your Old Testament. Allah seems much more believable as a God, as you guys have anthropomorphized Yahweh so much as to morph him into a cartoon character.

If you want me to post some truly loathsome Yahweh passages, just say the word. I will fill this thread with them.

I see that you put a lot of words on the page, but none of it is a logical refutation of what I wrote. It was a logical refutation of Islam. Please address what was written instead of diatribing.

Did you get hit on the head with a hammer this morning?

LOL--you supplied NO LOGIC with your diatribe against Islam and how your god is the true one. ONLY opinion. Like I said in my OP. Bias. Agenda. Subjectivity. Logic is science. You have none of that, thus I find it difficult to respond to dogmatic jibberish with logic. I need logic to refute logic.

But I will leave you with a thought by a favorite of mine. Sam Harris........

It is time we admitted, from kings and presidents on down, that there is no evidence that any of our books was authored by the Creator of the universe. The Bible, it seems certain, was the work of sand-strewn men and women who thought the earth was flat and for whom a wheelbarrow would have been a breathtaking example of emerging technology. To rely on such a document as the basis for our worldview-however heroic the efforts of redactors- is to repudiate two thousand years of civilizing insights that the human mind has only just begun to inscribe upon itself through secular politics and scientific culture. We will see that the greatest problem confronting civilization is not merely religious extremism: rather, it is the larger set of cultural and intellectual accommodations we have made to faith itself."
R13; Sam Harris, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 6:01:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Everyone who has eyes to see can see that if the God of Abraham exists, He is an utter psychopath--and the God of Nature too. If you can't see these things just by looking, you have simply closed your eyes to the realities of our world."
R13; Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 6:02:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
About your god, Yahweh, whom you worship.................

"In the face of God's obvious inadequacies, the pious have generally held that one cannot apply earthly norms to the Creator of the universe. This argument loses its force the moment we notice that the Creator who purports to be beyond human judgment is consistently ruled by human passions" jealousy, wrath, suspicion, and the lust to dominate. A close study of our holy books reveals that the God of Abraham is a ridiculous fellow"capricious, petulant, and cruel"and one with whom a covenant is little guarantee of health or happiness. If these are the characteristics of God, then the worst among us have been created far more in his image than we ever could have hoped."
R13; Sam Harris, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,276
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 6:12:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 5:57:00 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/4/2015 5:49:02 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:31:26 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:48:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:08:38 PM, TheReviver wrote:
At 6/4/2015 3:04:11 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 2:51:12 PM, TheReviver wrote:
Well?

No.

how so? why is it not the true religion?
If it is perfect in all ways, it must be the true religion. I mean can you tell me one single reason why it is not the true religion?

Its nature of God is poor.

1. Christianity is quite clear God is perfect and unchanging - which is what you would expect of an omniscient all powerful being. I'm just going off memory at the moment here, but I believe that Islam teaches that God is so powerful that he can change his own will. Thus if Allah were to decide tomorrow that only Hindus were to go to heaven and everyone else was to be damned he could do that. Allah is reduced to an imperfect temporal being.

2. I'm sure that muslims will all agree that God is greater than us in all respects. Thus any good thing we possess, Allah will possess in perfect capacities. We have intellect because Allah has a perfect intellect, etc... Additionally, Islam teaches that humility is a virtue, thus Allah must be perfectly humble. Where is this perfect act of humility?

3. As a follow on to the last argument. God is perfect and has no need of us to be perfectly fulfilled in every way - both Christianity and Islam agree on this. However, this reveals the flaw in the nature of Allah. Love. Love is a desire. It is self giving. Allah without creation Allah is not fulfilled in his own nature. However, the Trinity is. Love has a lover (the Father), a beloved (the Son) and a loving relationship (the Holy Spirit).

I have shown 3 logical reasons that Islam is not the true religion.

You have shown nothing except scientifically-unfounded and subjective, agenda-driven Christian bias.

A Muslim has just as much proof as that Allah is the one and true God as do you Christians have for Yahweh. Actually, probably MORE, as their Koran is not nearly as filled with as many unbelievable and at times loatshome and murderous stories as is your Old Testament. Allah seems much more believable as a God, as you guys have anthropomorphized Yahweh so much as to morph him into a cartoon character.

If you want me to post some truly loathsome Yahweh passages, just say the word. I will fill this thread with them.

I see that you put a lot of words on the page, but none of it is a logical refutation of what I wrote. It was a logical refutation of Islam. Please address what was written instead of diatribing.

Did you get hit on the head with a hammer this morning?

LOL--you supplied NO LOGIC with your diatribe against Islam and how your god is the true one. ONLY opinion. Like I said in my OP. Bias. Agenda. Subjectivity. Logic is science. You have none of that, thus I find it difficult to respond to dogmatic jibberish with logic. I need logic to refute logic.

Then it should be easy for you to logically refute what I stated. If Islam is true, what it claims about the nature of God must be logically defensible. I have given reasons why it is not logically defensible. Logic is not science. Science is the pursuit of understanding the physical world. Science employs logic, but science is not logic. Funny I didn't really argue anything dogmatic. I made arguments based on what Islam claims is the nature of God.

But I will leave you with a thought by a favorite of mine. Sam Harris........

It is time we admitted, from kings and presidents on down, that there is no evidence that any of our books was authored by the Creator of the universe. The Bible, it seems certain, was the work of sand-strewn men and women who thought the earth was flat and for whom a wheelbarrow would have been a breathtaking example of emerging technology. To rely on such a document as the basis for our worldview-however heroic the efforts of redactors- is to repudiate two thousand years of civilizing insights that the human mind has only just begun to inscribe upon itself through secular politics and scientific culture. We will see that the greatest problem confronting civilization is not merely religious extremism: rather, it is the larger set of cultural and intellectual accommodations we have made to faith itself."
R13; Sam Harris, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason


That's nice, but it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. My argument is whether a particular nature of God is logically consistent - I never quoted the bible once.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,276
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 6:28:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 4:30:57 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:20:59 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 6/4/2015 4:15:01 PM, Pase66 wrote:

Would you agree that "god" is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient?

Yes, but omnibenevolent is not one of the "traditional" characteristics attributed to God which are omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

But I will take that you agree with omnibenevolence.

Depending on what you mean by omnibenevolent, yes.

Now, lets take the observable fact that evil and suffering exists in this world. In Christianity, evil exists because Lucifer fell and became Satan, and thus evil was sprung on the world.

Evil is not a thing, evil is the absence of good just as darkness is the absence of light.

Now, God and Lucifer (from my understanding) are opposites, and the reason there exists evil is due to Lucifer AND free will.

Lucifer is not the opposite to God. God is God and Lucifer is a creation of God who has voluntarily rejected God. It would be possible for us to have fallen even if Lucifer did not tempt Eve.

First to address free will; If God knows everything, he knows all past, present, and future (for they fall under "everything"). If God knows the future of mankind, how do we have free will? For it is predetermined.

Foreknowledge does not negate free will. This would imply that we are nothing but dominoes. God does not force you to make the decisions you make. God lives in the present at all points through history simultaneously. He has given you free will and a free will means you can accept or reject him.

Now, following from this argument, God knew that Lucifer would become the devil. So why did God create Lucifer?

Love requires the ability to be rejected. If God only created those who would love him, he would be the equivalent of a spiritual rapist. It is a true act of love to give the other the ability to reject that love.

God intentionally created evil, and brought it down upon us humans, and thus is not omnibenevolent, for he brought upon evil, and thus suffering, upon us. Now, since there still exists evil, it means God either can destroy it but doesn't want to (and is does not benevolent), or wants to but can't (and thus is not omnipotent).

Once again you speak as if evil is a thing, but it is not a thing to destroy. To destroy evil God would have to destroy free will. Thus God would deny us the thing which enables us to truly love Him. And since God is love it would be a denial of his true nature.

God permitted evil because it allows a greater good. Our nature has been joined with God through the incarnation of Jesus. This has raised us above the angels. God did the great act of benevolence by taking all the punishments for sin upon Himself. If we love God we will be in his presence, if we do not we will not. It the purest free will possible - which enables the greatest love possible.

Now, if God did not know about all of this, he is not omniscient. You see, the Christian God gives way to many contradictions about its own nature.

Not at all. God has done everything for our good (pure benevolence). Whether we accept it or not is our own free choice.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2015 11:46:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
None of the Muhammadans or wannabes are addressing the reasons I gave why Muhammadism is not God's choice of religions. It's a foil for showing why priesthood led religions are false, especially Abrahamic ones, with their Bible lies being sold to gullible ignorant believers who are themselves too lazy to find a spiritual path to God on their own. When you Muhammadans clones can tell us why anyone in their right mind would ever follow the ideas of caravan robber, killer, child abuser, egomaniac, who wasn't even Jewish yet stole our Jewish religious ideas for his own ego-tripping Muhammadan idol worship, when that happens, hell has frozen over. Only people in their wrong mind, the minds that don't want to think or think about anyone else, they are ripe for brainwashing religions like Muhammadanism. Who are we dealing with when we talk to Muhammadan believers? Individuals or cut-n-paste human tape recorders without minds of their own, only one man's mind allowed Muhammadan believers and it isn't theirs. It's amazing to see grown men and women in our day and age unable to think for themselves and have to reach for a book to see which way to act.
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2015 12:08:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 6:28:35 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Once again you speak as if evil is a thing, but it is not a thing to destroy. To destroy evil God would have to destroy free will. Thus God would deny us the thing which enables us to truly love Him. And since God is love it would be a denial of his true nature.
Hence there will be no free will in heaven orrrrrrrrrr evil will still exist in heaven.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2015 2:36:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/4/2015 11:46:00 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
None of the Muhammadans or wannabes are addressing the reasons I gave why Muhammadism is not God's choice of religions. It's a foil for showing why priesthood led religions are false, especially Abrahamic ones, with their Bible lies being sold to gullible ignorant believers who are themselves too lazy to find a spiritual path to God on their own. When you Muhammadans clones can tell us why anyone in their right mind would ever follow the ideas of caravan robber, killer, child abuser, egomaniac, who wasn't even Jewish yet stole our Jewish religious ideas for his own ego-tripping Muhammadan idol worship, when that happens, hell has frozen over. Only people in their wrong mind, the minds that don't want to think or think about anyone else, they are ripe for brainwashing religions like Muhammadanism. Who are we dealing with when we talk to Muhammadan believers? Individuals or cut-n-paste human tape recorders without minds of their own, only one man's mind allowed Muhammadan believers and it isn't theirs. It's amazing to see grown men and women in our day and age unable to think for themselves and have to reach for a book to see which way to act.

U r not allowed to comment on anything in this forum beucase your stupidity is beyond imagination! hhalleloya! you made it!
Never fart near dog
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/5/2015 7:45:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Intellectual coward. Your terrible phony religion can't face moral scrutiny and all you can mount for defense of the Muhammad ripoff of our Jewish religions is ad hominen personal attack--because you have no rational, no ethical, defense of killer ape territorial conquest and control fascist totalitarian ideology masquerading as "religion". It has about as much relationship to worship of God as does Communism have with the will of the People. In other words, gangsters rule Muhammadan social organizing and gangland attacks on rivals are the well known order of the day as we see Muhammadans blowing each other up on a daily basis, the phony religion having zero respect for human life, zero compassion for human frailty, zero tolerance for human rights. In short, Muhammadism is a throwback to oriental despotism which appeals to people who don't want accept social responsibility for their behavior and hide behind mob rule that will kill indiscriminately. This is what the world sees every day with Muhammadan killer apes on parade in their masks as they hide from moral scrutiny because of knowing how much evil they are doing and will eventually pay for.