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The Logical Conclusion - Nihilism

PeacefulChaos
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6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.
Nicoszon_the_Great
Posts: 167
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6/8/2015 7:50:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.

Firstly, morality and the gods are not mutually exclusive. Nor is purpose.
I personally am driven by that which I find beautiful and inspiring, meaning: my potential children, Transhumanism, and the desire to attain power. All of which I can see a natural explanation for as well as a personal psychological explanation. I have these beliefs and motivation because I choose to. I want them, therefor I shall.

The point of all this is, if you choose to see no point in doing anything then that is your choice but regardless of the grandiose purpose behind your actions you do have the option to do what you want simply because you fuggin want to.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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6/8/2015 8:19:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.

Since most of us who don't believe in gods are moral and good people, I can only think that you never learned how to be moral or gained real moral understanding. You only learned how to avoid punishment and seek reward. This is the way in which certain religions poisons morality.

Without your belief in god, you wouldn't care for other people? You wouldn't empathize with their pain suffering, or feel joy when they're happy? I think you would. This is demonstrably innate to almost all humans. We even care about strangers.

Or would you kill and hurt people without a care if you didn't believe in a god? If so, you have an antisocial personality disorder.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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6/8/2015 9:16:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.

It's important for me to do good things because it gives me pleasure to see others happy, and it's important for me to avoid doing bad things because it makes me feel horrible when bad things happen to others. Since I prefer feeling happy, and do not like feeling horrible, the rest is very simple.

If there is one thing I never understood it is why theists need an authority figure imposing a purpose on them in order to feel a sense of purpose, or why they need an authority telling them what is good or bad in order to feel a sense of morality. It seems to me that religion teaches us to feel so inferior that we are unable to grasp the concept of deciding these things for ourselves.

I suppose if I could offer any advice it would be to think of yourself as a billionaire doing whatever you think you would be doing with it. Perhaps you would be running a huge company, or helping the needy. Then imagine that you lose it, and find yourself with a measly $500K. There are two ways to handle this: you can either drown yourself in sorrow thinking about all you've lost and wind up jumping off a building, or you can ask yourself what you can accomplish with $500K, set new goals for yourself and go out there and make it happen.

I understand that reducing yourself to a measly physical existence may seem like a huge loss, but instead of jumping off a building while having more than most people ever will you can accept what you have and work with it. There are a lot of things you can do with this life, worry about that.
RuvDraba
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6/8/2015 9:25:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism.

So, PC -- animists, Buddhists and people of traditional indigenous spirituality are also nihilists? Because they also lack belief in a god.

Or did you only intend to malign atheists, and ignorantly and unintentionally overstate your case?

Might sociological study not consistently show that it is possible to find meaning, purpose, community identity, the value of compassion, sacrifice, a place in the world and significance for deepening oneself as a human being without belief in a paternalistic supervisory creator?

Might the issue not be some innate limit to human psychology, but your lack of interest, research and imagination?

Perhaps you'd like to commit some more effort to research and thought from outside your creed before pursuing this line.
Ramshutu
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6/8/2015 9:26:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.

You cannot buy something with Monopoly Money; it has no intrinsic value, you cannot trade it for food, for commodities; and as such it is objectively worthless. Monopoly locations and properties have no intrinsic objective worth either; for the same reason.

However, just because this is the case does not mean there is no reason to steal everyone elses monopoly money during a game, take all the game locations for and buildings for yourself.
Fly
Posts: 2,044
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6/8/2015 9:27:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Conversely, you could also ask why about 97% or so of convicts in US prisons believe in God.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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6/8/2015 9:27:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 9:25:28 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism.

So, PC -- animists, Buddhists and people of traditional indigenous spirituality are also nihilists? Because they also lack belief in a god.

Or did you only intend to malign atheists, and ignorantly and unintentionally overstate your case?

Might sociological study not consistently show that it is possible to find meaning, purpose, community identity, the value of compassion, sacrifice, a place in the world and significance for deepening oneself as a human being without belief in a paternalistic supervisory creator?

Might the issue not be some innate limit to human psychology, but your lack of interest, research and imagination?

Perhaps you'd like to commit some more effort to research and thought from outside your creed before pursuing this line.

Seconded. Nice and concise.
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
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6/9/2015 12:06:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.

I'm gonna take a different stance here than some of the others that have responded.

Nihilism, more precisely moral nihilism, is perfectly fine in my book. I don't know why you have such a problem with moral nihilism since all it really means is that morality is a human construct lacking any objective truth. That doesn't mean you can't have preferences like a peaceful society, security, people behaving kindly toward each other, etc... since those things will improve your life. It also doesn't mean that you have no reason to be good to others. It simply erases the concept that actions are objectively right or wrong. Actions may be good or bad for society, for you, for others, undesirable due to the outcomes they create, or may have no value at all. This simplifies life because I can say that I don't care what a gay couple does in their bedroom, what a someone with a foot fetish does, etc... It simply has no moral value. I can accept them as fellow humans without judging their actions or them.

There is a strong feeling of preference as to how I'd like to be treated and so a group of people can get together and form a society based on those preferences (social contract theory). There is also good reason to treat others around you with kindness without the threat of eternal damnation. It improves your status among your peers and the good will they hold towards you. etc.....

Purpose; why do you think purpose is necessary? The existentialists thinkers grapple with this issue quite a bit and I'll borrow some of their thinking to explain my own point of view. I believe essence follows existence. Meaning that our purpose is shaped by our thoughts, experiences, etc... rather than our existence being defined by our purpose. Jean Paul Sartre came up with that little nugget. It's basically a really fancy way of saying, I create my own purpose, purpose doesn't create me; I am free to be who and what I want to be based on my own free will and faculties.
mrsatan
Posts: 424
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6/9/2015 12:30:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.

Whether or not there is a God, whether or not reality is truly real, we experience it. Is it important to do good things? Maybe, maybe not. If you want to live in a world where people treat others kindly, then it is important for you to do so because you are one of those people. If you don't care how people treat others, then it is not important.

Much like morality, importance is subjective. It's contingent upon what is desired. In my experience, most people want to be treated kindly. People are more likely to treat you kindly if you treat them kindly. Therefore, if you want to be treated kindly, it is important to treat others kindly.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
Envisage
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6/9/2015 2:16:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.

Here is my life philosophy:
http://xkcd.com...
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:10:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:50:18 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:

Firstly, morality and the gods are not mutually exclusive. Nor is purpose.
I personally am driven by that which I find beautiful and inspiring, meaning: my potential children, Transhumanism, and the desire to attain power. All of which I can see a natural explanation for as well as a personal psychological explanation. I have these beliefs and motivation because I choose to. I want them, therefor I shall.

The point of all this is, if you choose to see no point in doing anything then that is your choice but regardless of the grandiose purpose behind your actions you do have the option to do what you want simply because you fuggin want to.

That's good! I don't disagree with your stance on life at all, and it seems that the majority of comments in this thread follow a similar path - their purpose in life is based on what makes them happy, inspired, what they find to be beautiful, etc., and their sense of morality also comes from these things; however, while it is good that people make their own purpose in life, doesn't this imply that life is meaningless in the first place?
DanneJeRusse
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6/9/2015 10:13:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 10:10:55 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 6/8/2015 7:50:18 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:

Firstly, morality and the gods are not mutually exclusive. Nor is purpose.
I personally am driven by that which I find beautiful and inspiring, meaning: my potential children, Transhumanism, and the desire to attain power. All of which I can see a natural explanation for as well as a personal psychological explanation. I have these beliefs and motivation because I choose to. I want them, therefor I shall.

The point of all this is, if you choose to see no point in doing anything then that is your choice but regardless of the grandiose purpose behind your actions you do have the option to do what you want simply because you fuggin want to.

That's good! I don't disagree with your stance on life at all, and it seems that the majority of comments in this thread follow a similar path - their purpose in life is based on what makes them happy, inspired, what they find to be beautiful, etc., and their sense of morality also comes from these things; however, while it is good that people make their own purpose in life, doesn't this imply that life is meaningless in the first place?

How so? By what comparison?

If folks here can provide ample reasons why their lives have purpose and meaning, then that would show life is not meaningless.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:14:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 8:19:15 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:

Since most of us who don't believe in gods are moral and good people, I can only think that you never learned how to be moral or gained real moral understanding. You only learned how to avoid punishment and seek reward. This is the way in which certain religions poisons morality.

