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Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

GreatestIam
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6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL
Harikrish
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6/12/2015 4:55:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Christians are told all knowledge comes from God.

"God gives the gift of knowledge out of His infinite store of knowledge. Psalm 19:2 tells us that God"s creation reveals the Creator"s knowledge: "Night after night [the skies] display knowledge." The vastness of God"s knowledge and creative power are on display continually and are clearly seen in what He has created, as Paul reminds us in Romans 1:19-20. Not only is God"s knowledge infinite, but it is absolute: "Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! / How unsearchable his judgments, / and his paths beyond tracing out!" (Romans 11:33). When God came to earth in the Person of Jesus Christ, He became the embodiment of knowledge: ". . . Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Colossians 2:2-3)."

Eve sought knowledge by eating of the tree of knowledge for which she and Adam were punished.

That suggests seeking knowledge is a sin. Only knowledge received through God is acceptable. What knowledge could one possibly need outside of that offered by God? It was this restriction on Christians that led to the 'Dark Ages'. Most Christians reject science and other fields of knowledge out of ignorance and Christian indoctrination. Christian Apologetics offers a justification for such archaic practices.
GreatestIam
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6/12/2015 7:06:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well put.

Apologists are also quick to use this story to enforce their institutionalized misogyny against women.

Regards
DL
Skyangel
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6/12/2015 8:43:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

The depends on how you define sin. Is there a law against seeking knowledge?
If you are not breaking a law are you sinning?
The Proverbs encourage people to seek wisdom knowledge and understanding.

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

If it is, then the character Jesus sinned in the story by opening peoples eyes.

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

The logical answer is obviously not unless the scriptures urge you to go out and kill someone when they also clearly say do not kill.
Therefore you need to use some common sense to decide which scriptures to obey and which to disobey.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What is perfection? When an entity tells you to NOT kill and then sends you out to kill, do you obey his command to not kill or obey his command to kill? OR do you do nothing and tell him to make up his mind or stop trying to make you do what he is perfectly capable of doing himself without your help?
Is a person who cannot make up his mind perfect? Is a person who says Do not do 'X" and then says go ahead and do "X" perfect or is he a hypocrite who says do as I say and not as I do?

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

A hypocrite says, behold mankind is become as hypocritical as us, knowing good and evil.

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Because God is bipolar.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

It's not. It is possible to gain knowledge and still remain in ignorant bliss knowing that you know absolutely nothing and the more you learn the less you realize you know.

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

No since God is the lowest of the low and you cannot get any lower so it is no sin to be equal with God.

Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

The word translated as "no reputation" is Kenoo.
It means....
* to empty, make empty
* to make void
* deprive of force, render vain, useless, of no effect
* to make void
* cause a thing to be seen to be empty, hollow, false

To be equal with God is to become empty, void, useless, vain, powerless, hollow, false.

Those who try to be better than that are trying to be better than God.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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6/13/2015 3:09:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL

Asking questions and seeking knowledge is part of the human psyche and a good thing. If Adam and Eve had existed, they did the right thing by ignoring the nasty deity who had set them up!
PureX
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6/13/2015 6:30:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Organized religion very often becomes infected with the social sickness of authoritarianism. And when this happens, obedience becomes it's highest virtue. And so it preaches blind obedience to the religion as expressing one's "faith in God".

Blind obedience is not faith, but the lie must be maintained to ensure and protect the authoritarian regime. Religion becomes it's "authority", and obeying the religion becomes the equivalent of obeying God. Therefor, to doubt the religion, is to doubt God, and to question the truthfulness or virtue of the religion is purported to be the same as doubting and questioning God.

Atheists point to this authoritarianism and it's blind obedience and the dishonestly and ignorance that it promotes as an excuse for dismissing and abandoning all religion. But it's not really the religion that is the problem. It's the infection of authoritarianism that poisons the religious leaders and their organizations that is the problem. And that problem can infect any human collective. Religion, uninfected by authoritarianism, can be a very positive experience for a lot of people.

It is not a sin to seek knowledge. But don't confuse knowledge with wisdom. And don't confuse religion with the sins and abuses of those who misrepresent it.
JJ50
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6/13/2015 8:43:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 6:30:48 AM, PureX wrote:
Organized religion very often becomes infected with the social sickness of authoritarianism. And when this happens, obedience becomes it's highest virtue. And so it preaches blind obedience to the religion as expressing one's "faith in God".

Blind obedience is not faith, but the lie must be maintained to ensure and protect the authoritarian regime. Religion becomes it's "authority", and obeying the religion becomes the equivalent of obeying God. Therefor, to doubt the religion, is to doubt God, and to question the truthfulness or virtue of the religion is purported to be the same as doubting and questioning God.

Atheists point to this authoritarianism and it's blind obedience and the dishonestly and ignorance that it promotes as an excuse for dismissing and abandoning all religion. But it's not really the religion that is the problem. It's the infection of authoritarianism that poisons the religious leaders and their organizations that is the problem. And that problem can infect any human collective. Religion, uninfected by authoritarianism, can be a very positive experience for a lot of people.

It is not a sin to seek knowledge. But don't confuse knowledge with wisdom. And don't confuse religion with the sins and abuses of those who misrepresent it.

Obeying the deity is like obeying Hitler!
PureX
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6/14/2015 7:24:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 8:43:07 AM, JJ50 wrote:

Obeying the deity is like obeying Hitler!

There are many concepts of deity among the billions of humans on Earth, and most of them do not resemble Hitler in any way. Unfortunately, there are some religious groups (within Islam and Christianity in particular) that have a propensity for conceptualizing God as a tyrant, and demanding blind obedience to their religious dogmas so as to control and exploit their 'believers', and turn them against others.

They do not represent the majority of God-believers, however. Not even within their own religions.
JJ50
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6/14/2015 7:31:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 7:24:25 AM, PureX wrote:
At 6/13/2015 8:43:07 AM, JJ50 wrote:

Obeying the deity is like obeying Hitler!

There are many concepts of deity among the billions of humans on Earth, and most of them do not resemble Hitler in any way. Unfortunately, there are some religious groups (within Islam and Christianity in particular) that have a propensity for conceptualizing God as a tyrant, and demanding blind obedience to their religious dogmas so as to control and exploit their 'believers', and turn them against others.

They do not represent the majority of God-believers, however. Not even within their own religions.

The Bible doesn't exactly paint a pleasant picture of the deity it features there!
PureX
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6/14/2015 2:37:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 7:31:31 AM, JJ50 wrote:

The Bible doesn't exactly paint a pleasant picture of the deity it features there!

So what? It's a collection of stories, parables, poems, songs, and miscellaneous propositions intended to cause the reader to contemplate the inexplicability of life in relation to the concept of an ultimate deity.

It's not about creating "pleasant pictures".
Harikrish
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6/14/2015 2:52:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Men still like to see women naked just like in the garden of Eden, which simply proves only women were affected by eating of the tree of knowledge and then becoming ashamed of their nakedness. And yes, only women labour in pain as God's cursed predicted.
So it cannot be a sin to seek knowledge if you are a man. It is a bit more complicated for women going by the bible.
annanicole
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6/14/2015 3:13:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

No, of course it's not wrong to seek knowledge in and of itself. The manner in which one might seek to acquire this knowledge might be dreadfully wrong. For instance, the police often acquire knowledge because they are seeking it. That's not wrong. Torturing or threatening people in order to acquire it would be wrong.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
GreatestIam
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6/14/2015 3:45:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 8:43:19 PM, Skyangel wrote:



Those who try to be better than that are trying to be better than God.

I saw nothing to argue against. Well done.

Lets hope all try to be better than God. There are good reasons we Gnostic Christians see him as a vile demiurge.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/14/2015 3:47:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 3:09:06 AM, JJ50 wrote:


Asking questions and seeking knowledge is part of the human psyche and a good thing. If Adam and Eve had existed, they did the right thing by ignoring the nasty deity who had set them up!

Well put.

Strange that Christians cannot see the set up.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/14/2015 3:52:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 6:30:48 AM, PureX wrote:
Organized religion very often becomes infected with the social sickness of authoritarianism. And when this happens, obedience becomes it's highest virtue. And so it preaches blind obedience to the religion as expressing one's "faith in God".

Blind obedience is not faith, but the lie must be maintained to ensure and protect the authoritarian regime. Religion becomes it's "authority", and obeying the religion becomes the equivalent of obeying God. Therefor, to doubt the religion, is to doubt God, and to question the truthfulness or virtue of the religion is purported to be the same as doubting and questioning God.

Atheists point to this authoritarianism and it's blind obedience and the dishonestly and ignorance that it promotes as an excuse for dismissing and abandoning all religion. But it's not really the religion that is the problem. It's the infection of authoritarianism that poisons the religious leaders and their organizations that is the problem. And that problem can infect any human collective. Religion, uninfected by authoritarianism, can be a very positive experience for a lot of people.

It is not a sin to seek knowledge. But don't confuse knowledge with wisdom. And don't confuse religion with the sins and abuses of those who misrepresent it.

Nicely put.

As a Gnostic Christian, I too see some of the benefits of the non-authoritarian religions.

Ours, for instance, is a Universalist tradition that cannot be homophobic and misogynous like Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/14/2015 3:58:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 7:24:25 AM, PureX wrote:
At 6/13/2015 8:43:07 AM, JJ50 wrote:

Obeying the deity is like obeying Hitler!

There are many concepts of deity among the billions of humans on Earth, and most of them do not resemble Hitler in any way. Unfortunately, there are some religious groups (within Islam and Christianity in particular) that have a propensity for conceptualizing God as a tyrant, and demanding blind obedience to their religious dogmas so as to control and exploit their 'believers', and turn them against others.

They do not represent the majority of God-believers, however. Not even within their own religions.

I disagree.

A silent majority, if they exist as you indicate, that does not fight the evils within their midst are just as evil as the vocal minority.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is be a part of the silent majority and do nothing.

I think there is even a scripture about being either hot or cold and not sitting on the fence.

Apologies I cannot find it.

Regards
DL
Saint_of_Me
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6/14/2015 3:59:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL

Your statement that a person merely seeks knowledge to become godlike smacks of Genesis Fall of Man Theology--where A & E ate from the Tree of Knowledge and then were banned from Eden and caused the Fall.

Which I believe is a purely allegorical fable with not a modicum of literal truth to it.

Knowledge is Power, amigo. I seek it to better myself and my understanding of the World I live in. In no way do I think it makes me more "god-like."

Especially since I do not believe in them.

We all would do well to steer clear or organized religion when seeking any sort of truth or knowledge.

Like Richard Dawkins says. "The problem with religion is that it teaches people that it's OK not to understand things.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
GreatestIam
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6/14/2015 4:01:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 2:37:15 PM, PureX wrote:
At 6/14/2015 7:31:31 AM, JJ50 wrote:

The Bible doesn't exactly paint a pleasant picture of the deity it features there!

So what? It's a collection of stories, parables, poems, songs, and miscellaneous propositions intended to cause the reader to contemplate the inexplicability of life in relation to the concept of an ultimate deity.

It's not about creating "pleasant pictures".

True but it is not about creating Christians whose morals have been corrupted by the way they read scriptures.

https://www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/14/2015 4:04:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 2:52:03 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Men still like to see women naked just like in the garden of Eden, which simply proves only women were affected by eating of the tree of knowledge and then becoming ashamed of their nakedness. And yes, only women labour in pain as God's cursed predicted.
So it cannot be a sin to seek knowledge if you are a man. It is a bit more complicated for women going by the bible.

Yet scriptures say Eve was deceived while Adam sinned and brought death to the world.

You might gave a point though because man left Eden with his slave wife Eve.

Strange that since Adam sinned and Eves infraction was less than his as he is the one who brought sin and death to us.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/14/2015 4:13:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 3:13:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

No, of course it's not wrong to seek knowledge in and of itself. The manner in which one might seek to acquire this knowledge might be dreadfully wrong. For instance, the police often acquire knowledge because they are seeking it. That's not wrong. Torturing or threatening people in order to acquire it would be wrong.

I did not want to get political, but that would all be relative and subjective.

I can imagine some times when torturing or threatening people in order to acquire information might be the right thing to do.

I think it would depend on the goal of the torture.

for instance. If I thought that torturing someone who was definitely known to have set a bomb to kill many, I think I could do a bit of torture to save the many and would do so with a clear conscience.

Would you do the same or just let the bomb go off without the maximum effort to prevent that mass murder?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/14/2015 4:20:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 3:59:41 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL

Your statement that a person merely seeks knowledge to become godlike smacks of Genesis Fall of Man Theology--where A & E ate from the Tree of Knowledge and then were banned from Eden and caused the Fall.

Which I believe is a purely allegorical fable with not a modicum of literal truth to it.

Knowledge is Power, amigo. I seek it to better myself and my understanding of the World I live in. In no way do I think it makes me more "god-like."

Especially since I do not believe in them.

We all would do well to steer clear or organized religion when seeking any sort of truth or knowledge.

Like Richard Dawkins says. "The problem with religion is that it teaches people that it's OK not to understand things.

No argument here my friend.

As a Gnostic Christian I have a somewhat different view of God than the definition most give that word today.

To me, God is more the ideal that Freud speaks of in his Father Complex. The fittest man.

That view comes more from the Jewish Divine Council scenario than what Christianity changed it to when they usurped the Jewish myths and ruined a better theology than the one they created.

This Gnostic Christian"s saying. My God is I am. I am God.

The only God fit to rule men and women is a man or a woman. That is how it has always been and all we have ever had. Who but a man or woman can express the will of God? There have always only been men and women of good hearts able to express God"s real will. Archetypal Jesus and his wife preached to seek God perpetually, --- even after finding a bit of God or Goddess within the self. We are to perpetually raise the bar of excellence for ourselves, our God. Be a God and brethren to a less literal Jesus. Free yourself from your self-imposed bondage and seek Gnosis. This begins by recognizing that both Yahweh, and by association, the Westernized Jesus, as being evil and quite immoral. We do endorse the more Eastern esoteric Jesus.

https://www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL
annanicole
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6/14/2015 5:59:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 4:13:13 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/14/2015 3:13:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

No, of course it's not wrong to seek knowledge in and of itself. The manner in which one might seek to acquire this knowledge might be dreadfully wrong. For instance, the police often acquire knowledge because they are seeking it. That's not wrong. Torturing or threatening people in order to acquire it would be wrong.

I did not want to get political, but that would all be relative and subjective.

I can imagine some times when torturing or threatening people in order to acquire information might be the right thing to do.

The point wasn't "political" in the first place, nor was it an attempt at finding loopholes. The point was that the seeking of knowledge in and of itself is not, according the Bible or even civil law, wrong - or sinful. An additional point was that the seeking of knowledge becomes (1) wrong, as in illegal, when it violates civil law and/or (2) sinful when it violates some other law of God.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Serato
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6/14/2015 6:28:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think Jesus would say to store up knowledge instead of treasures that grow rusty. Knowledge is the true currency of the universe that creates within higher vibrations, and good vibrations are the ultimate currency, the infinite endgame, because Heaven after all is a state of mind. More knowledge becomes better the ecstasy. It would be frowned upon to seek knowledge from the unseen tricksters.
PureX
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6/15/2015 6:09:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 3:58:12 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/14/2015 7:24:25 AM, PureX wrote:

There are many concepts of deity among the billions of humans on Earth, and most of them do not resemble Hitler in any way. Unfortunately, there are some religious groups (within Islam and Christianity in particular) that have a propensity for conceptualizing God as a tyrant, and demanding blind obedience to their religious dogmas so as to control and exploit their 'believers', and turn them against others.

They do not represent the majority of God-believers, however. Not even within their own religions.

I disagree.

A silent majority, if they exist as you indicate, that does not fight the evils within their midst are just as evil as the vocal minority.

Every poll ever taken clearly indicates that they exist. Most Christians do not view God as a tyrant, do not believe that God wrote the Bible, and do not take every word in it as literal and historical fact. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools to 9th grade, and I remember religion class discussions about the biblical stories of 'miracles', and how to interpret them as myth and metaphor. And Catholicism alone makes up an enormous number of the world's Christians.

Also, who among us is actually "fighting evil"? Are you?

Let's be realistic, here, and recognize that the admonishment to fight evil refers to the evil within ourselves. And I do believe that a great many Christians understand this and take that battle within, seriously.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is be a part of the silent majority and do nothing.

They aren't doing any more or less than you or anyone else, is.
PureX
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6/15/2015 6:21:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 4:01:01 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:37:15 PM, PureX wrote:
At 6/14/2015 7:31:31 AM, JJ50 wrote:

The Bible doesn't exactly paint a pleasant picture of the deity it features there!

So what? It's a collection of stories, parables, poems, songs, and miscellaneous propositions intended to cause the reader to contemplate the inexplicability of life in relation to the concept of an ultimate deity.

It's not about creating "pleasant pictures".

True but it is not about creating Christians whose morals have been corrupted by the way they read scriptures.

Immoral religions don't create immoral people, immoral people create immoral religions. People who make a false idol of the Bible by pretending that God wrote it, and use that pretense to render their literalist interpretations of the text "inerrant" are already intellectually and morally corrupted by their own fear and ego. They are creating the religion that allows them to remain steeped in that fear and ego, often at the expense of anyone who might dare to disagree with their religious delusions.

That is not necessarily the Bible nor Christianity's fault, nor it's intent. Why are you so quick to condemn the whole for the abuses of the few? Could it be that you have your own bias festering?
GreatestIam
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6/15/2015 1:05:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 5:59:56 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/14/2015 4:13:13 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/14/2015 3:13:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

No, of course it's not wrong to seek knowledge in and of itself. The manner in which one might seek to acquire this knowledge might be dreadfully wrong. For instance, the police often acquire knowledge because they are seeking it. That's not wrong. Torturing or threatening people in order to acquire it would be wrong.

I did not want to get political, but that would all be relative and subjective.

I can imagine some times when torturing or threatening people in order to acquire information might be the right thing to do.

The point wasn't "political" in the first place, nor was it an attempt at finding loopholes. The point was that the seeking of knowledge in and of itself is not, according the Bible or even civil law, wrong - or sinful. An additional point was that the seeking of knowledge becomes (1) wrong, as in illegal, when it violates civil law and/or (2) sinful when it violates some other law of God.

So were A & E justified in Eden or not?

Give a clear answer if you can instead of dodging the question.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/15/2015 1:07:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/14/2015 6:28:04 PM, Serato wrote:
I think Jesus would say to store up knowledge instead of treasures that grow rusty. Knowledge is the true currency of the universe that creates within higher vibrations, and good vibrations are the ultimate currency, the infinite endgame, because Heaven after all is a state of mind. More knowledge becomes better the ecstasy. It would be frowned upon to seek knowledge from the unseen tricksters.

So you would see A & E as doing the right thing and God doing the evil thing in Eden. Right?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/15/2015 1:11:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 6:09:21 AM, PureX wrote:
At 6/14/2015 3:58:12 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/14/2015 7:24:25 AM, PureX wrote:

There are many concepts of deity among the billions of humans on Earth, and most of them do not resemble Hitler in any way. Unfortunately, there are some religious groups (within Islam and Christianity in particular) that have a propensity for conceptualizing God as a tyrant, and demanding blind obedience to their religious dogmas so as to control and exploit their 'believers', and turn them against others.

They do not represent the majority of God-believers, however. Not even within their own religions.

I disagree.

A silent majority, if they exist as you indicate, that does not fight the evils within their midst are just as evil as the vocal minority.

Every poll ever taken clearly indicates that they exist. Most Christians do not view God as a tyrant, do not believe that God wrote the Bible, and do not take every word in it as literal and historical fact. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools to 9th grade, and I remember religion class discussions about the biblical stories of 'miracles', and how to interpret them as myth and metaphor. And Catholicism alone makes up an enormous number of the world's Christians.

Also, who among us is actually "fighting evil"? Are you?

Let's be realistic, here, and recognize that the admonishment to fight evil refers to the evil within ourselves. And I do believe that a great many Christians understand this and take that battle within, seriously.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is be a part of the silent majority and do nothing.

They aren't doing any more or less than you or anyone else, is.

Hogwash.

Christianity is a homophobic and misogynous religion and any that do not acknowledge fight that are contributing to that evil.

I am here fighting that evil. Are you?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/15/2015 1:14:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 6:21:08 AM, PureX wrote:
At 6/14/2015 4:01:01 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/14/2015 2:37:15 PM, PureX wrote:
At 6/14/2015 7:31:31 AM, JJ50 wrote:

The Bible doesn't exactly paint a pleasant picture of the deity it features there!

So what? It's a collection of stories, parables, poems, songs, and miscellaneous propositions intended to cause the reader to contemplate the inexplicability of life in relation to the concept of an ultimate deity.

It's not about creating "pleasant pictures".

True but it is not about creating Christians whose morals have been corrupted by the way they read scriptures.

Immoral religions don't create immoral people, immoral people create immoral religions. People who make a false idol of the Bible by pretending that God wrote it, and use that pretense to render their literalist interpretations of the text "inerrant" are already intellectually and morally corrupted by their own fear and ego. They are creating the religion that allows them to remain steeped in that fear and ego, often at the expense of anyone who might dare to disagree with their religious delusions.

That is not necessarily the Bible nor Christianity's fault, nor it's intent. Why are you so quick to condemn the whole for the abuses of the few? Could it be that you have your own bias festering?

Yes. A bias against immorality and that is what Christianity sells.

Want a few examples?

Here is an old O.P.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com...

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

https://www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 3
https://www.youtube.com...

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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6/15/2015 1:19:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 1:05:49 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/14/2015 5:59:56 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/14/2015 4:13:13 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 6/14/2015 3:13:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/12/2015 1:02:22 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one"s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

No, of course it's not wrong to seek knowledge in and of itself. The manner in which one might seek to acquire this knowledge might be dreadfully wrong. For instance, the police often acquire knowledge because they are seeking it. That's not wrong. Torturing or threatening people in order to acquire it would be wrong.

I did not want to get political, but that would all be relative and subjective.

I can imagine some times when torturing or threatening people in order to acquire information might be the right thing to do.

The point wasn't "political" in the first place, nor was it an attempt at finding loopholes. The point was that the seeking of knowledge in and of itself is not, according the Bible or even civil law, wrong - or sinful. An additional point was that the seeking of knowledge becomes (1) wrong, as in illegal, when it violates civil law and/or (2) sinful when it violates some other law of God.

So were A & E justified in Eden or not?

Give a clear answer if you can instead of dodging the question.

Justified in what? Whether you happen to believe the narrative or not, it relates that Adam and Eve violated the express statement of God. Are you asking, "Is one justified in breaking a law given to him by God in order to obtain what he perceives as a benefit?" I think to ask that is to answer it.

It's not much different than a man beating the crap out of his wife until she confesses that she cheated on him. Sure, he scored a point by "gaining knowledge", but he likely lost points in the grander scheme of things.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."