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No evidence any deity exists, umm, I think?

drpiek
Posts: 589
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6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

How do we know, exactly?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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6/7/2015 1:34:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

How do we know that something complex and magnificent exists as you say it does?
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
drpiek
Posts: 589
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6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident
joetheripper117
Posts: 284
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6/7/2015 2:44:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

We aren't discussing existence, we are discussing the higher power you were alluding to. The fact that someone believes something is not evidence of that thing.
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
-Richard Dawkins
"The onus is on you to say why; the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not."
-Richard Dawkins
drpiek
Posts: 589
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6/7/2015 2:56:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 2:44:56 PM, joetheripper117 wrote:
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

We aren't discussing existence, we are discussing the higher power you were alluding to. The fact that someone believes something is not evidence of that thing.

He asked how I know something exists, not how I know a higher power exists. I did not claim proof of a god at least not one of your definition.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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6/7/2015 6:06:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

What inspired us to create the word God are our emotions which were the result of living in a universe beyond our understanding, a hope that there is something more to our existence then eating, screwing and sleeping, and a fear of death. I fail to see your point.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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6/7/2015 6:44:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

And, that means what, exactly? How does that answer the question that "we know that something exists"?

Illusions are not evidence of existence.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
drpiek
Posts: 589
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6/7/2015 7:27:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 6:06:34 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

What inspired us to create the word God are our emotions which were the result of living in a universe beyond our understanding, a hope that there is something more to our existence then eating, screwing and sleeping, and a fear of death. I fail to see your point.

Yes, it was feeling, or emotion. I agree.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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6/7/2015 7:29:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 6:44:26 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

And, that means what, exactly? How does that answer the question that "we know that something exists"?

Illusions are not evidence of existence.

Because we are experiencing existence. Just like every other word written here, existence is just another word we created and defined.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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6/7/2015 8:01:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:29:06 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 6:44:26 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

And, that means what, exactly? How does that answer the question that "we know that something exists"?

Illusions are not evidence of existence.

Because we are experiencing existence. Just like every other word written here, existence is just another word we created and defined.

Our existence is not evidence of some other thing's existence.

You;re still dodging the question.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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6/7/2015 10:12:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 6:06:34 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

What inspired us to create the word God are our emotions which were the result of living in a universe beyond our understanding, a hope that there is something more to our existence then eating, screwing and sleeping, and a fear of death. I fail to see your point.

Atheists are always in denial of real human behavior when it comes to spiritual consciousness. No atheist asks themselves why any animal would ever think of a concept of a Spirit in the first place. What would ever make any animal think there were invisible spiritual forces at work in their struggle for survival? Why would a tiger pay attention to invisible tigers when hunting? It would be a good way to never catch any game, reacting to invisible and non-existent entities and forces. Yet humans made the conception abstract jump to not only conceptualizing invisible entities and forces but reacting with major portions of their social life to invisible beings. Where did they first get this idea that invisible beings and forces existed? Tell us, o atheists where that conceptual leap began and why it happened using no abstract beings but just material world events and natural forces. No tiger worships a Big Tiger in the Sky so where would human animals get the idea?

I can tell you where the idea of an afterlife comes from. That's easy: from endless n.d.e. reports that go back as far as written documents record human thoughts and pile up every day with more reports. I believe God consciousness is inherent in the evolution of Life and intelligence. It's where we began and where we are going.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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6/7/2015 10:35:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 2:56:10 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 2:44:56 PM, joetheripper117 wrote:
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

We aren't discussing existence, we are discussing the higher power you were alluding to. The fact that someone believes something is not evidence of that thing.

He asked how I know something exists, not how I know a higher power exists. I did not claim proof of a god at least not one of your definition.

We don't know a deity, God, or some vague reference to it (something) exists. Your belief can not be submitted as facts or evidence. You started out good though - "The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist"
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/8/2015 3:54:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist.

Yes existence exists.

Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand.

Existence is complex and astounding in many ways but also simple in many other ways. It can be so simple we humans take it for granted and totally overlook it.

Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

Some personify existence as god. Some personify forces and powers as god. Some are referring to an invisible supernatural entity as god.
That is why the word God confuses so many people. There are many different ways of interpreting and perceiving it which include both fictional and realistic.

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

All words were invented and defined by humans. People also create every imaginary thing which they label with words.
They also personify many things as mythical characters. In that sense people do create mythical gods even if they do not create the things those gods represent.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/8/2015 3:57:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 8:01:09 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:29:06 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 6:44:26 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

And, that means what, exactly? How does that answer the question that "we know that something exists"?

Illusions are not evidence of existence.

Because we are experiencing existence. Just like every other word written here, existence is just another word we created and defined.

Our existence is not evidence of some other thing's existence.

Yes it is. Our existence is also evidence of our parents existence even if they are dead or even if a person is an orphan who never met his own parents. His existence is evidence that a male and female before him existed because humans come from the humans who "create" them.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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6/8/2015 9:29:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:57:39 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/7/2015 8:01:09 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:29:06 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 6:44:26 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

And, that means what, exactly? How does that answer the question that "we know that something exists"?

Illusions are not evidence of existence.

Because we are experiencing existence. Just like every other word written here, existence is just another word we created and defined.

Our existence is not evidence of some other thing's existence.

Yes it is. Our existence is also evidence of our parents existence even if they are dead or even if a person is an orphan who never met his own parents. His existence is evidence that a male and female before him existed because humans come from the humans who "create" them.

Unless, of course, we're a test tube baby.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/8/2015 12:35:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If there is a God, I believe it is of the Deistic variety.

That is, non-personal. Non-caring. And actually more or a Creative Universal Intelligence and Life Force than anything.

Ergo, it cannot be anthropomorphic. At least, we cannot do that and still speak of it with any degree of accuracy.

It would be like calling the CBR residue from the Big Bang "God" and then ascribing all manner of human-like emotions and foibles to it.

You know, like the christians did with yahweh.

And this Force would be all but intelligible to us. Like a hamster trying to read "A Brief History of Time."

But.......just but..maybe we can tap into the Force without understanding it. But by merely having our noble intentions coincide with its own Intentions. Which would be a non-emotional one, of course. Like the "intention" of an electrical current to turn on your light bulb.

??
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Fly
Posts: 2,043
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6/8/2015 12:44:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There are many things that are beyond our understanding. Historically, we have put these things under the umbrella of our concept of god(s). In that sense, "god" is the label we have assigned to our collective ignorance.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/8/2015 4:45:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 9:29:04 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:57:39 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/7/2015 8:01:09 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:29:06 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 6:44:26 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 2:33:03 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


How do we know, exactly?
Even if existence is an illusion, the illusion exists. It is self evident

And, that means what, exactly? How does that answer the question that "we know that something exists"?

Illusions are not evidence of existence.

Because we are experiencing existence. Just like every other word written here, existence is just another word we created and defined.

Our existence is not evidence of some other thing's existence.

Yes it is. Our existence is also evidence of our parents existence even if they are dead or even if a person is an orphan who never met his own parents. His existence is evidence that a male and female before him existed because humans come from the humans who "create" them.

Unless, of course, we're a test tube baby.
Makes no difference. The egg and sperm is still necessary and they come from a male and female even if you never know who they are.
No person is ever "created" without a male sperm and female egg. Those "ingredients" which make you are evidence of humans existing before you.
Mr_Eno_Otu
Posts: 118
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6/8/2015 5:05:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

Well, I met a Diety. Her name is Penny Barber LOLOL. You can look her up on the internet and join the site Ultimate Surrender for the proof LOLOL.
"La, la, la. Whatever. La, la, la. It doesn't matter. La, la, la. Oh well. La, la, la..."
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/8/2015 5:24:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

Hmm...you have to be careful when you say that "we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. "

Because that makes easy fodder for the hardline atheists around here. They are gonna jump on that like a pitbull on a poodle and say, 'How do we knowthat "something" (metaphysical or divine) does exist? Where is your proof?"

Just playing devil's advocate, here. But I DO agree with you that the Universe is "astoundingly complex and magnificent" and that if there WERE to be a Creator--even a Deistic variety--it too would have to be imbued with those qualities.

