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Question for Christians

alexhdz55
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8/11/2010 4:37:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If you believe that people who are never introduced to Christianity automatically get into heaven when they die, doesnt being prolife (against abortion) make you a bad person? I mean, you would want to give those babies a chance to learn about Christianity and sin, which is chance to go to hell.
Alex
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/11/2010 4:38:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Get ready!
I can here them coming....
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tvellalott
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8/11/2010 4:39:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:38:59 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Get ready!
I can hear them coming....

AHHH!! Spelling fail.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/11/2010 4:40:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Interesting thought. I'm not a christian(although my faith shares similar views about the fate of people who are ignorant), but I have never thought about that before. That could be possible.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/11/2010 4:55:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:37:21 PM, alexhdz55 wrote:
If you believe that people who are never introduced to Christianity automatically get into heaven when they die, doesnt being prolife (against abortion) make you a bad person? I mean, you would want to give those babies a chance to learn about Christianity and sin, which is chance to go to hell.

I fail to understand why this question would be addressed to Christians, it's not a Christian belief that anyone Automatically gains entry into heaven,

The only people I know who believe automatic entry is available are the universalises, People like Joseph Smith who conned and continues to con millions with his sex money and Glory cult (Mormonism)

He introduced an additional two heavens and practically blew Hell of the map with his teachings, -= maybe this question should be addressed to them, I'm sure you can make the compromise since they think they're Christian
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/11/2010 4:56:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:55:12 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:37:21 PM, alexhdz55 wrote:
If you believe that people who are never introduced to Christianity automatically get into heaven when they die, doesnt being prolife (against abortion) make you a bad person? I mean, you would want to give those babies a chance to learn about Christianity and sin, which is chance to go to hell.

I fail to understand why this question would be addressed to Christians, it's not a Christian belief that anyone Automatically gains entry into heaven,

The only people I know who believe automatic entry is available are the universalises, People like Joseph Smith who conned and continues to con millions with his sex money and Glory cult (Mormonism)

He introduced an additional two heavens and practically blew Hell of the map with his teachings, -= maybe this question should be addressed to them, I'm sure you can make the compromise since they think they're Christian

lmao.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/11/2010 4:58:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:55:12 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:37:21 PM, alexhdz55 wrote:
If you believe that people who are never introduced to Christianity automatically get into heaven when they die, doesnt being prolife (against abortion) make you a bad person? I mean, you would want to give those babies a chance to learn about Christianity and sin, which is chance to go to hell.

I fail to understand why this question would be addressed to Christians, it's not a Christian belief that anyone Automatically gains entry into heaven,

The only people I know who believe automatic entry is available are the universalises, People like Joseph Smith who conned and continues to con millions with his sex money and Glory cult (Mormonism)

He introduced an additional two heavens and practically blew Hell of the map with his teachings, -= maybe this question should be addressed to them, I'm sure you can make the compromise since they think they're Christian

It's not stating that everybody automatically enters heaven. It's stating that those ignorance of the Christian faith enter heaven. My religion also teaches that. If you die completely ignorant of the Islamic faith then you can enter heaven.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/11/2010 5:01:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 4:58:42 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
It's not stating that everybody automatically enters heaven. It's stating that those ignorance of the Christian faith enter heaven. My religion also teaches that. If you die completely ignorant of the Islamic faith then you can enter heaven.

does that include sinners? (ie murderers, adulterers, etc. obviously failure to pray isn't being held against them...)
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
InsertNameHere
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8/11/2010 5:03:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:01:23 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/11/2010 4:58:42 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
It's not stating that everybody automatically enters heaven. It's stating that those ignorance of the Christian faith enter heaven. My religion also teaches that. If you die completely ignorant of the Islamic faith then you can enter heaven.

does that include sinners? (ie murderers, adulterers, etc. obviously failure to pray isn't being held against them...)

You mean sinners who are completely ignorant of the faith?
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/11/2010 5:10:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's not stating that everybody automatically enters heaven. It's stating that those ignorance of the Christian faith enter heaven. My religion also teaches that. If you die completely ignorant of the Islamic faith then you can enter heaven.

the Problem here is, the question is directed at Christians,
(strictly speaking) === Christians who know what the bible teaches on this subject, know that a person doesn't need to be Christian to enter heaven
InsertNameHere
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8/11/2010 5:12:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:10:47 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

the Problem here is, the question is directed at Christians,
(strictly speaking) === Christians who know what the bible teaches on this subject, know that a person doesn't need to be Christian to enter heaven

I can still provide input. I don't think you realize how similar Islam and Christianity are(aside from some differences such as the trinity).
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/11/2010 5:35:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:12:14 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:10:47 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

the Problem here is, the question is directed at Christians,
(strictly speaking) === Christians who know what the bible teaches on this subject, know that a person doesn't need to be Christian to enter heaven

I can still provide input. I don't think you realize how similar Islam and Christianity are(aside from some differences such as the trinity).

I speak to Muslims, who say the same thing, but from the off, as soon as I hear that they follow the seed of Ismael I cannot take the claim seriously,

The very fact that they don't believe in the trinity means we do not believe in the same God,

it takes 98% food and 2% poison to kill a rat, so being "similar" goes to prove the bible right
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made......"

Matt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/11/2010 5:38:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:15:18 PM, whatledge wrote:
Lol if thats the case, the only way to "save" people is to stop spreading faith.

Where did you learn that people can spread "faith" ?
InsertNameHere
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8/11/2010 5:40:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:35:53 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

I speak to Muslims, who say the same thing, but from the off, as soon as I hear that they follow the seed of Ismael I cannot take the claim seriously,

The very fact that they don't believe in the trinity means we do not believe in the same God,

it takes 98% food and 2% poison to kill a rat, so being "similar" goes to prove the bible right
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made......"

Matt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".

Hmm...I haven't given you this challenge yet. Give me Biblical verses that has Jesus directly saying he's God.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 5:40:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What the OP is saying, is that under the Christian paradigm, we should kill all babies so that we can guarantee that they go to heaven as opposed to letting the baby grow up to have the chance of being condemned to Hell for his sins (as babies can't sin, but matured people can).
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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8/11/2010 6:16:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Its more than that, though. Us, being atheists, are, according to the christian teachings, directly sending people to hell, for every person we deconvert.

Yet, people who kill babies, children, are sending them directly to heaven.

Clearly baby-killers should be praised for their hard work!
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/11/2010 6:37:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:40:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:35:53 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

I speak to Muslims, who say the same thing, but from the off, as soon as I hear that they follow the seed of Ismael I cannot take the claim seriously,

The very fact that they don't believe in the trinity means we do not believe in the same God,

it takes 98% food and 2% poison to kill a rat, so being "similar" goes to prove the bible right
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made......"

Matt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".

Hmm...I haven't given you this challenge yet. Give me Biblical verses that has Jesus directly saying he's God.

He cannot say he is God,
God is more than Jesus,
It would be like an egg shell saying "I am the egg" what about the yoke and the albumen, are they to be discarded, or are they also in the position to say they are the egg ?

If "fullness" = "entire", then what more did Jesus need to be the "I AM" ?
Col 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/11/2010 6:38:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:37:12 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:40:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:35:53 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

I speak to Muslims, who say the same thing, but from the off, as soon as I hear that they follow the seed of Ismael I cannot take the claim seriously,

The very fact that they don't believe in the trinity means we do not believe in the same God,

it takes 98% food and 2% poison to kill a rat, so being "similar" goes to prove the bible right
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made......"

Matt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".

Hmm...I haven't given you this challenge yet. Give me Biblical verses that has Jesus directly saying he's God.

He cannot say he is God,
God is more than Jesus,
It would be like an egg shell saying "I am the egg" what about the yoke and the albumen, are they to be discarded, or are they also in the position to say they are the egg ?

If "fullness" = "entire", then what more did Jesus need to be the "I AM" ?
Col 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".

Ok, you've just failed the test and apparently have no evidence for the trinity. I have been telling people for months that I would consider converting to Christianity if they can provide proper evidence for the trinity.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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8/11/2010 6:40:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 5:40:50 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What the OP is saying, is that under the Christian paradigm, we should kill all babies so that we can guarantee that they go to heaven as opposed to letting the baby grow up to have the chance of being condemned to Hell for his sins (as babies can't sin, but matured people can).

Same as atheists eh? You can save them from all the problems of this world. Since Atheists' purpose is to ease the suffering on everyone else, maybe it would be better if we nuked the whole world. Death is the cure for all suffering.
kfc
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/11/2010 6:44:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:40:35 PM, Koopin wrote:
Same as atheists eh? You can save them from all the problems of this world. Since Atheists' purpose is to ease the suffering on everyone else, maybe it would be better if we nuked the whole world. Death is the cure for all suffering.

Koopin's a Nihilist...

that's why he clings to christianity... the world's to meaningless without "Higher Meaning" so he pleasantly deludes himself.

Or at least that's what his post tells me
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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8/11/2010 6:48:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:44:18 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:40:35 PM, Koopin wrote:
Same as atheists eh? You can save them from all the problems of this world. Since Atheists' purpose is to ease the suffering on everyone else, maybe it would be better if we nuked the whole world. Death is the cure for all suffering.

Koopin's a Nihilist...

that's why he clings to christianity... the world's to meaningless without "Higher Meaning" so he pleasantly deludes himself.

Or at least that's what his post tells me


If that's your interpretation.
kfc
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,923
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8/11/2010 6:49:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:38:34 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:37:12 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:40:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:35:53 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

I speak to Muslims, who say the same thing, but from the off, as soon as I hear that they follow the seed of Ismael I cannot take the claim seriously,

The very fact that they don't believe in the trinity means we do not believe in the same God,

it takes 98% food and 2% poison to kill a rat, so being "similar" goes to prove the bible right
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made......"

Matt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".

Hmm...I haven't given you this challenge yet. Give me Biblical verses that has Jesus directly saying he's God.

He cannot say he is God,
God is more than Jesus,
It would be like an egg shell saying "I am the egg" what about the yoke and the albumen, are they to be discarded, or are they also in the position to say they are the egg ?

If "fullness" = "entire", then what more did Jesus need to be the "I AM" ?
Col 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".

Ok, you've just failed the test and apparently have no evidence for the trinity. I have been telling people for months that I would consider converting to Christianity if they can provide proper evidence for the trinity.

And I have before. You could always formally debate me....
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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8/11/2010 6:50:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:37:12 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:40:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:35:53 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

I speak to Muslims, who say the same thing, but from the off, as soon as I hear that they follow the seed of Ismael I cannot take the claim seriously,

The very fact that they don't believe in the trinity means we do not believe in the same God,

it takes 98% food and 2% poison to kill a rat, so being "similar" goes to prove the bible right
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made......"

Matt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".

Hmm...I haven't given you this challenge yet. Give me Biblical verses that has Jesus directly saying he's God.

He cannot say he is God,
God is more than Jesus,
It would be like an egg shell saying "I am the egg" what about the yoke and the albumen, are they to be discarded, or are they also in the position to say they are the egg ?

If "fullness" = "entire", then what more did Jesus need to be the "I AM" ?
Col 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".

Then youve failed. Cause clearly Jesus says "I and the father are one", which is exactly what the trinity is. Yet, the egg shell and the yolk are NOT one, they are separate entities. Which is why no one refers to the egg as a trinity.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/11/2010 6:51:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:49:30 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:38:34 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:37:12 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:40:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:35:53 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

I speak to Muslims, who say the same thing, but from the off, as soon as I hear that they follow the seed of Ismael I cannot take the claim seriously,

The very fact that they don't believe in the trinity means we do not believe in the same God,

it takes 98% food and 2% poison to kill a rat, so being "similar" goes to prove the bible right
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made......"

Matt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".

Hmm...I haven't given you this challenge yet. Give me Biblical verses that has Jesus directly saying he's God.

He cannot say he is God,
God is more than Jesus,
It would be like an egg shell saying "I am the egg" what about the yoke and the albumen, are they to be discarded, or are they also in the position to say they are the egg ?

If "fullness" = "entire", then what more did Jesus need to be the "I AM" ?
Col 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".

Ok, you've just failed the test and apparently have no evidence for the trinity. I have been telling people for months that I would consider converting to Christianity if they can provide proper evidence for the trinity.

And I have before. You could always formally debate me....

I can't formally debate you. Your arguments are always very philosophical, something I know nothing about.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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8/11/2010 6:51:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:40:35 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:40:50 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
What the OP is saying, is that under the Christian paradigm, we should kill all babies so that we can guarantee that they go to heaven as opposed to letting the baby grow up to have the chance of being condemned to Hell for his sins (as babies can't sin, but matured people can).

Same as atheists eh? You can save them from all the problems of this world. Since Atheists' purpose is to ease the suffering on everyone else, maybe it would be better if we nuked the whole world. Death is the cure for all suffering.

Wouldnt every person on the earth who doesnt instantly get vaporized, suffer TREMENDOUSLY before dying a slow, painful death?
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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8/11/2010 6:53:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:51:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:40:35 PM, Koopin wrote:

Same as atheists eh? You can save them from all the problems of this world. Since Atheists' purpose is to ease the suffering on everyone else, maybe it would be better if we nuked the whole world. Death is the cure for all suffering.

Wouldnt every person on the earth who doesnt instantly get vaporized, suffer TREMENDOUSLY before dying a slow, painful death?
kfc
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 6:56:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:51:52 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:49:30 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
And I have before. You could always formally debate me....

I can't formally debate you. Your arguments are always very philosophical, something I know nothing about.

Then you must concede. Also, that's a copout. If you're going to claim things like "I have been telling people for months that I would consider converting to Christianity if they can provide proper evidence for the trinity" and then you won't give popculturepooka a chance to affirm the trinity to; especially if your reason is that his arguments are too good.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,923
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8/11/2010 6:57:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 6:51:52 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:49:30 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:38:34 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 6:37:12 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:40:06 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/11/2010 5:35:53 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:

I speak to Muslims, who say the same thing, but from the off, as soon as I hear that they follow the seed of Ismael I cannot take the claim seriously,

The very fact that they don't believe in the trinity means we do not believe in the same God,

it takes 98% food and 2% poison to kill a rat, so being "similar" goes to prove the bible right
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made......"

Matt 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".

Hmm...I haven't given you this challenge yet. Give me Biblical verses that has Jesus directly saying he's God.

He cannot say he is God,
God is more than Jesus,
It would be like an egg shell saying "I am the egg" what about the yoke and the albumen, are they to be discarded, or are they also in the position to say they are the egg ?

If "fullness" = "entire", then what more did Jesus need to be the "I AM" ?
Col 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".

Ok, you've just failed the test and apparently have no evidence for the trinity. I have been telling people for months that I would consider converting to Christianity if they can provide proper evidence for the trinity.

And I have before. You could always formally debate me....

I can't formally debate you. Your arguments are always very philosophical, something I know nothing about.

Nope, it'd be straight biblical stuff.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!