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Regarding the myth of Islam being peaceful...

Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/5/2015 3:41:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Let us take stock of the moral intuitions now on display in the House of Islam: On Aug. 17, 2005, an Iraqi insurgent helped collect the injured survivors of a car bombing, rushed them to a hospital and then detonated his own bomb, murdering those who were already mortally wounded as well as the doctors and nurses struggling to save their lives. Where were the cries of outrage from the Muslim world?

Religious sociopaths kill innocents by the hundreds in the capitols of Europe, blow up the offices of the U.N. and the Red Cross, purposefully annihilate crowds of children gathered to collect candy from U.S. soldiers on the streets of Baghdad, kidnap journalists, behead them, and the videos of their butchery become the most popular form of pornography in the Muslim world, and no one utters a word of protest because these atrocities have been perpetrated "in defense of Islam." But draw a picture of the Prophet, and pious mobs convulse with pious rage. One could hardly ask for a better example of religious dogmatism and its pseudo-morality eclipsing basic, human goodness.

It is time we recognized"and obliged the Muslim world to recognize"that "Muslim extremism" is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. In Islam, we confront a civilization with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and the Christians of the 14th century are pouring into our world."
------------Sam Harris

I agree 110% with ALL of this.

Would any muslims care to refute?

Thanks!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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6/5/2015 3:47:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 3:43:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Propaganda

Propaganda means "false."

So disprove or refute anything in the Harris quote.

Please.

Or maybe we could debate this fact?

Let me know.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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6/5/2015 3:48:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Pretty much right on in describing Shiite and Sunni Muhammadism. Ahmadiyyah Muslims actually are peaceful and they shouldn't be lumped together with the Muhammadans who somewhere along the line never learned that oriental despotism and religious mob rule went out of style centuries ago in civilized nations.
Saint_of_Me
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6/5/2015 4:20:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Man....this is easier than I initially reckoned it would be.

So..I am currently re-reading the Koran, prompted, mind you, from a bet I made with a female co-worker (a nurse here at the VA..and a great one) who is of the Islamic faith.

If I read it this weekend she promised to take me to lunch at a local Middle Easter restaurant next week when we will discuss the Q'uran.

So..I am sitting here at home--afternoon off from work due to an earlier dentist's appt--decided to take a personal day--with a pad and pen in hand, planning to write down passages for discussion. Most of them are going to be ones that condone or exhort violence, as that is the primary gist of the theological bone I plan to pick with her.

Well, shiatsu, amigos. Sure didn't take long. The very first Surah..The Cow. I come across a line about how terrible punishment awaits ANY non-believers. Infidels.

Of which I am one. Yikes!

Here are some more especially piquant quotes from that book of Peace............

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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6/5/2015 4:24:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 4:20:11 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Man....this is easier than I initially reckoned it would be.

So..I am currently re-reading the Koran, prompted, mind you, from a bet I made with a female co-worker (a nurse here at the VA..and a great one) who is of the Islamic faith.

If I read it this weekend she promised to take me to lunch at a local Middle Easter restaurant next week when we will discuss the Q'uran.

So..I am sitting here at home--afternoon off from work due to an earlier dentist's appt--decided to take a personal day--with a pad and pen in hand, planning to write down passages for discussion. Most of them are going to be ones that condone or exhort violence, as that is the primary gist of the theological bone I plan to pick with her.

Well, shiatsu, amigos. Sure didn't take long. The very first Surah..The Cow. I come across a line about how terrible punishment awaits ANY non-believers. Infidels.

Of which I am one. Yikes!

Here are some more especially piquant quotes from that book of Peace............

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

- Heard this story like a billion times, how about a debate instead?
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Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/5/2015 4:29:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 3:48:07 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Pretty much right on in describing Shiite and Sunni Muhammadism. Ahmadiyyah Muslims actually are peaceful and they shouldn't be lumped together with the Muhammadans who somewhere along the line never learned that oriental despotism and religious mob rule went out of style centuries ago in civilized nations.

Interesting.

I confess I was not aware of that particular sect of Islam. I thought the two primary sects were Sunni and Shiite. Thank you.

Did some checkin' on these blokes. Seems they for the most part are pretty peaceful, as witnessed by the fact that they are considered heretics by Sunnis and Shiites. Guess they aren't violen tenough, eh? LOL

Still...they DO list the Koran as one of their primary holy books, which has all those passages of violence and retribution for infidels among its blook-soaked pages. So I cannot help but wonder how the Ahmadyyis interpret these.

But for now I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and will lay off them in future posts in which I condemn Islam for its propensity of violence and hate and intolerance. My posts will allude, tacitly, to Sunnis and Shias.

thanks again!

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/5/2015 4:35:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 4:24:51 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 6/5/2015 4:20:11 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Man....this is easier than I initially reckoned it would be.

So..I am currently re-reading the Koran, prompted, mind you, from a bet I made with a female co-worker (a nurse here at the VA..and a great one) who is of the Islamic faith.

If I read it this weekend she promised to take me to lunch at a local Middle Easter restaurant next week when we will discuss the Q'uran.

