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Christianity should ditch the old testaments

drpiek
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6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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6/12/2015 2:25:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

What connection between the OT to the NT discredits the NT?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Saint_of_Me
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6/12/2015 3:00:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

I am with you, pretty much.

To me, there is simply far too many absurdly violent and murderous and just plain evil acts by the tyrannical Yahweh in the OT to make it worth reading for the average Christian. Oh..I could see an Orthodox Jew wanting to learn the Torah, as some it is a part of their history. But for the rest of us not so much.

Even when one realizes that most of those stories in the OT are allegorical and metaphorical and NOT meant to be read as literal, there is still very little there to help us in an applicable sense. That is, to enrich our lives and help us be better people.

The teachings of Jesus in the NT are far superior for that purpose.

And I will always claim that Yahweh is the most loathsome character in all of fiction.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
slo1
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6/12/2015 3:13:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

You know, you better include anything before and after Jesus. After all, a guy and his wife getting struck down by God because they didn't give 100% of their money to the guys who spread Christianity after Jesus's death, doesn't really fly either.
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/12/2015 3:42:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

It's wicked to take away from the Word of The Most High GOD.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the wordes of the booke of this prophesie, God shal take away his part out of the booke of life, and out of the holy citie, and from the things which are written in this booke.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/12/2015 3:45:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

I don't think that's any reason for Christians to ditch the old testament. Jesus--a figure from the new testament--appeared to endorse the old testament, so one can't be a follower of Jesus and reject the old testament. If you get rid of the old testament, you undermine the new.

When you say people have a problem with the stories in the Old Testament, I'm guessing you mean things like Jonah being swallowed by a whale or the sun standing still in the sky or moving backwards, or things like that. Basically, the objection is to these fantastic miracles.

But imagine if the old testament contained no miracles at all. We might then wonder whether God had actually acted in Israel's history. If anything, it seems like THAT would be cause to doubt that there really was a Jehovah. So this is a case of heads I win; tails you lose. If there are miracles, that casts doubt on the Jewish religion; and if there are NOT miracles, then THAT would cast doubt on the Jewish religion as well.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Saint_of_Me
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6/12/2015 4:09:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 3:45:25 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

I don't think that's any reason for Christians to ditch the old testament. Jesus--a figure from the new testament--appeared to endorse the old testament, so one can't be a follower of Jesus and reject the old testament. If you get rid of the old testament, you undermine the new.

When you say people have a problem with the stories in the Old Testament, I'm guessing you mean things like Jonah being swallowed by a whale or the sun standing still in the sky or moving backwards, or things like that. Basically, the objection is to these fantastic miracles.

But imagine if the old testament contained no miracles at all. We might then wonder whether God had actually acted in Israel's history. If anything, it seems like THAT would be cause to doubt that there really was a Jehovah. So this is a case of heads I win; tails you lose. If there are miracles, that casts doubt on the Jewish religion; and if there are NOT miracles, then THAT would cast doubt on the Jewish religion as well.

Insofar as Jesus "endorsing" the OT..well, we must remember one word: context.

Yeshua of Nazareth was a 1st Century Palestinian Jewish dude. So...as I said in MY OP, the OT comprised some of his nation's history. This is why I said that while the OT is OK for Jews, for us modern Westerners some 2000 years later....meh, not so much.

If I recall--it has been awhile since catechism, Jesus was not exactly "down" with all of the Law. That is, the teachings of the OT's big hitters: the Major and Minor Prophets. He contradicted himself on this subject, however. As I remember him saying at different times that he had come to overthrow the Law, as well as saying he came to Uphold it.

And he had many a run-in with the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin, who were all about the Law, i.e. the Torah.

Any itinerant preacher in 1st Century Palestine would really have no choice but to quote from the OT (which it was not even called back then, but rather was only a very loose collection of old papyrus scrolls).

But that doesn't mean it does any real good for helping a modern day Chrisitan--especially the liberal and progressive ones--understand God. Or find hints and teachings for leading better lives and trying to improve their contact and understanding of their Creator.

