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The demise of Christianity

Saint_of_Me
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6/10/2015 12:24:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not a moment too soon, amigo!

Still...there is much work to be done! LOL.

A mind-numbing and depressingly high 80% of the adults in my country think there is a BFF sky god up there who loves them and keeps track of their actions. And actually listens to their prayers.

Much work.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
dhardage
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6/10/2015 12:30:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 9:40:28 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

While I agree with Mr. Williams on his observations about the public face of Christianity, I think calling it the demise of Christianity is very premature at best. Like any wounded creature Christianity will fight its own end with everything at its disposal so we should be prepared for an even greater push to force Christian values into our secular system and more Christian activist politicians grabbing for the power to do it. Christianity will not go gently into that good night, it will rage against the dying of its light. (Apologies to the author of that poem).
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Meh, people have been predicting the end of Christianity quite vocally since the Enlightenment. Not impressed by proclamations now. Besides, it's on the rise in places like China.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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6/10/2015 1:09:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 9:40:28 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Good article. Some qualifiers...

"The Christian church is in decline. From church attendance to those who identify as Christian, all numbers are heading south.

Ironically, it has become a faith defined more by its willingness to exclude.

As a result, Christianity is dominated, at least in America, by an ethos of oversimplification that seeks not a self-reflective inconvenient love, but one that places its focus on the other.

The Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which some describe as a law that opens the door to discriminate against same-sex couples, while others offer that it would give people more freedom to follow the dictates of their faith.

The viewpoint that is deemed in the best interest of the church in its private morality cannot be the rationale that justifies denying the civil rights of individuals in the public morality.

The Bible does not offer a commandment to "like" something, but it does command that one love. Doesn't that suggest that in the Christian tradition one must embrace the arduous task of loving that which they may not like?

And any religion defined by its worst attributes of its own making can only look in the mirror to seek the guilty party for its demise."
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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6/10/2015 1:42:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Meh, people have been predicting the end of Christianity quite vocally since the Enlightenment. Not impressed by proclamations now. Besides, it's on the rise in places like China.

Yep, meanwhile atheism is on decline globally and is touted as the future. It's quite silly, really.
intellectuallyprimitive
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6/10/2015 1:48:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 1:42:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Meh, people have been predicting the end of Christianity quite vocally since the Enlightenment. Not impressed by proclamations now. Besides, it's on the rise in places like China.

Yep, meanwhile atheism is on decline globally and is touted as the future. It's quite silly, really.

Is atheism decreasing globally? Do you have access to a link?
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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6/10/2015 2:03:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
1. It's Huffington Post.
2. The following link sums it up:
http://adam4d.com...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
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6/10/2015 2:17:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And also, the fact that the media is this bold about bashing Christians tells me that American Christians need their own separate nation more than ever.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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6/10/2015 2:17:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 12:20:30 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Huffpo? Ignored.

At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Not impressed by proclamations now.

At 6/10/2015 2:03:31 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
1. It's Huffington Post.

If I could point out to you folks the author of that article:

Reverend Byron Williams is one of the leading public theologians in the nation. He is a columnist, author, and the former pastor of the Resurrection Community Church in Berkeley, CA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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6/10/2015 2:19:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:17:42 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/10/2015 12:20:30 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Huffpo? Ignored.

At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Not impressed by proclamations now.

At 6/10/2015 2:03:31 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
1. It's Huffington Post.

If I could point out to you folks the author of that article:

Reverend Byron Williams is one of the leading public theologians in the nation. He is a columnist, author, and the former pastor of the Resurrection Community Church in Berkeley, CA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

It's still an article made by the s**ttiest website on the face of the internet, and the fact that they got a pastor to spew all that s**t changes nothing.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
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6/10/2015 2:22:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
(@mod I'm not talking about DDO.)
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
dhardage
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6/10/2015 2:31:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:19:21 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:17:42 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/10/2015 12:20:30 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Huffpo? Ignored.

At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Not impressed by proclamations now.

At 6/10/2015 2:03:31 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
1. It's Huffington Post.

If I could point out to you folks the author of that article:

Reverend Byron Williams is one of the leading public theologians in the nation. He is a columnist, author, and the former pastor of the Resurrection Community Church in Berkeley, CA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

It's still an article made by the s**ttiest website on the face of the internet, and the fact that they got a pastor to spew all that s**t changes nothing.

As my Mama used to say, if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all.
dhardage
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6/10/2015 2:33:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:21:35 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I'd be so happy if somebody burned the headquarters for that stupid website to the ground...I unfortunately live nowhere near NYC and I'd prefer not to spend the rest of my life in prison.

Ah, that wonderful Christian tolerance and love for their fellow man. Even with your sky daddy watching you it seems you cannot control your angry, sinful thoughts. You know that an act committed in your thoughts is as bad as one actually performed, right?
TN05
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6/10/2015 2:34:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 1:48:32 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 6/10/2015 1:42:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Meh, people have been predicting the end of Christianity quite vocally since the Enlightenment. Not impressed by proclamations now. Besides, it's on the rise in places like China.

Yep, meanwhile atheism is on decline globally and is touted as the future. It's quite silly, really.

Is atheism decreasing globally? Do you have access to a link?

Yes, it is:

http://cnsnews.com...
dhardage
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6/10/2015 2:35:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:17:35 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And also, the fact that the media is this bold about bashing Christians tells me that American Christians need their own separate nation more than ever.

Feel free to leave and find your own nation somewhere. We will help you go.
Vox_Veritas
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6/10/2015 2:39:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:35:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:17:35 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And also, the fact that the media is this bold about bashing Christians tells me that American Christians need their own separate nation more than ever.

Feel free to leave and find your own nation somewhere. We will help you go.

I bet you wouldn't.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
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6/10/2015 2:40:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:33:19 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:21:35 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I'd be so happy if somebody burned the headquarters for that stupid website to the ground...I unfortunately live nowhere near NYC and I'd prefer not to spend the rest of my life in prison.

Ah, that wonderful Christian tolerance and love for their fellow man. Even with your sky daddy watching you it seems you cannot control your angry, sinful thoughts. You know that an act committed in your thoughts is as bad as one actually performed, right?

You're right...in the face of horrid anti-theist bigotry I guess I just can't help getting angry.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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6/10/2015 2:44:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:42:59 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:03:31 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
1. It's Huffington Post.
2. The following link sums it up:
http://adam4d.com...

Meh.

lol
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
RuvDraba
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6/10/2015 2:45:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 9:40:28 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Thank you for the link, WSM. For members who just want the gist, the author, a theologian called Byron Williams blames Christian practice in the US itself for the decline in Christianity as an American faith. Here's a precis:

The number may vary but the trend line is consistent: The Christian church is in decline. From church attendance to those who identify as Christian, all numbers are heading south.
There are myriad reasons for Christianity's downward trajectory. My focus is the public face of Christianity. Ironically, it has become a faith defined more by its willingness to exclude.
The primary failing within much of American Christianity's latest pursuits in the public arena is its inability to see where its faith and the Constitution coalesce.
The Christian church at its best is an institution that offers guidance through the complexities of the human condition, humbled by the reality that there are some questions for which "I don't know" is the only appropriate response. Failing to pursue this valiant undertaking creates an arrogance that undermines its best intentions.
And any religion defined by its worst attributes of its own making can only look in the mirror to seek the guilty party for its demise.

I don't personally agree with him. Christianity is declining worldwide in most developed countries, including countries where Christians have taken a more inclusive, liberal approach. So I don't think it's about exclusivity.

I think Christianity's suffering a growing struggle for relevance in cultures concerned with modern matters for which Christian theology is intellectually ill-equipped. In its age-old appeals to traditional authority over evidence; to paternalism over individual empowerment, I think it's failing to adapt to the challenge.

I think it's becoming apparent that a great world faith, self-proclaimed to be about love, has no greater understanding of love than can be discovered secularly, and its churches have no greater commitment to pursuing it than can be found in individual citizens (and -- sadly -- sometimes much less.)

So what it has to offer is far more style than substance, and this is evident in the countless Christians who have abandoned or modified Christian theology and tradition, or left churches to reverted to private worship -- as well as many people like myself, born to Christian-dominated cultures who have either left, or never embraced, those influences.

I think the author's question pertains far more to the future of Americans who elect for whatever reason, to remain in that faith. Torn by corporatisation and the jingoistic nationalism of evangelical and other sectarian bigotry, and facing growing social pressure to be adult and relevant or shut up, I think it may be time to overhaul values.

I don't think doing so will reverse the fortunes of Christianity in developed countries, but it might help settle the consciences of those who remain.
popculturepooka
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6/10/2015 2:45:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:17:42 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/10/2015 12:20:30 PM, Geogeer wrote:

Huffpo? Ignored.

At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Not impressed by proclamations now.

At 6/10/2015 2:03:31 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
1. It's Huffington Post.

If I could point out to you folks the author of that article:

Reverend Byron Williams is one of the leading public theologians in the nation. He is a columnist, author, and the former pastor of the Resurrection Community Church in Berkeley, CA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

That doesn't make him stand on any less on shaky ground...Like I said people have vocally been saying the same thing for hundreds of years. I

highly doubt they will be right this time.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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6/10/2015 2:56:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:40:58 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:33:19 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:21:35 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I'd be so happy if somebody burned the headquarters for that stupid website to the ground...I unfortunately live nowhere near NYC and I'd prefer not to spend the rest of my life in prison.

Ah, that wonderful Christian tolerance and love for their fellow man. Even with your sky daddy watching you it seems you cannot control your angry, sinful thoughts. You know that an act committed in your thoughts is as bad as one actually performed, right?

You're right...in the face of horrid anti-theist bigotry I guess I just can't help getting angry.

horrid anti-theist bigotry ? When a theologist wrote it? That's a bit hard to reconcile.
Vox_Veritas
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6/10/2015 3:03:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:56:05 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:40:58 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:33:19 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:21:35 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I'd be so happy if somebody burned the headquarters for that stupid website to the ground...I unfortunately live nowhere near NYC and I'd prefer not to spend the rest of my life in prison.

Ah, that wonderful Christian tolerance and love for their fellow man. Even with your sky daddy watching you it seems you cannot control your angry, sinful thoughts. You know that an act committed in your thoughts is as bad as one actually performed, right?

You're right...in the face of horrid anti-theist bigotry I guess I just can't help getting angry.

horrid anti-theist bigotry ? When a theologist wrote it? That's a bit hard to reconcile.

I don't know why the heck he went along with it, but it was clearly published to appeal to HuffPo's Liberal, anti-theist base. "We need to spew out at least 5 articles a day bashing Christianity" is probably a rule that the business's employees must adhere to.
Let me ask you this: if a Black guy wrote an article for Fox News titled "Black people need to be exterminated", would it not be racist and offensive just because it was written by a black guy?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Vox_Veritas
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6/10/2015 3:05:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"We need to be more critical of Christianity" seems to be the battlecry of every media source out there. First, it's a way, way, way excessive amount of criticism. Second, most of the things they criticize the church for are things the church isn't doing wrong.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
intellectuallyprimitive
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6/10/2015 3:05:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 2:34:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 6/10/2015 1:48:32 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 6/10/2015 1:42:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Meh, people have been predicting the end of Christianity quite vocally since the Enlightenment. Not impressed by proclamations now. Besides, it's on the rise in places like China.

Yep, meanwhile atheism is on decline globally and is touted as the future. It's quite silly, really.

Is atheism decreasing globally? Do you have access to a link?

Yes, it is:

http://cnsnews.com...

That did not consider those who did not admit or identify as atheists, but are indeed atheists. In other words, only self-admitted atheists, open atheists if you will, were accounted for.
intellectuallyprimitive
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6/10/2015 3:06:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 3:05:47 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:34:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 6/10/2015 1:48:32 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 6/10/2015 1:42:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Meh, people have been predicting the end of Christianity quite vocally since the Enlightenment. Not impressed by proclamations now. Besides, it's on the rise in places like China.

Yep, meanwhile atheism is on decline globally and is touted as the future. It's quite silly, really.

Is atheism decreasing globally? Do you have access to a link?

Yes, it is:

http://cnsnews.com...

That did not consider those who did not admit or identify as atheists, but are indeed atheists. In other words, only self-admitted atheists, open atheists if you will, were accounted for.

Addendum:
This also may be due to many not being aware that they are atheists.
TN05
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6/10/2015 3:06:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/10/2015 3:05:47 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 6/10/2015 2:34:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 6/10/2015 1:48:32 PM, intellectuallyprimitive wrote:
At 6/10/2015 1:42:17 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 6/10/2015 12:32:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Meh, people have been predicting the end of Christianity quite vocally since the Enlightenment. Not impressed by proclamations now. Besides, it's on the rise in places like China.

Yep, meanwhile atheism is on decline globally and is touted as the future. It's quite silly, really.

Is atheism decreasing globally? Do you have access to a link?

Yes, it is:

http://cnsnews.com...

That did not consider those who did not admit or identify as atheists, but are indeed atheists. In other words, only self-admitted atheists, open atheists if you will, were accounted for.

No True Scotsman. Atheism itself is shrinking. There are 'spiritual but not religious' people and agnostics, but those are not atheists.