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What if Satan Was Right?

Saint_of_Me
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6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.

And let us believe now, that the traditional christian dogma of how SATAN was tossed out of Heaven by god was true. That SATAN..the Usurper, The Deceiver (And let us not forget: The Giver of Light); was booted from Heaven for questioning god. For trying to thwart his authority.

OK..now. Let me ask you this........

Suppose SATAN was on our side the whole time? Yes. That He was actually advocating for Mankind? For us not to be punished with Original Sin? For us not to endure The Fall?

And that it was He---SATAN, that actually gave us Free Will? And not god? That this was ONE power SATAN gave us before He was 86'd that god could not erase. Because, judging from the blood-soaked Old Testament, it certainly seems as if Yahweh was a homicidal Control Freak. Look at the sort of thing he did to even his most devout? Like poor Job.

Where in the OT is any mention of SATAN committing ethnic cleansing; genocide; mass murder; and infanticide (see: The Passover) as did Yahweh.

So perhaps SATAN was ALWAYS--as He claimed in the great movie "The Devil's Advocate: "A Fan of Man?" Down here in the trenches with us? And not saying things like "Look but don't touch! Smell but do not eat!"

Where in the OT did SATAN ever demand blind worship?

Alas, Nowhere.

I submit that the early church fathers--in following their power-hungry agendas. turned the tables on the True Story: and that is, that SATAN was Advocating for Us.

And He is our True and Most Misunderstood Friend.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions on this conjecture.

Thanks!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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6/30/2015 9:30:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What if this was actually the way It All Went Down?

That SATAN is your true BFF?

II find a LOT of Food for Thought in this Speech........

https://www.youtube.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
RuvDraba
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6/30/2015 10:00:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
An interesting thought, Drew.

It seems to me that much of the history of monotheism can be characterised as the history of fighting for paternalistic control of heresy and intellectual dissent. This can be seen as early as Zoroastrianism (perhaps the first monotheistic faith); it appears explicitly in the Tanakh; it remains a chief concern of Papal encyclicals from the Roman Catholic church, and modern evangelicals are trying to swing a paternalistic leg over empiricism and evidentiary reasoning.

And I sometimes wonder whether, if monotheists can't control somebody else, they lose any sense of purpose -- if they abandoned their claims to paternalistic authority over others, might they not be happier as Deists, secular humanists or amiable polytheists like most Hindus?

But in any case, paternalistic tyranny frequently finds expression in metaphysical dualism: Christians have Satan; Muslims have Shaitan; the Zoroastrians have it in Angra Mainyu. It takes real effort to keep monotheism from becoming dualistic, and even Judaism (perhaps the most resiliently antidualistic monotheistic faith), has toyed with it in some sects.

But the modern world has taken some turns that bode poorly for dualistic monotheism. For one thing, dualism almost demands a single nationalistic identity, splitting Us (children of God) from Them (servants of the Other.) But we now understand some of the worst abuses humans ever perpetrate on one another are committed under this rubric.

For another, since the Enlightenment we've come to see that individualism is either helpful or essential for a compassionate, intelligent society. We need dissent -- it's where some of our greatest innovation arises. Without a Prometheus, we'd never have light. And dualism loathes dissent.

So emblematically at least, Satan makes a nice patron for modern thought. If we were to look at early US history, for example, it's clear that Britain thought itself paternalistically in control (i.e. with all the assumed divine right of rule), while the colony of America in its pride, dissented. So the colonies get the symbolic role of Satan against the Godlike role of the parent empire -- and nowadays we celebrate that as a victory for democracy and modern thought.

And the whole Eden and apple thing. As an empiricist I'd ask what's wrong with eating an apple from curiosity? And ethically, any supposedly intelligent being putting forbidden fruit in the middle of a garden of ignorant kids should have a wisdom check-up. My sympathies are with the serpent.

So, not that I believe in metaphysical beings -- especially not any with interest in humans, but anthropologically at least: go Satan!
Serato
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7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.


There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims that actually eviscerated themselves based on conflicting logic alone. Instead of expounding on my personal experiences of witnessing the overwhelming radiance of unconditional love seeping with the tidal force of a tsunami that is the Holy Spirit, and measuring this against my encounters of the childish ego of the Satan that only plays games to no memorable impact, instead of all this and much more, I'll simply use your own recorded lies to prove what's what. Are you ready for this?
JJ50
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7/1/2015 8:27:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.


There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims that actually eviscerated themselves based on conflicting logic alone. Instead of expounding on my personal experiences of witnessing the overwhelming radiance of unconditional love seeping with the tidal force of a tsunami that is the Holy Spirit, and measuring this against my encounters of the childish ego of the Satan that only plays games to no memorable impact, instead of all this and much more, I'll simply use your own recorded lies to prove what's what. Are you ready for this?

And your daft claims aren't ridiculous?
Serato
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7/1/2015 8:59:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:27:10 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.


There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims that actually eviscerated themselves based on conflicting logic alone. Instead of expounding on my personal experiences of witnessing the overwhelming radiance of unconditional love seeping with the tidal force of a tsunami that is the Holy Spirit, and measuring this against my encounters of the childish ego of the Satan that only plays games to no memorable impact, instead of all this and much more, I'll simply use your own recorded lies to prove what's what. Are you ready for this?

And your daft claims aren't ridiculous?

Yes I suppose to anyone lacking the personal encounters that I've had would be justified in seeing little to zero credibility to my claims, and perhaps slam the gavel with insanity. So let's compare only his philosophy to my philosophy alone. Saint_of_Me has on record statements that condone the eradication of Christians and exhibitions of selfish qualities are continuously manifesting through his posts. His contradictions alone are telling of an active agenda of disinformation. The better portion of his created threads seek to convince people that God never existed, yet now he'd like you to see God as the evil humanitarian bully. On and on I've yet to make a dent in his disingenuous behaviors being cultivated no doubt by the selfish Satanist mindset, therein producing the Saint_of_Me egotistical personality.
Serato
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7/1/2015 9:37:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The power of positive vibrations teetering to the emotional side of love is alone in its right enough to prove the inequalities between the Satanists and the Christians. In my apartment complex there resides an unbalanced mixture of both. The majority are the masonic luciferian satanists, all to which have this visibly darkened auroric field of negative energies about them, and with the untainted christians you'll see the complete opposite of the lobotomized eyes of these others. The Christian girls a few doors down from me are literally brimming with resplendent halos and resound with each patter of each footstep as though trumpets rejoice with each stride taken so gracely. And how they manage to conceal their angel wings from sight is an amazing feat in itself. I should take with their permission their pictures so you may see the difference.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Serato
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7/1/2015 10:36:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?

This is a request best reserved for Saint_of_Me. He needs to first stop floundering with all the finesse of a trout caught out of the water. Let him take a position that isn't pliant enough to first say God doesn't exist, then claim God exists but is evil while further compounding absurdities that Satan rules the world but everything bad is the workings of God. He needs to explain his professing recommendations that everyone switch to the "winning side" while quibbling his way around the recorded adducent nonsense that once attempted feebly to convince me that Satan was merely symbolic, rather than real. So you tell me what we should discuss. I'll come back this evening for a response.
DanneJeRusse
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7/1/2015 10:38:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 10:36:47 AM, Serato wrote:
At 7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?

This is a request best reserved for Saint_of_Me. He needs to first stop floundering with all the finesse of a trout caught out of the water. Let him take a position that isn't pliant enough to first say God doesn't exist, then claim God exists but is evil while further compounding absurdities that Satan rules the world but everything bad is the workings of God. He needs to explain his professing recommendations that everyone switch to the "winning side" while quibbling his way around the recorded adducent nonsense that once attempted feebly to convince me that Satan was merely symbolic, rather than real. So you tell me what we should discuss. I'll come back this evening for a response.

So, you can't even name one?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/1/2015 11:50:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 10:38:28 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 10:36:47 AM, Serato wrote:
At 7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?

This is a request best reserved for Saint_of_Me. He needs to first stop floundering with all the finesse of a trout caught out of the water. Let him take a position that isn't pliant enough to first say God doesn't exist, then claim God exists but is evil while further compounding absurdities that Satan rules the world but everything bad is the workings of God. He needs to explain his professing recommendations that everyone switch to the "winning side" while quibbling his way around the recorded adducent nonsense that once attempted feebly to convince me that Satan was merely symbolic, rather than real. So you tell me what we should discuss. I'll come back this evening for a response.

So, you can't even name one?

