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Saint_of_Me
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6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45

What say you, christian?
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/21/2015 5:17:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.

This alone ought to tell you that your source is completely bogus.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/21/2015 5:30:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I doubt many will tell you what they think about that because they do not want to believe it so they will simply close their eyes and pretend to not see it.

The interesting thing is that it provides evidence that the stories are all fictional. The names of the mythical characters make no difference to the message in the stories.
It appears the same message has been conveyed through similar stories even before the books of the NT were written.

It makes one look closer at the stories to find the message rather than just skim the surface and believe that a faith in a mythical character can save anyone from anything.

The question is do people need saving from anything? If so, from what do they need saving and what methods or processes are available to save them?

What message does the story convey to you ?
It is obviously not about a fictional character saving anyone from a fictional place called hell.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/21/2015 5:33:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!

Yes they can... Jesus is a myth. << See.

The character is nothing but a personification of a principle which is about Living a WAY of LIFE in TRUTH.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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6/21/2015 7:18:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 5:33:29 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!

Yes they can... Jesus is a myth. << See.

The character is nothing but a personification of a principle which is about Living a WAY of LIFE in TRUTH.

CHRISTIAN... Christ Follower!!! They did not follow a MYTH into Martyrdom! Some maybe but NOT thousands!!!
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/21/2015 8:15:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!

How can you prove JC is any more historical as Dionysus?

There has been MORE written about him in Greek and Roman mythos than JC in Judeo-Christian stuff.

Also..How can you explain that christians use the same b-day, virgin birth, and a dozen other things of somebody who ANY source will show pre-dated him?

LOL--In other words....how can you claim all the JC stuff is original? (Well, you can't--as any writings will show.)

My link is totally accurate. I can provide as many as you wish showing that Did by far pre-dated JC. Why then does JC have the same b-day? (Even somebody mildly acquainted with Comp Religions should know JC was not born then, anyway. But rather that date was used by the Jews to coincide with the Roman pagan Saturnalius Fest. Look that up too! Most biblical scholars think JC was born around early May.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/21/2015 8:17:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!

Sure they can!

And they do. Many. many people.

Like these...........

http://www.gotquestions.org...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/21/2015 8:21:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 7:02:17 PM, mOnkey031 wrote:
Jesus Christ is actually a real person, and not a myth. https://en.wikipedia.org...

So you provide a link which compares the myths? That is hilarious.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/21/2015 8:26:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 7:18:53 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:33:29 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!

Yes they can... Jesus is a myth. << See.

The character is nothing but a personification of a principle which is about Living a WAY of LIFE in TRUTH.

CHRISTIAN... Christ Follower!!! They did not follow a MYTH into Martyrdom! Some maybe but NOT thousands!!!

They followed a principle. It makes no difference if the character JC was real or not if they follow the principle the character conveyed which is to love the enemy and turn the other cheek.
Anyone can follow the principle without believing the character was some historical supernatural miracle worker. All they need to believe is that there is value in the principle and it is worth following.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/21/2015 8:48:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 8:21:07 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/21/2015 7:02:17 PM, mOnkey031 wrote:
Jesus Christ is actually a real person, and not a myth. https://en.wikipedia.org...

So you provide a link which compares the myths? That is hilarious.

Exactly.

That is what I did.

In an attempt to show the Fundamentalist that there JC and even their Yahweh are by no means unique. or that they even exist. or existed. But are merely one more example of mankind's obsession with finding gods and deities to comfort them.

And, funny...I have been often accused of being a Pagan by christians--and I agree I am and also am Proud of it. But, uh-oh...lookie here. Seems that most of those christians holidays and rituals were lifted from Pagan ones! LOL. Yes--Pagan ones that cam way earlier in time. So this in itself proves all that Judeo-Christian dogma is not original or unique. Let alone true.

Ironic...since I do not observe these holidays I may be less of a Pagan than the Fundies!!

LOL.

here are some examples..........

http://www.nazarite.net...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/21/2015 8:49:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 5:17:45 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.

This alone ought to tell you that your source is completely bogus.

they are myths..just like JC and yahweh.

Also...most if not all of christians holidays are simply copied from older Pagan ones.

Like these.............

http://www.nazarite.net...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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6/21/2015 8:50:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 8:26:36 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/21/2015 7:18:53 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:33:29 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!

Yes they can... Jesus is a myth. << See.

The character is nothing but a personification of a principle which is about Living a WAY of LIFE in TRUTH.

CHRISTIAN... Christ Follower!!! They did not follow a MYTH into Martyrdom! Some maybe but NOT thousands!!!

They followed a principle. It makes no difference if the character JC was real or not if they follow the principle the character conveyed which is to love the enemy and turn the other cheek.
Anyone can follow the principle without believing the character was some historical supernatural miracle worker. All they need to believe is that there is value in the principle and it is worth following.

Acts 11:26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

1 Peter 4:16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,051
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6/21/2015 8:58:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 8:17:42 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!


Sure they can!

And they do. Many. many people.

Like these...........

http://www.gotquestions.org...

There are thousands of Martyrs... All with the title Christian.. They were called and accused as cannibals back 2000 years ago... Because they believed in eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking his blood! Jesus taught this ...
53 Jesus said, "I tell you the truth. You must eat the flesh of the Son of Man. And you must drink his blood. If you don"t do this, then you won"t have real life in you.

These Christ followers went to their death believing this teaching from Jesus! They believed and taught eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking his blood in the form of bread and wine... They still do today!!!
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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6/21/2015 9:10:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 8:17:42 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!


Sure they can!

And they do. Many. many people.

Like these...........

http://www.gotquestions.org...

...you do realize that the source you just provided debunks your claims, right?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/21/2015 9:12:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 8:49:45 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:17:45 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.

This alone ought to tell you that your source is completely bogus.



they are myths..just like JC and yahweh.

Also...most if not all of christians holidays are simply copied from older Pagan ones.

Like these.............

http://www.nazarite.net...

There's no indication in your response that you understand why I responded the way I did, so let me explain myself. Nobody would use "born on December 25th" as a parallel between the Jesus of the New Testament and Dionysus if they actually knew what they were talking about and were trying to be honest. The reason is because the New Testament does not give the date of Jesus' birth and there's no evidence that Christians had any interest in the date of his birth until the third century when many believed he was born in March. The date was later moved to December 25th. So Jesus being born on December 25th is not part of the New Testament, and it has nothing to do with Christian origins. Anybody with the slightest familiarity with the New Testament and early Christianity would know this. The fact that somebody would include it in a list of supposed parallels between Jesus and Dionysus shows that the person is either being very sloppy with the facts or they are being dishonest.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/21/2015 9:17:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 9:10:28 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/21/2015 8:17:42 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!


Sure they can!

And they do. Many. many people.

Like these...........

http://www.gotquestions.org...

...you do realize that the source you just provided debunks your claims, right?

Not really.

Since I chose a source from a Christian website--so as not to be accused of going with Atheist sites as I have in the past--at the end of the article they make their apologist claim for JC's "uniqueness." Yes.

BUT--my OP's point was to show that the ancient hebrews and christians obviously borrowed from older, pre-dated Greek and Roman and Sumerian Mythos. Thus...JC realy could not have been an original. Or why is his b-day the same as Bacchus'?

And you should know---all biblical scholars agree, look this up, Vox--that nobody, even those who believe in JC, think his b-day was really December 25. This date was picked by the gospel writers to coincide with the Pagan Festival of Saturnalius--the Winter Solstice Celebration. (This mythos also is much older than christianity.)

Most think JC was born in late May..as there are mentions of shepherds and farmers in the fields working when he was born. (I am not sure where). This wold not have been going in in late December.

Hmm.seems ol' JC might've been a Taurus! LOL
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/21/2015 9:19:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 8:58:21 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 8:17:42 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!


Sure they can!

And they do. Many. many people.

Like these...........

http://www.gotquestions.org...

There are thousands of Martyrs... All with the title Christian.. They were called and accused as cannibals back 2000 years ago... Because they believed in eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking his blood! Jesus taught this ...
53 Jesus said, "I tell you the truth. You must eat the flesh of the Son of Man. And you must drink his blood. If you don"t do this, then you won"t have real life in you.

These Christ followers went to their death believing this teaching from Jesus! They believed and taught eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking his blood in the form of bread and wine... They still do today!!!

Don't fool yourself. Christians are not the only people who have died for what they believe. The principle of standing up for what you believe has a cost involved and that cost is the same for all regardless of whether you are Christian or not. It can be applied to anyone including the witches who were burned at the stakes. They also died for what they believed because other humans including Christians judged them as evil and not worthy of living.
Basically the principle of the story of witches being burned by Christians is no different than the religious crucifying Jesus due to their belief that he was of the devil.

https://thetaleofbittertruth.wordpress.com...

To die for your so called faith or belief is not exclusive to believers in Jesus.
It is a principle which applies to all people who refuse to conform to popular public opinion of a certain group regardless of the label of the group.
There are thousands of Martyrs... All with different titles and labels including witches.

The fact is that humans kill humans for religious reasons.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/21/2015 9:20:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 9:17:35 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 9:10:28 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/21/2015 8:17:42 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!


Sure they can!

And they do. Many. many people.

Like these...........

http://www.gotquestions.org...

...you do realize that the source you just provided debunks your claims, right?

Not really.

Since I chose a source from a Christian website--so as not to be accused of going with Atheist sites as I have in the past--at the end of the article they make their apologist claim for JC's "uniqueness." Yes.

BUT--my OP's point was to show that the ancient hebrews and christians obviously borrowed from older, pre-dated Greek and Roman and Sumerian Mythos. Thus...JC realy could not have been an original. Or why is his b-day the same as Bacchus'?

And you should know---all biblical scholars agree, look this up, Vox--that nobody, even those who believe in JC, think his b-day was really December 25. This date was picked by the gospel writers to coincide with the Pagan Festival of Saturnalius--the Winter Solstice Celebration. (This mythos also is much older than christianity.)

Most think JC was born in late May..as there are mentions of shepherds and farmers in the fields working when he was born. (I am not sure where). This wold not have been going in in late December.

Hmm.seems ol' JC might've been a Taurus! LOL

Here is a link on all that..........

http://www.religioustolerance.org...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,071
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6/21/2015 9:21:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 9:17:35 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 9:10:28 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/21/2015 8:17:42 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:21:56 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?
Dionysus is a MYTH!!!!
Jesus is a historical figure!! Big difference!!!

No one can say "Jesus is a Myth"!


Sure they can!

And they do. Many. many people.

Like these...........

http://www.gotquestions.org...

...you do realize that the source you just provided debunks your claims, right?

Not really.

Since I chose a source from a Christian website--so as not to be accused of going with Atheist sites as I have in the past--at the end of the article they make their apologist claim for JC's "uniqueness." Yes.

BUT--my OP's point was to show that the ancient hebrews and christians obviously borrowed from older, pre-dated Greek and Roman and Sumerian Mythos. Thus...JC realy could not have been an original. Or why is his b-day the same as Bacchus'?

And you should know---all biblical scholars agree, look this up, Vox--that nobody, even those who believe in JC, think his b-day was really December 25. This date was picked by the gospel writers to coincide with the Pagan Festival of Saturnalius--the Winter Solstice Celebration. (This mythos also is much older than christianity.)

Most think JC was born in late May..as there are mentions of shepherds and farmers in the fields working when he was born. (I am not sure where). This wold not have been going in in late December.

Hmm.seems ol' JC might've been a Taurus! LOL

Similar claims about Horus and Mithras are downright debunked in the article provided, and it states that the same is the case with Bacchus/Dionysus.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/21/2015 9:29:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 9:12:39 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/21/2015 8:49:45 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:17:45 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.

This alone ought to tell you that your source is completely bogus.



they are myths..just like JC and yahweh.

Also...most if not all of christians holidays are simply copied from older Pagan ones.

Like these.............

http://www.nazarite.net...

There's no indication in your response that you understand why I responded the way I did, so let me explain myself. Nobody would use "born on December 25th" as a parallel between the Jesus of the New Testament and Dionysus if they actually knew what they were talking about and were trying to be honest. The reason is because the New Testament does not give the date of Jesus' birth and there's no evidence that Christians had any interest in the date of his birth until the third century when many believed he was born in March. The date was later moved to December 25th. So Jesus being born on December 25th is not part of the New Testament, and it has nothing to do with Christian origins. Anybody with the slightest familiarity with the New Testament and early Christianity would know this. The fact that somebody would include it in a list of supposed parallels between Jesus and Dionysus shows that the person is either being very sloppy with the facts or they are being dishonest.

There is zero slop in my OP, bro.

FACT: The Christians and hebrews borrowed MANY MANY things from older Mythos. Including but mot limited to the Sumerians; the Greeks; and the Romans.

(Are you familiar with the Epic of Gilgamesh?) If not, check it out. It shows that the whole Noah/Flood deal in Genesis was just one of many earlier flood fables.

I have never had a christian explain to me how the Genesis flood can be true if somebody wrote about their own version hundreds of years before?

Maybe you can?

Or maybe you can explain how all those similarites in my OP from the much earlier Bacchus/Dionysius/Horus Mythos can lead on to in any way think the Jews did not lift them for their own versions. You are fixating on ONE mere point--the Dec. 25 b-day. What about all the rest of the stuff? The virgin birth? the riding into town on a donkey?

Use Occam's Razor, amigo. If you read an acount of something--that has never been proven in the least, BTW--and then also read an earlier account--one that pre-dated that story by centuries--and somebody asked you if it was mere coincidence? Or if the latter version borrowed from the first, what would you think?

And how could you possibly claim, in all honesty, that an already spurious story is not further dminished in its veracity when an earlier and strikingly account is made?
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/21/2015 9:33:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What the hell are you talking about?

Are you denying that the Bacchus story did not pre-date the JC one by hundreds of years? Show me one source that says it did not.

I will give you as many as you like that show how much the early christians borrowed from various myths of older peoples. Like the Sumerians.

Have you ever heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh? Check that out and tell me how the Flood/Noah can be original. Or true.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/21/2015 10:07:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 9:29:26 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 9:12:39 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/21/2015 8:49:45 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/21/2015 5:17:45 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.

This alone ought to tell you that your source is completely bogus.



they are myths..just like JC and yahweh.

Also...most if not all of christians holidays are simply copied from older Pagan ones.

Like these.............

http://www.nazarite.net...

There's no indication in your response that you understand why I responded the way I did, so let me explain myself. Nobody would use "born on December 25th" as a parallel between the Jesus of the New Testament and Dionysus if they actually knew what they were talking about and were trying to be honest. The reason is because the New Testament does not give the date of Jesus' birth and there's no evidence that Christians had any interest in the date of his birth until the third century when many believed he was born in March. The date was later moved to December 25th. So Jesus being born on December 25th is not part of the New Testament, and it has nothing to do with Christian origins. Anybody with the slightest familiarity with the New Testament and early Christianity would know this. The fact that somebody would include it in a list of supposed parallels between Jesus and Dionysus shows that the person is either being very sloppy with the facts or they are being dishonest.


There is zero slop in my OP, bro.

Really? So the New Testament actually dates Jesus' birth on December 25th??? Sure seems sloppy to me.

FACT: The Christians and hebrews borrowed MANY MANY things from older Mythos. Including but mot limited to the Sumerians; the Greeks; and the Romans.

(Are you familiar with the Epic of Gilgamesh?) If not, check it out. It shows that the whole Noah/Flood deal in Genesis was just one of many earlier flood fables.

I have never had a christian explain to me how the Genesis flood can be true if somebody wrote about their own version hundreds of years before?

Maybe you can?

You are changing the subject. We were talking about Jesus and Dionysus. I'm not going to chase your rabbit trails.

Or maybe you can explain how all those similarites in my OP from the much earlier Bacchus/Dionysius/Horus Mythos can lead on to in any way think the Jews did not lift them for their own versions.

Similarities? You mean like Jesus being born on December 25th? I just debunked that one. I'm not just going to grant you that these parallels exist. If you want me to respond to them, then you need to prove to me that they exist. Show me where they are in the primary sources. Show me in the New Testament where it says Jesus was born on December 25th. Show me in the primary sources about Dionysus that any of the things Dr. Matthews said about him are true. Why should I grant that he knows what he's talking about when it's plainly evident just from that one example I gave that he doesn't?

You are fixating on ONE mere point--the Dec. 25 b-day. What about all the rest of the stuff? The virgin birth? the riding into town on a donkey?

I focused on the one point for three reasons. First, it was to keep the conversation short and manageable. Second, because it illustrates the sloppiness of your source which raises doubt about the rest of the supposed parallels. Third, because it's not up to me to debunk these parallels; it's up to you to demonstrate that they are legitimate. You want us to just take your word for it, but we have good reason to be suspicious.

Use Occam's Razor, amigo. If you read an acount of something--that has never been proven in the least, BTW--and then also read an earlier account--one that pre-dated that story by centuries--and somebody asked you if it was mere coincidence? Or if the latter version borrowed from the first, what would you think?

Add to that that the author of the later story had access to the earlier stories, and I'd say that's a good argument that the later story borrowed from the earlier story. But I don't grant that the story of Jesus is untrue or that these "facts" about Dionysus are true, or that they predate Christianity, or that if they are true and predate Christianity that the early Christians were aware of them, or that even if they were aware of them they would've been interested in copying them. I grant that Dionysus predates Christianity, but I don't grant that everything said about him predates Christianity.

And how could you possibly claim, in all honesty, that an already spurious story is not further dminished in its veracity when an earlier and strikingly account is made?

I don't grant that the story of Jesus is spurious. If I did grant that, then it would make sense to speculate as to its origin. If I knew the author was privy to earlier stories, and if the story of Jesus was remarkably similar, and the similarities could not be explained by coincidence, then I'd suspect borrowing. But I don't grant any of that. If you want to convince me, you've got your work cut out for you.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Labarum312
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6/22/2015 9:45:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh goody, another Zeitgeist clone. Haven't you guys figured out that no one takes this stuff seriously who has any background at all in the history of religions? Most of the parallels you list are bogus: Dionysus was not associated with 12/25, Semele was anything but a virgin when Zeus was done with her, he was not a traveling teacher (traveling hellraiser, maybe), he did not have twelve disciples, the one who traveled to the underworld to rescue his loved one was not Dionysus - it was Orpheus - and no amount of days was specified (by the way, he failed). I could go on but the rest of it is pretty much bs as well. I have no idea where you "read up on Greek mythology" but it must have been from some crackpot like Acharya S and not someone with actual qualifications.

By the way, the Thomas F. Matthews you quote is not a qualified commentator on the subject. He is a professor of ART - not history or comparative religion. Regardless, he did not say anything resembling the parallels you named. He referred to artwork in the Byzantine period (post-Constantine) having similarities to motifs in earlier Dionysian images - not surprising since Constantine hired professionals to make the artwork in all those cathedrals he build and most of the artists had been doing pagan artwork up to that point. They just changed the names and did what they knew.

In any case, get an education before you post crap like this again. You are only making a fool of yourself. Even an avowed skeptic like Bart Ehrman laughs at this kind of garbage.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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6/22/2015 11:11:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The concept of God, divinity. Deity, virgin birth, miracles etc. etc existed before the creation of the Bible. In fact the Jews were not a cohesive civilized people but tribal groups trailing advanced civilizations like Egypt, Mesopotamia , Babylon India and China. The Jews were also repeatedly invaded and enslaved by their more powerful advanced neighbours. They were very few things that came from the ancient Jews. The Jews were more influenced by their neighbours and borrowed and incorporated what they learned from their neighbours into their own mythology. Even Christianity was a small sectarian religion followed by the Hellenic Jews.
Labarum312
Posts: 2
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6/22/2015 2:31:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 11:11:12 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The concept of God, divinity. Deity, virgin birth, miracles etc. etc existed before the creation of the Bible. In fact the Jews were not a cohesive civilized people but tribal groups trailing advanced civilizations like Egypt, Mesopotamia , Babylon India and China. The Jews were also repeatedly invaded and enslaved by their more powerful advanced neighbours. They were very few things that came from the ancient Jews. The Jews were more influenced by their neighbours and borrowed and incorporated what they learned from their neighbours into their own mythology. Even Christianity was a small sectarian religion followed by the Hellenic Jews.

The religions of the ancient world - including Greece, Egypt, M, esopotamia, etc. believed in deities that were actually part of nature. Zeus, Osiris, et al were not creator gods but something more akin to superheroes who personified a particular heavenly object (sun, moon, various planets or constellations) or aspect of nature (sea, wind, weather, seasons, etc.). Later some developed ideas of creator deities that were separate from these gods (e.g., Amun in Egypt) but the pantheons still were worshiped along with them. The idea of a people worshiping a single deity who is both creator and subsumes all the powers of nature is a uniquely Jewish development. The only near precedents would have been 1) the worship of Aten in the Armana period of Egypt and 2) the Zoroastrian dualist concept. However, in (1), the royal family were still divine as mediators of Aten and this was mainly the idea of the royal couple and not embraced by the people and in (2) there were two divine powers in struggle with no clear winner until the end of days. The embracing of monotheism by the Jews had no real precedent and the only question is when they embraced it. The only other monotheists of a sort were some of the philosophers but this was not central to any cult. Saying the Jews were completely derivative simply has no historical basis.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/22/2015 3:25:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 2:31:15 PM, Labarum312 wrote:
At 6/22/2015 11:11:12 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The concept of God, divinity. Deity, virgin birth, miracles etc. etc existed before the creation of the Bible. In fact the Jews were not a cohesive civilized people but tribal groups trailing advanced civilizations like Egypt, Mesopotamia , Babylon India and China. The Jews were also repeatedly invaded and enslaved by their more powerful advanced neighbours. They were very few things that came from the ancient Jews. The Jews were more influenced by their neighbours and borrowed and incorporated what they learned from their neighbours into their own mythology. Even Christianity was a small sectarian religion followed by the Hellenic Jews.

The religions of the ancient world - including Greece, Egypt, M, esopotamia, etc. believed in deities that were actually part of nature. Zeus, Osiris, et al were not creator gods but something more akin to superheroes who personified a particular heavenly object (sun, moon, various planets or constellations) or aspect of nature (sea, wind, weather, seasons, etc.). Later some developed ideas of creator deities that were separate from these gods (e.g., Amun in Egypt) but the pantheons still were worshiped along with them. The idea of a people worshiping a single deity who is both creator and subsumes all the powers of nature is a uniquely Jewish development. The only near precedents would have been 1) the worship of Aten in the Armana period of Egypt and 2) the Zoroastrian dualist concept. However, in (1), the royal family were still divine as mediators of Aten and this was mainly the idea of the royal couple and not embraced by the people and in (2) there were two divine powers in struggle with no clear winner until the end of days. The embracing of monotheism by the Jews had no real precedent and the only question is when they embraced it. The only other monotheists of a sort were some of the philosophers but this was not central to any cult. Saying the Jews were completely derivative simply has no historical basis.

Exactly right.

Mostly Nature and Agrarian Gods whom the people thought were responsible for the condition--weather--on which their livelihood--farming--depended. So in an earnest but well-intended and understandable--for the time!--attempt to curry favor with these Deities, they prayed and worshiped them

In fact, one of Yahweh's biggest--perhaps THE biggest rival was ol' Baal, who was also an Agrarian god.

The deities of Native Americans to this day are still Nature based gods. This has always made way more sense to me than to worship a homicidal and egotistical maniac like Yahweh. If I was forced at gunpoint to join a religion today--indeed, that is what it would take! LOL--I would join either the Native American Church (The Red Path) or Taoism, which is also sort of nature based, as well as Deist, NOT theist.

So...in the end I guess the main point of my OP was that all that Judeo-Christian stuff is just another in a long line of peoples' attempt to try and make sense of the harsh world they are thrust into. Like George Clooney's character said of religious types in the great movie "Oh Brother Where Art Thou?'.........."They musta been lookin' for answers."

But the great irony is that the answer lies within. And in knowledge. Which is power. And not int finding an imaginary BFF.

Drew.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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6/22/2015 3:39:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.
...

Even if your claims are true, which is not at all self-evident, the main point of Jesus is his words, not his miracles (unless we see that his greatest miracle is his love). If I would do all the miracles that Jesus did, you should not keep me as something special. If I would speak the words Jesus said, then I would be something. It is the words that Jesus told that make him the King.

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
John 6:63

Can you tell, what were the greatest teachings of Dionysus?
inferno
Posts: 10,559
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6/22/2015 3:47:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/21/2015 4:53:40 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Been reading some Greek Mythology, guys.

Seems Jesus was merely a Jewish "re-boot" or simply another version, of the ancient Greek God Bacchus, who was preceded by Dionysus. And even Horus before that!

These guys were all worshiped a GOOD 1000 years BEFORE Jesus!

So how can JC be considered real? Or original. (Feel free to look-up the timelines)

As you can see the similarities are amazing..........

The Greek god of wine, Dionysus or Bacchus, also called Bacchus, has been depicted as having been born of a virgin mother on December 25th; performing miracles such as changing water into wine; appearing surrounded by or one of 12 figures; bearing epithets such as "Father" and "Savior"; dying; resurrecting after three days; and ascending into heaven.

Dionysus shares the following attributes in common with the Christ character as found in the New Testament and Christian tradition.

Dionysus was born of a virgin on "December 25th" or the winter solstice.
He is the son of the heavenly Father.
As the Holy Child, Bacchus was placed in a cradle/crib/manger "among beasts."
Dionysus was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
Dionysus rode in a "triumphal procession" on an asss.
He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
The god traveled into the underworld to rescue his loved one, arising from the land of the dead after three days.
Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25th and ascended into heaven.
Bacchus was deemed "Father," "Liberator" and "Savior."
Dionysus was considered the "Only Begotten Son," "King of Kings," "God of Gods," "Sin Bearer," "Redeemer," "Anointed One" and the "Alpha and Omega."
He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
His sacrificial title of "Dendrites" or "Young Man of the Tree" indicates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
"Early Christian art is rich with Dionysiac associations, whether in boisterous representations of agape feasting, in the miracle of water-into-wine at Cana, in wine and vine motifs alluding to the Eucharaist, and most markedly...in the use of Dionysiac facial traits for representations of Christ."

"Dr. Thomas F. Mathews, The Clash of the Gods, 45



What say you, christian?

Believe what you must. But God exists. Your man made theories are entertaining at best.