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Jainism: A Religion for Atheists?

GeoLaureate8
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8/11/2010 4:23:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
To the Atheists who fear death, wish for an afterlife, but disbelieve God, Jainism is the perfect religion to look into.

- Jainism was founded by a sage named Mahavira. (He was actually alive and elderly when young Buddha came to the scene.)
- Every person has a soul and has the potential to reach a state of perfect knowledge, power, and bliss.
- There is an afterlife of a cycle of death and rebirth, but you can be liberated from this cycle through spiritual evolution and attain moksha where you you attain the perfect bliss, knowledge, and power.
- There is no God and the Universe is eternal and self-sustaining.
- A central doctrine is non-violence (since Atheists like to speak out against violence caused by religion. :P)
- It stresses the importance of gaining knowledge and enlightenment.

There's much more, but that should give you an idea.

Do any Atheists find this a desirable paradigm? (Despite evidence, as opposed to Christianity which is both lacking evidence and is undesirable.)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 4:26:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Information on Jainism:

http://www.en.wikipedia.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 4:31:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The reason why I picked Jainism instead of Buddhism is because Buddhism may appear to be too depressing and nihilistic for the Atheists like Cerebral. For me, I have no problem accepting it, but I won't get into why in this thread.

Jainism on the other hand seems to fulfill all the desires of Atheists while still being Godless.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/11/2010 4:34:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:32:34 PM, Puck wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:23:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Do any Atheists find this a desirable paradigm?

No.

don't speak for all atheists!

also as far as i know, as a jainist, if i ended up with termites, or a beehive in my house (happened to my neighbors, creepy!) i wouldn't be able to kill them. NOT OK.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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8/11/2010 4:37:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:34:01 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:32:34 PM, Puck wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:23:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Do any Atheists find this a desirable paradigm?

No.

don't speak for all atheists!

I wasn't intending to. Not I - better? :P
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/11/2010 4:38:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:23:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
To the Atheists who fear death, wish for an afterlife, but disbelieve God, Jainism is the perfect religion to look into.

- Jainism was founded by a sage named Mahavira. (He was actually alive and elderly when young Buddha came to the scene.)
- Every person has a soul and has the potential to reach a state of perfect knowledge, power, and bliss.
- There is an afterlife of a cycle of death and rebirth, but you can be liberated from this cycle through spiritual evolution and attain moksha where you you attain the perfect bliss, knowledge, and power.
- There is no God and the Universe is eternal and self-sustaining.
- A central doctrine is non-violence (since Atheists like to speak out against violence caused by religion. :P)
- It stresses the importance of gaining knowledge and enlightenment.

There's much more, but that should give you an idea.

Do any Atheists find this a desirable paradigm? (Despite evidence, as opposed to Christianity which is both lacking evidence and is undesirable.)

Reply:-
Since Atheists are blind, something has to smell nice before it can attract their interest, this for me smells like a rat, but for an atheist it may smell better than the truth,

Truth can only be found in one place, = the light,- this in turn explains why Atheists can be found in various dark dead end avenues.

But hey, everyone brought into the light were fond in these places, so there's hope !
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/11/2010 4:42:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:37:06 PM, Puck wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:34:01 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:32:34 PM, Puck wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:23:08 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Do any Atheists find this a desirable paradigm?

No.

don't speak for all atheists!

I wasn't intending to. Not I - better? :P

yup. keepin ya on your toes!
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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8/11/2010 4:45:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:38:31 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Reply:-
Since Atheists are blind, something has to smell nice before it can attract their interest, this for me smells like a rat, but for an atheist it may smell better than the truth,

Truth can only be found in one place, = the light,- this in turn explains why Atheists can be found in various dark dead end avenues.

But hey, everyone brought into the light were fond in these places, so there's hope !

What in the name of glorious Satan are you blathering on about?
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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8/11/2010 4:49:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:45:13 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:38:31 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Reply:-
Since Atheists are blind, something has to smell nice before it can attract their interest, this for me smells like a rat, but for an atheist it may smell better than the truth,

Truth can only be found in one place, = the light,- this in turn explains why Atheists can be found in various dark dead end avenues.

But hey, everyone brought into the light were fond in these places, so there's hope !

What in the name of glorious Satan are you blathering on about?

Presumably, one shouldn't read in the dark.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/11/2010 4:50:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm too much of a 'sinner' for Jainism.

Non-violence: Nope. Some people deserve a karate chop to the throat and imma deal them out in spades.
Truthfulness: Nope. Gotta lie sometimes.
Non-stealing: Ehh... I'm not a theif, but the four principles of Jainism are too strict. I might want to undercut someone, spend some cash I find or buy a stolen car stereo.
Celibacy: AHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, nope.
Non-possession or Non-materialism: Nope. I like stuff and I want stuff and it's my stuff.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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tvellalott
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8/11/2010 4:54:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:52:45 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What's wrong with celibacy? Besides, I'm pretty sure it's just staying celibate until marriage.

Herein lies the problem. I don't want to have to get married to sleep with someone.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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InsertNameHere
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8/11/2010 4:56:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:54:55 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:52:45 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What's wrong with celibacy? Besides, I'm pretty sure it's just staying celibate until marriage.

Herein lies the problem. I don't want to have to get married to sleep with someone.

Then don't sleep with anybody. :P
tvellalott
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8/11/2010 4:57:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:56:23 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:54:55 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:52:45 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What's wrong with celibacy? Besides, I'm pretty sure it's just staying celibate until marriage.

Herein lies the problem. I don't want to have to get married to sleep with someone.

Then don't sleep with anybody. :P

You crazy girl. I'd do a hole in the fence if the weather was humid enough.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
InsertNameHere
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8/11/2010 4:59:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:57:24 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:56:23 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:54:55 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:52:45 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What's wrong with celibacy? Besides, I'm pretty sure it's just staying celibate until marriage.

Herein lies the problem. I don't want to have to get married to sleep with someone.

Then don't sleep with anybody. :P

You crazy girl. I'd do a hole in the fence if the weather was humid enough.

Haha. You could always become a Shi'a muslim and get a temporary marriage so you can sleep with people. lmao.
tvellalott
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8/11/2010 5:01:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:59:57 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:57:24 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:56:23 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:54:55 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:52:45 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
What's wrong with celibacy? Besides, I'm pretty sure it's just staying celibate until marriage.

Herein lies the problem. I don't want to have to get married to sleep with someone.

Then don't sleep with anybody. :P

You crazy girl. I'd do a hole in the fence if the weather was humid enough.

Haha. You could always become a Shi'a muslim and get a temporary marriage so you can sleep with people. lmao.

Or I could keep being an evil sinner and sleep with whoever will stay will long enough.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/11/2010 5:24:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
no...

b/c: why do they believe in and immaterial... eternal... recurring... soul?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 5:34:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:24:36 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
no...

b/c: why do they believe in and immaterial... eternal... recurring... soul?

Perhaps you didn't read the OP. I was asking "is this a desirable paradigm," not "is it a evidence-based paradigm."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
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8/11/2010 5:41:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
yeah... gotcha now..

and I guess No.. just b/c I'm not a complete pacifist.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 5:45:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:50:09 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Celibacy: AHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, nope.

Perhaps you should've read what was meant by celibacy.

"Celibacy (Brahmacharya) – to control the senses including mind from indulgence. The basic intent of this vow is to conquer passion and to prevent the waste of energy. In this vow, the house holder must not have a sensual relationship with anybody other than one's own spouse." -- http://en.wikipedia.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 5:47:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:41:51 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
yeah... gotcha now..

and I guess No.. just b/c I'm not a complete pacifist.

You would initiate violence? Defending oneself doesn't constitute as violence, but initiating it does. (I'm speaking in general terms.)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/11/2010 5:49:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm pretty sure atheists wouldn't be too keen on:
- Every person has a soul and has the potential to reach a state of perfect knowledge, power, and bliss.
- There is an afterlife of a cycle of death and rebirth, but you can be liberated from this cycle through spiritual evolution and attain moksha where you you attain the perfect bliss, knowledge, and power.

It sounds interesting from here.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
mattrodstrom
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8/11/2010 5:49:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:45:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:50:09 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Celibacy: AHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, nope.

Perhaps you should've read what was meant by celibacy.

"Celibacy (Brahmacharya) – to control the senses including mind from indulgence. The basic intent of this vow is to conquer passion and to prevent the waste of energy. In this vow, the house holder must not have a sensual relationship with anybody other than one's own spouse." -- http://en.wikipedia.org...

yeah... i guess I'd be against having such strict rules too.

I'd prefer to consider all things when making my choices (and so not be a Slave to particular passions/cares over others)

but.... I wouldn't be for arbitrary and permanent rules... But do things as I will... and such things are subject to change with my cares.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/11/2010 5:49:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:47:19 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:41:51 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
yeah... gotcha now..

and I guess No.. just b/c I'm not a complete pacifist.

You would initiate violence? Defending oneself doesn't constitute as violence, but initiating it does. (I'm speaking in general terms.)

violence is always bad, ergo if its defensible then its not violence? kind of a screwy definition don't you think?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mattrodstrom
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8/11/2010 5:54:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:47:19 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:41:51 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
yeah... gotcha now..

and I guess No.. just b/c I'm not a complete pacifist.

You would initiate violence?

quite possibly... depending on what you mean.

I'd kill animals to eat.

and, if I had to, beat a dude into submission to steal his food if He had the only possible food, wasn't (under any circumstances) gonna share, and my kids were starving.

though I'd prefer to hold'em down or steal it some other way.

Defending oneself doesn't constitute as violence, but initiating it does. (I'm speaking in general terms.)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 6:00:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:49:59 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:47:19 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You would initiate violence? Defending oneself doesn't constitute as violence, but initiating it does. (I'm speaking in general terms.)

violence is always bad, ergo if its defensible then its not violence?

What? I didn't say that. I said "defending oneself doesn't constitute as violence." If someone attacks you and you protect yourself, you aren't the violent one.

kind of a screwy definition don't you think?

No, you twisted it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 6:02:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:49:19 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
yeah... i guess I'd be against having such strict rules too.

I'd prefer to consider all things when making my choices (and so not be a Slave to particular passions/cares over others)

but.... I wouldn't be for arbitrary and permanent rules... But do things as I will... and such things are subject to change with my cares.

I agree with that as a major gripe as well. However, the rules are for your benefit as there is no one to punish you for not following them. They're more like suggestions than rules.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat