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Anti-Theism: Not Hateful or Extreme

GeoLaureate8
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8/16/2010 6:25:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Recently I have seen both Theists and Atheists call Anti-Theism a hateful doctrine and an extreme version of Atheism.

Both assertions are wrong.

An Anti-Theist is simply someone who is against the belief in God and against the existence of God (as in, doesn't want God to exist).

So what's hateful about a person who says, I don't want a God?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tvellalott
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8/16/2010 6:32:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:25:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Recently I have seen both Theists and Atheists call Anti-Theism a hateful doctrine and an extreme version of Atheism.

Both assertions are wrong.

An Anti-Theist is simply someone who is against the belief in God and against the existence of God (as in, doesn't want God to exist).

So what's hateful about a person who says, I don't want a God?

I told a few of the theists on this site that I hate their Gods. I honestly don't equate the God of the-good-teacher for example, to the God of other Christians who I have the upmost respect for (even though technically they are the same) and don't feel I am disrespecting them by saying it. They may feel different.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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GeoLaureate8
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8/16/2010 6:40:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:32:14 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I told a few of the theists on this site that I hate their Gods. I honestly don't equate the God of the-good-teacher for example, to the God of other Christians who I have the upmost respect for (even though technically they are the same)

They ARE the same. Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is the same God of the-good-teacher is the same as popculturepooka.

Why you would think Yahweh changes depending on who is representing him?

If Hitler (ad hitlerum, lol) was represented by a respectful person, would you respect Hitler?

and don't feel I am disrespecting them by saying it. They may feel different.

Well, if you hate the-good-teacher's God, you hate PCP's God.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
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8/16/2010 6:41:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:40:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

If Hitler (ad hitlerum, lol) was represented by a respectful person, would you respect Hitler?

Godwin's Law. :P

Sorry, had to.
InsertNameHere
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8/16/2010 6:52:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:51:18 PM, twsurber wrote:
Geo is correct.

Then what about the militant marxists who persecuted religious people because Marx said religion was bad? What would we call that? Militant Anti-theism?
vivalayeo
Posts: 142
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8/16/2010 6:57:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:32:14 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:25:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Recently I have seen both Theists and Atheists call Anti-Theism a hateful doctrine and an extreme version of Atheism.

Both assertions are wrong.

An Anti-Theist is simply someone who is against the belief in God and against the existence of God (as in, doesn't want God to exist).

So what's hateful about a person who says, I don't want a God?

I told a few of the theists on this site that I hate their Gods. I honestly don't equate the God of the-good-teacher for example, to the God of other Christians who I have the upmost respect for (even though technically they are the same) and don't feel I am disrespecting them by saying it. They may feel different.

You hate something that you don't believe exist's? I pretty sure Hitchen's was asked 'Why do you hate God?' and he responded 'I don't hate him, that's absurd, I don't believe he exist's'
twsurber
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8/16/2010 6:57:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Note the term "recently"

What Geo is saying is disagreement is not necessarily disrespect. People can disagree on topics without being mean about it to the other person(s).
GeoLaureate8
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8/16/2010 6:59:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:52:52 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Then what about the militant marxists who persecuted religious people because Marx said religion was bad? What would we call that? Militant Anti-theism?

Well, Anti-Theism is also the active opposition against Theism. However, the desire for religion to be eradicated isn't necessarily hateful because the person isn't requiring force or persecution to achieve it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lovelife
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8/16/2010 7:05:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:52:52 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:51:18 PM, twsurber wrote:
Geo is correct.

Then what about the militant marxists who persecuted religious people because Marx said religion was bad? What would we call that? Militant Anti-theism?

Lol thats called extremists. Extremists are bad no matter what religion/lack of religion they are exterming about.
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InsertNameHere
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8/16/2010 7:08:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 7:05:42 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:52:52 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:51:18 PM, twsurber wrote:
Geo is correct.

Then what about the militant marxists who persecuted religious people because Marx said religion was bad? What would we call that? Militant Anti-theism?

Lol thats called extremists. Extremists are bad no matter what religion/lack of religion they are exterming about.

I know, but apparently I was called out for incorrectly calling them atheist extremists.
popculturepooka
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8/16/2010 7:08:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:40:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

and don't feel I am disrespecting them by saying it. They may feel different.

Well, if you hate the-good-teacher's God, you hate PCP's God.

Eh. We have a different picture of who God is. I think it's a misrepresentation. He seems to be a pretty strong calvinist for instance....

It's like when people say I don't believe in a God who would do X where X = reeling off a long Dawkin's esque type of list of atrocities, etc. Well, yeah, neither do I.
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tvellalott
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8/16/2010 7:10:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:40:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:32:14 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I told a few of the theists on this site that I hate their Gods. I honestly don't equate the God of the-good-teacher for example, to the God of other Christians who I have the upmost respect for (even though technically they are the same)

They ARE the same. Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is the same God of the-good-teacher is the same as popculturepooka.
Why you would think Yahweh changes depending on who is representing him?
If Hitler (ad hitlerum, lol) was represented by a respectful person, would you respect Hitler?
This is a ridiculous argument. God can't be compared to Hitler in this context. There are historical facts about Hitler.
Yahweh changes depending on who is representing him because that is the nature of Christianity. Everyone has their 'true' beliefs but it always seems to be different. pcp and the-good-teacher represent their religions completely differently to the point where it is like a different religion and a different God.

and don't feel I am disrespecting them by saying it. They may feel different.

Well, if you hate the-good-teacher's God, you hate PCP's God.

No. Not at all. pcp's Yahweh and good-teachers Yahweh are different Yahwehs. pcp is always making me question my beliefs, yet the-good-teacher makes me want to punch 'God' in the face. Since I believe God to be a fictional character who differs subject to interpretion, I stand by what I originally said....

Until pcp comes and makes me feel stupid.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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GeoLaureate8
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8/16/2010 7:11:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 7:08:40 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Eh. We have a different picture of who God is. I think it's a misrepresentation. He seems to be a pretty strong calvinist for instance....

It's like when people say I don't believe in a God who would do X where X = reeling off a long Dawkin's esque type of list of atrocities, etc. Well, yeah, neither do I.

Ok, isn't it fair to say that both you and the-good-teacher believe in Yahweh's global hydro-genocide?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
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8/16/2010 7:12:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 7:10:57 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:40:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
They ARE the same. Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is the same God of the-good-teacher is the same as popculturepooka.
Why you would think Yahweh changes depending on who is representing him?
If Hitler (ad hitlerum, lol) was represented by a respectful person, would you respect Hitler?
This is a ridiculous argument. God can't be compared to Hitler in this context. There are historical facts about Hitler.
Yahweh changes depending on who is representing him because that is the nature of Christianity. Everyone has their 'true' beliefs but it always seems to be different. pcp and the-good-teacher represent their religions completely differently to the point where it is like a different religion and a different God.


and don't feel I am disrespecting them by saying it. They may feel different.

Well, if you hate the-good-teacher's God, you hate PCP's God.

No. Not at all. pcp's Yahweh and good-teachers Yahweh are different Yahwehs. pcp is always making me question my beliefs, yet the-good-teacher makes me want to punch 'God' in the face. Since I believe God to be a fictional character who differs subject to interpretion, I stand by what I originally said....

Until pcp comes and makes me feel stupid.

Good points.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lovelife
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8/16/2010 7:12:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 7:08:19 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/16/2010 7:05:42 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:52:52 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:51:18 PM, twsurber wrote:
Geo is correct.

Then what about the militant marxists who persecuted religious people because Marx said religion was bad? What would we call that? Militant Anti-theism?

Lol thats called extremists. Extremists are bad no matter what religion/lack of religion they are exterming about.

I know, but apparently I was called out for incorrectly calling them atheist extremists.

What would they be called?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
tvellalott
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8/16/2010 7:13:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:57:11 PM, vivalayeo wrote:
You hate something that you don't believe exist's? I pretty sure Hitchen's was asked 'Why do you hate God?' and he responded 'I don't hate him, that's absurd, I don't believe he exist's'

Indeed I do. You surely hate some fictional character or another don't you?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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the-good-teacher
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8/16/2010 7:39:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:25:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Recently I have seen both Theists and Atheists call Anti-Theism a hateful doctrine and an extreme version of Atheism.

Both assertions are wrong.

An Anti-Theist is simply someone who is against the belief in God and against the existence of God (as in, doesn't want God to exist).

So what's hateful about a person who says, I don't want a God?

-------------

What's hateful about a person who says, "I don't want a God" ?

I don't believe the statement in it's self is hateful,
I remember I regularly said much the same thing,
Usually when my religious mother was trying to show the errors of my ways, and I just wasn't up for anything she was saying unless of course the benefits were of immediate effect and in my favour,

however I remember in the years I felt that, they weren't really happy, I'm at pains now just thinking about them

I found I could easily hate loads of things, including my mother for having too many Kids when the jam ran out.

Anyway in the times when I made statements like that, I didn't really know how unhappy I was, hating came easy, sometimes it still does and I bring myself into check.

----------------------------o.O---^ 5---
annhasle
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8/16/2010 7:53:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:57:11 PM, vivalayeo wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:32:14 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:25:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

You hate something that you don't believe exist's? I pretty sure Hitchen's was asked 'Why do you hate God?' and he responded 'I don't hate him, that's absurd, I don't believe he exist's'

I hate the very idea of the God Yahweh, (most of) what he has said to have done and what he invokes through his teachings and actions. I take solace in that he is fictional.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
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8/16/2010 8:46:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:59:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:52:52 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Then what about the militant marxists who persecuted religious people because Marx said religion was bad? What would we call that? Militant Anti-theism?

Well, Anti-Theism is also the active opposition against Theism. However, the desire for religion to be eradicated isn't necessarily hateful because the person isn't requiring force or persecution to achieve it.

you could think of it like the christians do- you're trying to "save" them from under the yoke of a tyrant :D
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GeoLaureate8
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8/17/2010 2:38:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 7:12:19 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/16/2010 7:08:19 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I know, but apparently I was called out for incorrectly calling them atheist extremists.

What would they be called?

Um, not extremists?

There is nothing extreme about Anti-Theism nor can it be considered extreme Atheism.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lovelife
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8/17/2010 1:05:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/17/2010 2:38:09 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/16/2010 7:12:19 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 8/16/2010 7:08:19 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I know, but apparently I was called out for incorrectly calling them atheist extremists.

What would they be called?

Um, not extremists?

There is nothing extreme about Anti-Theism nor can it be considered extreme Atheism.

I mean like the extremists. Not the ones that just don't want anyone to worship any god. once something extreme happens like attack on religious people thats when they are extremists.
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GeoLaureate8
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8/20/2010 3:30:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Bump, because too many people still don't understand Anti-Theism.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/20/2010 3:34:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 6:25:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Recently I have seen both Theists and Atheists call Anti-Theism a hateful doctrine and an extreme version of Atheism.

Both assertions are wrong.

An Anti-Theist is simply someone who is against the belief in God and against the existence of God (as in, doesn't want God to exist).

So what's hateful about a person who says, I don't want a God?:

That's not what an anti-theist is. You just described an atheist. An anti-theist is someone who is opposed to theism.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Yvette
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8/20/2010 3:43:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 3:34:15 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 8/16/2010 6:25:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Recently I have seen both Theists and Atheists call Anti-Theism a hateful doctrine and an extreme version of Atheism.

Both assertions are wrong.

An Anti-Theist is simply someone who is against the belief in God and against the existence of God (as in, doesn't want God to exist).

So what's hateful about a person who says, I don't want a God?:

That's not what an anti-theist is. You just described an atheist. An anti-theist is someone who is opposed to theism.

...you're both wrong. Ugh.

An atheist doesn't believe in any gods.

An anti-theist opposes theism.

That's it.

An anti-theist doesn't necessarily want there to be no god. They just oppose belief in one (myself for example). An atheist doesn't necessarily have to be anti-theist.

By throwing around definitions and claims without thinking about them, you're both making it harder for the rest of us atheists. People are misinformed enough about what atheism and anti-theism are.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
GeoLaureate8
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8/20/2010 3:46:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 3:34:15 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
That's not what an anti-theist is. You just described an atheist. An anti-theist is someone who is opposed to theism.

"One opposed to belief in the existence of a god." (Oxford English Dictionary)

"opposition to God." (Chambers Dictionary)

And you are wrong about Atheism. Atheism is the disbelief in God, not opposition to God, nor opposition to belief in God.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
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8/20/2010 3:48:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 3:43:07 PM, Yvette wrote:
...you're both wrong. Ugh.

An atheist doesn't believe in any gods.

An anti-theist opposes theism.

That's it.

An anti-theist doesn't necessarily want there to be no god. They just oppose belief in one (myself for example). An atheist doesn't necessarily have to be anti-theist.

By throwing around definitions and claims without thinking about them, you're both making it harder for the rest of us atheists. People are misinformed enough about what atheism and anti-theism are.

"All three match Hitchens' usage, not only a generally anti-religious belief and disbelief in a deity, but also opposition to a god's existence[4]." -- http://en.wikipedia.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Yvette
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8/20/2010 3:52:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 3:48:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/20/2010 3:43:07 PM, Yvette wrote:
...you're both wrong. Ugh.

An atheist doesn't believe in any gods.

An anti-theist opposes theism.

That's it.

An anti-theist doesn't necessarily want there to be no god. They just oppose belief in one (myself for example). An atheist doesn't necessarily have to be anti-theist.

By throwing around definitions and claims without thinking about them, you're both making it harder for the rest of us atheists. People are misinformed enough about what atheism and anti-theism are.

"All three match Hitchens' usage, not only a generally anti-religious belief and disbelief in a deity, but also opposition to a god's existence[4]." -- http://en.wikipedia.org...

Read your own link. Hitchens isn't the god of atheism, just because he said it doesn't make it the definition. Your own source doesn't describe it as opposition to god. It even says that of the "some" who describe it that way, most are religious ones.

The Chambers Dictionary definition you listed just a bit ago says it's denial of the existence of god! Not exactly the most reliable there is it.

I'm guessing the only people who actually consider themselves "opposed to the existence of God" are the ones who define "God" as the Judeo-Christian one, and not just as gods in general.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
GeoLaureate8
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8/20/2010 3:57:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 3:52:09 PM, Yvette wrote:
At 8/20/2010 3:48:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"All three match Hitchens' usage, not only a generally anti-religious belief and disbelief in a deity, but also opposition to a god's existence[4]." -- http://en.wikipedia.org...

Read your own link. Hitchens isn't the god of atheism, just because he said it doesn't make it the definition.

It says that all three DICTIONARY definitions match Hitchens definition of Anti-Theism which include what was listed in that excerpt above.

Your own source doesn't describe it as opposition to god.

"opposition to God." (Chambers Dictionary)

The Chambers Dictionary definition you listed just a bit ago says it's denial of the existence of god! Not exactly the most reliable there is it.

No it didn't.

"opposition to God." (Chambers Dictionary)

I'm guessing the only people who actually consider themselves "opposed to the existence of God" are the ones who define "God" as the Judeo-Christian one, and not just as gods in general.

Nope. Christopher Hitchens and myself oppose any and all Gods, not just the Judeo-Christian one.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/20/2010 3:57:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/20/2010 3:46:40 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/20/2010 3:34:15 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
That's not what an anti-theist is. You just described an atheist. An anti-theist is someone who is opposed to theism.

"One opposed to belief in the existence of a god." (Oxford English Dictionary)

"opposition to God." (Chambers Dictionary):

That's what I just said! Opposed to theism. But now I'm curious. You're opposed to the belief in something you allege doesn't exist in the first place. That doesn't make any sense.

And you are wrong about Atheism. Atheism is the disbelief in God, not opposition to God, nor opposition to belief in God.:

As for atheism, no, there is strong atheism and weak atheism. You're obviously demonstrating strong atheism.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)