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Is atheism wrong in the eyes of God?

sword
Posts: 96
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7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Did God purposely hide from his people?

King James Version: Ezekiel Chapter 39
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sword
Posts: 96
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7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sword
Posts: 96
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7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies. You must be one of them.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence of the reverse: God is wrong in the eyes of atheism. :)
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/2/2015 5:45:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies.

,,, and I just bet you do!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sword
Posts: 96
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7/2/2015 8:58:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence of the reverse: God is wrong in the eyes of atheism. :) : :

What evidence do you behold that God is wrong?
sword
Posts: 96
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7/2/2015 9:00:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 5:45:34 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies.

,,, and I just bet you do! : :

I understand that God hid himself from his people. I understand that prophets and saints wrote and spoke for him. I understand that God chose believers to listen to his saints.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/2/2015 9:21:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 9:00:23 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:45:34 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies.

,,, and I just bet you do! : :

I understand that God hid himself from his people. I understand that prophets and saints wrote and spoke for him. I understand that God chose believers to listen to his saints.

Sure ya do, Brad. Run along.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/2/2015 9:36:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 8:58:44 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence of the reverse: God is wrong in the eyes of atheism. :) : :

What evidence do you behold that God is wrong?

I think there are two different things going on, Sword:
1) The way the universe works; and
2) The stories people tell about what they think they know.

The universe doesn't actually need our stories. It works independently of what we think and how we feel about it all. So God is not related to 1); God is actually part of 2). And the only way we can connect 2) to 1) is with independent evidence -- that is, observations if viewed privately by a reasonable person of some other belief, would change what they think.

The Bible is not evidence in that respect, because it's a collection of works by people writing what they believe. So it's actually claims looking for independent evidence to support itself.

And independent evidence is lacking. In fact there's lots of evidence that the people writing those claims didn't really know very much, and got a lot of very basic ideas wrong, and that the people later compiling and editing those works got a lot wrong about who wrote them, and when.

It's hard to that any of these people would make such basic mistakes if they had strong metaphysical insight, so the entire tradition is built on authorities it's not entitled to. And the authors have also demonstrated a profound inability to explain or predict correctly, while the stuff they got right is stuff anyone can get right. So other than as flawed artistic works, the value of this literature is a bit of an intellectual sham.

So one can admire the courage of Biblical authors, and their passion; and feel sympathy for their frequent suffering, but one can also feel a bit sorry for them in their ignorance, and not really have to think about their wilder claims beyond that -- except to the extent that one enjoys Bronze Age and Iron Age literature.

That's the sense in which I meant atheists think 'God' is wrong. -- in the same way that historians think King Arthur is wrong. :)
sword
Posts: 96
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7/2/2015 10:03:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 9:36:11 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 8:58:44 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence of the reverse: God is wrong in the eyes of atheism. :) : :

What evidence do you behold that God is wrong?

I think there are two different things going on, Sword:
1) The way the universe works; and
2) The stories people tell about what they think they know.

The universe doesn't actually need our stories. It works independently of what we think and how we feel about it all. So God is not related to 1); God is actually part of 2). And the only way we can connect 2) to 1) is with independent evidence -- that is, observations if viewed privately by a reasonable person of some other belief, would change what they think.

The Bible is not evidence in that respect, because it's a collection of works by people writing what they believe. So it's actually claims looking for independent evidence to support itself.

And independent evidence is lacking. In fact there's lots of evidence that the people writing those claims didn't really know very much, and got a lot of very basic ideas wrong, and that the people later compiling and editing those works got a lot wrong about who wrote them, and when.

It's hard to that any of these people would make such basic mistakes if they had strong metaphysical insight, so the entire tradition is built on authorities it's not entitled to. And the authors have also demonstrated a profound inability to explain or predict correctly, while the stuff they got right is stuff anyone can get right. So other than as flawed artistic works, the value of this literature is a bit of an intellectual sham.

So one can admire the courage of Biblical authors, and their passion; and feel sympathy for their frequent suffering, but one can also feel a bit sorry for them in their ignorance, and not really have to think about their wilder claims beyond that -- except to the extent that one enjoys Bronze Age and Iron Age literature.

That's the sense in which I meant atheists think 'God' is wrong. -- in the same way that historians think King Arthur is wrong. :) : :

My experience with God is just as real as the experience a physicist has in his observations. The only difference is that no man can see God. We can only hear his voice and obey his commandments.

Physicists think they can see particles as they observe or measure them but now they're learning that they may be something totally different than what they once thought.

I'll put my trust in the God I speak for.
Serato
Posts: 743
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7/2/2015 10:21:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 9:21:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:00:23 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:45:34 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies.

,,, and I just bet you do! : :

I understand that God hid himself from his people. I understand that prophets and saints wrote and spoke for him. I understand that God chose believers to listen to his saints.

Sure ya do, Brad. Run along.

At some point you're going to need to take a break from this relentless crusade of yours against your fellow Christian comrades, and instead stab in the back the legions of Satanist standing left and right and center before they start shuffling you around like a freakin' weegie board, because then it might be too late.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/2/2015 10:21:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 10:21:04 PM, Serato wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:21:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:00:23 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:45:34 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies.

,,, and I just bet you do! : :

I understand that God hid himself from his people. I understand that prophets and saints wrote and spoke for him. I understand that God chose believers to listen to his saints.

Sure ya do, Brad. Run along.

At some point you're going to need to take a break from this relentless crusade of yours against your fellow Christian comrades

Name one against whom I "crusade".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/2/2015 10:31:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 10:03:57 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:36:11 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 8:58:44 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence of the reverse: God is wrong in the eyes of atheism. :) : :

What evidence do you behold that God is wrong?

I think there are two different things going on, Sword:
1) The way the universe works; and
2) The stories people tell about what they think they know.

The universe doesn't actually need our stories. It works independently of what we think and how we feel about it all. So God is not related to 1); God is actually part of 2). And the only way we can connect 2) to 1) is with independent evidence -- that is, observations if viewed privately by a reasonable person of some other belief, would change what they think.

The Bible is not evidence in that respect, because it's a collection of works by people writing what they believe. So it's actually claims looking for independent evidence to support itself.

And independent evidence is lacking. In fact there's lots of evidence that the people writing those claims didn't really know very much, and got a lot of very basic ideas wrong, and that the people later compiling and editing those works got a lot wrong about who wrote them, and when.

It's hard to that any of these people would make such basic mistakes if they had strong metaphysical insight, so the entire tradition is built on authorities it's not entitled to. And the authors have also demonstrated a profound inability to explain or predict correctly, while the stuff they got right is stuff anyone can get right. So other than as flawed artistic works, the value of this literature is a bit of an intellectual sham.

So one can admire the courage of Biblical authors, and their passion; and feel sympathy for their frequent suffering, but one can also feel a bit sorry for them in their ignorance, and not really have to think about their wilder claims beyond that -- except to the extent that one enjoys Bronze Age and Iron Age literature.

That's the sense in which I meant atheists think 'God' is wrong. -- in the same way that historians think King Arthur is wrong. :) : :

My experience with God is just as real as the experience a physicist has in his observations.

No, Sword, because anyone can observe the same thing a physicist observes. However if your experience includes something you feel are messages from a deity then that's something only you can observe.

So you're free to call it a god -- but it's a god of you, not of everyone. By contrast, gravity say, is the gravity of everyone -- because everyone experiences it the same way.

A physicist claims no authority over anyone by saying there's gravity: in natural science, shared observation is the only authority. Essentially, if someone floats away, the physicist has to say: okay, I was wrong that gravity is universal.

But directing others from a voice only one person alone can hear is claiming authority over them. And the measure of whether one should have that authority is not one's own confidence, belief or conviction, but one's accountability to others.

I think the great fraud in religion, Sword, is that theology claims authority over everything, yet never accepts accountability for anything.

That's awfully vain, frequently deceitful, sometimes deluded, and often evil -- in the sense of hurting or harming others in a deliberate or willfully negligent way.

And it's that claim -- calling a fantasy, hope or conjecture God and saying it rules everything -- which atheists find wrong.
Serato
Posts: 743
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7/2/2015 10:35:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 10:21:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:21:04 PM, Serato wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:21:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:00:23 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:45:34 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies.

,,, and I just bet you do! : :

I understand that God hid himself from his people. I understand that prophets and saints wrote and spoke for him. I understand that God chose believers to listen to his saints.

Sure ya do, Brad. Run along.

At some point you're going to need to take a break from this relentless crusade of yours against your fellow Christian comrades

Name one against whom I "crusade".

The prudent question would ask whether or not you've already crucified every last standing Christian. It's like that movie where there can only be one left standing, and each time you win the battle lightning strikes down on you, and you become more powerful. That's not very Jesus like.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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7/2/2015 10:50:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 10:35:08 PM, Serato wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:21:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:21:04 PM, Serato wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:21:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:00:23 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:45:34 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies.

,,, and I just bet you do! : :

I understand that God hid himself from his people. I understand that prophets and saints wrote and spoke for him. I understand that God chose believers to listen to his saints.

Sure ya do, Brad. Run along.

At some point you're going to need to take a break from this relentless crusade of yours against your fellow Christian comrades

Name one against whom I "crusade".

The prudent question would ask whether or not you've already crucified every last standing Christian. It's like that movie where there can only be one left standing, and each time you win the battle lightning strikes down on you, and you become more powerful. That's not very Jesus like.

Don't change the question to your own question. If you want to ask and answer your own questions, you'll have a decidedly one-sided conversation. I asked,

Name one against whom I "crusade".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sword
Posts: 96
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7/2/2015 11:55:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 10:31:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:03:57 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:36:11 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 8:58:44 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence of the reverse: God is wrong in the eyes of atheism. :) : :

What evidence do you behold that God is wrong?

I think there are two different things going on, Sword:
1) The way the universe works; and
2) The stories people tell about what they think they know.

The universe doesn't actually need our stories. It works independently of what we think and how we feel about it all. So God is not related to 1); God is actually part of 2). And the only way we can connect 2) to 1) is with independent evidence -- that is, observations if viewed privately by a reasonable person of some other belief, would change what they think.

The Bible is not evidence in that respect, because it's a collection of works by people writing what they believe. So it's actually claims looking for independent evidence to support itself.

And independent evidence is lacking. In fact there's lots of evidence that the people writing those claims didn't really know very much, and got a lot of very basic ideas wrong, and that the people later compiling and editing those works got a lot wrong about who wrote them, and when.

It's hard to that any of these people would make such basic mistakes if they had strong metaphysical insight, so the entire tradition is built on authorities it's not entitled to. And the authors have also demonstrated a profound inability to explain or predict correctly, while the stuff they got right is stuff anyone can get right. So other than as flawed artistic works, the value of this literature is a bit of an intellectual sham.

So one can admire the courage of Biblical authors, and their passion; and feel sympathy for their frequent suffering, but one can also feel a bit sorry for them in their ignorance, and not really have to think about their wilder claims beyond that -- except to the extent that one enjoys Bronze Age and Iron Age literature.

That's the sense in which I meant atheists think 'God' is wrong. -- in the same way that historians think King Arthur is wrong. :) : :

My experience with God is just as real as the experience a physicist has in his observations.

No, Sword, because anyone can observe the same thing a physicist observes. However if your experience includes something you feel are messages from a deity then that's something only you can observe.

So you're free to call it a god -- but it's a god of you, not of everyone. By contrast, gravity say, is the gravity of everyone -- because everyone experiences it the same way.

A physicist claims no authority over anyone by saying there's gravity: in natural science, shared observation is the only authority. Essentially, if someone floats away, the physicist has to say: okay, I was wrong that gravity is universal.

