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A religious experience shrinks your brain

dee-em
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6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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6/30/2015 9:52:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Then I should live a long life as far as my hippocampus goes.

Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dee-em
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6/30/2015 10:17:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:52:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Then I should live a long life as far as my hippocampus goes.

It seems that the problem with religious affiliation may relate to stress. If you are in a large community which has similar beliefs and practices, then you feel like you belong and suffer less stress. That may be why the non-religious along with the born-agains and the Catholics in America suffer more atrophy as they age.

The real concern is between those with a LCRE and those without. I've obviously never had one, so I feel good about that.

Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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6/30/2015 10:29:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:20:36 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
A Religious Experience Shrinks Your Brain.

I've found the reverse too, D-E.

Please tell. I'm referring to a clinical study with MRI scans on the brain (hippocampus). Are you speaking anecdotally?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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6/30/2015 10:30:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:29:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:20:36 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
A Religious Experience Shrinks Your Brain.

I've found the reverse too, D-E.

Please tell. I'm referring to a clinical study with MRI scans on the brain (hippocampus). Are you speaking anecdotally?

Oh, I just meant that a brain can shrink your religious experience.
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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6/30/2015 10:36:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:30:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:29:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:20:36 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
A Religious Experience Shrinks Your Brain.

I've found the reverse too, D-E.

Please tell. I'm referring to a clinical study with MRI scans on the brain (hippocampus). Are you speaking anecdotally?

Oh, I just meant that a brain can shrink your religious experience.

I'm not sure what that means. I would assume most people would magnify any religious experience they had. Some may downplay it I suppose. I had something approaching an emotional epiphany a long time ago, but I didn't attach any religious connotations to it.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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6/30/2015 10:45:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, hope springs eternal for some atheists scraping the barrel of illnesses of the theistically persuaded. I'm 71 and have a life full of intellectual and spiritual accomplishment. You critics better hope Alzheimer's strikes as I continue to devastate bad religious or secular ideas of the less intelligent atheists posting here--and yes, you atheists are less intelligent than theists like me who can destroy your atheist "logic" at will without even resorting to religion to do so--atheism is illogical and is easily proven to be so by comparing agnosticism with atheism, one being a true philosophy of inquiry following the Scientific Method and the other a sham ego demonstration using denial of science facts and atheist hearsay to "prove" the atheist argument.

Any time anyone wants to challenge this theist's ability to articulate theistic beliefs and theistic worldview, please try. After all, I've suffered "life changing religious experience" and am tottering on my feet wondering where I am here in the closet looking for my car..
dee-em
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6/30/2015 10:50:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:45:14 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Well, hope springs eternal for some atheists scraping the barrel of illnesses of the theistically persuaded. I'm 71 and have a life full of intellectual and spiritual accomplishment. You critics better hope Alzheimer's strikes as I continue to devastate bad religious or secular ideas of the less intelligent atheists posting here--and yes, you atheists are less intelligent than theists like me who can destroy your atheist "logic" at will without even resorting to religion to do so--atheism is illogical and is easily proven to be so by comparing agnosticism with atheism, one being a true philosophy of inquiry following the Scientific Method and the other a sham ego demonstration using denial of science facts and atheist hearsay to "prove" the atheist argument.

Any time anyone wants to challenge this theist's ability to articulate theistic beliefs and theistic worldview, please try. After all, I've suffered "life changing religious experience" and am tottering on my feet wondering where I am here in the closet looking for my car..

Don't shoot the messenger CTT. I'm just reporting a scientific study. The rambling nature of your posts makes me wonder though.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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6/30/2015 11:00:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:36:50 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:30:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:29:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:20:36 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
A Religious Experience Shrinks Your Brain.

I've found the reverse too, D-E.

Please tell. I'm referring to a clinical study with MRI scans on the brain (hippocampus). Are you speaking anecdotally?

Oh, I just meant that a brain can shrink your religious experience.

I'm not sure what that means.

I was making a wry joke, D-E. :)

I meant that critical thought and a scientific approach to understanding the foibles of subjective human experience can relegate an incident previously interpreted as religious to a more accurate and accountable explanation. :D
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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6/30/2015 11:09:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:17:47 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:52:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Then I should live a long life as far as my hippocampus goes.

It seems that the problem with religious affiliation may relate to stress. If you are in a large community which has similar beliefs and practices, then you feel like you belong and suffer less stress. That may be why the non-religious along with the born-agains and the Catholics in America suffer more atrophy as they age.

The "non-religious", the Catholics, and the born-agains = just about everyone

The real concern is between those with a LCRE and those without. I've obviously never had one, so I feel good about that.

Nor have I. Nor do I expect to.

Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

A non-born again Protestant? Are you equating "born-again" with this so-called "religious experience" (or spiritual experience)?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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6/30/2015 11:11:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:45:14 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Well, hope springs eternal for some atheists scraping the barrel of illnesses of the theistically persuaded. I'm 71 and have a life full of intellectual and spiritual accomplishment.

LOL! 99.4% of your "intellectual and spiritual 'accomplishment' " = came straight from a bong.

That's ok. One time I had dinner with Frank Sinatra at an oyster bar in New Orleans. Unfortunately I was coming off xanax at the time.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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7/1/2015 2:07:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 11:00:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:36:50 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:30:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:29:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:20:36 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
A Religious Experience Shrinks Your Brain.

I've found the reverse too, D-E.

Please tell. I'm referring to a clinical study with MRI scans on the brain (hippocampus). Are you speaking anecdotally?

Oh, I just meant that a brain can shrink your religious experience.

I'm not sure what that means.

I was making a wry joke, D-E. :)

I meant that critical thought and a scientific approach to understanding the foibles of subjective human experience can relegate an incident previously interpreted as religious to a more accurate and accountable explanation. :D

You got me. Too subtle for my humour radar. :-)
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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7/1/2015 2:14:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 11:09:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:17:47 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:52:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Then I should live a long life as far as my hippocampus goes.

It seems that the problem with religious affiliation may relate to stress. If you are in a large community which has similar beliefs and practices, then you feel like you belong and suffer less stress. That may be why the non-religious along with the born-agains and the Catholics in America suffer more atrophy as they age.

The "non-religious", the Catholics, and the born-agains = just about everyone

Not in America, or at least the south-east where this study was conducted. There were 113 out of 268 who were non-born-again Protestants.

The real concern is between those with a LCRE and those without. I've obviously never had one, so I feel good about that.

Nor have I. Nor do I expect to.

Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

A non-born again Protestant? Are you equating "born-again" with this so-called "religious experience" (or spiritual experience)?

Me? I'm not equating anything. Read the report.
mrsatan
Posts: 417
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7/1/2015 4:12:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

As someone who has had a religious experience, that's very disheartening...

Unless... Does seeing a church get struck by lightning count as a religious experience?
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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7/1/2015 5:46:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 4:12:37 AM, mrsatan wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

As someone who has had a religious experience, that's very disheartening...

Unless... Does seeing a church get struck by lightning count as a religious experience?

Lol. You're safe.
dee-em
Posts: 6,443
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7/1/2015 8:31:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 11:00:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:

Off-topic but I've been meaning to ask. You aren't living in a Mr Fluffy house I hope?
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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7/1/2015 4:16:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 11:11:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:45:14 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Well, hope springs eternal for some atheists scraping the barrel of illnesses of the theistically persuaded. I'm 71 and have a life full of intellectual and spiritual accomplishment.

LOL! 99.4% of your "intellectual and spiritual 'accomplishment' " = came straight from a bong.

That's ok. One time I had dinner with Frank Sinatra at an oyster bar in New Orleans. Unfortunately I was coming off xanax at the time.

Anna, you just never quit being the jealous scorned woman. I can't help it if you have no spiritual charisma and have never inspired any group of people as I have, hundreds of them, and very important religious leaders among them, such as the Archbishop of the Holy Land Dioceses who invited me personally to have tea and talk with him about my spiritual visionary accomplishment in Nazareth, you know the one you're putting down as Reefer Madness anti-marijuana dinosaur who belongs in the Old Age while the rest has passed you by. I mean, get real, anna, this is 2015, not the 1930's where your heads buried.

You continue to try to slander me because I am part of my generation that pioneered cannabis use around the world and now it is rapidly becoming the intoxicant of choice for millions of Americans and other nationalities while you, the dinosaur think 1930's are still alive and you can slander a much better intoxicant than the prior one that kills and maims and destroys lives, the one you don't say a word about but criticize the world's most benign intoxicant and promising real live panacea for many illnesses, including spiritual disability of those unable to recognize Spirit contact in others.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/1/2015 4:32:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 4:16:25 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 6/30/2015 11:11:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:45:14 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Well, hope springs eternal for some atheists scraping the barrel of illnesses of the theistically persuaded. I'm 71 and have a life full of intellectual and spiritual accomplishment.

LOL! 99.4% of your "intellectual and spiritual 'accomplishment' " = came straight from a bong.

That's ok. One time I had dinner with Frank Sinatra at an oyster bar in New Orleans. Unfortunately I was coming off xanax at the time.

Anna, you just never quit being the jealous scorned woman. I can't help it if you have no spiritual charisma and have never inspired any group of people as I have, hundreds of them, and very important religious leaders among them, such as the Archbishop of the Holy Land Dioceses who invited me personally to have tea and talk with him about my spiritual visionary accomplishment in Nazareth, you know the one you're putting down as Reefer Madness anti-marijuana dinosaur who belongs in the Old Age while the rest has passed you by. I mean, get real, anna, this is 2015, not the 1930's where your heads buried.

You continue to try to slander me because I am part of my generation that pioneered cannabis use around the world and now it is rapidly becoming the intoxicant of choice for millions of Americans and other nationalities while you, the dinosaur think 1930's are still alive and you can slander a much better intoxicant than the prior one that kills and maims and destroys lives, the one you don't say a word about but criticize the world's most benign intoxicant and promising real live panacea for many illnesses, including spiritual disability of those unable to recognize Spirit contact in others.

I rest my case.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Envisage
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7/1/2015 4:39:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

Crap, guess its time to start drawing up my will.
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 6:09:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

Hmm...very interesting, I must say.

But as much as I would like to steadfastly agree with that study, and would dearly love to be able to add it to my anti-religion Arsenal of Rhetoric, as a Psych guy I have a couple of concerns with it.

I am afraid the writers of this article have made the age-old and not uncommon mistake of, well, mistaking "Causal" with "Corollary" factors.

Yes...the article did claim..................

These associations were not explained by psychosocial or demographic factors, or baseline cerebral volume. Hippocampal volume has been linked to clinical outcomes, such as depression, dementia, and Alzheimer's Disease. The findings of this study indicate that hippocampal atrophy in late life may be uniquely influenced by certain types of religious factors.

BUT: it begs two questions from me:

1--What baseline? I mean to ask: the "baseline" normal hippocampal volume in normal adults of their ages? Or did the testers take a HV measurment BEFORE the subjects' religious experience? (I do not see how they could know to do the latter method. How would they happen to choose all these folks who then afterwards just happened to find Jesus? Or whoever they found? LOL

2--Again, the "corollary" argument. Again: yeah, they claimed the HV shrinkage was "not explained by" psycho-social and environmental factors. But, that does not mean they were not a factor. Perhaps it is simply more likely these folks who had religious experiences also engaged in other activities that could cause HV shrinkage? Like poor diet; drug, alcohol, or tobacco intake? It has been my experience a LOT of recovering substance abusers "find God." Maybe these were some of them.

And as I said in another thread about the poorest people also being the most religious: again, perhaps these were some of them. And we all know that the aforementioned "bad habits" I listed do tend to affect the poor more than the wealthy and more educated. (Who are also less likely to have religious experiences.)
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
dee-em
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7/1/2015 8:02:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 6:09:59 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.


Hmm...very interesting, I must say.

But as much as I would like to steadfastly agree with that study, and would dearly love to be able to add it to my anti-religion Arsenal of Rhetoric, as a Psych guy I have a couple of concerns with it.

I am afraid the writers of this article have made the age-old and not uncommon mistake of, well, mistaking "Causal" with "Corollary" factors.

Yes...the article did claim..................

These associations were not explained by psychosocial or demographic factors, or baseline cerebral volume. Hippocampal volume has been linked to clinical outcomes, such as depression, dementia, and Alzheimer's Disease. The findings of this study indicate that hippocampal atrophy in late life may be uniquely influenced by certain types of religious factors.

BUT: it begs two questions from me:

1--What baseline? I mean to ask: the "baseline" normal hippocampal volume in normal adults of their ages? Or did the testers take a HV measurment BEFORE the subjects' religious experience? (I do not see how they could know to do the latter method. How would they happen to choose all these folks who then afterwards just happened to find Jesus? Or whoever they found? LOL

2--Again, the "corollary" argument. Again: yeah, they claimed the HV shrinkage was "not explained by" psycho-social and environmental factors. But, that does not mean they were not a factor. Perhaps it is simply more likely these folks who had religious experiences also engaged in other activities that could cause HV shrinkage? Like poor diet; drug, alcohol, or tobacco intake? It has been my experience a LOT of recovering substance abusers "find God." Maybe these were some of them.

And as I said in another thread about the poorest people also being the most religious: again, perhaps these were some of them. And we all know that the aforementioned "bad habits" I listed do tend to affect the poor more than the wealthy and more educated. (Who are also less likely to have religious experiences.)

I'm merely reporting on something I happened to read, SoM. Your questions and objections might better be addressed to the authors of the study? I can't speak for them.
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 8:07:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:02:20 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/1/2015 6:09:59 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.


Hmm...very interesting, I must say.

But as much as I would like to steadfastly agree with that study, and would dearly love to be able to add it to my anti-religion Arsenal of Rhetoric, as a Psych guy I have a couple of concerns with it.

I am afraid the writers of this article have made the age-old and not uncommon mistake of, well, mistaking "Causal" with "Corollary" factors.

Yes...the article did claim..................

These associations were not explained by psychosocial or demographic factors, or baseline cerebral volume. Hippocampal volume has been linked to clinical outcomes, such as depression, dementia, and Alzheimer's Disease. The findings of this study indicate that hippocampal atrophy in late life may be uniquely influenced by certain types of religious factors.

BUT: it begs two questions from me:

1--What baseline? I mean to ask: the "baseline" normal hippocampal volume in normal adults of their ages? Or did the testers take a HV measurment BEFORE the subjects' religious experience? (I do not see how they could know to do the latter method. How would they happen to choose all these folks who then afterwards just happened to find Jesus? Or whoever they found? LOL

2--Again, the "corollary" argument. Again: yeah, they claimed the HV shrinkage was "not explained by" psycho-social and environmental factors. But, that does not mean they were not a factor. Perhaps it is simply more likely these folks who had religious experiences also engaged in other activities that could cause HV shrinkage? Like poor diet; drug, alcohol, or tobacco intake? It has been my experience a LOT of recovering substance abusers "find God." Maybe these were some of them.

And as I said in another thread about the poorest people also being the most religious: again, perhaps these were some of them. And we all know that the aforementioned "bad habits" I listed do tend to affect the poor more than the wealthy and more educated. (Who are also less likely to have religious experiences.)

I'm merely reporting on something I happened to read, SoM. Your questions and objections might better be addressed to the authors of the study? I can't speak for them.

Would if I could, amigo. Would if I could!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Mhykiel
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7/1/2015 9:39:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

I don't see where that is written.

"Greater hippocampal atrophy over time was predicted by baseline identification as born-again Protestants, Catholics, or no religious affiliation, compared with Protestants who were not born-again."

So Atheist get atrophied hippocampus compared with Protestants who were not born-again.

I'm not really sure what born-again meant in the study.
Mhykiel
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7/1/2015 9:42:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

here in plain English.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...
dee-em
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7/1/2015 10:08:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 9:39:25 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

I don't see where that is written.

"Greater hippocampal atrophy over time was predicted by baseline identification as born-again Protestants, Catholics, or no religious affiliation, compared with Protestants who were not born-again."

Isn't that pretty much what I said? That is one classification (religious affiliation). A separate classification they used (independent of religious affiliation) was LCRE versus non-LCRE.

So Atheist get atrophied hippocampus compared with Protestants who were not born-again.

Yep. As I said.

I'm not really sure what born-again meant in the study.

I equate it with evangelicals, but I may be wrong.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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7/1/2015 11:58:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:07:04 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:02:20 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 7/1/2015 6:09:59 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.


Hmm...very interesting, I must say.

But as much as I would like to steadfastly agree with that study, and would dearly love to be able to add it to my anti-religion Arsenal of Rhetoric, as a Psych guy I have a couple of concerns with it.

I am afraid the writers of this article have made the age-old and not uncommon mistake of, well, mistaking "Causal" with "Corollary" factors.

Yes...the article did claim..................

These associations were not explained by psychosocial or demographic factors, or baseline cerebral volume. Hippocampal volume has been linked to clinical outcomes, such as depression, dementia, and Alzheimer's Disease. The findings of this study indicate that hippocampal atrophy in late life may be uniquely influenced by certain types of religious factors.

BUT: it begs two questions from me:

1--What baseline? I mean to ask: the "baseline" normal hippocampal volume in normal adults of their ages? Or did the testers take a HV measurment BEFORE the subjects' religious experience? (I do not see how they could know to do the latter method. How would they happen to choose all these folks who then afterwards just happened to find Jesus? Or whoever they found? LOL

2--Again, the "corollary" argument. Again: yeah, they claimed the HV shrinkage was "not explained by" psycho-social and environmental factors. But, that does not mean they were not a factor. Perhaps it is simply more likely these folks who had religious experiences also engaged in other activities that could cause HV shrinkage? Like poor diet; drug, alcohol, or tobacco intake? It has been my experience a LOT of recovering substance abusers "find God." Maybe these were some of them.

And as I said in another thread about the poorest people also being the most religious: again, perhaps these were some of them. And we all know that the aforementioned "bad habits" I listed do tend to affect the poor more than the wealthy and more educated. (Who are also less likely to have religious experiences.)

I'm merely reporting on something I happened to read, SoM. Your questions and objections might better be addressed to the authors of the study? I can't speak for them.

Would if I could, amigo. Would if I could!

Why can't you? There should be a corresponding author.
Serato
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7/6/2015 7:39:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

Do you think the findings here could be found in an authentic scientific journal? or is posting a fictitious publication masquerading its obvious trash as a newly found fact something of no concern to you?
dee-em
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7/6/2015 7:48:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 7:39:34 AM, Serato wrote:
At 6/30/2015 8:23:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

http://journals.plos.org...

Participants who said they had undergone a religious experience were found to have more atrophy than those who did not.

Although the brain tends to shrink with age, atrophy in the hippocampus has been linked with depression and Alzheimer's disease.


Whilst the non-religious do not get off scot free (you seem to be better off being a non-born-again Protestant), if you have had a life-changing religious experience (LCRE), you may have cause for worry later in life.

Do you think the findings here could be found in an authentic scientific journal? or is posting a fictitious publication masquerading its obvious trash as a newly found fact something of no concern to you?

Do you have some evidence for your assertions? If this is a fake site, I apologise but I obtained the link from a newspaper story and the publication seems reputable with peer review:

http://www.plosone.org...
dee-em
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7/6/2015 7:53:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Wikipedia entry does not consider it to be shonky:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

In September 2009, PLOS ONE received the Publishing Innovation Award of the Association for Learned and Professional Society Publishers.[28] The award is given in recognition of a "truly innovative approach to any aspect of publication as adjudged from originality and innovative qualities, together with utility, benefit to the community and long-term prospects".