Context, amigo.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
philochristos
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6/12/2015 4:19:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 4:09:21 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/12/2015 3:45:25 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

I don't think that's any reason for Christians to ditch the old testament. Jesus--a figure from the new testament--appeared to endorse the old testament, so one can't be a follower of Jesus and reject the old testament. If you get rid of the old testament, you undermine the new.

When you say people have a problem with the stories in the Old Testament, I'm guessing you mean things like Jonah being swallowed by a whale or the sun standing still in the sky or moving backwards, or things like that. Basically, the objection is to these fantastic miracles.

But imagine if the old testament contained no miracles at all. We might then wonder whether God had actually acted in Israel's history. If anything, it seems like THAT would be cause to doubt that there really was a Jehovah. So this is a case of heads I win; tails you lose. If there are miracles, that casts doubt on the Jewish religion; and if there are NOT miracles, then THAT would cast doubt on the Jewish religion as well.


Insofar as Jesus "endorsing" the OT..well, we must remember one word: context.

Yeshua of Nazareth was a 1st Century Palestinian Jewish dude. So...as I said in MY OP, the OT comprised some of his nation's history. This is why I said that while the OT is OK for Jews, for us modern Westerners some 2000 years later....meh, not so much.

If I recall--it has been awhile since catechism, Jesus was not exactly "down" with all of the Law. That is, the teachings of the OT's big hitters: the Major and Minor Prophets. He contradicted himself on this subject, however. As I remember him saying at different times that he had come to overthrow the Law, as well as saying he came to Uphold it.

And he had many a run-in with the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin, who were all about the Law, i.e. the Torah.

Any itinerant preacher in 1st Century Palestine would really have no choice but to quote from the OT (which it was not even called back then, but rather was only a very loose collection of old papyrus scrolls).

But that doesn't mean it does any real good for helping a modern day Chrisitan--especially the liberal and progressive ones--understand God. Or find hints and teachings for leading better lives and trying to improve their contact and understanding of their Creator.

Context, amigo.

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say the OT is okay for Jews, but not westerners. It's either true or it's not. It's either the word of God or it's not. It doesn't matter whether ancient Jews OR modern westerners approve of it. Your original question--the title of this thread--is whether Christians should ditch the Old Testament. My point was that they cannot ditch the Old Testament and remain consistent with Christianity. Christianity is a religion centered around the notion that Jesus of Nazareth was who he claimed to be--a prophet, a messiah, and the son of God. To be a Christian is to be a follower of him. To be his follower is to believe what he believed and to practice what he taught. If Jesus endorsed the Old Testament, then Christians ought to endorse the old testament. If they don't, then they aren't really following Jesus.

The whole new testament presupposes the old testament. The whole notion that there would be a messiah is based on old testament prophecies, which in turn are based on promises that God supposedly gave to David, Solomon, and the people of Israel that are recorded in the Old Testament.

I am aware of places in the gospels where Jesus endorsed the Mosaic law, but I am not aware of any place where Jesus overthrew the law. And his controversies with the Pharisees and Saducees did not center around whether the Law was true or whether God actually gave the Law to Moses, but rather how they should be interpreted or whether they were nullified by tradition.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Saint_of_Me
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6/12/2015 4:26:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
However, Jesus and His disciples did not observe the strict scribal rules against doing any work on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-14, Mark 2:23-28, 3:1-6, Luke 6:1-11, 13:10-17, 14:1-6, John 5:1-18). Neither did they perform the ritual hand washings before eating (Matthew 15:1-2). In contrast to the dietary rules of the Law, Jesus said no food can defile a person; it is bad attitudes and actions that can make a person unholy (Matthew 15:1-20, Mark 7:1-23). Jesus frequently criticized the scribal laws (Matthew 23:23, Mark 7:11-13) and some aspects of the civil law (John 8:3-5, 10-11).

Therefore, Jesus may have been specifically teaching that the moral and ethical laws in the Scripture would endure until the end of time. That would be consistent with His actions and other teachings. Through His teachings and actions, Jesus revealed the true meaning and intent of the Law.

It is also pointed out that Jesus, Himself, is the fulfillment of the Law (Matthew 26:28, Mark 10:45, Luke 16:16, John 1:16, Acts 10:28, 13:39, Romans 10:4) The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross ended forever the need for animal sacrifices and other aspects of the ceremonial law.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Harikrish
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6/12/2015 4:36:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Old Testament was about the salvation of the Jews first and God's kingdom on earth. It was understood the rest of the world would follow the Jews example and be saved as well. Jesus preached mainly to the Jews.

"Many biblical scholars and lay Christians have noted that Jesus preached almost exclusively about the kingdom of heaven, while Paul highlighted justification by faith"and not vice versa. Some conclude that they preached two different gospels. Others argue that really they both preached justification; still others say it's all about the kingdom."

Paul changed all that by going to the Gentiles and doing away with the Jewish tradition such as circumcision, restricted diets and the sabbath for the gentile converts to Christianity. Paul preached grace and justification by faith.

The Old Testament is the covenant made between Abraham and God and the Mosaic laws which applied mainly to the Jews. The New Testament is about the new covenant with Jesus and salvation by grace. The Old Testament is less relevant to Christians.
Skepticalone
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6/12/2015 7:02:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 3:42:42 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

It's wicked to take away from the Word of The Most High GOD.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the wordes of the booke of this prophesie, God shal take away his part out of the booke of life, and out of the holy citie, and from the things which are written in this booke.

That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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6/12/2015 7:08:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 4:19:40 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/12/2015 4:09:21 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/12/2015 3:45:25 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

I don't think that's any reason for Christians to ditch the old testament. Jesus--a figure from the new testament--appeared to endorse the old testament, so one can't be a follower of Jesus and reject the old testament. If you get rid of the old testament, you undermine the new.

When you say people have a problem with the stories in the Old Testament, I'm guessing you mean things like Jonah being swallowed by a whale or the sun standing still in the sky or moving backwards, or things like that. Basically, the objection is to these fantastic miracles.

But imagine if the old testament contained no miracles at all. We might then wonder whether God had actually acted in Israel's history. If anything, it seems like THAT would be cause to doubt that there really was a Jehovah. So this is a case of heads I win; tails you lose. If there are miracles, that casts doubt on the Jewish religion; and if there are NOT miracles, then THAT would cast doubt on the Jewish religion as well.


Insofar as Jesus "endorsing" the OT..well, we must remember one word: context.

Yeshua of Nazareth was a 1st Century Palestinian Jewish dude. So...as I said in MY OP, the OT comprised some of his nation's history. This is why I said that while the OT is OK for Jews, for us modern Westerners some 2000 years later....meh, not so much.

If I recall--it has been awhile since catechism, Jesus was not exactly "down" with all of the Law. That is, the teachings of the OT's big hitters: the Major and Minor Prophets. He contradicted himself on this subject, however. As I remember him saying at different times that he had come to overthrow the Law, as well as saying he came to Uphold it.

And he had many a run-in with the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin, who were all about the Law, i.e. the Torah.

Any itinerant preacher in 1st Century Palestine would really have no choice but to quote from the OT (which it was not even called back then, but rather was only a very loose collection of old papyrus scrolls).

But that doesn't mean it does any real good for helping a modern day Chrisitan--especially the liberal and progressive ones--understand God. Or find hints and teachings for leading better lives and trying to improve their contact and understanding of their Creator.

Context, amigo.

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say the OT is okay for Jews, but not westerners. It's either true or it's not. It's either the word of God or it's not. It doesn't matter whether ancient Jews OR modern westerners approve of it. Your original question--the title of this thread--is whether Christians should ditch the Old Testament. My point was that they cannot ditch the Old Testament and remain consistent with Christianity. Christianity is a religion centered around the notion that Jesus of Nazareth was who he claimed to be--a prophet, a messiah, and the son of God. To be a Christian is to be a follower of him. To be his follower is to believe what he believed and to practice what he taught. If Jesus endorsed the Old Testament, then Christians ought to endorse the old testament. If they don't, then they aren't really following Jesus.

This ---^ /end thread.

The whole new testament presupposes the old testament. The whole notion that there would be a messiah is based on old testament prophecies, which in turn are based on promises that God supposedly gave to David, Solomon, and the people of Israel that are recorded in the Old Testament.

I am aware of places in the gospels where Jesus endorsed the Mosaic law, but I am not aware of any place where Jesus overthrew the law. And his controversies with the Pharisees and Saducees did not center around whether the Law was true or whether God actually gave the Law to Moses, but rather how they should be interpreted or whether they were nullified by tradition.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Vox_Veritas
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6/12/2015 7:19:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

That'd be dishonest, though.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/12/2015 8:46:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 7:02:31 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 6/12/2015 3:42:42 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

It's wicked to take away from the Word of The Most High GOD.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the wordes of the booke of this prophesie, God shal take away his part out of the booke of life, and out of the holy citie, and from the things which are written in this booke.

That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.

So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?
bulproof
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6/12/2015 11:17:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 8:46:35 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/12/2015 7:02:31 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 6/12/2015 3:42:42 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

It's wicked to take away from the Word of The Most High GOD.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the wordes of the booke of this prophesie, God shal take away his part out of the booke of life, and out of the holy citie, and from the things which are written in this booke.

That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.

So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

Since the bible wouldn't exist for another 200yrs, yes it is.
It's all it can refer to.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/12/2015 11:40:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 11:17:00 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/12/2015 8:46:35 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/12/2015 7:02:31 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 6/12/2015 3:42:42 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

It's wicked to take away from the Word of The Most High GOD.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the wordes of the booke of this prophesie, God shal take away his part out of the booke of life, and out of the holy citie, and from the things which are written in this booke.

That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.

So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

Since the bible wouldn't exist for another 200yrs, yes it is.
It's all it can refer to.

LOL.....
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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6/13/2015 12:46:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

DrP, it's true that Old Testament doesn't work as theology, and modern people who try to make it work end up either ignoring and dismissing arbitrary lumps of it, or doing their own heads in. I think it works fine as literature and as an anthropological artefact of its time, but nothing more.

However, I don't think the New Testament is great modern theology either. A heaven that only members of a Judaic offshoot faith can get into, and only if they believe the right things, simply doesn't work in a pluralistic society; and Christian canon is silent on a bunch of critical modern issues, excessively servile to government, and paternalistic about women and children, and therefore outdated.

So modern Christians end up having to ignore, reinterpret or add to bunches of the New Testament too, and fall back on the old saw "What would Jesus do if he lived today" (by which I think they typically mean not an Iron Age, rent-paying day-labourer of a conservative, xenophobic backwater culture under colonial occupation, but a democratic, English-speaking Jesus with a car, a suburban home, a college degree and a white collar job.)

So: sure. Christianity should (and most of it has) ditched the Old Testament -- or reinterpreted it to mean something that could not possibly have been intended for ancient audiences. But it's also warping the New Testament to create a Jesus and Apostles more like modern Christians.

That's theology for you: deceitful one day; evasive the next.
Skepticalone
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6/13/2015 1:20:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 8:46:35 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/12/2015 7:02:31 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 6/12/2015 3:42:42 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/12/2015 2:21:58 PM, drpiek wrote:
I am not a christian but I have noticed that most of the problems people have with Christianity are not with the teachings of Christ, but with the stories of the old testament. Even though there are some far fetched things in the new testament, it would be a far more believable story if it was not tied to the Jewish mythology.

Thoughts?

It's wicked to take away from the Word of The Most High GOD.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the wordes of the booke of this prophesie, God shal take away his part out of the booke of life, and out of the holy citie, and from the things which are written in this booke.

That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.

So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

The Bible is a collection of books written by many authors over hundreds and hundreds of years. When the writer of Revelation did his work he did not know his book would ever be considered Canon. As such, he was not referring to the other books of the Bible.

FYI - it might interest you to contemplate what was considered scripture when 2nd Timothy 3:16 was written.

2nd Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
TheWORDisLIFE
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6/13/2015 11:13:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Bible is a collection of books written by many authors over hundreds and hundreds of years. When the writer of Revelation did his work he did not know his book would ever be considered Canon. As such, he was not referring to the other books of the Bible.

FYI - it might interest you to contemplate what was considered scripture when 2nd Timothy 3:16 was written.

2nd Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


All Scripture, exactly, not just the Book of Revelations. The entire Bible is all Scripture, regardless of what you or any other man thinks, its all Scripture, it's all inspired by God. I don't need to ponder on what was considered Scripture. That's like me telling you, think about what books are actually considered educational that you learned from and graduated from in Elementary school, high school, etc... because they were all written by man. There is a reason why certain books were taken from the Bible. People, especially Esau, didn't want the real Jews knowing who they are, nor did he want the rest of the world to know who we so called blacks, latinos & native Americans really are; we are the children of the Transatlantic Slave Trade, we are the people that fit the slavery in the Bible, we are the Israelites. The Bible is not a universal book and that is what Esau made our Book to be, a universal book where everyone can obtain salvation. The Bible belongs to the Israelites, it was written by the Israelites, to the Israelites, for the Israelites, it was written so that no other nation can understand it but the real Israelites. So again, I don't care about what you or any other man think about the Bible, the Bible belongs to my people, not the so called white man, asian man, arab man, etc... it belongs to the so called "African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans". If you think the bible has no credibility, fine that's what you think, just like the so called "Educational" text books that were written by man have no credibility. Those school text books were written by the same man that enslaved us and he expects us Israelites to believe what he teaches, he's out of his mind, his school system sucks too, nothing but a bunch of lies being taught.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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6/13/2015 11:27:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 11:13:13 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
The Bible is a collection of books written by many authors over hundreds and hundreds of years. When the writer of Revelation did his work he did not know his book would ever be considered Canon. As such, he was not referring to the other books of the Bible.

FYI - it might interest you to contemplate what was considered scripture when 2nd Timothy 3:16 was written.

2nd Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


All Scripture, exactly, not just the Book of Revelations. The entire Bible is all Scripture, regardless of what you or any other man thinks, its all Scripture, it's all inspired by God. I don't need to ponder on what was considered Scripture. That's like me telling you, think about what books are actually considered educational that you learned from and graduated from in Elementary school, high school, etc... because they were all written by man. There is a reason why certain books were taken from the Bible. People, especially Esau, didn't want the real Jews knowing who they are, nor did he want the rest of the world to know who we so called blacks, latinos & native Americans really are; we are the children of the Transatlantic Slave Trade, we are the people that fit the slavery in the Bible, we are the Israelites. The Bible is not a universal book and that is what Esau made our Book to be, a universal book where everyone can obtain salvation. The Bible belongs to the Israelites, it was written by the Israelites, to the Israelites, for the Israelites, it was written so that no other nation can understand it but the real Israelites. So again, I don't care about what you or any other man think about the Bible, the Bible belongs to my people, not the so called white man, asian man, arab man, etc... it belongs to the so called "African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans". If you think the bible has no credibility, fine that's what you think, just like the so called "Educational" text books that were written by man have no credibility. Those school text books were written by the same man that enslaved us and he expects us Israelites to believe what he teaches, he's out of his mind, his school system sucks too, nothing but a bunch of lies being taught.

Shhhh everyone, don't let on and tell TheWORDisLIFE the Bible was also written by men.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/13/2015 11:32:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 11:27:33 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:13:13 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
The Bible is a collection of books written by many authors over hundreds and hundreds of years. When the writer of Revelation did his work he did not know his book would ever be considered Canon. As such, he was not referring to the other books of the Bible.

FYI - it might interest you to contemplate what was considered scripture when 2nd Timothy 3:16 was written.

2nd Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


All Scripture, exactly, not just the Book of Revelations. The entire Bible is all Scripture, regardless of what you or any other man thinks, its all Scripture, it's all inspired by God. I don't need to ponder on what was considered Scripture. That's like me telling you, think about what books are actually considered educational that you learned from and graduated from in Elementary school, high school, etc... because they were all written by man. There is a reason why certain books were taken from the Bible. People, especially Esau, didn't want the real Jews knowing who they are, nor did he want the rest of the world to know who we so called blacks, latinos & native Americans really are; we are the children of the Transatlantic Slave Trade, we are the people that fit the slavery in the Bible, we are the Israelites. The Bible is not a universal book and that is what Esau made our Book to be, a universal book where everyone can obtain salvation. The Bible belongs to the Israelites, it was written by the Israelites, to the Israelites, for the Israelites, it was written so that no other nation can understand it but the real Israelites. So again, I don't care about what you or any other man think about the Bible, the Bible belongs to my people, not the so called white man, asian man, arab man, etc... it belongs to the so called "African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans". If you think the bible has no credibility, fine that's what you think, just like the so called "Educational" text books that were written by man have no credibility. Those school text books were written by the same man that enslaved us and he expects us Israelites to believe what he teaches, he's out of his mind, his school system sucks too, nothing but a bunch of lies being taught.

Shhhh everyone, don't let on and tell TheWORDisLIFE the Bible was also written by men.

Uhhhh duh, why do you think I said school books were also written by man.
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/13/2015 11:36:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 11:27:33 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:13:13 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
The Bible is a collection of books written by many authors over hundreds and hundreds of years. When the writer of Revelation did his work he did not know his book would ever be considered Canon. As such, he was not referring to the other books of the Bible.

FYI - it might interest you to contemplate what was considered scripture when 2nd Timothy 3:16 was written.

2nd Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


All Scripture, exactly, not just the Book of Revelations. The entire Bible is all Scripture, regardless of what you or any other man thinks, its all Scripture, it's all inspired by God. I don't need to ponder on what was considered Scripture. That's like me telling you, think about what books are actually considered educational that you learned from and graduated from in Elementary school, high school, etc... because they were all written by man. There is a reason why certain books were taken from the Bible. People, especially Esau, didn't want the real Jews knowing who they are, nor did he want the rest of the world to know who we so called blacks, latinos & native Americans really are; we are the children of the Transatlantic Slave Trade, we are the people that fit the slavery in the Bible, we are the Israelites. The Bible is not a universal book and that is what Esau made our Book to be, a universal book where everyone can obtain salvation. The Bible belongs to the Israelites, it was written by the Israelites, to the Israelites, for the Israelites, it was written so that no other nation can understand it but the real Israelites. So again, I don't care about what you or any other man think about the Bible, the Bible belongs to my people, not the so called white man, asian man, arab man, etc... it belongs to the so called "African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans". If you think the bible has no credibility, fine that's what you think, just like the so called "Educational" text books that were written by man have no credibility. Those school text books were written by the same man that enslaved us and he expects us Israelites to believe what he teaches, he's out of his mind, his school system sucks too, nothing but a bunch of lies being taught.

Shhhh everyone, don't let on and tell TheWORDisLIFE the Bible was also written by men.

Every book was written by man, so why is it that the Bible is a problem if it was also written by man? You learn from books written by man, and we learn from a book written by godly men, what's the big issue?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,586
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6/13/2015 11:39:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 11:36:18 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:27:33 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:13:13 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
The Bible is a collection of books written by many authors over hundreds and hundreds of years. When the writer of Revelation did his work he did not know his book would ever be considered Canon. As such, he was not referring to the other books of the Bible.

FYI - it might interest you to contemplate what was considered scripture when 2nd Timothy 3:16 was written.

2nd Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


All Scripture, exactly, not just the Book of Revelations. The entire Bible is all Scripture, regardless of what you or any other man thinks, its all Scripture, it's all inspired by God. I don't need to ponder on what was considered Scripture. That's like me telling you, think about what books are actually considered educational that you learned from and graduated from in Elementary school, high school, etc... because they were all written by man. There is a reason why certain books were taken from the Bible. People, especially Esau, didn't want the real Jews knowing who they are, nor did he want the rest of the world to know who we so called blacks, latinos & native Americans really are; we are the children of the Transatlantic Slave Trade, we are the people that fit the slavery in the Bible, we are the Israelites. The Bible is not a universal book and that is what Esau made our Book to be, a universal book where everyone can obtain salvation. The Bible belongs to the Israelites, it was written by the Israelites, to the Israelites, for the Israelites, it was written so that no other nation can understand it but the real Israelites. So again, I don't care about what you or any other man think about the Bible, the Bible belongs to my people, not the so called white man, asian man, arab man, etc... it belongs to the so called "African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans". If you think the bible has no credibility, fine that's what you think, just like the so called "Educational" text books that were written by man have no credibility. Those school text books were written by the same man that enslaved us and he expects us Israelites to believe what he teaches, he's out of his mind, his school system sucks too, nothing but a bunch of lies being taught.

Shhhh everyone, don't let on and tell TheWORDisLIFE the Bible was also written by men.

Every book was written by man, so why is it that the Bible is a problem if it was also written by man? You learn from books written by man, and we learn from a book written by godly men, what's the big issue?

The issue is obvious, how do you know the Bible was written by "godly" men? Where is your evidence they were "godly"?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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6/13/2015 11:39:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/12/2015 11:40:37 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.

So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

Bul wrote:
Since the bible wouldn't exist for another 200yrs, yes it is.
It's all it can refer to.

twilf wrote.
LOL.....

Are you unaware of the history of your bible?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/13/2015 11:46:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 11:39:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/12/2015 11:40:37 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.


So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

Bul wrote:
Since the bible wouldn't exist for another 200yrs, yes it is.
It's all it can refer to.

twilf wrote.
LOL.....

Are you unaware of the history of your bible?

If you deny that African American's Hispanics and Native Americans were enslaved, although it's recorded in History, then I certainly don't want to see your ignorance posted.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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6/13/2015 11:58:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 11:46:27 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:39:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/12/2015 11:40:37 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.


So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

Bul wrote:
Since the bible wouldn't exist for another 200yrs, yes it is.
It's all it can refer to.

twilf wrote.
LOL.....

Are you unaware of the history of your bible?

If you deny that African American's Hispanics and Native Americans were enslaved, although it's recorded in History, then I certainly don't want to see your ignorance posted.

Do you possibly see where your idiocy begins? I've been trying to make you THINK about it since you got here dear little thing.
Native americans existed prior to european invasion but their enslavement is questionable at the very least.
There were absolutely no "african americans" enslaved by americans. Africans were enslaved by americans but african americans were never enslaved by any nation on the planet, much less all the nations that you claim.
Have you discovered yet who the Javanese are?
I doubt it.
An education would do you a great service when you attempt a discussion with people who have availed themselves of such.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/13/2015 12:00:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 11:39:42 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:36:18 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:27:33 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:13:13 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
The Bible is a collection of books written by many authors over hundreds and hundreds of years. When the writer of Revelation did his work he did not know his book would ever be considered Canon. As such, he was not referring to the other books of the Bible.

FYI - it might interest you to contemplate what was considered scripture when 2nd Timothy 3:16 was written.

2nd Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


All Scripture, exactly, not just the Book of Revelations. The entire Bible is all Scripture, regardless of what you or any other man thinks, its all Scripture, it's all inspired by God. I don't need to ponder on what was considered Scripture. That's like me telling you, think about what books are actually considered educational that you learned from and graduated from in Elementary school, high school, etc... because they were all written by man. There is a reason why certain books were taken from the Bible. People, especially Esau, didn't want the real Jews knowing who they are, nor did he want the rest of the world to know who we so called blacks, latinos & native Americans really are; we are the children of the Transatlantic Slave Trade, we are the people that fit the slavery in the Bible, we are the Israelites. The Bible is not a universal book and that is what Esau made our Book to be, a universal book where everyone can obtain salvation. The Bible belongs to the Israelites, it was written by the Israelites, to the Israelites, for the Israelites, it was written so that no other nation can understand it but the real Israelites. So again, I don't care about what you or any other man think about the Bible, the Bible belongs to my people, not the so called white man, asian man, arab man, etc... it belongs to the so called "African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans". If you think the bible has no credibility, fine that's what you think, just like the so called "Educational" text books that were written by man have no credibility. Those school text books were written by the same man that enslaved us and he expects us Israelites to believe what he teaches, he's out of his mind, his school system sucks too, nothing but a bunch of lies being taught.

Shhhh everyone, don't let on and tell TheWORDisLIFE the Bible was also written by men.

Every book was written by man, so why is it that the Bible is a problem if it was also written by man? You learn from books written by man, and we learn from a book written by godly men, what's the big issue?

The issue is obvious, how do you know the Bible was written by "godly" men? Where is your evidence they were "godly"?

If they weren't godly (keeping the Law), they wouldn't have known that we were going to be enslaved and arrive to America on cargo slave ships; they wouldn't have known that we were going to be sold to our enemies as bondmen & bondwomen; they wouldn't have known that we were going to be raped; they wouldn't have known that those who enslaved us would kill us and count us as animals. So you tell me, how could men thousands of years ago, know that this was going to happen to us so called "Blacks, Latinos, & Native Americans"?
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/13/2015 12:02:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 11:58:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:46:27 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:39:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/12/2015 11:40:37 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.


So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

Bul wrote:
Since the bible wouldn't exist for another 200yrs, yes it is.
It's all it can refer to.

twilf wrote.
LOL.....

Are you unaware of the history of your bible?

If you deny that African American's Hispanics and Native Americans were enslaved, although it's recorded in History, then I certainly don't want to see your ignorance posted.

Do you possibly see where your idiocy begins? I've been trying to make you THINK about it since you got here dear little thing.
Native americans existed prior to european invasion but their enslavement is questionable at the very least.
There were absolutely no "african americans" enslaved by americans. Africans were enslaved by americans but african americans were never enslaved by any nation on the planet, much less all the nations that you claim.
Have you discovered yet who the Javanese are?
I doubt it.
An education would do you a great service when you attempt a discussion with people who have availed themselves of such.

Woooowwww...okay lol
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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6/13/2015 12:07:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 12:02:24 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:58:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:46:27 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:39:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/12/2015 11:40:37 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.


So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

Bul wrote:
Since the bible wouldn't exist for another 200yrs, yes it is.
It's all it can refer to.

twilf wrote.
LOL.....

Are you unaware of the history of your bible?

If you deny that African American's Hispanics and Native Americans were enslaved, although it's recorded in History, then I certainly don't want to see your ignorance posted.

Do you possibly see where your idiocy begins? I've been trying to make you THINK about it since you got here dear little thing.
Native americans existed prior to european invasion but their enslavement is questionable at the very least.
There were absolutely no "african americans" enslaved by americans. Africans were enslaved by americans but african americans were never enslaved by any nation on the planet, much less all the nations that you claim.
Have you discovered yet who the Javanese are?
I doubt it.
An education would do you a great service when you attempt a discussion with people who have availed themselves of such.

Woooowwww...okay lol

I really don't mean to scare you as much as I obviously do.
Please get over your fear of me and try as hard as you can to discuss our differences.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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6/13/2015 12:10:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/13/2015 12:07:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/13/2015 12:02:24 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:58:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:46:27 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 6/13/2015 11:39:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/12/2015 11:40:37 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
That is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.


So Revelation 22:19 is just referring to the prophecies in the Book of Revelations?

Bul wrote:
Since the bible wouldn't exist for another 200yrs, yes it is.
It's all it can refer to.

twilf wrote.
LOL.....

Are you unaware of the history of your bible?

If you deny that African American's Hispanics and Native Americans were enslaved, although it's recorded in History, then I certainly don't want to see your ignorance posted.

Do you possibly see where your idiocy begins? I've been trying to make you THINK about it since you got here dear little thing.
Native americans existed prior to european invasion but their enslavement is questionable at the very least.
There were absolutely no "african americans" enslaved by americans. Africans were enslaved by americans but african americans were never enslaved by any nation on the planet, much less all the nations that you claim.
Have you discovered yet who the Javanese are?
I doubt it.
An education would do you a great service when you attempt a discussion with people who have availed themselves of such.

Woooowwww...okay lol

I really don't mean to scare you as much as I obviously do.
Please get over your fear of me and try as hard as you can to discuss our differences.

cool