I think if I were trying to make you point I would just say something like " since not everything about this astoundingly complex universe can be explained, there stands a chance that there could be more to it than the merely physical and scientifcially verifiable."

Better? Less gist for the Atheist mill. LOL.

You also make a good point about, while the word "god" is of course man-made--as is religion--the larger question would be, "What possessed Man, from his earliest history, to propose a god? To seek one? To try and contact Him? Why are we seemingly hardwired with this notion if there is in fact nothing?"

I can give you the atheist neurologists' and Evolutionary Biologists' opinion on why that is (and in fact I have said it myself) but I will refrain, as that would be going off point from your OP>

Good thread!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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6/8/2015 5:36:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:54:25 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist.

Yes existence exists.

Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand.

Existence is complex and astounding in many ways but also simple in many other ways. It can be so simple we humans take it for granted and totally overlook it.

Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

Some personify existence as god. Some personify forces and powers as god. Some are referring to an invisible supernatural entity as god.
That is why the word God confuses so many people. There are many different ways of interpreting and perceiving it which include both fictional and realistic.

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

All words were invented and defined by humans. People also create every imaginary thing which they label with words.
They also personify many things as mythical characters. In that sense people do create mythical gods even if they do not create the things those gods represent.

As told to you many times but your ego can't hear it, your opinion about deities and spirituality is of no merit because you have no spiritual experience of God and just spew out Skyangle's ego opinions that reflect no spiritual contact with God.

You, daniel, all the atheist egotists who post everyday trying to convince theists they can't have spiritual experiences because atheists can't , are just spiritual dumbbells, know-nothings without knowledge of what they go on and on about every day because posting to get public attention is all that matters to them--its their OCD problem that compels them to make daily fools of themselves posting opinions about phenomena none of them knows anything about but second-hand hearsay they read of others.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/8/2015 5:41:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 5:36:40 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:54:25 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist.

Yes existence exists.

Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand.

Existence is complex and astounding in many ways but also simple in many other ways. It can be so simple we humans take it for granted and totally overlook it.

Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

Some personify existence as god. Some personify forces and powers as god. Some are referring to an invisible supernatural entity as god.
That is why the word God confuses so many people. There are many different ways of interpreting and perceiving it which include both fictional and realistic.

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

All words were invented and defined by humans. People also create every imaginary thing which they label with words.
They also personify many things as mythical characters. In that sense people do create mythical gods even if they do not create the things those gods represent.

As told to you many times but your ego can't hear it, your opinion about deities and spirituality is of no merit because you have no spiritual experience of God and just spew out Skyangle's ego opinions that reflect no spiritual contact with God.

You, daniel, all the atheist egotists who post everyday trying to convince theists they can't have spiritual experiences because atheists can't , are just spiritual dumbbells, know-nothings without knowledge of what they go on and on about every day because posting to get public attention is all that matters to them--its their OCD problem that compels them to make daily fools of themselves posting opinions about phenomena none of them knows anything about but second-hand hearsay they read of others.

And you would have the inside track on the Real Truth to All Things Spiritual in....uhh...exactly WHAT WAY, again?

Please enlighten me! As an agnostic I am always open to hear more Gnosis. LOL

I will be patiently awaiting your opinion of what constitutes a true spiritual experience. As well as why you know so much more about it than us lowly searchers who admit we do not know.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/8/2015 5:42:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Uh...and, fair warning: you might want to read some of my past posts on the matters of God and Deism and Evolution and indeed, Psychology. You know, just sow you know what level of knowledge on these topics you are dealing with.

Just sayin'.

TTLY, amigo.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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6/8/2015 7:27:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 10:12:05 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 6/7/2015 6:06:34 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

What inspired us to create the word God are our emotions which were the result of living in a universe beyond our understanding, a hope that there is something more to our existence then eating, screwing and sleeping, and a fear of death. I fail to see your point.

Atheists are always in denial of real human behavior when it comes to spiritual consciousness. No atheist asks themselves why any animal would ever think of a concept of a Spirit in the first place. What would ever make any animal think there were invisible spiritual forces at work in their struggle for survival? Why would a tiger pay attention to invisible tigers when hunting? It would be a good way to never catch any game, reacting to invisible and non-existent entities and forces. Yet humans made the conception abstract jump to not only conceptualizing invisible entities and forces but reacting with major portions of their social life to invisible beings. Where did they first get this idea that invisible beings and forces existed? Tell us, o atheists where that conceptual leap began and why it happened using no abstract beings but just material world events and natural forces. No tiger worships a Big Tiger in the Sky so where would human animals get the idea?

Please tell me you're joking.

Animals do not have the cognitive capacity to understand the concept of a soul or afterlife, and even if they did we wouldn't know about it because we haven't figured out how to communicate with them on that level. This is kindergarten stuff.

I can tell you where the idea of an afterlife comes from. That's easy: from endless n.d.e. reports that go back as far as written documents record human thoughts and pile up every day with more reports. I believe God consciousness is inherent in the evolution of Life and intelligence. It's where we began and where we are going.

Have you ever heard of a Christian having an NDE and seeing Allah? Or a Buddhist seeing Jesus? NDE's reflect the cultural beliefs of the person experiencing them. That leads to the conclusion that they are hallucinations driven by emotions.
gloriakim623
Posts: 13
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6/8/2015 7:59:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Let me ask you a question.....
So you believe in evolution??

The reason there had to be a deity, is because first, there are experiences. You can't deny the experiences that people have. Then you may say that they are lying. Then who gave human beings morality? There is right and wrong in this world. And most countries base their laws on this morality. So let's ask a question. Who made that morality? That raises a question in our minds. Second, look at the world around you! Can't you see the uniqueness and the complexity of this world? How can a cytoplasm evolve into this wonderful universe?

There may not be a physical proof that there is any deity, but if you see all the things around you, there has to be a supreme being that created everything.

This didn't answer much of your question, but I hope you understand.... :)
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/8/2015 9:38:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 5:36:40 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:54:25 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

All words were invented and defined by humans. People also create every imaginary thing which they label with words.
They also personify many things as mythical characters. In that sense people do create mythical gods even if they do not create the things those gods represent.

As told to you many times but your ego can't hear it, your opinion about deities and spirituality is of no merit because you have no spiritual experience of God and just spew out Skyangle's ego opinions that reflect no spiritual contact with God.

You, daniel, all the atheist egotists who post everyday trying to convince theists they can't have spiritual experiences because atheists can't , are just spiritual dumbbells, know-nothings without knowledge of what they go on and on about every day because posting to get public attention is all that matters to them--its their OCD problem that compels them to make daily fools of themselves posting opinions about phenomena none of them knows anything about but second-hand hearsay they read of others.

Dear old man. I understand your own ego convinces you that you are some kind of spiritual teacher and you want people to pay attention to you because your ego convinces you that you are more enlightened than others. You judge others thoughts as having no merit and constantly put other people down, but you seem to think yours have all the merit in the world. You sow seeds of arrogance and superiority and totally lack humility and then expect some kind of respect from others as you put them down constantly and try to make them feel as if they are somehow inferior to you? Is that the only way you can convince yourself you are so superior to others by trying to make them feel inferior to you?
I have absolutely no respect for you old man. I think you are as egotistical and arrogant as you judge me and others to be. I think you lack as much spirituality as you judge others to lack. I think your words have as much merit as you judge mine to have which is ZERO.
You have absolutely NO IDEA of what I and others have experienced in our lives regardless of whether it is spiritual experience or not. Therefore you are talking out of your own ignorance and making a total fool of yourself. GROW UP and get some wisdom instead of proving what a "spiritual dumbbell" and "know nothing" you are.
People of your age are supposed to have wisdom already but your words prove you are greatly lacking in that area. Your own OCD seems to compel you to make a daily fool of yourself by posting uninformed opinions about other peoples life experiences which you know absolutely Nothing about not even by second-hand hearsay. You merely PRESUME they have no experience in certain areas when you simply don't have a clue at all.

REPENT old man and get a REAL LIFE which contains the WISDOM, LOVE, and the UNDERSTANDING that you lack.
OR you can continue to worship and follow your own ego/god and all your presumptions which lead you astray and turns you into an old arrogant fool who follows nothing but his own delusions of superiority.

WAKE UP to yourself.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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6/10/2015 10:42:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 5:24:27 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand. Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.


Hmm...you have to be careful when you say that "we know something does exist. Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. "

Because that makes easy fodder for the hardline atheists around here. They are gonna jump on that like a pitbull on a poodle and say, 'How do we knowthat "something" (metaphysical or divine) does exist? Where is your proof?"

Just playing devil's advocate, here. But I DO agree with you that the Universe is "astoundingly complex and magnificent" and that if there WERE to be a Creator--even a Deistic variety--it too would have to be imbued with those qualities.

I think if I were trying to make you point I would just say something like " since not everything about this astoundingly complex universe can be explained, there stands a chance that there could be more to it than the merely physical and scientifcially verifiable."

Better? Less gist for the Atheist mill. LOL.

You also make a good point about, while the word "god" is of course man-made--as is religion--the larger question would be, "What possessed Man, from his earliest history, to propose a god? To seek one? To try and contact Him? Why are we seemingly hardwired with this notion if there is in fact nothing?"

I can give you the atheist neurologists' and Evolutionary Biologists' opinion on why that is (and in fact I have said it myself) but I will refrain, as that would be going off point from your OP>

Good thread!

Thanks
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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6/10/2015 10:52:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 5:36:40 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:54:25 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist.

Yes existence exists.

Something astoundingly, complex, and magnificent. Something we struggle to understand.

Existence is complex and astounding in many ways but also simple in many other ways. It can be so simple we humans take it for granted and totally overlook it.

Some call it god, others don"t know what to call it. Some just bury their head in the sand and make believe it does not exist..

Some personify existence as god. Some personify forces and powers as god. Some are referring to an invisible supernatural entity as god.
That is why the word God confuses so many people. There are many different ways of interpreting and perceiving it which include both fictional and realistic.

The word God was invented buy humans, and we gave it a definition, but we did not create the thing that inspired us to invent the word God.

All words were invented and defined by humans. People also create every imaginary thing which they label with words.
They also personify many things as mythical characters. In that sense people do create mythical gods even if they do not create the things those gods represent.

As told to you many times but your ego can't hear it, your opinion about deities and spirituality is of no merit because you have no spiritual experience of God and just spew out Skyangle's ego opinions that reflect no spiritual contact with God.

You, daniel, all the atheist egotists who post everyday trying to convince theists they can't have spiritual experiences because atheists can't , are just spiritual dumbbells, know-nothings without knowledge of what they go on and on about every day because posting to get public attention is all that matters to them--its their OCD problem that compels them to make daily fools of themselves posting opinions about phenomena none of them knows anything about but second-hand hearsay they read of others.

Of course, your claims for the spiritual are irrelevant considering you have been offered several times to explain it and teach us how to access it. Since you refused to do that, we can conclude you're simply delusional or have a mental disorder. Hence, you're done using that lame excuse. Next?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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6/10/2015 8:06:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 1:22:38 PM, drpiek wrote:
The most true statement would be, there is no evidence any deity does or does not exist, but we know something does exist.

I don't think one can prove a deity exists as a single proposition, Dr P, for the same reason you can't prove a pet exists as a single proposition.

If an animal exists and depends on you, and you seek its companionship, it's a pet.

If a metaphysical being exists and has some interest in you and you worship it, it's a deity.

In each case you have to prove three things, not one: the existence of an object; its relationship to you; and your engagement to that relationship.

Because the claim of a deity's existence is three propositions, only one of which is existential and two of which are relational, belief is not shaped merely by the existence around us.

As we can see, it's more informed by the relationships we want to have than by what's actually there. Many people like the idea of powerful agencies being interested in them, and are drawn to the idea of flattering them into being helpful, whether or not they exist. Such people wouldn't need a magnificent universe to inspire that idea: a bland basement would suffice, since the need is largely emotional.

On the other hand, people like me have no interest in such credence, even in a magnificent universe, which ours admittedly is. Even if our universe had a knowable author, I could quite well admire it in some respects, deplore it in others, and never once want to worship it.

So, I don't think the universe privileges theism nearly so much as certain kinds of cultures and temperaments do.