Maybe someday whey you grow up, and stop spending so much time concocting your endless stream of comical metaphors and similes, you will be able to read my posts just a little bit better, and see that in this one, as well as in ALL my posts regarding SATAN--like the "winning side" one you referenced, you will see that I clearly stated at the outset they were Hypothetical.

Look that word up if you need to. Or ask me and I will explain.

In fact, in this very thread, I stated that at the beginning: asking us free-from-Superstition Atheists and Agnostics to suspend our dies-beliefs for the sake of replying.

But apparently, for guys like you, a primary and very clear opening statement is not quite enough.

Is that what bible school does to you?

LOL
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/1/2015 11:57:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:00:07 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
An interesting thought, Drew.

It seems to me that much of the history of monotheism can be characterised as the history of fighting for paternalistic control of heresy and intellectual dissent. This can be seen as early as Zoroastrianism (perhaps the first monotheistic faith); it appears explicitly in the Tanakh; it remains a chief concern of Papal encyclicals from the Roman Catholic church, and modern evangelicals are trying to swing a paternalistic leg over empiricism and evidentiary reasoning.

And I sometimes wonder whether, if monotheists can't control somebody else, they lose any sense of purpose -- if they abandoned their claims to paternalistic authority over others, might they not be happier as Deists, secular humanists or amiable polytheists like most Hindus?

But in any case, paternalistic tyranny frequently finds expression in metaphysical dualism: Christians have Satan; Muslims have Shaitan; the Zoroastrians have it in Angra Mainyu. It takes real effort to keep monotheism from becoming dualistic, and even Judaism (perhaps the most resiliently antidualistic monotheistic faith), has toyed with it in some sects.

But the modern world has taken some turns that bode poorly for dualistic monotheism. For one thing, dualism almost demands a single nationalistic identity, splitting Us (children of God) from Them (servants of the Other.) But we now understand some of the worst abuses humans ever perpetrate on one another are committed under this rubric.

For another, since the Enlightenment we've come to see that individualism is either helpful or essential for a compassionate, intelligent society. We need dissent -- it's where some of our greatest innovation arises. Without a Prometheus, we'd never have light. And dualism loathes dissent.

So emblematically at least, Satan makes a nice patron for modern thought. If we were to look at early US history, for example, it's clear that Britain thought itself paternalistically in control (i.e. with all the assumed divine right of rule), while the colony of America in its pride, dissented. So the colonies get the symbolic role of Satan against the Godlike role of the parent empire -- and nowadays we celebrate that as a victory for democracy and modern thought.

And the whole Eden and apple thing. As an empiricist I'd ask what's wrong with eating an apple from curiosity? And ethically, any supposedly intelligent being putting forbidden fruit in the middle of a garden of ignorant kids should have a wisdom check-up. My sympathies are with the serpent.

So, not that I believe in metaphysical beings -- especially not any with interest in humans, but anthropologically at least: go Satan!

Wow..good post. Again.

You make an interesting point. god does seem to "tease" an awful lot. Like with the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil--smack dab in the middle of the Garden of Eden.
Why would he do this? Seems like pure taunting to me. Would a real, human, loving father taunt his children like that? Say, put a table full of candy in the middle of their bedroom among all their other toys and tell them "hands off, muchachos!" and then when they DID have a taste, disown them and throw them outside and lock the front door?

LOL--I would think not.

Yeah...the more I think of it--SATAN was the (IS the?) "Fan of Man" that John Milton ranted about in the movie The Devil's Advocate. His line about god "sitting up there laughing his sick, phukking asss off!" sound especially accurate and intriguing.

Indeed...............GO SATAN!!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 11:58:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?

Yeah! What he said! LOL.

Name one! Me and Lucy (my nickname for my BFF) will knock it right back down in short order. LOL
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/1/2015 11:58:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:27:10 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.


There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims that actually eviscerated themselves based on conflicting logic alone. Instead of expounding on my personal experiences of witnessing the overwhelming radiance of unconditional love seeping with the tidal force of a tsunami that is the Holy Spirit, and measuring this against my encounters of the childish ego of the Satan that only plays games to no memorable impact, instead of all this and much more, I'll simply use your own recorded lies to prove what's what. Are you ready for this?

And your daft claims aren't ridiculous?

Ya think? Serato has become something of a standing joke around here with that type of stuff.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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7/1/2015 11:59:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 11:50:47 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/1/2015 10:38:28 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 10:36:47 AM, Serato wrote:
At 7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?

This is a request best reserved for Saint_of_Me. He needs to first stop floundering with all the finesse of a trout caught out of the water. Let him take a position that isn't pliant enough to first say God doesn't exist, then claim God exists but is evil while further compounding absurdities that Satan rules the world but everything bad is the workings of God. He needs to explain his professing recommendations that everyone switch to the "winning side" while quibbling his way around the recorded adducent nonsense that once attempted feebly to convince me that Satan was merely symbolic, rather than real. So you tell me what we should discuss. I'll come back this evening for a response.

So, you can't even name one?

Maybe someday whey you grow up, and stop spending so much time concocting your endless stream of comical metaphors and similes, you will be able to read my posts just a little bit better, and see that in this one, as well as in ALL my posts regarding SATAN--like the "winning side" one you referenced, you will see that I clearly stated at the outset they were Hypothetical.

Look that word up if you need to. Or ask me and I will explain.

In fact, in this very thread, I stated that at the beginning: asking us free-from-Superstition Atheists and Agnostics to suspend our dies-beliefs for the sake of replying.

But apparently, for guys like you, a primary and very clear opening statement is not quite enough.

Is that what bible school does to you?

LOL

That's odd, I was supporting your OP. Bible school? Wtf are you talking about?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 12:11:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Another example from recent revisionist writing in the arena of christian theology that has given me pause about the original Hebrew dogma of how god is the Holy one and Satan was the bad guy--the Usurper--who was 86'd from the Pearly Gates.

The whole "Judas Iscariot" findings. Karen Armstrong and Elaine Pagels and several other fine Theological writers have postulated that, far from being JC's betrayer and enemy, Judas Iscariot was actually his buddy! And confidant. Oh yes. And he actually, at JC's bequest, assisted him in carrying-out his whole plan. That is, the machinations that lead to his passion and crucifixion.

So...say that Iscariot WAS JC's BFF and thus has been egregiously misunderstood and unfairly lambasted in christian dogma all this time. (And indeed, mounting evidence alludes to this fact). Then.......who is to say that the whole SATAN thing is not merely another example? Of christian dogma skewing the REAL facts so as to further their oppressive agenda of control?

Again...it is looking more and more like SATAN was only dismissed from Heaven for standing-up for us. And in alluding to an earlier post--maybe SATAN was even admonishing god for putting that Tree in the middle of the Garden in the first place.

Yeah! If "the serpent" was SATAN--or even one of His minions--maybe it was only trying to "warn" Eve. Warning her of the evil Yahweh's capricious agenda.

Here is a link on some of that Judas Iscariot stuff I mentioned..........

http://www.religioustolerance.org...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 12:12:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 11:59:00 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 11:50:47 AM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/1/2015 10:38:28 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 10:36:47 AM, Serato wrote:
At 7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?

This is a request best reserved for Saint_of_Me. He needs to first stop floundering with all the finesse of a trout caught out of the water. Let him take a position that isn't pliant enough to first say God doesn't exist, then claim God exists but is evil while further compounding absurdities that Satan rules the world but everything bad is the workings of God. He needs to explain his professing recommendations that everyone switch to the "winning side" while quibbling his way around the recorded adducent nonsense that once attempted feebly to convince me that Satan was merely symbolic, rather than real. So you tell me what we should discuss. I'll come back this evening for a response.

So, you can't even name one?


In fact, in this very thread, I stated that at the beginning: asking us free-from-Superstition Atheists and Agnostics to suspend our dies-beliefs for the sake of replying.

But apparently, for guys like you, a primary and very clear opening statement is not quite enough.

Is that what bible school does to you?

LOL

That's odd, I was supporting your OP. Bible school? Wtf are you talking about?

Aw..Jeez...I'm sorry. That response was for Serato. My bad.

I am gonna paste it on his post.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 12:14:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?

Yeah. What he said! Name one!

And when you do so me and my buddy ol' Lucy (my nickname for Lucifer) will knock it right back down in short order. LOL
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
dsjpk5
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7/1/2015 12:16:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.

And let us believe now, that the traditional christian dogma of how SATAN was tossed out of Heaven by god was true. That SATAN..the Usurper, The Deceiver (And let us not forget: The Giver of Light); was booted from Heaven for questioning god. For trying to thwart his authority.

OK..now. Let me ask you this........

Suppose SATAN was on our side the whole time? Yes. That He was actually advocating for Mankind? For us not to be punished with Original Sin? For us not to endure The Fall?

And that it was He---SATAN, that actually gave us Free Will? And not god? That this was ONE power SATAN gave us before He was 86'd that god could not erase. Because, judging from the blood-soaked Old Testament, it certainly seems as if Yahweh was a homicidal Control Freak. Look at the sort of thing he did to even his most devout? Like poor Job.

Where in the OT is any mention of SATAN committing ethnic cleansing; genocide; mass murder; and infanticide (see: The Passover) as did Yahweh.

So perhaps SATAN was ALWAYS--as He claimed in the great movie "The Devil's Advocate: "A Fan of Man?" Down here in the trenches with us? And not saying things like "Look but don't touch! Smell but do not eat!"

Where in the OT did SATAN ever demand blind worship?

Alas, Nowhere.

I submit that the early church fathers--in following their power-hungry agendas. turned the tables on the True Story: and that is, that SATAN was Advocating for Us.

And He is our True and Most Misunderstood Friend.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions on this conjecture.

Thanks!

There is no evidence of any such thing.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 12:20:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 12:16:11 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.

And let us believe now, that the traditional christian dogma of how SATAN was tossed out of Heaven by god was true. That SATAN..the Usurper, The Deceiver (And let us not forget: The Giver of Light); was booted from Heaven for questioning god. For trying to thwart his authority.

OK..now. Let me ask you this........

Suppose SATAN was on our side the whole time? Yes. That He was actually advocating for Mankind? For us not to be punished with Original Sin? For us not to endure The Fall?

And that it was He---SATAN, that actually gave us Free Will? And not god? That this was ONE power SATAN gave us before He was 86'd that god could not erase. Because, judging from the blood-soaked Old Testament, it certainly seems as if Yahweh was a homicidal Control Freak. Look at the sort of thing he did to even his most devout? Like poor Job.

Where in the OT is any mention of SATAN committing ethnic cleansing; genocide; mass murder; and infanticide (see: The Passover) as did Yahweh.

So perhaps SATAN was ALWAYS--as He claimed in the great movie "The Devil's Advocate: "A Fan of Man?" Down here in the trenches with us? And not saying things like "Look but don't touch! Smell but do not eat!"

Where in the OT did SATAN ever demand blind worship?

Alas, Nowhere.

I submit that the early church fathers--in following their power-hungry agendas. turned the tables on the True Story: and that is, that SATAN was Advocating for Us.

And He is our True and Most Misunderstood Friend.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions on this conjecture.

Thanks!


There is no evidence of any such thing.

Of course, not. At least not in the bible or the writings of the early church fathers. Why would they admit such a thing? They have their own agendas to formulate.

But you must know that over the past several decades there has been mountains of revisionist material written by various professional biblical scholars that have refuted many of the early claims and writings of the church. The bible itself is filled with enough errors and inconsistencies and contradictions to fill a library. (let me know if you need any links for that).
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 12:48:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 10:36:47 AM, Serato wrote:
At 7/1/2015 9:40:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:

There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims ...

Name one?

This is a request best reserved for Saint_of_Me. He needs to first stop floundering with all the finesse of a trout caught out of the water. Let him take a position that isn't pliant enough to first say God doesn't exist, then claim God exists but is evil while further compounding absurdities that Satan rules the world but everything bad is the workings of God. He needs to explain his professing recommendations that everyone switch to the "winning side" while quibbling his way around the recorded adducent nonsense that once attempted feebly to convince me that Satan was merely symbolic, rather than real. So you tell me what we should discuss. I'll come back this evening for a response.

Maybe someday whey you grow up, and stop spending so much time concocting your endless stream of comical metaphors and similes, you will be able to read my posts just a little bit better, and see that in this one, as well as in ALL my posts regarding SATAN--like the "winning side" one you referenced, you will see that I clearly stated at the outset they were Hypothetical.

Look that word up if you need to. Or ask me and I will explain. (I can even provide a link! LOL)

In fact, in this very thread, I stated that at the outset--the FIRST sentence! Asking us free-from-Superstition Atheists and Agnostics to suspend our disbeliefs for the sake of replying.

But apparently, for guys like you, a primary and very clear opening statement is not quite enough. You're hopeless.
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dsjpk5
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7/1/2015 12:48:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 12:20:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/1/2015 12:16:11 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.

And let us believe now, that the traditional christian dogma of how SATAN was tossed out of Heaven by god was true. That SATAN..the Usurper, The Deceiver (And let us not forget: The Giver of Light); was booted from Heaven for questioning god. For trying to thwart his authority.

OK..now. Let me ask you this........

Suppose SATAN was on our side the whole time? Yes. That He was actually advocating for Mankind? For us not to be punished with Original Sin? For us not to endure The Fall?

And that it was He---SATAN, that actually gave us Free Will? And not god? That this was ONE power SATAN gave us before He was 86'd that god could not erase. Because, judging from the blood-soaked Old Testament, it certainly seems as if Yahweh was a homicidal Control Freak. Look at the sort of thing he did to even his most devout? Like poor Job.

Where in the OT is any mention of SATAN committing ethnic cleansing; genocide; mass murder; and infanticide (see: The Passover) as did Yahweh.

So perhaps SATAN was ALWAYS--as He claimed in the great movie "The Devil's Advocate: "A Fan of Man?" Down here in the trenches with us? And not saying things like "Look but don't touch! Smell but do not eat!"

Where in the OT did SATAN ever demand blind worship?

Alas, Nowhere.

I submit that the early church fathers--in following their power-hungry agendas. turned the tables on the True Story: and that is, that SATAN was Advocating for Us.

And He is our True and Most Misunderstood Friend.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions on this conjecture.

Thanks!


There is no evidence of any such thing.


Of course, not. At least not in the bible or the writings of the early church fathers. Why would they admit such a thing? They have their own agendas to formulate.

But you must know that over the past several decades there has been mountains of revisionist material written by various professional biblical scholars that have refuted many of the early claims and writings of the church. The bible itself is filled with enough errors and inconsistencies and contradictions to fill a library. (let me know if you need any links for that).

I might accept it if you had any evidence whatsoever. And the Bible is the most misinterpreted book. It's not in theological error
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 12:52:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.


There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims that actually eviscerated themselves based on conflicting logic alone. Instead of expounding on my personal experiences of witnessing the overwhelming radiance of unconditional love seeping with the tidal force of a tsunami that is the Holy Spirit, and measuring this against my encounters of the childish ego of the Satan that only plays games to no memorable impact, instead of all this and much more, I'll simply use your own recorded lies to prove what's what. Are you ready for this?

"Childish?"

Well, you would know. That short-lived thread you did on me looked as if it were composed by an angry 10-year-old sent to bed with no dinner for getting caught spanking the monkey to a copy of Playgirl. (Have ya, been there, done that?) LOL.

It is a shame, though, it was erased. Because I always agreed with that old adage from PT Barnum......"There is no such thing as 'bad' Publicity."

Ahh..you christians are sooo damn easy to rile up. I will have you foaming at the mouth in no time. (Or my boy SATAN will!) LOL
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Lee001
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7/1/2015 12:54:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Nobody will ever know for a fact is Satan or God is/ was real.
"Condoms are societal constructs created by the government to restrain 'Murican freedom!"-SolonKR

"But I jest and digress (sick rhymes, yo); every boob is equal in the eyes of the Lord."- SolonKR

"Oh Hey, Seeing Artichokes Makes Me Want to Have Sex."- SolonKR

"Yep, but anyone who touches my hair immediately ascends to the heavens..You're already an angel, so touching my hair can do nothing <3" -SolonKR

My hubby Hayd <3 <3
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 12:54:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 12:48:56 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 7/1/2015 12:20:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/1/2015 12:16:11 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.

And let us believe now, that the traditional christian dogma of how SATAN was tossed out of Heaven by god was true. That SATAN..the Usurper, The Deceiver (And let us not forget: The Giver of Light); was booted from Heaven for questioning god. For trying to thwart his authority.

OK..now. Let me ask you this........

Suppose SATAN was on our side the whole time? Yes. That He was actually advocating for Mankind? For us not to be punished with Original Sin? For us not to endure The Fall?

And that it was He---SATAN, that actually gave us Free Will? And not god? That this was ONE power SATAN gave us before He was 86'd that god could not erase. Because, judging from the blood-soaked Old Testament, it certainly seems as if Yahweh was a homicidal Control Freak. Look at the sort of thing he did to even his most devout? Like poor Job.

Where in the OT is any mention of SATAN committing ethnic cleansing; genocide; mass murder; and infanticide (see: The Passover) as did Yahweh.

So perhaps SATAN was ALWAYS--as He claimed in the great movie "The Devil's Advocate: "A Fan of Man?" Down here in the trenches with us? And not saying things like "Look but don't touch! Smell but do not eat!"

Where in the OT did SATAN ever demand blind worship?

Alas, Nowhere.

I submit that the early church fathers--in following their power-hungry agendas. turned the tables on the True Story: and that is, that SATAN was Advocating for Us.

And He is our True and Most Misunderstood Friend.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions on this conjecture.

Thanks!


There is no evidence of any such thing.


Of course, not. At least not in the bible or the writings of the early church fathers. Why would they admit such a thing? They have their own agendas to formulate.

But you must know that over the past several decades there has been mountains of revisionist material written by various professional biblical scholars that have refuted many of the early claims and writings of the church. The bible itself is filled with enough errors and inconsistencies and contradictions to fill a library. (let me know if you need any links for that).

I might accept it if you had any evidence whatsoever. And the Bible is the most misinterpreted book. It's not in theological error

Are you claiming there are no written contradictions in the bible? No contrasting and self-cancelling statements or claims? Pleeeasse say "yes." LOL. Because I can show you enough to choke a hog.
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thett3
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7/1/2015 12:54:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think you would enjoy this debate: http://www.debate.org...
DDO Vice President

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#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 1:06:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 7:59:25 AM, Serato wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.


There are a million ways one could defeat any and all your ridiculous claims that actually eviscerated themselves based on conflicting logic alone. Instead of expounding on my personal experiences of witnessing the overwhelming radiance of unconditional love seeping with the tidal force of a tsunami that is the Holy Spirit, and measuring this against my encounters of the childish ego of the Satan that only plays games to no memorable impact, instead of all this and much more, I'll simply use your own recorded lies to prove what's what. Are you ready for this?

Miss Serato: You can't even bring ONE on me and my buddy Lucy.

Meanwhile....try and refute this.............

Look...It doesn't take a mathematician to add up and compare god and Satan's respective body counts. God has, after all, killed billions of people in a great flood.

Satan never did anything like that. What was the only thing Satan did "wrong"? He rebelled against God, but wouldn't you? Look at what kind of a God he is! He needlessly murders people in nearly every book and passage of the Old Testament!

He created an entire race of people for the sole purpose of catering to his own ego, and then gets mad when we don't live up to our appointed role in life or question one of his decisions! He is a ruthless, dictatorial, narcissistic, sociopathic mass murderer.

If I go to Hell for not worshipping him, so much the better. I'd rather spend eternity with Satan, someone who hasn't treated the human race like disposable garbage, someone who has given knowledge to humanity rather than trying to suppress it.

It's time to stop this needless slandering of Satan's name. Satan has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't killed anyone, publicly exonerated slavery, demanded our worship or threatened us with eternal damnation for not doing his bidding.

It is god who is guilty of all these crimes. Satan's done nothing but rebel against a repugnantly unjust authority figure, and he gets eternal damnation and association and blame for all evil on Earth! Meanwhile, Martin Luther King, Jr. gets a holiday named after him, and Satan was far more courageous that King was. After all, Satan stood up to an all powerful narcissist who made it clear that he never would change his mind on any issue. King at least had a democracy to work with.

The Christian Smear Campaign toward Satan is completely unwarranted. Maybe, before criticizing Satan, they should look at the God they worship. Is Satan really a bad guy? Certainly not in comparison to God. In fact, I'd much rather have Satan running things.

He just can't be worse than god.
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Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 1:09:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Can even the most devout christian and SATAN hater refute anything in the following?

"Look...It doesn't take a mathematician to add up and compare god and Satan's respective body counts. God has, after all, killed billions of people in a great flood.

Satan never did anything like that. What was the only thing Satan did "wrong"? He rebelled against God, but wouldn't you? Look at what kind of a God he is! He needlessly murders people in nearly every book and passage of the Old Testament!

He created an entire race of people for the sole purpose of catering to his own ego, and then gets mad when we don't live up to our appointed role in life or question one of his decisions! He is a ruthless, dictatorial, narcissistic, sociopathic mass murderer.

If I go to Hell for not worshipping him, so much the better. I'd rather spend eternity with Satan, someone who hasn't treated the human race like disposable garbage, someone who has given knowledge to humanity rather than trying to suppress it.

It's time to stop this needless slandering of Satan's name. Satan has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't killed anyone, publicly exonerated slavery, demanded our worship or threatened us with eternal damnation for not doing his bidding.

It is god who is guilty of all these crimes. Satan's done nothing but rebel against a repugnantly unjust authority figure, and he gets eternal damnation and association and blame for all evil on Earth! Meanwhile, Martin Luther King, Jr. gets a holiday named after him, and Satan was far more courageous that King was. After all, Satan stood up to an all powerful narcissist who made it clear that he never would change his mind on any issue. King at least had a democracy to work with.

The Christian Smear Campaign toward Satan is completely unwarranted. Maybe, before criticizing Satan, they should look at the God they worship. Is Satan really a bad guy? Certainly not in comparison to God. In fact, I'd much rather have Satan running things.

He just can't be worse than god."

Let's go, guys. I welcome any refutations of the preceding post.

Thanks!
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Saint_of_Me
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7/1/2015 1:14:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 12:54:40 PM, thett3 wrote:
I think you would enjoy this debate: http://www.debate.org...

Yeah...Pinkie did a good job on that. I am glad he won. But his opponent was pretty lame. Even I could have done a job than he did in defending yahweh.

(Yikes...what a terrible thought.)

I just thought of something interesting: If I--an Atheist and Satan Fan--were to play Devil's Advocate in a debate and defend god against Satan....well, how does that work? LOL. Playing Devil's Advocate, yet opposing the Devil?

Ouch..makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

Thanks!
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dsjpk5
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7/1/2015 1:41:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 12:54:29 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/1/2015 12:48:56 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 7/1/2015 12:20:57 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/1/2015 12:16:11 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 6/30/2015 9:22:53 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Consider for a moment...you fellow Atheists and Agnostics, that both god and SATAN actually exist. Just follow along, for a moment so I can humbly submit my idea.

And let us believe now, that the traditional christian dogma of how SATAN was tossed out of Heaven by god was true. That SATAN..the Usurper, The Deceiver (And let us not forget: The Giver of Light); was booted from Heaven for questioning god. For trying to thwart his authority.

OK..now. Let me ask you this........

Suppose SATAN was on our side the whole time? Yes. That He was actually advocating for Mankind? For us not to be punished with Original Sin? For us not to endure The Fall?

And that it was He---SATAN, that actually gave us Free Will? And not god? That this was ONE power SATAN gave us before He was 86'd that god could not erase. Because, judging from the blood-soaked Old Testament, it certainly seems as if Yahweh was a homicidal Control Freak. Look at the sort of thing he did to even his most devout? Like poor Job.

Where in the OT is any mention of SATAN committing ethnic cleansing; genocide; mass murder; and infanticide (see: The Passover) as did Yahweh.

So perhaps SATAN was ALWAYS--as He claimed in the great movie "The Devil's Advocate: "A Fan of Man?" Down here in the trenches with us? And not saying things like "Look but don't touch! Smell but do not eat!"

Where in the OT did SATAN ever demand blind worship?

Alas, Nowhere.

I submit that the early church fathers--in following their power-hungry agendas. turned the tables on the True Story: and that is, that SATAN was Advocating for Us.

And He is our True and Most Misunderstood Friend.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions on this conjecture.

Thanks!


There is no evidence of any such thing.


Of course, not. At least not in the bible or the writings of the early church fathers. Why would they admit such a thing? They have their own agendas to formulate.

But you must know that over the past several decades there has been mountains of revisionist material written by various professional biblical scholars that have refuted many of the early claims and writings of the church. The bible itself is filled with enough errors and inconsistencies and contradictions to fill a library. (let me know if you need any links for that).

I might accept it if you had any evidence whatsoever. And the Bible is the most misinterpreted book. It's not in theological error

Are you claiming there are no written contradictions in the bible? No contrasting and self-cancelling statements or claims? Pleeeasse say "yes." LOL. Because I can show you enough to choke a hog.

None on the subject of faith and morals.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax