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Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

innomen
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8/11/2010 7:31:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
A friend of mine suggested that i read some of Hegel's work. I honestly know little to nothing about him. However the suggestion stemmed from a discussion on the nature and definition of freedom.

Does anyone have an opinion or knowledge of Hegel? 'Freedom from versus freedom to'?
Strikeeagle84015
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8/11/2010 10:54:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hegel he was the founder of the idea of dialecticals he believes that history is a force and that all things progress like this
1)A thesis is proposed
2)An antithesis is proposed
3)A synthesis is founded
4)An antithesis appears to the synthesis
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Strikeeagle84015
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8/11/2010 10:54:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
He was a big influence on Marx
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
InsertNameHere
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8/11/2010 10:58:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 10:54:37 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
He was a big influence on Marx

That's pretty much all I know about the guy, and that he was a huge developer of dialectics. Marx developed it further.
innomen
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8/11/2010 11:18:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 10:54:26 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Hegel he was the founder of the idea of dialecticals he believes that history is a force and that all things progress like this
1)A thesis is proposed
2)An antithesis is proposed
3)A synthesis is founded
4)An antithesis appears to the synthesis

Eh, well that sounds pretty dry. My friend was telling me more about the nature of freedom, and the difference between freedom from and freedom to.
Strikeeagle84015
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8/11/2010 11:20:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't know much about his ethical/legal theories but I don't like him as he was a relativist and he helped create Marx
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
innomen
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8/11/2010 11:54:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 11:20:00 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I don't know much about his ethical/legal theories but I don't like him as he was a relativist and he helped create Marx

Marx as an individual wasn't a bad man. His intentions were good, and in his time the connotations of his name were non-existent. Check out Marx and his stance on the American Civil War. He was the only prominent man in England that wanted the US to stay as a union.
Strikeeagle84015
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8/11/2010 11:57:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 11:54:42 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:20:00 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I don't know much about his ethical/legal theories but I don't like him as he was a relativist and he helped create Marx

Marx as an individual wasn't a bad man. His intentions were good, and in his time the connotations of his name were non-existent. Check out Marx and his stance on the American Civil War. He was the only prominent man in England that wanted the US to stay as a union.

Yes apart from the fact that he advocated the violent overthrow of all existing society the "liquidation" of the clergy and the upper class, he never had a job, he was an alcoholic, and he thought that rape wasn't a crime. Buy your right he wasn't a bad guy, just like Hitler wasn't (Godwin's Law)
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/11/2010 11:58:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 11:54:42 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:20:00 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I don't know much about his ethical/legal theories but I don't like him as he was a relativist and he helped create Marx

Marx as an individual wasn't a bad man. His intentions were good, and in his time the connotations of his name were non-existent. Check out Marx and his stance on the American Civil War. He was the only prominent man in England that wanted the US to stay as a union.

Yep. Even his theories sound good on paper, but unfortunately, as history has shown us, they can't be applied.
Strikeeagle84015
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8/11/2010 11:59:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 11:58:11 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:54:42 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:20:00 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I don't know much about his ethical/legal theories but I don't like him as he was a relativist and he helped create Marx

Marx as an individual wasn't a bad man. His intentions were good, and in his time the connotations of his name were non-existent. Check out Marx and his stance on the American Civil War. He was the only prominent man in England that wanted the US to stay as a union.

Yep. Even his theories sound good on paper, but unfortunately, as history has shown us, they can't be applied.

His theories don't they don't even make sense on paper look up
1)The law of Dialecticals
2)The Law of Transformation
and the law of quantitative reproduction (I think that is what they are called)
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/11/2010 12:00:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 11:59:28 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:58:11 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:54:42 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:20:00 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I don't know much about his ethical/legal theories but I don't like him as he was a relativist and he helped create Marx

Marx as an individual wasn't a bad man. His intentions were good, and in his time the connotations of his name were non-existent. Check out Marx and his stance on the American Civil War. He was the only prominent man in England that wanted the US to stay as a union.

Yep. Even his theories sound good on paper, but unfortunately, as history has shown us, they can't be applied.

His theories don't they don't even make sense on paper look up
1)The law of Dialecticals
2)The Law of Transformation
and the law of quantitative reproduction (I think that is what they are called)

I was more talking about the theories presented in the Communist Manifesto.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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8/11/2010 12:00:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If you really want to know what Marx is like read the book "The Naked Communist" by Cleon Skousen
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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8/11/2010 12:30:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
ooh, Hegel. He's a big name in continental philosophy, being an important precursor and influence to it. You'll know of him if you like Nietzsche or Heidegger (among many others), though they are his detractors ^^.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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8/11/2010 12:30:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 12:30:15 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
ooh, Hegel. He's a big name in continental philosophy, being an important precursor and influence to it. You'll know of him if you like Nietzsche or Heidegger (among many others), though they are his detractors ^^.

And yeah, that says nothing about his major ideas. I figured you can look towards an online encyclopedia of philosophy about that :P.
Strikeeagle84015
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8/11/2010 12:34:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 12:00:03 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:59:28 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:58:11 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:54:42 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:20:00 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I don't know much about his ethical/legal theories but I don't like him as he was a relativist and he helped create Marx

Marx as an individual wasn't a bad man. His intentions were good, and in his time the connotations of his name were non-existent. Check out Marx and his stance on the American Civil War. He was the only prominent man in England that wanted the US to stay as a union.

Yep. Even his theories sound good on paper, but unfortunately, as history has shown us, they can't be applied.

His theories don't they don't even make sense on paper look up
1)The law of Dialecticals
2)The Law of Transformation
and the law of quantitative reproduction (I think that is what they are called)

I was more talking about the theories presented in the Communist Manifesto.

The ideas presented in the communist manifesto wanted to kill everyone who believed in religion and assumed that for some reason the proletariat was a great and higher form of being than everyone else
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/11/2010 1:29:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 11:57:32 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:54:42 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/11/2010 11:20:00 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I don't know much about his ethical/legal theories but I don't like him as he was a relativist and he helped create Marx

Marx as an individual wasn't a bad man. His intentions were good, and in his time the connotations of his name were non-existent. Check out Marx and his stance on the American Civil War. He was the only prominent man in England that wanted the US to stay as a union.

Yes apart from the fact that he advocated the violent overthrow of all existing society the "liquidation" of the clergy and the upper class, he never had a job, he was an alcoholic, and he thought that rape wasn't a crime. Buy your right he wasn't a bad guy, just like Hitler wasn't (Godwin's Law)

Well, if you're going to nit pick.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/11/2010 2:41:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 12:34:51 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

The ideas presented in the communist manifesto wanted to kill everyone who believed in religion and assumed that for some reason the proletariat was a great and higher form of being than everyone else

Have you ever actually read the communist manifesto or anything else by Marx? It doesn't call for the killing of all religious people. It does, however, favour a secular state as Marx viewed religion as "The opiate of the people" being used by the bourgeoisie to control the masses. Of course, in theory, these things don't work as certain communist leaders did end up killing and persecuting religious leaders.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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8/11/2010 3:04:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 2:41:17 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 12:34:51 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

The ideas presented in the communist manifesto wanted to kill everyone who believed in religion and assumed that for some reason the proletariat was a great and higher form of being than everyone else

Have you ever actually read the communist manifesto or anything else by Marx? It doesn't call for the killing of all religious people. It does, however, favour a secular state as Marx viewed religion as "The opiate of the people" being used by the bourgeoisie to control the masses. Of course, in theory, these things don't work as certain communist leaders did end up killing and persecuting religious leaders.

I did read the Communist Manifesto several times, and in it he calls for the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" in transitioning from capitalism to anarcho communism. Now technically he didn't actually say kill the religious he said kill anyone that doesn't agree or is in any way a hindrance to the Communist cause.
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/11/2010 3:12:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 3:04:24 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 2:41:17 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 12:34:51 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

The ideas presented in the communist manifesto wanted to kill everyone who believed in religion and assumed that for some reason the proletariat was a great and higher form of being than everyone else

Have you ever actually read the communist manifesto or anything else by Marx? It doesn't call for the killing of all religious people. It does, however, favour a secular state as Marx viewed religion as "The opiate of the people" being used by the bourgeoisie to control the masses. Of course, in theory, these things don't work as certain communist leaders did end up killing and persecuting religious leaders.

I did read the Communist Manifesto several times, and in it he calls for the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" in transitioning from capitalism to anarcho communism. Now technically he didn't actually say kill the religious he said kill anyone that doesn't agree or is in any way a hindrance to the Communist cause.

Well he didn't even say kill opposition, but again, that is what happened.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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8/12/2010 11:46:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 3:12:15 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 3:04:24 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 2:41:17 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 12:34:51 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

The ideas presented in the communist manifesto wanted to kill everyone who believed in religion and assumed that for some reason the proletariat was a great and higher form of being than everyone else

Have you ever actually read the communist manifesto or anything else by Marx? It doesn't call for the killing of all religious people. It does, however, favour a secular state as Marx viewed religion as "The opiate of the people" being used by the bourgeoisie to control the masses. Of course, in theory, these things don't work as certain communist leaders did end up killing and persecuting religious leaders.