That's a very bold assumption, but is somewhat irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Instead, I'd like to ask on what do you base your morality? Clearly, most of you are good and moral, but what is it based on? Is it based on what you feel is right, or is it based on a secular moral system?


Without your belief in god, you wouldn't care for other people? You wouldn't empathize with their pain suffering, or feel joy when they're happy? I think you would. This is demonstrably innate to almost all humans. We even care about strangers.

I agree with you.
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:19:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 9:16:30 PM, Double_R wrote:

It's important for me to do good things because it gives me pleasure to see others happy, and it's important for me to avoid doing bad things because it makes me feel horrible when bad things happen to others. Since I prefer feeling happy, and do not like feeling horrible, the rest is very simple.

Makes sense to me. But in the end, what purpose is there to life? Yes, I know that most people will live life simply because they want to and it makes them happy (I certainly don't want to die yet), but once we all die, what purpose did it serve for us to live? Of course we may have left marks in the progress of humanity, but why is this important? Beyond feeling positive emotions such as happiness, is there anything else that is important in life? Or do you make your purpose in life based on what makes you inspired, happy, etc., just as you do good based on these things?
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:24:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 9:25:28 PM, RuvDraba wrote:

So, PC -- animists, Buddhists and people of traditional indigenous spirituality are also nihilists? Because they also lack belief in a god.

Hm, I don't really recall saying that people who don't believe in God are automatically nihilists. Instead, I wanted to say that I personally reached that conclusion given the assumption of no God. And while it is debatable if Buddhists lack a belief in God, it is rather irrelevant to the topic. I hope this clears up the miscommunication.


Or did you only intend to malign atheists, and ignorantly and unintentionally overstate your case?

Did I speak badly of atheists? If I did, my apologies. I thought I was asking for what purpose people found in life. I've gotten some good responses so far. I found much of your reply somewhat offensive, but now that we've cleared things up, I hope we understand each other.
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:26:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 9:26:23 PM, Ramshutu wrote:

You cannot buy something with Monopoly Money; it has no intrinsic value, you cannot trade it for food, for commodities; and as such it is objectively worthless. Monopoly locations and properties have no intrinsic objective worth either; for the same reason.

However, just because this is the case does not mean there is no reason to steal everyone elses monopoly money during a game, take all the game locations for and buildings for yourself.

lol, nice analogy. I love playing Monopoly. But although I love to play it, when the game is finished, it doesn't matter who won or who lost, because the game is over. It does not have a significant impact on us. The only reason to play Monopoly is because it is something that makes me happy, but beyond that there is nothing else. It seems that most people's view on life is similar - they do what they do based on what makes them happy, and that's all there is to it.
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:27:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 9:27:26 PM, Fly wrote:
Conversely, you could also ask why about 97% or so of convicts in US prisons believe in God.

Perhaps it is because the vast majority of people in the U.S. believe in God.

Regardless, that seems largely irrelevant to the thread. Thank you for sharing, though.
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:36:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 12:06:40 AM, Sosoconfused wrote:

Purpose; why do you think purpose is necessary?

Without purpose, why should I take action? There is no reason. That is why I made the thread. It seems that most people take action because, ultimately, it makes them happy. But beyond this subjective purpose, there is no other. I already agree with most of the above post, and it would seem by the way that you've described moral nihilism (although, that seems to be existentialism from my understanding, not moral nihilism) that most people are already nihilists/existentialists. Or am I wrong? This is what I have gathered from most responses in this thread.

The existentialists thinkers grapple with this issue quite a bit and I'll borrow some of their thinking to explain my own point of view. I believe essence follows existence. Meaning that our purpose is shaped by our thoughts, experiences, etc... rather than our existence being defined by our purpose. Jean Paul Sartre came up with that little nugget. It's basically a really fancy way of saying, I create my own purpose, purpose doesn't create me; I am free to be who and what I want to be based on my own free will and faculties.

This seems to be the shared sentiment among everyone in this thread. Thanks for sharing.
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:38:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 10:13:35 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

How so? By what comparison?

If folks here can provide ample reasons why their lives have purpose and meaning, then that would show life is not meaningless.

I believe nearly everyone here has said something to the effect that they form their own purpose in life based on what makes them happy.

If I have to make my own purpose in life, then that means there was no purpose there to begin with (since I had to make it).

Doesn't that make sense?
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 10:42:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 12:06:40 AM, Sosoconfused wrote:

Purpose; why do you think purpose is necessary? The existentialists thinkers grapple with this issue quite a bit and I'll borrow some of their thinking to explain my own point of view. I believe essence follows existence. Meaning that our purpose is shaped by our thoughts, experiences, etc... rather than our existence being defined by our purpose. Jean Paul Sartre came up with that little nugget. It's basically a really fancy way of saying, I create my own purpose, purpose doesn't create me; I am free to be who and what I want to be based on my own free will and faculties.

Also, I'd like to thank you again for posting, because it prompted me to search the differences between existentialism and nihilism. It would seem that existentialism is probably a better life philosophy than nihilism, in my opinion.
DanneJeRusse
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6/9/2015 10:59:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 10:38:57 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 6/9/2015 10:13:35 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

How so? By what comparison?

If folks here can provide ample reasons why their lives have purpose and meaning, then that would show life is not meaningless.

I believe nearly everyone here has said something to the effect that they form their own purpose in life based on what makes them happy.

If I have to make my own purpose in life, then that means there was no purpose there to begin with (since I had to make it).

Doesn't that make sense?

Or, on the flip side, the purpose to life is to find your own individual meaning and purposes, hence these people were simply fulfilling that purpose.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 11:15:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 10:59:46 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Or, on the flip side, the purpose to life is to find your own individual meaning and purposes, hence these people were simply fulfilling that purpose.

How can you prove that the purpose in life is to find your own purpose?

Without any objective guideline or entity, that's purely a subjective purpose that you have made, which again implies that there is no intrinsic purpose to life (since ... you made it).
dhardage
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6/9/2015 11:15:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 7:43:28 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
If I were to assume that there was not an entity such as the one commonly called God, I reach only one logical conclusion, and that is nihilism. No matter how I try to reason it out in my head, there is no point in doing anything moral or good and there is no point in life. If our existence is limited to this physical world, what purpose does it serve to help humanity progress? Honestly, nihilism is a very poisoning belief that gives me a rather negative attitude on life, but given the above assumption, it seems to be the logical conclusion.

That is why I wanted to ask those who do not believe in God why they follow certain moral principles or why they do not default to nihilism. I hope this topic is not offensive to anyone, but I think it's important for me to understand why it's important to do good things if there is no entity such as God. Thanks.

Most of us follow the morals we were taught as children. Share with others, help out when you can, don't steal, don't hit, don't kill, etc. They are rules by which an individual and a society can operate and protect the well being of its members. These rules are in place because we are social creatures and will almost always seek to live with or near others of our kind. Good morals, i.e. those that increase both the well being of the individual and the society, are a survival trait and we of the human race are survivors. If you need an authority figure to keep you from raping, robbing, killing, or other such criminal acts then you are a sociopath at best. I somehow doubt that you would suddenly become a serial killer just because you decided there was no god or gods.

As for purpose, that's your responsibility. Mine is to be happy and to do my best to make those I care for happy as much as I can. My legacy will be the memories of those I have met and interacted with. It's up to me whether that's a good legacy or a bad one. My body will decay and return to its basic components which will, eventually, be reabsorbed and utilized by the plants that grow where I'm buried. In a way we are all immortal since we always return to the world that gave us birth.
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 11:28:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 11:15:46 AM, dhardage wrote:

Most of us follow the morals we were taught as children. Share with others, help out when you can, don't steal, don't hit, don't kill, etc. They are rules by which an individual and a society can operate and protect the well being of its members. These rules are in place because we are social creatures and will almost always seek to live with or near others of our kind. Good morals, i.e. those that increase both the well being of the individual and the society, are a survival trait and we of the human race are survivors.

Why is it important that we survive? And why is it important that a stable society exists? Beyond fulfilling our own desires and being happy, there doesn't seem to be any other reason.

If you need an authority figure to keep you from raping, robbing, killing, or other such criminal acts then you are a sociopath at best. I somehow doubt that you would suddenly become a serial killer just because you decided there was no god or gods.

Yeah, I also don't think I'd become a serial killer. I don't know why people keep saying that. The situation is kind of like this:

"Hey, why aren't you a nihilist or existentialist?"

"Don't worry man you won't become a serial killer, okay?"

"Yeah .... okay."


As for purpose, that's your responsibility. Mine is to be happy and to do my best to make those I care for happy as much as I can. My legacy will be the memories of those I have met and interacted with. It's up to me whether that's a good legacy or a bad one. My body will decay and return to its basic components which will, eventually, be reabsorbed and utilized by the plants that grow where I'm buried. In a way we are all immortal since we always return to the world that gave us birth.

It's good that you've got your own purpose, and it's a great purpose in my opinion. And yes, I suppose you could say we are immortal in that sense.
DanneJeRusse
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6/9/2015 11:28:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 11:15:06 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 6/9/2015 10:59:46 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Or, on the flip side, the purpose to life is to find your own individual meaning and purposes, hence these people were simply fulfilling that purpose.

How can you prove that the purpose in life is to find your own purpose?

Simple, the vast majority of people on the planet who find purpose in their lives is more than enough proof.

Without any objective guideline or entity, that's purely a subjective purpose that you have made, which again implies that there is no intrinsic purpose to life (since ... you made it).

Sorry, your conclusion is a fallacy that invokes objective guidelines and entities that have not been shown to exist.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
PeacefulChaos
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6/9/2015 11:33:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 11:28:14 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Simple, the vast majority of people on the planet who find purpose in their lives is more than enough proof.

I'm afraid that's not proof. If you wish to prove that there is a purpose in life, then simply saying "Most people make their own purpose in life" does not prove this; otherwise, I could just as easily say the same for God.

"Most people find God, so he exists."

"Most people find purpose, so it exists."

If you wish to prove that there is actually innate purpose in life, then you have give an argument for it. Unless you mean that there is subjective purpose in life. I agree that there is subjective purpose in life, since people can make their own purpose; however, given the assumptions of this thread, there is no objective or intrinsic purpose in life.


Sorry, your conclusion is a fallacy that invokes objective guidelines and entities that have not been shown to exist.

How is my conclusion a fallacy? It does not assume that objective guidelines and entities exist. Quite the opposite, actually. It assumes that you have made your own subjective purpose in life (along with millions of others), but seem to believe it is intrinsically found in life as though it were an objective fact.

This does not make sense.
Envisage
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6/9/2015 11:49:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 11:28:02 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
Why is it important that we survive? And why is it important that a stable society exists? Beyond fulfilling our own desires and being happy, there doesn't seem to be any other reason.

Let me rephrase this:

Why is it important to me that we survive? And why is it important to me that a stable society exists? Beyond fulfilling my own desires and being happy, there doesn't seem to be any other reason.

... and neither do you need one. You can only make If ---> Then statements about what you ought to do. You just justify the "if" premise, e.g. If you value living, then you ought not to kill yourself. The reason why you value living is rather irrelevant given it is a basic biological desire. It just is.
Nicoszon_the_Great
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6/9/2015 11:52:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/9/2015 10:10:55 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 6/8/2015 7:50:18 PM, Nicoszon_the_Great wrote:

Firstly, morality and the gods are not mutually exclusive. Nor is purpose.
I personally am driven by that which I find beautiful and inspiring, meaning: my potential children, Transhumanism, and the desire to attain power. All of which I can see a natural explanation for as well as a personal psychological explanation. I have these beliefs and motivation because I choose to. I want them, therefor I shall.

The point of all this is, if you choose to see no point in doing anything then that is your choice but regardless of the grandiose purpose behind your actions you do have the option to do what you want simply because you fuggin want to.

That's good! I don't disagree with your stance on life at all, and it seems that the majority of comments in this thread follow a similar path - their purpose in life is based on what makes them happy, inspired, what they find to be beautiful, etc., and their sense of morality also comes from these things; however, while it is good that people make their own purpose in life, doesn't this imply that life is meaningless in the first place?

I would state that life is not meaningless, as it's purpose is to initiate the question 'Well what now.'

Life cannot be assigned meaning without determining what is meaningful firstly.