But directing others from a voice only one person alone can hear is claiming authority over them. And the measure of whether one should have that authority is not one's own confidence, belief or conviction, but one's accountability to others.

I think the great fraud in religion, Sword, is that theology claims authority over everything, yet never accepts accountability for anything.

That's awfully vain, frequently deceitful, sometimes deluded, and often evil -- in the sense of hurting or harming others in a deliberate or willfully negligent way.

And it's that claim -- calling a fantasy, hope or conjecture God and saying it rules everything -- which atheists find wrong. : :

I agree with you that God cannot be observed by anyone. God can only be heard by those he chose to use for his purpose.

God knows that physicists cannot contain particles and study them. They only have a theory about particles and how they act according to the observer or measurement.

Anyone who listens to a physicist and his theories can only BELIEVE the physicist in the same way a chosen believer of God BELIEVES in what His servant says to them from their experiences with God.

I have plenty of believers listening to my experiences with God and the future he revealed to me.

This means you have no evidence to share with me.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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7/3/2015 12:11:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

Why would you think anything that a human believes and lives happy with would offend a god?

I know the answer to your question is "no." However, I do not come from a Christian "paradise." I hope the answer is also "no" on their side, if not ... Atheists are all welcome in my paradise. That is ... if they want. All decisions are up to the observer.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/3/2015 1:07:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 11:55:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:31:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
I think the great fraud in religion, Sword, is that theology claims authority over everything, yet never accepts accountability for anything.

God knows that physicists cannot contain particles and study them. They only have a theory about particles and how they act according to the observer or measurement.

Anyone who listens to a physicist and his theories can only BELIEVE the physicist in the same way a chosen believer of God BELIEVES in what His servant says to them from their experiences with God.

That's untrue, Sword. For example, scientists often doubt and questions one another's claims and methods -- this is both expected and encouraged.

Anyone who distrusts a particular physicist can reproduce the data -- and will still produce the same conclusion. That's what objective, independent evidence means -- it stands by itself, regardless of who is looking.

However, when we ignore a self-proclaimed prophet there's nothing -- no data, no evidence -- nothing.

This means you have no evidence to share with me.

A key measure of accountability, Sword, is falsification: under what reasonable, independent evidence could I know that I was wrong? For example, if masses started to accelerate away from one another, with no other external force applied, that would mean either our theory of gravity had failed, or there was an additional force we knew nothing about.

Every scientific theory has criteria for falsification. Those conjectures which don't, never become theories. And what keeps them in place as working theories is that they can always be falsified by anyone, yet never are.

Yet what is the falsification for religion? Theologians and prophets never offer independent criteria for recognising when they are wrong; instead, they appeal to a quirk of human psychology called apophenia -- a universal human trait of seeing patterns in data that aren't really there.

And we can tell when a pattern isn't there because the pattern fails to predict anything significant and independently confirmable.

Theological prophecies are seldom specific enough to be falsified, or never come to pass within reasonable predicted times. Yet we can prime people's apophenia (or prime our own) to continue recognising patterns. And a fraudulent theological discipline called apologetics scrabbles to reassert authority when specific assertions and predictions fail.

So the key question here is: what evidence would you accept to falsify such beliefs?

If there's none, then there's no accountability. And claims of authority without accountability need never be entertained at all.
sword
Posts: 96
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7/3/2015 1:52:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/3/2015 12:11:21 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

Why would you think anything that a human believes and lives happy with would offend a god?

I know the answer to your question is "no." However, I do not come from a Christian "paradise." I hope the answer is also "no" on their side, if not ... Atheists are all welcome in my paradise. That is ... if they want. All decisions are up to the observer. : :

No man makes a decision that overrides the will of God. All His people include theists and atheists who don't know Him.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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7/3/2015 2:06:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/3/2015 1:52:56 AM, sword wrote:
At 7/3/2015 12:11:21 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

Why would you think anything that a human believes and lives happy with would offend a god?

I know the answer to your question is "no." However, I do not come from a Christian "paradise." I hope the answer is also "no" on their side, if not ... Atheists are all welcome in my paradise. That is ... if they want. All decisions are up to the observer. : :

No man makes a decision that overrides the will of God. All His people include theists and atheists who don't know Him.

Of course they don't bc they are god ... WE are all gods! (immortal intelligence 'source'). Like i said .. you are the observer ... you are your character. What you believe is real ... So is my anime world that has nothing to do with your heaven. I'm not trying to be mean ... You just have to accept there are different "gods." (Sources).
sword
Posts: 96
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7/3/2015 2:16:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/3/2015 1:07:33 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 11:55:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:31:40 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
I think the great fraud in religion, Sword, is that theology claims authority over everything, yet never accepts accountability for anything.

God knows that physicists cannot contain particles and study them. They only have a theory about particles and how they act according to the observer or measurement.

Anyone who listens to a physicist and his theories can only BELIEVE the physicist in the same way a chosen believer of God BELIEVES in what His servant says to them from their experiences with God.

That's untrue, Sword. For example, scientists often doubt and questions one another's claims and methods -- this is both expected and encouraged.

Anyone who distrusts a particular physicist can reproduce the data -- and will still produce the same conclusion. That's what objective, independent evidence means -- it stands by itself, regardless of who is looking.

There's nothing objective about the visible world we live in. It's all subjective based on one's observations. " "

However, when we ignore a self-proclaimed prophet there's nothing -- no data, no evidence -- nothing.

You forgot about all the chosen believers who listen to God's servants called saints. They know they are hearing the voice of the Lord when they hear the gospel being preached to them.

This means you have no evidence to share with me.

A key measure of accountability, Sword, is falsification: under what reasonable, independent evidence could I know that I was wrong? For example, if masses started to accelerate away from one another, with no other external force applied, that would mean either our theory of gravity had failed, or there was an additional force we knew nothing about.

Theories have to be BELIEVED by people who listen to the theorist just like people have to BELIEVE the gospel that a saint preaches.

Every scientific theory has criteria for falsification. Those conjectures which don't, never become theories. And what keeps them in place as working theories is that they can always be falsified by anyone, yet never are. I don't know why people think that scientists have all the answers. All you have to do is listen to individual scientists share their experiences to know that they don't all agree with each other.

Yet what is the falsification for religion? Theologians and prophets never offer independent criteria for recognising when they are wrong; instead, they appeal to a quirk of human psychology called apophenia -- a universal human trait of seeing patterns in data that aren't really there.

You're talking about false prophets and theologians who have never known God. They get their false interpretations by reading a book ( holy books ) that's filled with false information. I didn't get my information from reading those holy books.

And we can tell when a pattern isn't there because the pattern fails to predict anything significant and independently confirmable.

Scientists haven't been able to predict as well as God has.

Theological prophecies are seldom specific enough to be falsified, or never come to pass within reasonable predicted times. Yet we can prime people's apophenia (or prime our own) to continue recognising patterns. And a fraudulent theological discipline called apologetics scrabbles to reassert authority when specific assertions and predictions fail.

Theologians cannot predict anything. The prophecies were written by prophets, not theologians. Christians use the term apologetics because they have no clue who God is. They need terms like this to justify their lack of knowledge.

So the key question here is: what evidence would you accept to falsify such beliefs?

If there's none, then there's no accountability. And claims of authority without accountability need never be entertained at all. : :

If you believe that scientists are accountable for their claims, you have been totally deceived. I remember when scientists were saying that the universe was 300 million years old. Now they're saying it's 14 1/2 billion years old. Where's the accountability there?

In fact, no one has to be accountable in this world because they didn't create it.
sword
Posts: 96
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7/3/2015 2:17:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/3/2015 2:06:33 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/3/2015 1:52:56 AM, sword wrote:
At 7/3/2015 12:11:21 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

Why would you think anything that a human believes and lives happy with would offend a god?

I know the answer to your question is "no." However, I do not come from a Christian "paradise." I hope the answer is also "no" on their side, if not ... Atheists are all welcome in my paradise. That is ... if they want. All decisions are up to the observer. : :

No man makes a decision that overrides the will of God. All His people include theists and atheists who don't know Him.

Of course they don't bc they are god ... WE are all gods! (immortal intelligence 'source'). Like i said .. you are the observer ... you are your character. What you believe is real ... So is my anime world that has nothing to do with your heaven. I'm not trying to be mean ... You just have to accept there are different "gods." (Sources). : :

We all have different perspectives of what God created. That doesn't make us gods.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/3/2015 2:31:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

This is a claim that requires proof to be acknowledged. What evidence do you have that theologians have conspired anything at all? If its just your opinion, then please present it as such.. otherwise, proof please! =)

On the other hand, we have plenty of evidence of the reverse: God is wrong in the eyes of atheism. :)

Yes, I'm aware that I owe you a thread.. lol
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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7/3/2015 2:38:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/3/2015 2:31:17 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

This is a claim that requires proof to be acknowledged. What evidence do you have that theologians have conspired anything at all? If its just your opinion, then please present it as such.. otherwise, proof please! =)

Sorry, P7 -- my humour tends to the ironic, sometimes dipping into sarcasm. :) This paragraph was intended to convey the point that theologians are not conspiring to hide a wealth of compelling evidence, but rather claiming authority on false, banal or nonexistent evidence.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/3/2015 2:42:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/3/2015 2:38:16 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/3/2015 2:31:17 AM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:28:31 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

We can't know, Sword, because theologians all over the world have conspired to hide the overwhelming evidence they have for unshakable belief in an idealised, metaphysical agency utterly invested in humanity, yet nevertheless showing no independent historical evidence of having ever interacted with it.

This is a claim that requires proof to be acknowledged. What evidence do you have that theologians have conspired anything at all? If its just your opinion, then please present it as such.. otherwise, proof please! =)

Sorry, P7 -- my humour tends to the ironic, sometimes dipping into sarcasm. :) This paragraph was intended to convey the point that theologians are not conspiring to hide a wealth of compelling evidence, but rather claiming authority on false, banal or nonexistent evidence.

Lmao.. sigh, why is it always once I've submit a post that I re-read the OP I'm posting to and see I misread it!

Face -palm... lol
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
smelisox
Posts: 849
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7/3/2015 3:01:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
No one understands the bible. It's like looking at a static TV screen and saying "Oh, that's a nice episode of the X-Factor."
Serato
Posts: 743
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7/3/2015 7:55:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 10:50:07 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:35:08 PM, Serato wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:21:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 10:21:04 PM, Serato wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:21:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 9:00:23 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 5:45:34 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:26:16 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:22:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 4:07:43 PM, sword wrote:
At 7/2/2015 1:27:10 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

He hid His face from them because of their behavior. That should be easy enough.

He hid his face from everyone except his servants called prophets, saints and believers.

The passage doesn't say that, and to boot you sound dangerously like that schizophrenic lunatic Brad Holkesvig. : :

Most people who read the Bible do not understand the prophecies.

,,, and I just bet you do! : :

I understand that God hid himself from his people. I understand that prophets and saints wrote and spoke for him. I understand that God chose believers to listen to his saints.

Sure ya do, Brad. Run along.

At some point you're going to need to take a break from this relentless crusade of yours against your fellow Christian comrades

Name one against whom I "crusade".

The prudent question would ask whether or not you've already crucified every last standing Christian. It's like that movie where there can only be one left standing, and each time you win the battle lightning strikes down on you, and you become more powerful. That's not very Jesus like.

Don't change the question to your own question. If you want to ask and answer your own questions, you'll have a decidedly one-sided conversation. I asked,

Name one against whom I "crusade".

MadCornishBiker?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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7/3/2015 8:45:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 12:22:05 PM, sword wrote:
Did God purposely hide from his people?

Hi BoG! I hope you last a little longer, I've got 90-100 posts in the betting pool.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth