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What is heaven?

Nicoszon_the_Great
Posts: 167
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6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there?
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/8/2015 7:29:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there?

Trust me when I say that you are very unlikely to find anything here from these people that will satisfy you in your quest to ascertain what heaven might be like. They will be of little help, as this forum is practically bereft of agnostic and objective Free Thinkers, or more importantly, those who have had full and sincere religious experiences.

Most of 'em are either hardline embittered skeptics with too much time on their hands, or total non-credible religious zealots.

Heaven, like sprituality, is a very personal thing. Do some basic reading or Net research on the main World Religions. Don't forget the Eastern ones, like Buddhism and Taoism. (They often appeal to lapsed christians, I have found.)

Then when you find one that is palatable, check out their version of it.

Then add to that, what you personally would like to have included in your own Heaven. Be sincere on this.

Then just contemplate it when you have some quiet time. Don't look a this whole deal as if you are doing some sort of a research paper, or a test for your 'rents. Just be true to your own ideals and your gut.

You may be one of the lucky ones who seeks and finds!

Best of luck, amigo.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Nicoszon_the_Great
Posts: 167
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6/8/2015 7:33:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:29:34 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there?


Trust me when I say that you are very unlikely to find anything here from these people that will satisfy you in your quest to ascertain what heaven might be like. They will be of little help, as this forum is practically bereft of agnostic and objective Free Thinkers, or more importantly, those who have had full and sincere religious experiences.

Most of 'em are either hardline embittered skeptics with too much time on their hands, or total non-credible religious zealots.

Heaven, like sprituality, is a very personal thing. Do some basic reading or Net research on the main World Religions. Don't forget the Eastern ones, like Buddhism and Taoism. (They often appeal to lapsed christians, I have found.)

Then when you find one that is palatable, check out their version of it.

Then add to that, what you personally would like to have included in your own Heaven. Be sincere on this.

Then just contemplate it when you have some quiet time. Don't look a this whole deal as if you are doing some sort of a research paper, or a test for your 'rents. Just be true to your own ideals and your gut.

You may be one of the lucky ones who seeks and finds!

Best of luck, amigo.

I'm aware of the populous of this forum, but thanks, haha.

I have done some research, but honestly the concept of an afterlife doesn't actually interest me. I'm more interested in the relation between someone's perception of the afterlife and their treatment of other people and criticism. So hopefully some of the regulars comment here so I can take mental notes on other threads they move into.
4runner
Posts: 103
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6/8/2015 9:25:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there? : :

Heaven is not a place that we go to. It's just a symbolic term for God's creation which is invisible to man. Earth is the visible world we experience but heaven is the energy that makes the world visible and gives us the illusion of time and movement.

A new heaven and earth is planned for the future.
Nicoszon_the_Great
Posts: 167
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6/8/2015 10:39:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 9:25:03 PM, 4runner wrote:
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there? : :

Heaven is not a place that we go to. It's just a symbolic term for God's creation which is invisible to man. Earth is the visible world we experience but heaven is the energy that makes the world visible and gives us the illusion of time and movement.

A new heaven and earth is planned for the future.

So what exactly is meant when the bible refers to heaven as a place? In revelations it references to God and Jesus rallying the angels and breaking the seven seals and at one point Abraham is brought back from heaven as a spectre. I haven't a source on hand so those may be inaccurate, disclaimer.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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6/8/2015 10:47:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Heaven/Paradise and Hell are both states of mind and can also become a Reality as can other concepts.

Most are not interested in venturing BEYOND the popular known world in person so they find others or make up "things" and concepts so that they might feel whole and secure and try and convince themselves and any others that they are on the correct path.

The "realm" beyond the superstitious inspired concepts is where you find Heaven. The "realm" that people CHOOSE to exist in is Hell if they are confused, lost and plagued by doubt.

I understand the feelings, moods, drives and such that humans can have. Most are trying to be something that is NOT REAL but just an illusion as are most "things" in a world that likes it's deceptions and lies called good aka fantasy and fiction as a means of ESCAPE from what deluded people fear and feel uncomfortable about for their various reasons.

I learned to understand my feelings, moods, drives and such so that I could CHOOSE what I "fed" them with and how I balanced out my personal Life.

When you have others that are having others and so on doing your important thinking and making your personal choices for you.

You end up with the blind leading the blind.

If I was to tell people about my day to day Life they wouldn't believe me or they would be sick with jealousy and envy.

Life is what YOU make it is very TRUE

and when YOU FAKE it you end up trying to exist in a Hell dreaming of the escape of Heaven.

The world can imprison your body without your permission or choice,

but your mind and thoughts can ONLY be imprisoned IF YOU allow it by letting others do what YOU should do yourself.

If a person can't build a solid foundation under themselves in mind and spirit they will never be able to build anything but illusion and faulty dreams.

If you can't love yourself,
HOW can you love others any better?

If YOU don't have a CLEAR understanding of yourself,
HOW can you have a better understanding of others?

The path to Heaven is a narrow path indeed.

but the path has plenty of elbow room.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
dee-em
Posts: 6,468
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6/8/2015 10:48:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there?

They don't have a clue. Ask a thousand Christians what their concept of heaven is and you'll get a thousand different answers.

Jesus never said anything about humans going to heaven. His kingdom was going to be established right here on Earth.
4runner
Posts: 103
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6/9/2015 12:38:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 10:39:41 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
At 6/8/2015 9:25:03 PM, 4runner wrote:
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there? : :

Heaven is not a place that we go to. It's just a symbolic term for God's creation which is invisible to man. Earth is the visible world we experience but heaven is the energy that makes the world visible and gives us the illusion of time and movement.

A new heaven and earth is planned for the future.

So what exactly is meant when the bible refers to heaven as a place? In revelations it references to God and Jesus rallying the angels and breaking the seven seals and at one point Abraham is brought back from heaven as a spectre. I haven't a source on hand so those may be inaccurate, disclaimer. : :

The Bible doesn't refer anything. It's a book with words in it that can only be understood by God. If God hasn't spoken to you in audible words within your mind, then you're not chosen to understand the prophecies. That is why you call yourself an atheist.
ClashnBoom
Posts: 886
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6/9/2015 7:39:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there?

We are gonna watch you burn. But in all seriousness the Bible states it will be something unimaginable. But I think it will be like the Christian conference I attended.
I will change my sig weekly. Week 4.

Fun fact of the week
Clumsy alien Jar Jar Binks was introduced in The Phantom Menace for comic relief, but he was initially a two-faced mercenary who was to betray Qui-Gon Jinn, a Jedi Master played by Liam Neeson.

Joke of the week:
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Nerd 2: : "Cause they make everything up!"
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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6/9/2015 8:04:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
St Peter was showing a bunch of new recruits the delights of heaven. There were things to suit all tastes, even a gay bar. Most popular were the wine tasting sessions, which Jesus had set up, he was particularly proud of his Chateau Heaven vintage, being of course an expert in viticulture.

A carriage, pulled by eight white horses, stopped beside the group, and out got the most beautiful woman they had ever seen. St Peter bowed low and introduced her, "This is God"! The recruits gasped, "Don't worry, you will soon get used to the idea", she grinned!

At the end of the tour the recruits were shown a tin shack from which emanated the sound of hoarse discordant singing. St Peter explained, " That is reserved for 'born again' Christians who think they are the only inhabitants of heaven, we don't like to disappoint them so they can sing God's praises for all eternity. One puzzled new arrival queried how they reacted to God being a woman. "Ah" said St Peter, "Now that is our very cunning plan. Not everyone can enter into the delights of heaven immediately if they have been very bad whilst on earth. They must serve a term playing God for the 'born agains", the length of which depends on the wickedness of their crimes. As the actor is always hidden in a blaze of light, they are none the wiser when a change over takes place. However heinous the crime, the perpetrator is deemed to have served their sentence after a few Millennia of listening to that lot 'singing God's praises!"

RJG
Nicoszon_the_Great
Posts: 167
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6/9/2015 11:55:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 12:38:53 AM, 4runner wrote:
At 6/8/2015 10:39:41 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
At 6/8/2015 9:25:03 PM, 4runner wrote:
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there? : :

Heaven is not a place that we go to. It's just a symbolic term for God's creation which is invisible to man. Earth is the visible world we experience but heaven is the energy that makes the world visible and gives us the illusion of time and movement.

A new heaven and earth is planned for the future.

So what exactly is meant when the bible refers to heaven as a place? In revelations it references to God and Jesus rallying the angels and breaking the seven seals and at one point Abraham is brought back from heaven as a spectre. I haven't a source on hand so those may be inaccurate, disclaimer. : :

The Bible doesn't refer anything. It's a book with words in it that can only be understood by God. If God hasn't spoken to you in audible words within your mind, then you're not chosen to understand the prophecies. That is why you call yourself an atheist.

If the voices in my head don't translate an ancient text for me then I'm resigned to burn in hell forever?

Interesting way of looking at it.
4runner
Posts: 103
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6/9/2015 12:04:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 11:55:50 AM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
At 6/9/2015 12:38:53 AM, 4runner wrote:
At 6/8/2015 10:39:41 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
At 6/8/2015 9:25:03 PM, 4runner wrote:
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there? : :

Heaven is not a place that we go to. It's just a symbolic term for God's creation which is invisible to man. Earth is the visible world we experience but heaven is the energy that makes the world visible and gives us the illusion of time and movement.

A new heaven and earth is planned for the future.

So what exactly is meant when the bible refers to heaven as a place? In revelations it references to God and Jesus rallying the angels and breaking the seven seals and at one point Abraham is brought back from heaven as a spectre. I haven't a source on hand so those may be inaccurate, disclaimer. : :

The Bible doesn't refer anything. It's a book with words in it that can only be understood by God. If God hasn't spoken to you in audible words within your mind, then you're not chosen to understand the prophecies. That is why you call yourself an atheist.

If the voices in my head don't translate an ancient text for me then I'm resigned to burn in hell forever?

Interesting way of looking at it. : :

There is no hell so don't worry about going there. All our bodies will die in this world. Then we all wake up in new bodies on the new earth as indicated in this following prophecy;

Ezekiel 37:
1: The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley; it was full of bones.
2: And he led me round among them; and behold, there were very many upon the valley; and lo, they were very dry.
3: And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, thou knowest."
4: Again he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5: Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live.
6: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the LORD."
7: So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold, a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to its bone.
8: And as I looked, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them; but there was no breath in them.
9: Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live."
10: So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great host.
11: Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, `Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off.'
12: Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people; and I will bring you home into the land of Israel.
13: And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.
14: And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken, and I have done it, says the LORD."
Geogeer
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6/9/2015 12:14:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there?

But, as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him. - 1 Corinthians 2:9.

So we really don't know. However we will receive the beatific vision which is the perfection of beauty and the satisfaction of the soul. As we are finite and God is infinite, there will always be more to learn and understand.
12_13
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6/9/2015 1:34:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there?

I don"t know much about heaven, but" "Bible says about God"s Kingdom this:

for the Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Romans 14:17

I believe Heaven is place of pure love, because:

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

Because of that, there is no evil. I think that makes many things possible.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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6/9/2015 2:06:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Heaven" is a term used by Christians to denote some idyllic afterlife they will live after they have shed their mortal forms. It has evolved as new knowledge has demonstrated one after another of its definitions to be false. It was originally up in the sky as Yahweh was originally a sky god and it was his home that the faithful would be taken to. It had streets of gold and ran with milk and honey. I guess that's the best those primitive minds could come up with for paradise. Muslims, well Muslim men, get a palace stocked with hot and cold running virgins, seventy-two if memory serves.
They still stick with that one.

Once we began to fly and found out that heaven wasn't up there (and incidentally that no gods lived on Mount Olympus or any other place we examined), a new definition had to be created. Thus began the 'heaven is just earth after Jesus returns and defeats Satan' or 'heaven is a state of mind' or 'heaven is another dimension' or any of the hundred other ways that Christians and other religions have defined it. So what I'm saying is that heaven is whatever the particular sect or branch or denomination of whatever religion is using the word wants it to be so they can continue to feel special and that their version of god won't let them die permanently.
MagicAintReal
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6/9/2015 3:21:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:14:10 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:
So, growing up in Sunday schools and with a religious family, I developed the understanding that heaven was where people worshipped Jesus for eternity. Of course at that point the only source of worship that I knew was evangelise and going to church to learn and sing. So with no one to preach to, nothing new to learn, and no basic needs of any kind heaven sounded like we'd all sit around praising and singing at God. This, to me anyway, sounds very unappealing and always set doubt in my mind. Now that I'm an Atheist I've been urged by family to try and build a 'new understanding' of the religion before tossing it aside entirely. So far I'm utterly unconvinced by it all but this is still a question I'd like answered.

The f$3;ck are you all going to be doing up there?

Heaven is the answer given by may religious people to ease the emotional pain of death especially for children. Now, according to the main religions, what do they say heaven is? Heaven is a realm for your soul to exist after you have died physically. Due to the ambiguous nature of the current main religions' texts, and their related works, interpretations of what this realm is like are extremely different. The problem is once you let in supernatural ideas, literally anything goes.