So..I am sitting here at home--afternoon off from work due to an earlier dentist's appt--decided to take a personal day--with a pad and pen in hand, planning to write down passages for discussion. Most of them are going to be ones that condone or exhort violence, as that is the primary gist of the theological bone I plan to pick with her.

Well, shiatsu, amigos. Sure didn't take long. The very first Surah..The Cow. I come across a line about how terrible punishment awaits ANY non-believers. Infidels.

Of which I am one. Yikes!

Here are some more especially piquant quotes from that book of Peace............

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

- Heard this story like a billion times, how about a debate instead?

Heard it a billion times, eh?

Wonder why?

Because it's true.

And, oh yeah....Abu dabu...it's not a story..they are DIRECT QUOTES FROM YOUR KORAN!!

Did you get kicked in the head by a camel this morning?
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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6/5/2015 6:00:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 3:47:00 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/5/2015 3:43:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Propaganda

Propaganda means "false."

So disprove or refute anything in the Harris quote.

Please.

Or maybe we could debate this fact?

Let me know.

Nobody is denying that Islamic Terrorism happens. That doesn't necessarily make Islam bad, though. If Islam's the true religion, then its existence is allowing billions of people throughout history to go to Heaven.
Besides, the huge degree of violence in the Middle East can be traced back to a large number of causes. Don't forget that the Islamic World was mostly prosperous for a millennium.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/5/2015 7:54:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 6:00:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/5/2015 3:47:00 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/5/2015 3:43:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Propaganda

Propaganda means "false."

So disprove or refute anything in the Harris quote.

Please.

Or maybe we could debate this fact?

Let me know.

Nobody is denying that Islamic Terrorism happens. That doesn't necessarily make Islam bad, though. If Islam's the true religion, then its existence is allowing billions of people throughout history to go to Heaven.
Besides, the huge degree of violence in the Middle East can be traced back to a large number of causes. Don't forget that the Islamic World was mostly prosperous for a millennium.

Good point. There are indeed mitigating factors which the islamic radical jihadists feel compel them to violence. Or action. Interestingly, during my reading this weekend on Islam, I discovered that the word "Jihad" means "to strive."

Still. The Koran--like the Holy Bible--is blood-soaked and filled with many many exhortations to violence upon all deemed to be infidels. And with all the violence I have seen perpetrated by Muslims during my lifetime--remember I am a veteran--I just cannot allow Islamic apologists to any longer say that theirs is a peaceable religion. At least I cannot allow them to erroneously claim that without being compelled to offer them my views on why it is pretty much the opposite.

I also find it ironic--and a bit amusing, that the word Muslim means "one who submits to the will of Allah."
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
18Karl
Posts: 351
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6/6/2015 2:48:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/5/2015 7:54:11 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/5/2015 6:00:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/5/2015 3:47:00 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/5/2015 3:43:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Propaganda

Propaganda means "false."

So disprove or refute anything in the Harris quote.

Please.

Or maybe we could debate this fact?

Let me know.

Nobody is denying that Islamic Terrorism happens. That doesn't necessarily make Islam bad, though. If Islam's the true religion, then its existence is allowing billions of people throughout history to go to Heaven.
Besides, the huge degree of violence in the Middle East can be traced back to a large number of causes. Don't forget that the Islamic World was mostly prosperous for a millennium.

Good point. There are indeed mitigating factors which the islamic radical jihadists feel compel them to violence. Or action. Interestingly, during my reading this weekend on Islam, I discovered that the word "Jihad" means "to strive."

Doesn't Jihad mean a struggle, or something of that sort? btw, do you realize that many terrorist attacks before the 1980s (and the rise of Salafism) was done by secular groups? I'll give you an example. El Al Flight 426 hijacking was done a semi-Marxist Palestinian liberation group.


Still. The Koran--like the Holy Bible--is blood-soaked and filled with many many exhortations to violence upon all deemed to be infidels. And with all the violence I have seen perpetrated by Muslims during my lifetime--remember I am a veteran--I just cannot allow Islamic apologists to any longer say that theirs is a peaceable religion. At least I cannot allow them to erroneously claim that without being compelled to offer them my views on why it is pretty much the opposite.

Regarding this, the violent verses in the Holy Qu'ran have shown to be merely a product of the violent times that Muhammed lived in. There was one verse, I think, in Sura 9 of the Qu'ran which advocates for the killing of Fitnahs. Various commentators of the Qu'ran have shown that the verse was basically a call for all Muslims in that period to unite and fight against Quraysh, the polytheistic ruler of Mecca before Muhammed. The Islamic fundamentalists posing to be Muslims, attempting to corrupt the name of this religion, literally take the Qu'ran as it is written.

I also find it ironic--and a bit amusing, that the word Muslim means "one who submits to the will of Allah."

meh
praise the lord Chin Chin
Saint_of_Me
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6/8/2015 12:16:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This just in, from Al Jazeera..........

"While heavenly promises to male suicide bombers include 72 virgins, Arab clerics confirmed for the first time Monday, that heavenly gifts for female suicide bombers would include 15 towel boys, a deluxe Lac"me gift pack, and unlimited time in the spa. Though tanning and facials would be extra, female bombers would be receive a coupon for three chemical peel treatments, two hours on the tanning bed and an as yet undermined amount of electrolysis."
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.