I did read the Communist Manifesto several times, and in it he calls for the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" in transitioning from capitalism to anarcho communism. Now technically he didn't actually say kill the religious he said kill anyone that doesn't agree or is in any way a hindrance to the Communist cause.

Well he didn't even say kill opposition, but again, that is what happened.

Yes he did. That is what the morality of someone who is really Marxist is. Anything that furthers the Communist goal is acceptable and must be done.
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/12/2010 5:28:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 11:46:35 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 3:12:15 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:

Well he didn't even say kill opposition, but again, that is what happened.

Yes he did. That is what the morality of someone who is really Marxist is. Anything that furthers the Communist goal is acceptable and must be done.

Sure, but he still didn't say "kill all opposition". Nowhere once have I seen those words in the communist manifesto. However, to go back to the point you made about "Dictatorship of the proletariat" it is intended to suppress the previously overthrown bourgeoisie to prevent an uprising, but that doesn't necessarily mean kill them.
Danielle
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8/12/2010 5:58:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 12:30:15 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
know of him if you like Nietzsche or Heidegger (among many others), though they are his detractors ^^.

Nietzsche did not like Hegel...
President of DDO
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/12/2010 6:03:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 5:58:13 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 8/11/2010 12:30:15 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
know of him if you like Nietzsche or Heidegger (among many others), though they are his detractors ^^.

Nietzsche did not like Hegel...
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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8/12/2010 7:13:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 5:28:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/12/2010 11:46:35 AM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 3:12:15 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:

Well he didn't even say kill opposition, but again, that is what happened.

Yes he did. That is what the morality of someone who is really Marxist is. Anything that furthers the Communist goal is acceptable and must be done.

Sure, but he still didn't say "kill all opposition". Nowhere once have I seen those words in the communist manifesto. However, to go back to the point you made about "Dictatorship of the proletariat" it is intended to suppress the previously overthrown bourgeoisie to prevent an uprising, but that doesn't necessarily mean kill them.

How else would you go about suppressing a revolution, especially when you don't believe in any morality besides. "That which furthers the cause is justified"
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/12/2010 7:19:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 2:41:17 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 12:34:51 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:

The ideas presented in the communist manifesto wanted to kill everyone who believed in religion and assumed that for some reason the proletariat was a great and higher form of being than everyone else

Have you ever actually read the communist manifesto or anything else by Marx? It doesn't call for the killing of all religious people. It does, however, favour a secular state as Marx viewed religion as "The opiate of the people" being used by the bourgeoisie to control the masses. Of course, in theory, these things don't work as certain communist leaders did end up killing and persecuting religious leaders.

supposedly what he meant by that oft quoted line was not what you are implying. from what i've read, it actually appears that he meant religion is something that spontaneously arises when people are suffering, something that is chosen, and something that will fall away into uselessness when people are no longer miserable. then again, what i've read is the communist manifesto and christopher hitchens on the topic of marx sooooo... not an expert by any means....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Anarcho
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8/12/2010 7:45:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 3:04:24 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I did read the Communist Manifesto several times, and in it he calls for the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" in transitioning from capitalism to anarcho communism. Now technically he didn't actually say kill the religious he said kill anyone that doesn't agree or is in any way a hindrance to the Communist cause.

Have you really read it? Because you would know that the "Dictator ship of the Proletariat" is supposed to mean Socialism and leads to Communism. Anarchist Communism skips Socialism.
InsertNameHere wrote: "If we evolved from apes then why are apes still around?

This is semi-serious btw. It's something that seems strange to me. You'd think that entire species would cease to exist if other ones evolved from them."

Anarcho wrote: *facepalm*
Strikeeagle84015
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8/12/2010 7:47:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 7:45:02 PM, Anarcho wrote:
At 8/11/2010 3:04:24 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
I did read the Communist Manifesto several times, and in it he calls for the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" in transitioning from capitalism to anarcho communism. Now technically he didn't actually say kill the religious he said kill anyone that doesn't agree or is in any way a hindrance to the Communist cause.

Have you really read it? Because you would know that the "Dictator ship of the Proletariat" is supposed to mean Socialism and leads to Communism. Anarchist Communism skips Socialism.

Marx said that the Socialist state aka Dictatorship of the Proletariat was a necessary step in the creation of Anarcho Communism society
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.