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Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

YeshuaIsTheOneTrueGod
Posts: 25
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6/30/2015 12:11:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
While I disagree with the atheist belief, I have no problem with people who believe that there is no God. Atheists have the right to their belief. You cannot spell disbelief without belief.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/30/2015 1:01:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 12:11:31 AM, YeshuaIsTheOneTrueGod wrote:
While I disagree with the atheist belief, I have no problem with people who believe that there is no God. Atheists have the right to their belief. You cannot spell disbelief without belief.

It all depends on how you define the word God.
I believe in God but many people still call me an atheist because I do not believe in their version of God as an invisible supernatural character in the sky.
Philocat
Posts: 728
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6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:

Strong: I believe that there is no God

Weak: I do not believe in God

Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.

At 6/30/2015 1:01:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2015 12:11:31 AM, YeshuaIsTheOneTrueGod wrote:
While I disagree with the atheist belief, I have no problem with people who believe that there is no God. Atheists have the right to their belief. You cannot spell disbelief without belief.

It all depends on how you define the word God.
I believe in God but many people still call me an atheist because I do not believe in their version of God as an invisible supernatural character in the sky.

So are you a pantheist?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/30/2015 2:56:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:

Strong: I believe that there is no God

Weak: I do not believe in God

Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.

At 6/30/2015 1:01:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2015 12:11:31 AM, YeshuaIsTheOneTrueGod wrote:
While I disagree with the atheist belief, I have no problem with people who believe that there is no God. Atheists have the right to their belief. You cannot spell disbelief without belief.

It all depends on how you define the word God.
I believe in God but many people still call me an atheist because I do not believe in their version of God as an invisible supernatural character in the sky.

So are you a pantheist?

No
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.
This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.
Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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6/30/2015 6:05:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

The internet, that is where atheists get all their indoctrination from. They say the same things, phrases and words all over youtube, facebook and debates sites like little zombies who forgot they wanted to think for themselves, sound familiar?

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.
Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

Because you don't believe god exists and you believe it to be a fairy tale, therefore you won't believe any theist claims. That fits you a little better Bulpoop.
Nac
Posts: 326
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6/30/2015 6:31:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I sincerely do not understand why those who oppose any group attempt to redefine the word they use to identify themselves. It is only useful to create a strawman, which can be circumvented by simply changing the word used to identify themselves.

I will simply create skeptheism to avoid your claims, it will function exactly the same as the atheism these people use to identify themselves, and we are back to square one.

And to reply to Philocat, if a group of humans call themselves cats, that does not mean the word cat means human. It just means that the aforementioned group misidentified themselves.
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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6/30/2015 6:54:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 6:05:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

The internet, that is where atheists get all their indoctrination from. They say the same things, phrases and words all over youtube, facebook and debates sites like little zombies who forgot they wanted to think for themselves, sound familiar?

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.
Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

Because you don't believe god exists and you believe it to be a fairy tale, therefore you won't believe any theist claims. That fits you a little better Bulpoop.

I'll believe any theist claim that can provide sufficient evidence. Thus far not a single theist claim out of literally hundreds of thousands of them has managed to do so. I wouldn't buy snake oil from a salesman or go see a shaman to cure my ailments either. That is unless one of them could demonstrate the the truth of their claims.
Philocat
Posts: 728
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6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).

At 6/30/2015 2:56:57 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:

Strong: I believe that there is no God

Weak: I do not believe in God

Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.

At 6/30/2015 1:01:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2015 12:11:31 AM, YeshuaIsTheOneTrueGod wrote:
While I disagree with the atheist belief, I have no problem with people who believe that there is no God. Atheists have the right to their belief. You cannot spell disbelief without belief.

It all depends on how you define the word God.
I believe in God but many people still call me an atheist because I do not believe in their version of God as an invisible supernatural character in the sky.

So are you a pantheist?

No

How would you define your beliefs?
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).


That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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6/30/2015 7:40:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 6:05:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

The internet, that is where atheists get all their indoctrination from. They say the same things, phrases and words all over youtube, facebook and debates sites like little zombies who forgot they wanted to think for themselves, sound familiar?

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.
Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

Because you don't believe god exists and you believe it to be a fairy tale, therefore you won't believe any theist claims. That fits you a little better Bulpoop.

Poor little frightened theist I became an atheist before the internet injectected itself into the lives of the already informed.
Cavemen invented gods to explain what they found unexplainable, for 21st century humans to believe what cavemen believed is an indictment on those 21st century humans.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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6/30/2015 8:01:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 7:40:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:05:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

The internet, that is where atheists get all their indoctrination from. They say the same things, phrases and words all over youtube, facebook and debates sites like little zombies who forgot they wanted to think for themselves, sound familiar?

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.
Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

Because you don't believe god exists and you believe it to be a fairy tale, therefore you won't believe any theist claims. That fits you a little better Bulpoop.

Poor little frightened theist I became an atheist before the internet injectected itself into the lives of the already informed.
Cavemen invented gods to explain what they found unexplainable, for 21st century humans to believe what cavemen believed is an indictment on those 21st century humans.

I was 15 when it happened, in 1973. No internet, just a bible and a lot of stories that were impossible. The internet just made it easier to demonstrate just how impossible they are.
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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6/30/2015 8:03:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 6:05:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

The internet, that is where atheists get all their indoctrination from. They say the same things, phrases and words all over youtube, facebook and debates sites like little zombies who forgot they wanted to think for themselves, sound familiar?

lol. My God. It is so predictable one can set his watch by it. Have some new catch phrase or some new anti-theist argument infect the big atheist websites and 5.....4......3.....2, (wait for it)....1, and every two-bit atheist dweeb on the net is parroting it as if he came up with the idea himself. It's funny to watch happen.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.
Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

Because you don't believe god exists and you believe it to be a fairy tale, therefore you won't believe any theist claims. That fits you a little better Bulpoop.

The distinction will be lost on him EtrnlVw.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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6/30/2015 8:05:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:03:29 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:05:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

The internet, that is where atheists get all their indoctrination from. They say the same things, phrases and words all over youtube, facebook and debates sites like little zombies who forgot they wanted to think for themselves, sound familiar?

lol. My God. It is so predictable one can set his watch by it. Have some new catch phrase or some new anti-theist argument infect the big atheist websites and 5.....4......3.....2, (wait for it)....1, and every two-bit atheist dweeb on the net is parroting it as if he came up with the idea himself. It's funny to watch happen.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.
Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

Because you don't believe god exists and you believe it to be a fairy tale, therefore you won't believe any theist claims. That fits you a little better Bulpoop.

The distinction will be lost on him EtrnlVw.

And anything resembling facts are lost on you both. Amazing how willfully ignorant human beings can be.
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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6/30/2015 8:29:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:03:29 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:05:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

The internet, that is where atheists get all their indoctrination from. They say the same things, phrases and words all over youtube, facebook and debates sites like little zombies who forgot they wanted to think for themselves, sound familiar?

lol. My God. It is so predictable one can set his watch by it. Have some new catch phrase or some new anti-theist argument infect the big atheist websites and 5.....4......3.....2, (wait for it)....1, and every two-bit atheist dweeb on the net is parroting it as if he came up with the idea himself. It's funny to watch happen.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.
Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

Because you don't believe god exists and you believe it to be a fairy tale, therefore you won't believe any theist claims. That fits you a little better Bulpoop.

The distinction will be lost on him EtrnlVw.

bahahahaha
says the Catholic Book quoting apostate.
Quote ANYTHING I've said that comes from someone else poor little frightened godbotherer.
Just run off and pray and wait for the destruction of billions of people.
You know your most cherished wish/prayer.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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6/30/2015 8:41:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 12:11:31 AM, YeshuaIsTheOneTrueGod wrote:
While I disagree with the atheist belief, I have no problem with people who believe that there is no God. Atheists have the right to their belief. You cannot spell disbelief without belief.

Yes, and you can't spell ignorant without rant.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Philocat
Posts: 728
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6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).



That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.

Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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6/30/2015 8:48:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).



That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.

Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.

Are you saying there are no such things as theists?
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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6/30/2015 8:52:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.
Voila, it would seem that a very faint light may be shining upon the reality that the theists are obsessed with ignoring willfully.
Theists claim the existence of "gods", without such a claim atheism would not exist. Since atheists have NO evidence to support their claim atheism is the correct position by default.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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6/30/2015 8:55:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Since atheists have NO evidence"
***Since theists have NO evidence***

My mistake. LOL
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Philocat
Posts: 728
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6/30/2015 9:05:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:48:44 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).



That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.

Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.

Are you saying there are no such things as theists?

No. What I am saying is that, if Bulproof is right, then atheists can only exist if theists exist as well.

At 6/30/2015 8:52:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.
Voila, it would seem that a very faint light may be shining upon the reality that the theists are obsessed with ignoring willfully.
Theists claim the existence of "gods", without such a claim atheism would not exist. Since atheists have NO evidence to support their claim atheism is the correct position by default.

But you're creating your only definition of atheism here. That is not how definitions work.

Atheism is defined as 'the denial of the existence of God' (http://plato.stanford.edu...). Whether you like it or not, this is the philosophically established definition and if you believe you don't fit into this definition, then you need another ideology.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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6/30/2015 9:18:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.

And yet, it is the believer who has had the belief in gods drilled into their heads, a well known phenomenon called "religious indoctrination", whereupon the doctrines of any give religion are to be accepted without critical analysis. Hence, what is drilled into a non-believers head is the demanding of critical analysis of all doctrines and claims, something clearly missing in your post.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:

Strong: I believe that there is no God

Weak: I do not believe in God

Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.

I'm not surprised that this tired fallacy and blatant fabrication keeps getting trotted out time and again, despite the fact it has been explained many times already. Why can't believers learn anything? Oh yes, it's because they've been indoctrinated to believe in things and are unable to think and understand.

At 6/30/2015 1:01:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/30/2015 12:11:31 AM, YeshuaIsTheOneTrueGod wrote:
While I disagree with the atheist belief, I have no problem with people who believe that there is no God. Atheists have the right to their belief. You cannot spell disbelief without belief.

It all depends on how you define the word God.
I believe in God but many people still call me an atheist because I do not believe in their version of God as an invisible supernatural character in the sky.

So are you a pantheist?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Philocat
Posts: 728
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6/30/2015 9:32:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:18:38 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.

And yet, it is the believer who has had the belief in gods drilled into their heads, a well known phenomenon called "religious indoctrination", whereupon the doctrines of any give religion are to be accepted without critical analysis. Hence, what is drilled into a non-believers head is the demanding of critical analysis of all doctrines and claims, something clearly missing in your post.

Indoctrination is an unhelpful and emotive term, why exactly do you take it to mean?


This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:

Strong: I believe that there is no God

Weak: I do not believe in God

Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.

I'm not surprised that this tired fallacy and blatant fabrication keeps getting trotted out time and again, despite the fact it has been explained many times already. Why can't believers learn anything? Oh yes, it's because they've been indoctrinated to believe in things and are unable to think and understand.

Huh? What 'fallacy' are you referring to? What has 'been explained'?

dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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6/30/2015 9:33:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:05:01 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:48:44 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).



That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.

Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.

Are you saying there are no such things as theists?

No. What I am saying is that, if Bulproof is right, then atheists can only exist if theists exist as well.

At 6/30/2015 8:52:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.
Voila, it would seem that a very faint light may be shining upon the reality that the theists are obsessed with ignoring willfully.
Theists claim the existence of "gods", without such a claim atheism would not exist. Since atheists have NO evidence to support their claim atheism is the correct position by default.

But you're creating your only definition of atheism here. That is not how definitions work.

Atheism is defined as 'the denial of the existence of God' (http://plato.stanford.edu...). Whether you like it or not, this is the philosophically established definition and if you believe you don't fit into this definition, then you need another ideology.

Philosophical definitions are as meaningless as most other philosophical arguments, i.e., about nothing. The only one who really knows what I believe is me and that applies to every other human being on the planet.

It's like this.

atheism - noun
1. rejection of belief in God or gods

or this.
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Your definition is not exclusive and not the only one recognized by the world in general. Only theists who need an enemy or some way to combat the lack of evidence they suffer is to make up some need to deny their deity as an active mode of thought when atheism is actually quite passive. Atheists simply have no belief in any god or gods. If you are having a problem wrapping your head around that, well, that's just what it is, your problem.
Philocat
Posts: 728
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6/30/2015 9:39:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:33:59 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:05:01 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:48:44 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).



That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.

Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.

Are you saying there are no such things as theists?

No. What I am saying is that, if Bulproof is right, then atheists can only exist if theists exist as well.

At 6/30/2015 8:52:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.
Voila, it would seem that a very faint light may be shining upon the reality that the theists are obsessed with ignoring willfully.
Theists claim the existence of "gods", without such a claim atheism would not exist. Since atheists have NO evidence to support their claim atheism is the correct position by default.

But you're creating your only definition of atheism here. That is not how definitions work.

Atheism is defined as 'the denial of the existence of God' (http://plato.stanford.edu...). Whether you like it or not, this is the philosophically established definition and if you believe you don't fit into this definition, then you need another ideology.

Philosophical definitions are as meaningless as most other philosophical arguments, i.e., about nothing. The only one who really knows what I believe is me and that applies to every other human being on the planet.

It's like this.

atheism - noun
1. rejection of belief in God or gods

or this.
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Your definition is not exclusive and not the only one recognized by the world in general. Only theists who need an enemy or some way to combat the lack of evidence they suffer is to make up some need to deny their deity as an active mode of thought when atheism is actually quite passive. Atheists simply have no belief in any god or gods. If you are having a problem wrapping your head around that, well, that's just what it is, your problem.

That's fine, if one truly just lacks the belief in God, then good for them. What I take issue with is atheists arguing as if they actively believe that God doesn't not exist, and then resorting to the 'lack of belief in God' definition when it suits them.

But it's very odd how you seem to disregard philosophy; since philosophy is the basis to literally every single epistemology or ideology - including science.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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6/30/2015 9:41:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:32:43 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:18:38 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.

And yet, it is the believer who has had the belief in gods drilled into their heads, a well known phenomenon called "religious indoctrination", whereupon the doctrines of any give religion are to be accepted without critical analysis. Hence, what is drilled into a non-believers head is the demanding of critical analysis of all doctrines and claims, something clearly missing in your post.

Indoctrination is an unhelpful and emotive term

What is the term unhelpful and emotive?

why exactly do you take it to mean?

I already stated that in my post, did you not read it or not understand it?


This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:

Strong: I believe that there is no God

Weak: I do not believe in God

Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.

I'm not surprised that this tired fallacy and blatant fabrication keeps getting trotted out time and again, despite the fact it has been explained many times already. Why can't believers learn anything? Oh yes, it's because they've been indoctrinated to believe in things and are unable to think and understand.

Huh? What 'fallacy' are you referring to? What has 'been explained'?

The fallacy that "Most atheists in the religion forum are the former".

The explanation that we simply don't accept the claims of theists as opposed to stating emphatically there is no God.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Philocat
Posts: 728
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6/30/2015 10:04:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:41:51 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:32:43 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:18:38 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.

And yet, it is the believer who has had the belief in gods drilled into their heads, a well known phenomenon called "religious indoctrination", whereupon the doctrines of any give religion are to be accepted without critical analysis. Hence, what is drilled into a non-believers head is the demanding of critical analysis of all doctrines and claims, something clearly missing in your post.

Indoctrination is an unhelpful and emotive term

What is the term unhelpful and emotive?

Because of its pejorative connotations, people basically use it to cast a negative light on something they disapprove of. As follows:

1. Subject X is being taught and accepted by person Y

2. I don't like X

3. Y is being indoctrinated

Which isn't logically sound


why exactly do you take it to mean?

I already stated that in my post, did you not read it or not understand it?


This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:

Strong: I believe that there is no God

Weak: I do not believe in God

Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.

I'm not surprised that this tired fallacy and blatant fabrication keeps getting trotted out time and again, despite the fact it has been explained many times already. Why can't believers learn anything? Oh yes, it's because they've been indoctrinated to believe in things and are unable to think and understand.

Huh? What 'fallacy' are you referring to? What has 'been explained'?

The fallacy that "Most atheists in the religion forum are the former".

I wouldn't call it a fallacy, it's just what it looks like. Most atheists post in the religion forum as if they genuinely believe that God does not exist. Do you deny that you hold this belief?

The explanation that we simply don't accept the claims of theists as opposed to stating emphatically there is no God.

You do seem to emphatically argue that there is no God. Apologies if I am mistaken, but that is certainly what a lot of atheists argue on the religion forum.
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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6/30/2015 10:12:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:05:01 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:48:44 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).



That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.

Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.

Are you saying there are no such things as theists?

No. What I am saying is that, if Bulproof is right, then atheists can only exist if theists exist as well.

At 6/30/2015 8:52:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.
Voila, it would seem that a very faint light may be shining upon the reality that the theists are obsessed with ignoring willfully.
Theists claim the existence of "gods", without such a claim atheism would not exist. Since atheists have NO evidence to support their claim atheism is the correct position by default.

But you're creating your only definition of atheism here. That is not how definitions work.

Atheism is defined as 'the denial of the existence of God' (http://plato.stanford.edu...). Whether you like it or not, this is the philosophically established definition and if you believe you don't fit into this definition, then you need another ideology.

Who claims the existence of these gods?
You see, if there is no claim then the can be no rejection of the claim.
Who claims the existence of these gods?
And just a small enlightenment, atheism is not an IDEOLOGY...........bahahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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6/30/2015 10:18:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).



That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.

Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.

Like I said, just because nobody believes the idea doesn't mean that the idea doesn't exist. A theist claim is a theist claim regardless of who is making it, and even if nobody is making it. I lack a belief in any theistic ideas, and therefore I am an atheist. Even if I was totally unaware that theism existed I would still be an atheist because I lack belief in any theistic ideas. Atheism is the default state, and requires no knowledge of theism or its encompassing ideas. Obviously none of this gains any relevance until I and others are aware of the ideas. An atheist who has never heard of theism is still an atheist. The distinction is not very relevant without a theistic context, but it still exists.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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6/30/2015 10:24:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:39:40 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:33:59 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:05:01 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:48:44 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 7:32:55 AM, JMcKinley wrote:
At 6/30/2015 6:55:20 AM, Philocat wrote:
At 6/30/2015 3:10:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 2:51:11 AM, Philocat wrote:
I agree with your definition (that atheism is the belief that there is no God). Many atheists seem to have it drilled into their heads that atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, despite them taking a clearly strong-atheistic approach.
bahahaha, drilled into their heads by whom? The atheist POPE. OYG.

I didn't make any claims as to who drills it into their heads, only that they seem particularly hung up on insisting that atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

This is because there is a distinction between strong and weak atheism:
Theists claim that gods exist, that is all that can be said about gods, they are a CLAIM.

Strong: I believe that there is no God
I don't believe theist claims
Weak: I do not believe in God
I don't believe theist claims
Most atheists in the religion forum are the former.
I don't believe theist claims

No, you believe that what they claim to be true, is false. You don't just disbelieve their claims. This is because if all theists were instantly killed, nobody would be claiming that God exists. By your logic, this would mean that you are no longer atheists (because you define atheism as the disbelief in theist claims).



That is a fallacy. Just because there is nobody left alive who holds theistic views doesn't mean that the claims themselves no longer exist. If all theists disappeared tomorrow I would still be an atheist because I would still disbelieve any theistic claims that I have been presented with. The fact that no one is around to argue with me is irrelevant.

Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.

Are you saying there are no such things as theists?

No. What I am saying is that, if Bulproof is right, then atheists can only exist if theists exist as well.

At 6/30/2015 8:52:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:44:55 AM, Philocat wrote:
Bulproof said he is an atheist because 'he does not believe theist claims'. A claim is only a theist claim if it is made by a theist. If there are no theists, then no claims can by called theist claims.
Voila, it would seem that a very faint light may be shining upon the reality that the theists are obsessed with ignoring willfully.
Theists claim the existence of "gods", without such a claim atheism would not exist. Since atheists have NO evidence to support their claim atheism is the correct position by default.

But you're creating your only definition of atheism here. That is not how definitions work.

Atheism is defined as 'the denial of the existence of God' (http://plato.stanford.edu...). Whether you like it or not, this is the philosophically established definition and if you believe you don't fit into this definition, then you need another ideology.

Philosophical definitions are as meaningless as most other philosophical arguments, i.e., about nothing. The only one who really knows what I believe is me and that applies to every other human being on the planet.

It's like this.

atheism - noun
1. rejection of belief in God or gods

or this.
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Your definition is not exclusive and not the only one recognized by the world in general. Only theists who need an enemy or some way to combat the lack of evidence they suffer is to make up some need to deny their deity as an active mode of thought when atheism is actually quite passive. Atheists simply have no belief in any god or gods. If you are having a problem wrapping your head around that, well, that's just what it is, your problem.

That's fine, if one truly just lacks the belief in God, then good for them. What I take issue with is atheists arguing as if they actively believe that God doesn't not exist, and then resorting to the 'lack of belief in God' definition when it suits them.

But it's very odd how you seem to disregard philosophy; since philosophy is the basis to literally every single epistemology or ideology - including science.

Philosophy and science diverged long ago. Philosophy deals in ideas while science uses ideas and deals in facts. Philosophy has not cured a disease, created a life-saving device, enabled man to explore environments normally lethal to him, or any of millions of other things science has accomplished. Philosophy may help you see things from a different perspective, but it doesn't inform reality.

"What I take issue with is atheists arguing as if they actively believe that God doesn't not exist, and then resorting to the 'lack of belief in God' definition when it suits them."

Why should it not be valid? If there is no evidence, factual evidence that can be tested and verified, then disbelief and unbelief are functionally identical. If you assert the existence of any god or gods, the onus is upon you to support that assertion with valid evidence. NOTE: Philosophical arguments are not evidence without fact so support the basic assertions. If you have none then again, the unbeliever and the disbeliever will reject your claim. Functionally identical.

What troubles most unbelievers, myself included, is the demand from theists that we believe their claim of the existence of some deity without facts, simply because they say it is true. In the case of Christianity in particular, they claim that a book composed of writings from some 66 authors, heavily edited, redacted, and not based on one single original script and relating stories that do not correlate with known facts is absolutely true, or that it's at least telling the truth that the God of Abraham, Yahweh (originally one of a group of three) exists. It's nothing more than tribal myth institutionalized by a priest class and then by a Roman emperor who used it as a tool of imperialism. It is a product of men, by men, and has no more validity than any other collection of stories about deities.

In essence it is quite simple. You want me to accept your assertion of the existence of your god? As they say in Missouri, show me. Demonstrate the truth of your assertion with facts.