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Just supposing............

JJ50
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7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.
RoderickSpode
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7/1/2015 10:38:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.
I'd love to try and answer your question. But if I do, you might think I'm crazy (or one of the crazies). And I wouldn't want that.
dsjpk5
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7/1/2015 10:47:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Well, assuming your scenario wee true, I would be happy. I would be happy because I know God is just, so whatever decision He makes, I would take joy in knowing justice was done.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Impartial
Posts: 375
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7/1/2015 12:30:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Let me be the first person to provide a sincere answer to your question:

I'd be absolutely furious and beside myself. Life wouldn't be worth living. The thought of all the deceased atheists, homosexuals and people of other religions, burning in Hell for eternity, would be so devastatingly incomprehensible and surreal. If god is real, which it blatantly isn't, it's got an awful lot to answer for.... no wonder god is such a pathetic and timid recluse.
To believe is to know nothing.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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7/1/2015 3:51:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Well considering that we are all sinners deserving hell, and that heaven rejoices over one sinner that repents, I would be happy. I want no person to go to hell. Heck, I even remember as a child praying that evil people like Hitler and Judas would eventually go to heaven.
Vox_Veritas
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7/1/2015 3:56:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

The reason is that salvation is not brought about by morality, because by God's standards we'd all fail that test. Heaven cannot be earned by human beings.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
sword
Posts: 96
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7/1/2015 4:34:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario. : :

What is a 'born again' Christian?
MadCornishBiker
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7/2/2015 9:44:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 4:34:05 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario. : :

What is a 'born again' Christian?

Those we know as "Born again Christians" are simply followers of one of the many Apostate teachings that Satan has created to add to the confusion.

They teach many false things.
MadCornishBiker
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7/2/2015 9:51:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Jehovah did not create an unfair scenario at all, that only came about because Satan took it into his head to get greedy and demand worship for himself, obedience to himself.

Justice demands a fair trial, and that is what Satan has been getting for the last 6,000 years, whoever it is almost over, judgement has been pronounced and we are only waiting for the sentence to be carried out.

Like you, I have trouble getting my head around why so many would worship a God that they portray in such a bad light, however in my case it is because I know Jehovah well enough to know that they are slandering him, twisting and misusing his word, hiding anything which reveals the truth about him behind a web of lies.

Jehovah is a God truly worthy of our worship and trust, and everything he has done he has done for the love of those who trust in him, and for their protection.

However, some like to concentrate merely on what he has done, and ignore the why of it. They aren't interested in the truth, simply in excuses not to follow him, or his son.
bulproof
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7/2/2015 11:58:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 9:51:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Jehovah did not create an unfair scenario at all, that only came about because Satan took it into his head to get greedy and demand worship for himself, obedience to himself.

Justice demands a fair trial, and that is what Satan has been getting for the last 6,000 years, whoever it is almost over, judgement has been pronounced and we are only waiting for the sentence to be carried out.

Like you, I have trouble getting my head around why so many would worship a God that they portray in such a bad light, however in my case it is because I know Jehovah well enough to know that they are slandering him, twisting and misusing his word, hiding anything which reveals the truth about him behind a web of lies.

Jehovah is a God truly worthy of our worship and trust, and everything he has done he has done for the love of those who trust in him, and for their protection.

However, some like to concentrate merely on what he has done, and ignore the why of it. They aren't interested in the truth, simply in excuses not to follow him, or his son.

dumb, dumb, dumb and dumber, and dumber, and as dumb as they come.

Judas hung hisself.
No he didn't.
He fellow over and split his guts open.
The pharisees bought a plot of land with Judas' money.
No they didn't.
Judas bought a block of land.
No he didn't he threw the money into the temple.
And that's the GOD'S HONEST TRUTH.
COS THE BIBLE (the great book of the APOSTATES) SAYS SO.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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7/2/2015 12:03:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 9:44:53 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Those we know as "Born again Christians" are simply followers of one of the many Apostate teachings that Satan has created to add to the confusion.
You mean THE BIBLE!!
Because only the Apostates have existed since 100AD, according to you.
The BIBLE was produced about 300yrs after that.
You and the bible followers are by your definition the worshipers of the APOSTASY.
GOD KNOWS WHO YOU ARE.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
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7/2/2015 12:20:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 12:03:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:44:53 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Those we know as "Born again Christians" are simply followers of one of the many Apostate teachings that Satan has created to add to the confusion.
You mean THE BIBLE!!
Because only the Apostates have existed since 100AD, according to you.
The BIBLE was produced about 300yrs after that.
You and the bible followers are by your definition the worshipers of the APOSTASY.
GOD KNOWS WHO YOU ARE.

No, that's not entirely true because the ... ahem ... "scholars" at the BotchTower have fixed up the Bible now. Yep, they patched up all of the "incorrect" stuff in it, which to our shock amounted to the stuff which contradicted BotchTower teachings. So it would be more accurate to attribute production of the Bible to .... (drum roll) .... the Greek scholars and textual critics who produced the NWT.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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7/2/2015 12:21:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 12:03:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:44:53 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

.... and when I typed "fixed up" up there ^ ^ ^ ^ ^, I actually had a serious typo in it which DDO rejected. Thank goodness.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Philocat
Posts: 728
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7/2/2015 12:37:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I honestly don't know. But I have faith that God is just, and would organise it in such a way as it is fair.
annanicole
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7/2/2015 3:08:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

There is no such thing as a "deathbed conversion", at least not in the terms implied in your OP.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Serato
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7/2/2015 7:10:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

I always thought Hitler was a decent guy with high moral values. He restored social and economic equities to the people and provided decent accommodations for the Jews. Hitler was a real stand-up guy. I would not be surprised to one day find him sitting on a seat among the high councils of Heaven. Never trust the history recorded by the victors.
Double_R
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7/2/2015 7:26:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 3:51:06 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Well considering that we are all sinners deserving hell...

Do you have an ounce of rational justification for this statement?
FaustianJustice
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7/2/2015 7:28:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 9:51:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Jehovah did not create an unfair scenario at all, that only came about because Satan took it into his head to get greedy and demand worship for himself, obedience to himself.

Citation, please. Where in the Bible do you have Satan demanding worship?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
FaustianJustice
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7/2/2015 7:29:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 12:37:24 PM, Philocat wrote:
I honestly don't know. But I have faith that God is just, and would organise it in such a way as it is fair.

Sins of the fathers held against how many generations?

That is "just"?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
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7/2/2015 8:14:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 9:51:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Jehovah did not create an unfair scenario at all, that only came about because Satan took it into his head to get greedy and demand worship for himself, obedience to himself.

Justice demands a fair trial, and that is what Satan has been getting for the last 6,000 years, whoever it is almost over, judgement has been pronounced and we are only waiting for the sentence to be carried out.

Like you, I have trouble getting my head around why so many would worship a God that they portray in such a bad light, however in my case it is because I know Jehovah well enough to know that they are slandering him, twisting and misusing his word, hiding anything which reveals the truth about him behind a web of lies.

Jehovah is a God truly worthy of our worship and trust, and everything he has done he has done for the love of those who trust in him, and for their protection.

However, some like to concentrate merely on what he has done, and ignore the why of it. They aren't interested in the truth, simply in excuses not to follow him, or his son.

Why? Who cares? All they know is someone was denied the oportunity to enjoy doing what ever they wanted do. Why? Becuase an Evil God wasn't being worshipped. How selfish.

I'm with you brother. It's useless to expose the double standards and immaturity in such statements.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/2/2015 8:29:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?
I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

I certainly can't love that theology, JJ, but you can see how convenient it is for ambitious theocrats backing an expansionist regime to adopt this dogma. It means that every disparate culture your monarch conquers or colonises isn't being exploited, subjugated and oppressed, but being 'saved from themselves.'

Likewise, every time you strangle or burn a heretic, you're not crushing free thought, purging internal dissent, and propping up a corrupt regime, but 'purifying' them by forcing them to repent in life so they don't suffer the worse you invented after death.

And every time you persecute someone of different belief, disenfranchise them, confiscate their property and redistribute it among your cronies, you're not simply exploiting the vulnerable but 'protecting the national values'.

So it's not cynical tyranny at all -- it's kindness, right?
MadCornishBiker
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7/3/2015 5:48:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 7:29:23 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:37:24 PM, Philocat wrote:
I honestly don't know. But I have faith that God is just, and would organise it in such a way as it is fair.

Sins of the fathers held against how many generations?

That is "just"?

Justice has nothing to do with it, it is the inevitability of the vast majority of sons following the example set by the father's which is the point of that statement. History has proved it to be an accurate statement.

Yes God is just.

For all the sins that are passed down to them, those who have died ignorant that they were committing sins will get a second chance in the resurrection.

That is truly just, and will apply to all those with the slightest excuse for not having learned.

However ignoring what they were taught, like their parents did, or deliberate ignorance will not earn a resurrection and a second chance.

Not all followed their parents error, and those that didn't are pointed out in the bible and praised for choosing the right path rather than the one their parents were on.
MadCornishBiker
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7/3/2015 5:54:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 8:29:37 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?
I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

I certainly can't love that theology, JJ, but you can see how convenient it is for ambitious theocrats backing an expansionist regime to adopt this dogma. It means that every disparate culture your monarch conquers or colonises isn't being exploited, subjugated and oppressed, but being 'saved from themselves.'

Likewise, every time you strangle or burn a heretic, you're not crushing free thought, purging internal dissent, and propping up a corrupt regime, but 'purifying' them by forcing them to repent in life so they don't suffer the worse you invented after death.

And every time you persecute someone of different belief, disenfranchise them, confiscate their property and redistribute it among your cronies, you're not simply exploiting the vulnerable but 'protecting the national values'.

So it's not cynical tyranny at all -- it's kindness, right?

No human has the right to force anyone down any path, that is between them and Christ alone, since it is Christ who will pass final judgement on them.

Revelation 22:11
ASV(i) 11 He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still.

However Satan shows no such tolerance to any who go Jehovah's way rather than his, yet another proof that Allah is Satan in disguise.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
ASV(i) 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light.

Beware, follow Allah AKA Satan and you follow him into his doom.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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7/3/2015 5:57:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/3/2015 5:48:52 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/2/2015 7:29:23 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:37:24 PM, Philocat wrote:
I honestly don't know. But I have faith that God is just, and would organise it in such a way as it is fair.

Sins of the fathers held against how many generations?

That is "just"?

Justice has nothing to do with it, it is the inevitability of the vast majority of sons following the example set by the father's which is the point of that statement. History has proved it to be an accurate statement.

"vast majority" who don't, against the slim minority who can (there by being innocent) and still having the sins of the fathers held against them.

Yes God is just.

That is a very creative interpretation of "just" then. Typically, "Just" would infer that your own sins get held against you, not some one else.

For all the sins that are passed down to them, those who have died ignorant that they were committing sins will get a second chance in the resurrection.

Then there is no reason to hold passed down sins against them. Such a creation need not even be mentioned, were that the master plan, it would be a moot statement.

That is truly just, and will apply to all those with the slightest excuse for not having learned. However ignoring what they were taught, like their parents did, or deliberate ignorance will not earn a resurrection and a second chance. Not all followed their parents error, and those that didn't are pointed out in the bible and praised for choosing the right path rather than the one their parents were on.

Going contrary to having the inadequacies of the father past on.

You are literally speaking in contradictions, you stated a position for why passing along sin is just, then swapped positions by granting that each is judged according to their own.

Just would be the crimes of one being held against ONE. There is no passing on the sins of the father. Judgment would come to each in turn, and need not look to the father for it.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MadCornishBiker
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7/3/2015 6:00:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 7:28:27 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:51:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Jehovah did not create an unfair scenario at all, that only came about because Satan took it into his head to get greedy and demand worship for himself, obedience to himself.

Citation, please. Where in the Bible do you have Satan demanding worship?

Matthew 4:9
ASV(i) 9 and he said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Obedience to Satan is tantamount to worship of him, by placing his authority above that of Jehovah, therefore his calling Jehovah a liar and suggesting that Eve would be better off obeying him rather than Jehovah was a suggestion that she worship him.

Hence any refusal to worship Jehovah and follow his son is in effect an act of worship to Satan.

Matthew 12:30
30 Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

There are no neutrals in this "war" over supreme authority over the earth.

No problem, I am always willing to back up what I say from scripture, thanks for asking me to.
MadCornishBiker
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7/3/2015 6:03:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 12:37:24 PM, Philocat wrote:
I honestly don't know. But I have faith that God is just, and would organise it in such a way as it is fair.

He already has arranged things so that they will end up fair to all, and all will get what they deserve. Scripture describes exactly how, and even tells us how long the plan will take to mature, as well as why it is necessary to do it this way.

It is all in scripture, all you have to do is humble request Jehovah's spirit to help you see it, with an honest heart and faith that it is in his interests to answer you.

James 1:5-8
MadCornishBiker
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7/3/2015 6:05:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 7:10:06 PM, Serato wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

I always thought Hitler was a decent guy with high moral values. He restored social and economic equities to the people and provided decent accommodations for the Jews. Hitler was a real stand-up guy. I would not be surprised to one day find him sitting on a seat among the high councils of Heaven. Never trust the history recorded by the victors.

The biggest problem was that, despite lacking the wisdom to know how, he wanted to do it his way, and enforce it.

Only Jehovah's way will work.
JJ50
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7/3/2015 6:07:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 7:10:06 PM, Serato wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

I always thought Hitler was a decent guy with high moral values. He restored social and economic equities to the people and provided decent accommodations for the Jews. Hitler was a real stand-up guy. I would not be surprised to one day find him sitting on a seat among the high councils of Heaven. Never trust the history recorded by the victors.

You are a sicko!
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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7/3/2015 6:35:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Jehovah did not create an unfair scenario at all, that only came about because Satan took it into his head to get greedy and demand worship for himself, obedience to himself.

Citation, please. Where in the Bible do you have Satan demanding worship?

Matthew 4:9
ASV(i) 9 and he said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

That is not a demand, that is a bribe, not terribly unlike what God currently does.


Obedience to Satan is tantamount to worship of him, by placing his authority above that of Jehovah, therefore his calling Jehovah a liar and suggesting that Eve would be better off obeying him rather than Jehovah was a suggestion that she worship him.

Dodging the issue. I asked for your citation of where Satan demanded worship.

Hence any refusal to worship Jehovah and follow his son is in effect an act of worship to Satan.

Might I remind you: "Satan took it into his head to get greedy and demand worship for himself".

Matthew 12:30
30 Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

There are no neutrals in this "war" over supreme authority over the earth.

Not addressing the point. God made commandments for worship (a demand), thus far you have Satan bribing people for it with no apparent consequence.

No problem, I am always willing to back up what I say from scripture, thanks for asking me to.

If only you did.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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7/3/2015 6:55:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 3:08:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:42:57 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born again' Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

There is no such thing as a "deathbed conversion", at least not in the terms implied in your OP.

I suspect that what you really mean is that whilst deathbed conversions do happen, Christ does not take any notice of them. They a re too little, too late. We need not think we can do as we like right up to the end and then declare a change of heart.

Something that you agree with scripture about for a change. I guess even you can't get everything wrong.