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Motivation

kasmic
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6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why should someone believe there is a God?
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bladerunner060
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6/26/2015 2:05:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Are you asking for theists to provide justification? Your title is "motivation", so I'm wondering what you're getting at.
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kasmic
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6/26/2015 2:21:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 2:05:48 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Are you asking for theists to provide justification? Your title is "motivation", so I'm wondering what you're getting at.

You are correct. I should have worded my question differently. The way it is worded asks for justification for should... what I intended was to invite theists to attempt to motivate me in anyway they desire to believe in God.
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philochristos
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6/26/2015 2:40:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 2:21:13 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 2:05:48 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Are you asking for theists to provide justification? Your title is "motivation", so I'm wondering what you're getting at.

You are correct. I should have worded my question differently. The way it is worded asks for justification for should... what I intended was to invite theists to attempt to motivate me in anyway they desire to believe in God.

I think the only motivation anybody should have to believe anything is that there is justification for thinking it's true.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
kasmic
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6/26/2015 2:40:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 2:40:15 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 6/26/2015 2:21:13 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 2:05:48 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Are you asking for theists to provide justification? Your title is "motivation", so I'm wondering what you're getting at.

You are correct. I should have worded my question differently. The way it is worded asks for justification for should... what I intended was to invite theists to attempt to motivate me in anyway they desire to believe in God.

I think the only motivation anybody should have to believe anything is that there is justification for thinking it's true.

Sure, Justification for your beliefs presented in a way that may motivate me...
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kasmic
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6/26/2015 2:46:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As an open invitation, if someone is uncomfortable doing this on the forums feel free to friend me and we can chat via personal message.
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MadCornishBiker
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6/26/2015 3:00:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Because itis a fact. One should always believe what is true.
PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:02:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Answers to currently unexplained things, hope, something to look forward to, unity, community, a moral system, etc.
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kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:03:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Because itis a fact. One should always believe what is true.

How do you know it is a fact?
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kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:04:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:02:57 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Answers to currently unexplained things, hope, something to look forward to, unity, community, a moral system, etc.

Aside from the first one, is there a reason those others could not be achieved without God?
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
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"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

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PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:07:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:04:05 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:02:57 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Answers to currently unexplained things, hope, something to look forward to, unity, community, a moral system, etc.

Aside from the first one, is there a reason those others could not be achieved without God?

Not an easy and specific one. Hope is technically a "faith" concept, we have no idea what happens when we die, unity is more easily achieved by faith, community of those who share similar beliefs to carry out the moral system, and the moral system that isn't created by the self, rather creating a "right" and "wrong" guideline to prevent "evil" (defined as the loss of value (misery, death, etc.).
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

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kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:09:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:07:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:04:05 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:02:57 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Answers to currently unexplained things, hope, something to look forward to, unity, community, a moral system, etc.

Aside from the first one, is there a reason those others could not be achieved without God?

Not an easy and specific one. Hope is technically a "faith" concept, we have no idea what happens when we die, unity is more easily achieved by faith, community of those who share similar beliefs to carry out the moral system, and the moral system that isn't created by the self, rather creating a "right" and "wrong" guideline to prevent "evil" (defined as the loss of value (misery, death, etc.).

Being a part of a nation promotes all those same things.... shared identity, principles, etc.
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PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:12:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:09:26 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:07:03 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:04:05 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:02:57 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Answers to currently unexplained things, hope, something to look forward to, unity, community, a moral system, etc.

Aside from the first one, is there a reason those others could not be achieved without God?

Not an easy and specific one. Hope is technically a "faith" concept, we have no idea what happens when we die, unity is more easily achieved by faith, community of those who share similar beliefs to carry out the moral system, and the moral system that isn't created by the self, rather creating a "right" and "wrong" guideline to prevent "evil" (defined as the loss of value (misery, death, etc.).

Being a part of a nation promotes all those same things.... shared identity, principles, etc.

And is that really strong enough without propaganda and censored press (not everyone "likes" their nation considering the nation is governed by flawed "people")?And does it hurt to combine it? And what about the individual rather than the "whole"?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
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kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:13:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And is that really strong enough without propaganda and censored press (not everyone "likes" their nation considering the nation is governed by flawed "people")?And does it hurt to combine it? And what about the individual rather than the "whole"?

I would say the same issues are true with religion... is that really strong enough without propaganda etc...
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PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:17:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:13:51 PM, kasmic wrote:
And is that really strong enough without propaganda and censored press (not everyone "likes" their nation considering the nation is governed by flawed "people")?And does it hurt to combine it? And what about the individual rather than the "whole"?

I would say the same issues are true with religion... is that really strong enough without propaganda etc...

Religion is clearly more effective. And it's not "propaganda", it's belief.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

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kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:19:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:17:38 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:13:51 PM, kasmic wrote:
And is that really strong enough without propaganda and censored press (not everyone "likes" their nation considering the nation is governed by flawed "people")?And does it hurt to combine it? And what about the individual rather than the "whole"?

I would say the same issues are true with religion... is that really strong enough without propaganda etc...

Religion is clearly more effective. And it's not "propaganda", it's belief.

Propaganda is attempting to convince.... when missionaries in the early 1900's passed out pamphlets about God they called it propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com...

http://dictionary.reference.com...
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
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"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

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PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:20:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:19:26 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:17:38 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:13:51 PM, kasmic wrote:
And is that really strong enough without propaganda and censored press (not everyone "likes" their nation considering the nation is governed by flawed "people")?And does it hurt to combine it? And what about the individual rather than the "whole"?

I would say the same issues are true with religion... is that really strong enough without propaganda etc...

Religion is clearly more effective. And it's not "propaganda", it's belief.

Propaganda is attempting to convince.... when missionaries in the early 1900's passed out pamphlets about God they called it propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

And is that worse than the propaganda of communists and Nazis? Or do you think that's preferable?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

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PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:21:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:19:26 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:17:38 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:13:51 PM, kasmic wrote:
And is that really strong enough without propaganda and censored press (not everyone "likes" their nation considering the nation is governed by flawed "people")?And does it hurt to combine it? And what about the individual rather than the "whole"?

I would say the same issues are true with religion... is that really strong enough without propaganda etc...

Religion is clearly more effective. And it's not "propaganda", it's belief.

Propaganda is attempting to convince.... when missionaries in the early 1900's passed out pamphlets about God they called it propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

And it's kind of a "believe what you want" thing where we don't force it down your throat, unless you want a theocratic state.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:22:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And is that worse than the propaganda of communists and Nazis? Or do you think that's preferable?

Well considering that there is nothing inherently false about propaganda I don't think the question matters. Scripture is propaganda, heck anti smoking pamphlets are propaganda. That is not to say they are true or false, good or bad.
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Varrack
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6/26/2015 3:22:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Because the nature of our world: the fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life presumes the existence of a higher power. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver and the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.
kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:26:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And it's kind of a "believe what you want" thing where we don't force it down your throat, unless you want a theocratic state.

I am getting the impression that you may have understood my "nation provides those things" as me arguing that the state should replace religion. What I intended was to show that religion is not the only way to accomplish the benefits you listed.
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PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:27:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:22:07 PM, kasmic wrote:
And is that worse than the propaganda of communists and Nazis? Or do you think that's preferable?

Well considering that there is nothing inherently false about propaganda I don't think the question matters. Scripture is propaganda, heck anti smoking pamphlets are propaganda. That is not to say they are true or false, good or bad.

Can you think of any reason "why" not to believe in a religion? Because you're not arguing the spiritual aspects of it, rather a theocratic state, which I don't support.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:27:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:26:40 PM, kasmic wrote:
And it's kind of a "believe what you want" thing where we don't force it down your throat, unless you want a theocratic state.

I am getting the impression that you may have understood my "nation provides those things" as me arguing that the state should replace religion. What I intended was to show that religion is not the only way to accomplish the benefits you listed.

Religion is certainly a better way, no? And you're not arguing the other aspects of what a religion provides.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:28:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am not arguing a theocratic state vs... I was showing that Religion is not the only source of benefits. I am no more in favor of a theocratic state than I am of religion.
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kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:29:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Religion is certainly a better way, no? And you're not arguing the other aspects of what a religion provides.

Again I was attempting to demonstrate that the reasons you gave are not exclusive to religion. I was not attempting to provide an alternative.
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kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:34:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:22:12 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Because the nature of our world: the fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life presumes the existence of a higher power. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver and the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.

So, if I understand you, the reasons I should believe are

1. The nature of our world

The fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life.

2. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver

3. the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.

Is that correct?
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
PetersSmith
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6/26/2015 3:37:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:34:28 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:22:12 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Because the nature of our world: the fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life presumes the existence of a higher power. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver and the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.

So, if I understand you, the reasons I should believe are

1. The nature of our world

The fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life.

2. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver

3. the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.

Is that correct?

Not really. I'm saying religion is for answers to things that are currently unknown as well as provide spirituality (something that no ideology can provide) and morals. You seem to also be thinking that religion means "God" as proposed by the Abrahamic religions. Humans are no more special than any other sentient alien species in this universe. The goal is "Harmony".
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Varrack
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6/26/2015 3:40:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:34:28 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:22:12 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Because the nature of our world: the fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life presumes the existence of a higher power. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver and the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.

So, if I understand you, the reasons I should believe are

1. The nature of our world

The fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life.

2. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver

3. the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.

Is that correct?

Eeh, 3 needs a bit of work, but yeah, those are some reasons for believing that have been on my mind lately.
Varrack
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6/26/2015 3:40:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 3:37:11 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:34:28 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 3:22:12 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:43:43 PM, kasmic wrote:
Why should someone believe there is a God?

Because the nature of our world: the fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life presumes the existence of a higher power. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver and the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.

So, if I understand you, the reasons I should believe are

1. The nature of our world

The fact that our conditions are so perfect and that humans are so unique in comparison to all other species of life.

2. The presence of morality implies a moral lawgiver

3. the capability to think and make one's individual decisions suggests the existence of a soul.

Is that correct?

Not really. I'm saying religion is for answers to things that are currently unknown as well as provide spirituality (something that no ideology can provide) and morals. You seem to also be thinking that religion means "God" as proposed by the Abrahamic religions. Humans are no more special than any other sentient alien species in this universe. The goal is "Harmony".

He was talking to me.
kasmic
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6/26/2015 3:41:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not really. I'm saying religion is for answers to things that are currently unknown as well as provide spirituality (something that no ideology can provide) and morals. You seem to also be thinking that religion means "God" as proposed by the Abrahamic religions. Humans are no more special than any other sentient alien species in this universe. The goal is "Harmony".

That response was for Varrack's post haha.
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